Encouraging tipping

[happyguy]

Maybe this has been discussed before...

I am a knight for several models and I get so frustrated when one user does all the tipping and brings (sometimes) hundreds of other users with tokens into the room and they just sit by and watch for free.

What (polite) words can I say in public chat to encourage the others?

Any suggestions gratefully received. Thank you

 

[Maxi]

I ban a lot of ultimate members for this, there's a difference when someone has offered you their time to taking it. Since PM is a tip menu option for me, first time they PM without tipping, verbal warning, 2nd pm without tipping written warning, 3rd pm with out tipping ban. I find it disrespectful when people think that they pay someone who isnt me that they get free access to something that I charge for. It actually annoys me that sites include the ability to PM as part of their subscription service because they are selling you something they dont own (the models attention).

Agreed. PM’s are usually a tip menu item and giving members the ability to PM just by purchasing an additional subscription, without any of that income going to the model, seems totally unfair to me.

 

[Natural9]

Agreed. PM’s are usually a tip menu item and giving members the ability to PM just by purchasing an additional subscription, without any of that income going to the model, seems totally unfair to me.

I think the sites see it more like "you are using OUR platform" to make money so we can give the users this ability.

 

[Maxi]

I think the sites see it more like "you are using OUR platform" to make money so we can give the users this ability.

The site can see it how it wants to - it doesn’t make it fair.

I don’t even have to pay for the privilege anymore because it comes free with my level. But, obviously I would as a tip menu item.

 

[KingMarti]

I think the sites see it more like "you are using OUR platform" to make money so we can give the users this ability.

I know what you're saying but I really dont like where that goes if you expand it out, like say sites want to increase subscriptions, with the "it's our platform" thinking they could be like "buy a premium subscription and get 20 minutes of pvt shows a month for free" where they then dont pay the models for those minutes in pvt. It's kind of like an extreme that is super unlikely to happen (because they would lose a lot of models I imagine), but both ways are really selling the same thing, the models time and attention.

 

[Natural9]

I know what you're saying but I really dont like where that goes if you expand it out, like say sites want to increase subscriptions, with the "it's our platform" thinking they could be like "buy a premium subscription and get 20 minutes of pvt shows a month for free" where they then dont pay the models for those minutes in pvt. It's kind of like an extreme that is super unlikely to happen (because they would lose a lot of models I imagine), but both ways are really selling the same thing, the models time and attention.

ON SC they kind of already do this with the "free 15 seconds" of spying. I have never had a model I sent a PM to tell me I need to tip for it even if it is on their menu. I am usually asking questions about private show or something on the tip menu.

 

[honeybee]

Except you do seem to think there is a differance, you seem to think that for some reason if you become a mod you should no longer be tipping in a room.



How can you give information on something where you dont understand the details of what is going on?

There is no reason for a model to have mods other than to encourage loyalty because of how many guys see it as a status symbol. When you say things like tipping is the users responsibility not the mods you take the trust that the model has given you and throw it in their face.

KingMarti, it seems like you don't understand my point that a single mod/knight also holds the role of a user. What I'm saying is not that a moderator doesn't need to tip. Before being a mod/knight, they are also a user, so they should tip just like every other user. However, when it comes to the role of mod/knight specifically, I'm saying that tipping is not their job.

 

[Maxi]

ON SC they kind of already do this with the "free 15 seconds" of spying. I have never had a model I sent a PM to tell me I need to tip for it even if it is on their menu. I am usually asking questions about private show or something on the tip menu.

We’ve all seen the “PM…?” in free chat followed the model saying “check my tip menu for PM.”

That’s what I was referring to…

 

[KingMarti]

I know what you're saying but I really dont like where that goes if you expand it out, like say sites want to increase subscriptions, with the "it's our platform" thinking they could be like "buy a premium subscription and get 20 minutes of pvt shows a month for free" where they then dont pay the models for those minutes in pvt. It's kind of like an extreme that is super unlikely to happen (because they would lose a lot of models I imagine), but both ways are really selling the same thing, the models time and attention.

Also just going to throw this out there, I dont blame members for wanting subscribing to the sites or wanting to get what the site the site advertised to them, as a member I wouldn't think to much about it, most members I assume dont know the inner workings of things and honestly there is no need for them too, most people wont think beyond "that's a nice perk".

On that note, subscribe to my fanclub and you can ask mcdonalds for free hamburgers

ON SC they kind of already do this with the "free 15 seconds" of spying.

I actually have less of an issue with this (as long as abuse has actually been thought of). Sometimes things happen so a grace period to make sure things are working as they should be (video is loading, sound is working etc) although just because the first 15 seconds were fine dosnt mean there isnt going to be an issue later so maybe it's not so helpful

I have never had a model I sent a PM to tell me I need to tip for it even if it is on their menu. I am usually asking questions about private show or something on the tip menu.

I think there are nuances with it. Like if the first pm is something like "do you do x in pvt" then I'll probably answer, but when it's like "mmmm my dick so hard" yeah im going to give you the tip for pm warnings. Generally its down to the intent in the message.

 

[Maxi]

I'm saying that tipping is not their job.

It’s every members job to tip

 

[KingMarti]

KingMarti, it seems like you don't understand my point that a single mod/knight also holds the role of a user. What I'm saying is not that a moderator doesn't need to tip. Before being a mod/knight, they are also a user, so they should tip just like every other user. However, when it comes to the role of mod/knight specifically, I'm saying that tipping is not their job.

None of it is their job, the only one in the room whos job it is, is the model

 

[honeybee]

None of it is their job, the only one in the room whos job it is, is the model

That might be the case in some rooms, sure. I'm not sure if that's the ideal setup, though.

 

[KingMarti]

That might be the case in some rooms, sure. I'm not sure if that's the ideal setup, though.

Being a mod is not a job, you are a customer not an employee (unless the mod is working in a studio then they are actually an employee of the studio).
Just because you have a loyalty perk dosnt make you an employee of the company.

 

[honeybee]

Being a mod is not a job, you are a customer not an employee (unless the mod is working in a studio then they are actually an employee of the studio).
Just because you have a loyalty perk dosnt make you an employee of the company.

Doesn’t this way of thinking risk leaving the model isolated? Just because they’re not employed and aren’t getting paid doesn’t mean they can’t feel motivated to help the model out of friendship, right? Of course, while still tipping.

 

[Maxi]

Doesn’t this way of thinking risk leaving the model isolated? Just because they’re not employed and aren’t getting paid doesn’t mean they can’t feel motivated to help the model out of friendship, right? Of course, while still tipping.

Isolated? Isn’t this way of thinking belittling to another human being? I’m sure the model is more than capable of policing their room and muting members.

Anyway, I’ll leave it to the professionals…

 

[honeybee]

Isolated? Isn’t this way of thinking belittling to another human being? I’m sure the model is more than capable of policing their room and muting members.

Anyway, I’ll leave it to the professionals…

While I understand your perspective, I don't mean to belittle anyone. The point I’m making is about the nature of volunteer support. A moderator or knight, even without being paid, may still feel a genuine desire to help, out of respect for the model or the community. It’s not about suggesting the model can't handle things on their own, but rather about having a supportive dynamic that can make the environment even better. As for 'leaving it to the professionals,' I agree that some models prefer to manage everything themselves, but I still think there’s value in having people who are motivated by passion, not just payment, to help enhance the experience.

 

[KingMarti]

Doesn’t this way of thinking risk leaving the model isolated?

Why would having a member as a mod vs having a member that is not a mod change this? But to answer the question, no not really.

Just because they’re not employed and aren’t getting paid doesn’t mean they can’t feel motivated to help the model out of friendship, right? Of course, while still tipping.

Again, being a mod is not a requirement for wanting to help a model out of a place of friendship all members are in an equal position to do that, the only help a model needs is with clearing goals, and if there's some odd tech issue (like the mic isnt working or something) letting them know so they can fix it. There is nothing a mod can do that a regualr member cant that can help a model during a stream.

 

[honeybee]

Why would having a member as a mod vs having a member that is not a mod change this? But to answer the question, no not really.

Again, being a mod is not a requirement for wanting to help a model out of a place of friendship all members are in an equal position to do that, the only help a model needs is with clearing goals, and if there's some odd tech issue (like the mic isnt working or something) letting them know so they can fix it. There is nothing a mod can do that a regualr member cant that can help a model during a stream.

What you're saying is that mods/users are essentially just users, and that users aren't doing any work, right? You're dividing people into those who receive rewards and those who give them. The structure you're presenting is model vs. user (including mods/knights). But the structure I'm presenting is that mods/knights are in between. They tip but don't receive rewards, and they exist because they want to help the model.

Needless to say, the requirement for a mod/knight is simply to be someone who can help the model feel comfortable. That requirement might include people who tip a lot, those who are friends, those with insider knowledge, or, as you mentioned, those who have technical knowledge. There are various factors. I understand that your choice of mods/knights is to help clear goals.

However, there is one clear mistake: I don’t know about CB, but in SC, there are things that only mods/knights can do to help the model during the stream. For example, mods/knights can mute users who are making inappropriate comments. This is a clear difference, and I’d like to point that out.

 

[misterical]

However, there is one clear mistake: I don’t know about CB, but in SC, there are things that only mods/knights can do to help the model during the stream. For example, mods/knights can mute users who are making inappropriate comments. This is a clear difference, and I’d like to point that out.

The model can do this herself.

They tip but don't receive rewards, and they exist because they want to help the model.

They don't always. Sometimes they exist because the model wants to reward them with status rather than actually have them perform moderator tasks. This keeps guys in a room and tipping (see how they have to tip for it to be worthwhile). Some guys do it to be manipulative and lord it over other members. There is a whole range of reasons. The best moderators are the ones who keep out of the way and only help in an emergency situation (e.g. the model misses a banworthy message in chat etc). Otherwise, keep the fuck out of the way. Don't be thanking tippers etc etc. And certainly don't be cluttering the place up with GIFs.

Needless to say, the requirement for a mod/knight is simply to be someone who can help the model feel comfortable.

I'd say to most models, their moderator is not someone they are familiar with. Just words on a screen guy. Once a model made me a moderator (unsolicited) because I said something funny in chat. How could she possibly know me enough to be comfortable? I'd been in the room 2 minutes.

 

[Maxi]

What you're saying is that mods/users are essentially just users, and that users aren't doing any work, right? You're dividing people into those who receive rewards and those who give them. The structure you're presenting is model vs. user (including mods/knights). But the structure I'm presenting is that mods/knights are in between. They tip but don't receive rewards, and they exist because they want to help the model.

Needless to say, the requirement for a mod/knight is simply to be someone who can help the model feel comfortable. That requirement might include people who tip a lot, those who are friends, those with insider knowledge, or, as you mentioned, those who have technical knowledge. There are various factors. I understand that your choice of mods/knights is to help clear goals.

However, there is one clear mistake: I don’t know about CB, but in SC, there are things that only mods/knights can do to help the model during the stream. For example, mods/knights can mute users who are making inappropriate comments. This is a clear difference, and I’d like to point that out.

All a knight can do is mute other non-knight members. And we get a fancy badge icon. That’s it nothing more.

 

[Maxi]

I can’t believe I’m at my age and discussing ‘knights’ and ‘fancy badges’.

 

[KingMarti]

What you're saying is that mods/users are essentially just users, and that users aren't doing any work, right? You're dividing people into those who receive rewards and those who give them. The structure you're presenting is model vs. user (including mods/knights). But the structure I'm presenting is that mods/knights are in between.

No they are not, Mods are users, they are not any better than any other user in the room.

They tip but don't receive rewards, and they exist because they want to help the model.

This is not something that is exclusive to mods, there are many members that tip just because.

Needless to say, the requirement for a mod/knight is simply to be someone who can help the model feel comfortable. That requirement might include people who tip a lot, those who are friends, those with insider knowledge, or, as you mentioned, those who have technical knowledge. There are various factors. I understand that your choice of mods/knights is to help clear goals.

Mods in no way help to clear goals more than any other user in the room.

However, there is one clear mistake: I don’t know about CB, but in SC, there are things that only mods/knights can do to help the model during the stream. For example, mods/knights can mute users who are making inappropriate comments. This is a clear difference, and I’d like to point that out.

Muting members is not helpful to the model, it can actually be harmful. If a member is problematic the model needs to know, so it can be correctly dealt with (some messages require being reported) not have it hidden away out of sight. This is one of the reasons why I would say a mod should PM a model.

Here is an example of why muting is not helpful. Member comes in the room while the model is busy "I'm 15". Mod mutes the member and the messages get removed. Now the model is unaware that she needs to report and ban that user or risk having their account banned.

*It's been a very long time since I had mods or knights, so not 100% sure the messages are still removed from chat, if they arnt, it's still not helpful as the model should be the one deciding who can and cant chat.

Having the ability to do it is a difference between the accounts but it is in no way helpful to the model. It is also a function that has a lot of room to be abused. Mods in general tend to be the most invested in para-social relationships with models, when they feel a user that is tipping heavy gets too much attention and they are getting enough, having that member being able to mute that user is problematic.

The only thing a mod can do to help with the stream are the things I mentioned. Tipping and letting the model know about any technical issues that they dont seem to notice because more often than not we dont have our room open through the site in the same way the member does, so there are issues that the model dosnt see.

 

[honeybee]

The model can do this herself.

They don't always. Sometimes they exist because the model wants to reward them with status rather than actually have them perform moderator tasks. This keeps guys in a room and tipping (see how they have to tip for it to be worthwhile). Some guys do it to be manipulative and lord it over other members. There is a whole range of reasons. The best moderators are the ones who keep out of the way and only help in an emergency situation (e.g. the model misses a banworthy message in chat etc). Otherwise, keep the fuck out of the way. Don't be thanking tippers etc etc. And certainly don't be cluttering the place up with GIFs.

I'd say to most models, their moderator is not someone they are familiar with. Just words on a screen guy. Once a model made me a moderator (unsolicited) because I said something funny in chat. How could she possibly know me enough to be comfortable? I'd been in the room 2 minutes.

Of course, the model can do it themselves, if there's nothing to do during the stream. Popular models are busy working through tip menus that come in one after another, so they’re not exactly free. It depends on the model, though.

And you're right, some models use mods/knights as a way to give status. I'm not denying that at all. I understand that such mods/knights may not always be helpful. I completely agree with that. But what I'm saying is that the successful examples are not like that. Does citing bad examples move us forward?

I also understand that you became a moderator, and I get that the reason wasn’t that significant. However, I’d argue that this is also not a good example of how things work.

 

[honeybee]

No they are not, Mods are users, they are not any better than any other user in the room.

This is not something that is exclusive to mods, there are many members that tip just because.

Mods in no way help to clear goals more than any other user in the room.

Muting members is not helpful to the model, it can actually be harmful. If a member is problematic the model needs to know, so it can be correctly dealt with (some messages require being reported) not have it hidden away out of sight. This is one of the reasons why I would say a mod should PM a model.

Here is an example of why muting is not helpful. Member comes in the room while the model is busy "I'm 15". Mod mutes the member and the messages get removed. Now the model is unaware that she needs to report and ban that user or risk having their account banned.

*It's been a very long time since I had mods or knights, so not 100% sure the messages are still removed from chat, if they arnt, it's still not helpful as the model should be the one deciding who can and cant chat.

Having the ability to do it is a difference between the accounts but it is in no way helpful to the model. It is also a function that has a lot of room to be abused. Mods in general tend to be the most invested in para-social relationships with models, when they feel a user that is tipping heavy gets too much attention and they are getting enough, having that member being able to mute that user is problematic.

The only thing a mod can do to help with the stream are the things I mentioned. Tipping and letting the model know about any technical issues that they dont seem to notice because more often than not we dont have our room open through the site in the same way the member does, so there are issues that the model dosnt see.

What you're saying is that the model and mods/knights, as well as the people in the room, decide the value of whether mods/knights are special or not. Otherwise, as the people who pointed it out have said, it’s just a status symbol. If you’ve only seen mods/knights that aren’t useful, it’s understandable to feel that way, but that would be a failure example.

There are certainly members who tip as well. Did I deny that?

There are also mods/knights who might abuse the mute function. That can happen if the model makes a poor selection.

 

[misterical]

Of course, the model can do it themselves, if there's nothing to do during the stream. Popular models are busy working through tip menus that come in one after another, so they’re not exactly free. It depends on the model, though.

And you're right, some models use mods/knights as a way to give status. I'm not denying that at all. I understand that such mods/knights may not always be helpful. I completely agree with that. But what I'm saying is that the successful examples are not like that. Does citing bad examples move us forward?

I also understand that you became a moderator, and I get that the reason wasn’t that significant. However, I’d argue that this is also not a good example of how things work.

Can we just cut to the chase here. You're a moderator for a model, right? You help her out of the goodness of your heart. She trusts you with her life. You're an all round good guy. Your username is probably Niceguyhoneybee on the site, right? Yadayadayada.

 

[KingMarti]

What you're saying is that the model and mods/knights, as well as the people in the room, decide the value of whether mods/knights are special or not.

No, what I am saying is mods and knights are not special, and mods thinking they are special causes a lot of issues in rooms.

If you’ve only seen mods/knights that aren’t useful, it’s understandable to feel that way, but that would be a failure example.

This isnt only seeing, I have been a cam model for a decade, it's lived experience, that has also been confirmed by other models that have a lot of years in the job, come to think of it I cant think of a single model that has ever said that having a mod(s) helps them in anyway, but I can think of countless times when the subject of mods has come up and the result has been negative.

 

[honeybee]

Can we just cut to the chase here. You're a moderator for a model, right? You help her out of the goodness of your heart. She trusts you with her life. You're an all round good guy. Your username is probably Niceguyhoneybee on the site, right? Yadayadayada.

The world is a vast place. I can't match your rich imagination.

 

[Smoothie]

Mods in general tend to be the most invested in para-social relationships with models, when they feel a user that is tipping heavy gets too much attention and they are getting enough, having that member being able to mute that user is problematic.

The part that I’ve bolded, IMO, is the part of the equation that @honeybee is sort of tip-toeing around. The focus has been on practical reasons a mod/knight is not the same as a “normal member,” but I noticed the “helping my friend” bit continues to slide into the explanation.

I’d wager that the psychological need to feel like you’re saving the day for your favorite model is at the heart of your insistence that a mod/knight is just a little more special that everyone else.

Models are professionals. Don’t underestimate that fact. Chances are, she spotted you as a member with a high likelihood for being loyal to her room based on your behavior, and knighting you was a business move to reinforce that loyalty. Now, you are obligated to “help your friend,” right?

(I know that sounds pretty cynical, but life be that way sometimes.)

 

[Maxi]

The part that I’ve bolded, IMO, is the part of the equation that @honeybee is sort of tip-toeing around. The focus has been on practical reasons a mod/knight is not the same as a “normal member,” but I noticed the “helping my friend” bit continues to slide into the explanation.

I’d wager that the psychological need to feel like you’re saving the day for your favorite model is at the heart of your insistence that a mod/knight is just a little more special that everyone else.

Models are professionals. Don’t underestimate that fact. Chances are, she spotted you as a member with a high likelihood for being loyal to her room based on your behavior, and knighting you was a business move to reinforce that loyalty. Now, you are obligated to “help your friend,” right?

(I know that sounds pretty cynical, but life be that way sometimes.)

This

 

[honeybee]

No, what I am saying is mods and knights are not special, and mods thinking they are special causes a lot of issues in rooms.

This isnt only seeing, I have been a cam model for a decade, it's lived experience, that has also been confirmed by other models that have a lot of years in the job, come to think of it I cant think of a single model that has ever said that having a mod(s) helps them in anyway, but I can think of countless times when the subject of mods has come up and the result has been negative.

There’s no point in talking about mods/knights that cause many problems, is there? Mods/knights who aren’t humble tend to think of themselves as special, and that’s why they cause problems. That’s exactly an example of someone unqualified. Talking about losers doesn’t serve any purpose.
It’s unfortunate that, despite your extensive experience, you haven’t seen any success stories. Models are busy and don’t have the chance to check other rooms often. In fact, users are the ones who visit other rooms more frequently and see both success and failure examples. I may not have been watching for as many years as you, but I do know a few success stories, and I feel lucky to have seen them.

 

[misterical]

The part that I’ve bolded, IMO, is the part of the equation that @honeybee is sort of tip-toeing around. The focus has been on practical reasons a mod/knight is not the same as a “normal member,” but I noticed the “helping my friend” bit continues to slide into the explanation.

I’d wager that the psychological need to feel like you’re saving the day for your favorite model is at the heart of your insistence that a mod/knight is just a little more special that everyone else.

Models are professionals. Don’t underestimate that fact. Chances are, she spotted you as a member with a high likelihood for being loyal to her room based on your behavior, and knighting you was a business move to reinforce that loyalty. Now, you are obligated to “help your friend,” right?

(I know that sounds pretty cynical, but life be that way sometimes.)

Exactly what I was alluding to. He's here to convince us that he's the good guy saviour. He's just been taking fucking ages to get to the point.