Game of Thrones

[SoniaSilk]

I also agree with LillyEvans and mynameisbob.

I haven't read the books, but my roomie has, and as I don't care about spoilers we talk a lot about both the tv show and the written story. So this is my understanding of Sans'a polemic scene.

I might have spoilers on the entire tv show and all books, so be aware.

Spoiler

I don't think the rape scene was there just for the sake of the spectacle. As Lilly said, Jayne Poole is the one who gets married to Ramsay. Theon, who also grew up with Jayne, is forced by Ramsay to stimulate her clitoris, which for me is WAY more dark-an-twisted than the tv show scene. If they were aiming for the free shock of it, they would surely include this sadistic detail.

Also, there is something the feminist film critic call "positive images". It was one of the first propositions on how to evaluate if the movies endorsed or not the patriarchal culture. This proposition stated that movies (and I extend it to audiovisual languages in general) HAD TO show women freeing themselves or building strong relationships with other women and so on. Only "positive images" would be allowed. Soon enough, other feminist critics responded saying that 1) is not only the plot/the action (in this case, the rape) that defines if the movie endorses patriarchal culture or not; 2) movies should not show ONLY the world we want to live in, but also the world we actually live in (this choice must be the author's only) and, finally, 3) women spectators do not need to be overprotected and if you do so, you might be patronizing them.

I haven't watched the scene again (and when I watched it for the first time I was so overwhelmed that my critic self wasn't at all awaken) to actually analyze whose point of view is the main one (most people said it should be Sansa's, not Theon's), but I think (not at all sure), they use Theon's point of view as an intermediate to the spectator's point of view, regarding Sansa's gaze. So in the end, we don't have Theon's reference anymore and it's only "us" watching, as if we were him. (But these are technicalities I will no longer bother you with.)

And.... well, if you want a TV show that privileges women character's point of view every single time it's possible, you should be watching American Horror Story Coven, not Game of Thrones.

(But I do love the women in GoT and I also surely think we should have more options on tv shows that focus on female characters points of view)

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Episode titles for the last two episodes have been announced.

Spoiler

9-The Dance of Dragons
10-Winter

 

[Always_Tim]

Oh, so winter is coming!

 

[Crumb]

out of curiousity, since i haven't been watching this season

has Sam left for Oldtown yet, or is there talk in the show that he's going to be?

 

[MFCGod]

is there talk in the show that he's going to be?

Potential spoiler isn't that?

Spoiler

No, Sam hasn't left, no talk of if yet.

Sam and Gilly are having problems with other black brothers though so he might decide to leave to protect her, whether it will be to become a maester though no idea

 

[JerryBoBerry]

is there talk in the show that he's going to be?

Potential spoiler isn't that?

I always get amused when people mention 'spoilers' for something that's been out for years.

 

[Crumb]

is there talk in the show that he's going to be?

Potential spoiler isn't that?

Spoiler

No, Sam hasn't left, no talk of if yet.

Sam and Gilly are having problems with other black brothers though so he might decide to leave to protect her, whether it will be to become a maester though no idea

I didn't exactly say how, or why, or who with
and with the deviation from the books, who knows if it'd actually happen in the show

 

[MFCGod]

I always get amused when people mention 'spoilers' for something that's been out for years.

It amuses me when people are amused when people mention 'spoilers' for something that's been out for years.

So we're all happy

 

[eyeteach]

As bad as I thought last week's episode was I have to say last night's ending was totally "HOLY SHIT!" :shock: worthy.

 

[EdgarAllenWhoa]

Last nights episode was really well done.

Seemed like this season was a complete wash out, but last night REALLY picked things up.

:evil:

 

[MFCGod]

Last nights episode was really well done.

Seemed like this season was a complete wash out, but last night REALLY picked things up.

:evil:

Yes it was great but scary :crybaby: lol

Spoiler

I love Tyrian interacting with Daenerys

I love that Sansa has found out Bran and Rickon are still alive

I was scared for Jon and it's lucky they can't seemingly swim uh lol

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Does anyone else have questions like...

Spoiler

Can the giant swim?
How is he going to get in a ship without it tipping over?
Will there be room for him be sitting on a ship for that long?
Did they provision 3 cows a day food requirement it's going to take for him to eat?

 

[MFCGod]

Oh yeah I forgot to say part of the show I thought was silly

When she says to the little girls "I will be with you in a minute" you know some shit is about to go down.. bit too obvious

 

[mynameisbob84]

Fucking hell. Easily the best episode of what's been a relatively lacklustre season so far. And it's usually episode 9 where the crazy shit happens so fuck knows what they're holding back for next week.

 

[HotAndScottish]

is there talk in the show that he's going to be?

Potential spoiler isn't that?

Spoiler

No, Sam hasn't left, no talk of if yet.

Sam and Gilly are having problems with other black brothers though so he might decide to leave to protect her, whether it will be to become a maester though no idea

Spoiler

They're casting what I suspect is Sams family for next year, so I think he'll go to Oldtown and he'll see them. Before the Iron Born appear. If they appear in the TV series.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Need to know more about that giant and glad to see Theon finally do something kinda good. Last two episodes should be wild.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Love his reviews.

This is the latest episode, so spoilers and all that.

 

[ACFFAN69]

Need to know more about that giant and glad to see Theon finally do something kinda good. Last two episodes should be wild.

Non-spoilers:
The offhandedly mentioned his name in the episode "Wun Wun".
His full name is "Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun". He's at least fourteen feet tall, even larger than Mag the Mighty (the giant that died in s04e09 to the night's watch), and possesses the strength of twelve men. He's also a vegetarian.

His name is actually based off "Phil Simms", a legendary football player of the New York Giants, whose number was 11.

Probable spoiler from the book (it's really hard to tell nowadays though):

Spoiler

In the books he kills "Ser Patrek of King's Mountain" "with his blood flowing over his sigil, a blue star on silver", which is a reference to the New York Giants beating the Dallas Cowboys.

Martin and St. Denis had a wager for several years straight over who would win the American football season. Martin won the first two bets and made St. Denis read books of his choice. For the third season, Martin lost and agreed to feature St. Denis in one of his novels. "Ser Patrek of King's Mountain" is based on Patrick St. Denis (a guy who runs a football blog), and and him being included was part of a bet he won against GRRM. King's Mountain refers to St-Denis's home city of Montreal (Quebec, Canada), which would translate from old French/Spanish as "Royal Mountain"

Another football reference is when "Triarch Belicho of Volantis" being undefeated until he was torn limb from limb by giants. A reference to Bill Belichick, coach of the New England Patriots, who was undefeated in 2007 until finally losting to the New York Giants.

You can guess who GRRM's favourite team is.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I haven't read the books. So I don't know if this is even mentioned in them yet. But after this latest episode I'm starting to think Khaleesi is going to be the only hope and she's going to end up having to save everyone. This has been bantered around forums this week and makes obvious sense.

(Not really spoilers, but more of a thought for what is probably coming.)

Spoiler

White walkers don't like dragon glass (obsidian) and dragon steel (valyrian steel). So I'm betting dragon fire won't be too pleasant for them.

 

[ACFFAN69]

I haven't read the books. So I don't know if this is even mentioned in them yet. But after this latest episode I'm starting to think Khaleesi is going to be the only hope and she's going to end up having to save everyone. This has been bantered around forums this week and makes obvious sense.

(Not really spoilers, but more of a thought for what is probably coming.)

Spoiler

White walkers don't like dragon glass (obsidian) and dragon steel (valyrian steel). So I'm betting dragon fire won't be too pleasant for them.

I actually think it's going to be the opposite, and she's going to be as much of a threat to Westeros as the White Walkers. It's a song of Fire and Ice. Opposites but both deadly. I agree right now she seems to be a good ruler/person, but we all know how much GRRM likes to overturn the whole "good guy" and "bad guy" trope and switches it up constantly. There is some evidence of a heel-turn if you watch closely, for example:

Spoiler from 3 episodes ago:

Spoiler

She straight up burned some one alive because he *might* be involved with the Sons of the Harpies. No evidence provided, just straight up mad king'ed him without remorse. From the Harpies perspective this couldn't have been any different then when the Mad King burnt the Starks alive.

Book information about Roberts Rebellion to provide perspective, not at all spoilers (it's stuff that happened before the show, but I can see why some wouldn't want to read it):

Spoiler

People believe that the Mad King was insane and Varys was making him paranoid and telling him lies, but everything thus far points to Varys being a Targaryen supporter, plus there is ample reason to believe that someone was allying the entire Kingdom sans Targaryens through inter-marriage:

Heir of the:
Baratheons married to the Starks - Robert Baratheon and Lyanna Stark (marriage foiled by Prince Rhaegar, starting Roberts Rebellion))
Starks married to the Tullies - Brandon Stark and Catelyn Tully (marriage foiled by Mad King burning Rickard, starting Roberts Rebellion)
(tullies had no male heir)
Lannisters married to Tullies - Jaime Lannister and Lysa Tully (marriage foiled by mad king making Jaime a Kingsguard, infuriating Tywin)
Martells married to the Lannisters - Oberyn Martel and Cersei Lannister (marriage foiled by mad king)
Hightowers married to Martell - Baelor married to Elia
Tyrell married to the Hightower- Mace Tyrell and Alerie Hightower

The only family missing is the Arryns of the vale and the Ironborn, Jon Arryn fostered Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark, both of whom saw him as a father. Jon Arryn was one of the biggest supporters in Roberts Rebellion, showing they were allies. The book specifically says that inter-marriages between the great families was extremely rare (usually marriages were done to cement vassal alliances). If all these marriages went through, all of Westeros would have been allied, and it would have just taken one spark to overthrow the Targaryens. Even without all of them going through, Roberts Rebellion still occurred.

 

[Shaun__]

I haven't read the books. So I don't know if this is even mentioned in them yet. But after this latest episode I'm starting to think Khaleesi is going to be the only hope and she's going to end up having to save everyone. This has been bantered around forums this week and makes obvious sense.

(Not really spoilers, but more of a thought for what is probably coming.)

Spoiler

White walkers don't like dragon glass (obsidian) and dragon steel (valyrian steel). So I'm betting dragon fire won't be too pleasant for them.

You do not think the fire worshiping followers of the Red God would be a possible counter to creatures of ice also?

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I haven't read the books. So I don't know if this is even mentioned in them yet. But after this latest episode I'm starting to think Khaleesi is going to be the only hope and she's going to end up having to save everyone. This has been bantered around forums this week and makes obvious sense.

(Not really spoilers, but more of a thought for what is probably coming.)

Spoiler

White walkers don't like dragon glass (obsidian) and dragon steel (valyrian steel). So I'm betting dragon fire won't be too pleasant for them.

You do not think the fire worshiping followers of the Red God would be a possible counter to creatures of ice also?

No. They've showed the fire walker not caring about the building being on fire this last episode. And if you look the fire actually dampened down as he walked past. So fire itself isn't a problem for them. The fire worshipers just start normal man made fire. I don't think that will do anything. It's the other common theme I think is their weakness. Seems anything made from it kills them. So the source itself should probably do the trick as well.

 

[Shaun__]

I haven't read the books. So I don't know if this is even mentioned in them yet. But after this latest episode I'm starting to think Khaleesi is going to be the only hope and she's going to end up having to save everyone. This has been bantered around forums this week and makes obvious sense.

(Not really spoilers, but more of a thought for what is probably coming.)

Spoiler

White walkers don't like dragon glass (obsidian) and dragon steel (valyrian steel). So I'm betting dragon fire won't be too pleasant for them.

You do not think the fire worshiping followers of the Red God would be a possible counter to creatures of ice also?

No. They've showed the fire walker not caring about the building being on fire this last episode. And if you look the fire actually dampened down as he walked past. So fire itself isn't a problem for them. The fire worshipers just start normal man made fire. I don't think that will do anything. It's the other common theme I think is their weakness. Seems anything made from it kills them. So the source itself should probably do the trick as well.

They are shown in the show to have abilities that can be classified as magical or supernatural. They are not just walking around with a book of matches.

Spoiler

The last book released makes this even more noticeable.

 

[MFCGod]

No. They've showed the fire walker not caring about the building being on fire this last episode.

I'm pretty sure I'm right but if I'm not someone feel free to correct me..

There are Whites, then there are Others

Whites are the zombie living dead, the Others are like the main ones that make the dead rise and become Whites

In the show you see one of Crasters baby sons get carried off by an Other, he taps the baby on the head and his eyes go blue and he becomes an Other himself

So he went from living, to Other, rather than dead and becoming a White.

Jon Snow killed a white at castle black with fire, but apparently for the Others it's not as effective since the one in the latest episode seem to just walk through it.

But you can kill an other with dragon glass, which is what Sam used when one came for Gillies baby, or Valyrian steel which is what John used

I think being an Other is a pretty elite little clubthough, so for the most part fire would be effective since the main part of the evil undead army is whites, but you need some dragon glass or Valaryian steel or dragon fire for the few Others

 

[ACFFAN69]

GRRM has responded to the criticism of using rape in his storytelling:

Spoiler

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/03/george-rr-martin-thrones-violence-women

“The books reflect a patriarchal society based on the Middle Ages. The Middle Ages were not a time of sexual egalitarianism. It was very classist, dividing people into three classes. And they had strong ideas about the roles of women. One of the charges against Joan of Arc that got her burned at the stake was that she wore men’s clothing—that was not a small thing. There were, of course, some strong and competent women. It still doesn’t change the nature of the society. And if you look at the books, my heroes and viewpoint characters are all misfits. They’re outliers. They don’t fit the roles society has for them. They’re ‘cripples, bastards, and broken things‘—a dwarf, a fat guy who can’t fight, a bastard, and women who don’t fit comfortably into the roles society has for them (though there are also those who do—like Sansa and Catelyn).

“Now there are people who will say to that, ‘Well, he’s not writing history, he’s writing fantasy—he put in dragons, he should have made an egalitarian society.’ Just because you put in dragons doesn’t mean you can put in anything you want. If pigs could fly, then that’s your book. But that doesn’t mean you also want people walking on their hands instead of their feet. If you’re going to do [a fantasy element], it’s best to only do one of them, or a few. I wanted my books to be strongly grounded in history and to show what medieval society was like, and I was also reacting to a lot of fantasy fiction. Most stories depict what I call the ‘Disneyland Middle Ages’—there are princes and princesses and knights in shining armor, but they didn’t want to show what those societies meant and how they functioned.

“I have millions of women readers who love the books, who come up to me and tell me they love the female characters. Some love Arya, some love Dany, some love Sansa, some love Brienne, some love Cersei—there’s thousands of women who love Cersei despite her obvious flaws. It’s a complicated argument. To be non-sexist, does that mean you need to portray an egalitarian society? That’s not in our history; it’s something for science fiction. And 21st century America isn’t egalitarian, either. There are still barriers against women. It’s better than what it was. It’s not Mad Men any more, which was in my lifetime.

“And then there’s the whole issue of sexual violence, which I’ve been criticized for as well. I’m writing about war, which what almost all epic fantasy is about. But if you’re going to write about war, and you just want to include all the cool battles and heroes killing a lot of orcs and things like that and you don’t portray [sexual violence], then there’s something fundamentally dishonest about that. Rape, unfortunately, is still a part of war today. It’s not a strong testament to the human race, but I don’t think we should pretend it doesn’t exist.

“I want to portray struggle. Drama comes out of conflict. If you portray a utopia, then you probably wrote a pretty boring book.”

 

[EdgarAllenWhoa]

THAT....was pretty intense!


Last two episodes have saved this season for me...again

:character-hobbes:

 

[MFCGod]

I've almost finished reading (well listening to the audiobook) a dance with dragons so I knew what to expect in the pit, but it still fucking awesome.

The fire before hand not so awesome.. that was pretty horrible

 

[ACFFAN69]

Wow! Well that was pretty awesome. Definitely lived up to episode 9 status.

The trailer for next episode makes it look like it's going to be amazing too:

Spoiler

Sansa nails that line.

 

[MFCGod]

Is anyone else continuously underwhelmed by the fighting skills of the unsullied?

 

[BustyEllie]

Is anyone else continuously underwhelmed by the fighting skills of the unsullied?

I thought they were best of the bests.. (or how to spell correctly..) :lol: :dance:

Anyways.. I LOVED IT!