How do Americans out side of America pay taxes?

[Ravi]

Well I live in Germany now and I'm wondering do I need to pay taxes to Germany now? Or can I continue to pay only American taxes? Germany take about 50% of income so I'm not too keen on that and I'm hoping I can just keep paying my American taxes. I don't even know who to call to find out especially since I don't speak German.

 

[LilianaXO]

Good question. I'm pretty curious about this too!

I've been wanting to move to the UK for a few years now and if I ever do, I'll need to learn this information as well.

 

[Mayaaaaa]

I think yes, as a self employed expat you do have to pay dual taxes. But that's as far as my knowledge goes. Hopefully there's some kind of resource there where you can get a little more information on it. Quickly glossing over this guide: http://www.bupa-intl.com/expat/expatgui ... many?tab=1 and it would seem you have to file taxes, but there's also some kind of treaty in place to help you avoid double taxation. I highly suggest you talk to a professional over this. You know how cam girls are with taxes. (Or maybe that's just me?)

 

[ThePioneer]

If you're a U.S. citizen you will still need to pay income taxes even if you're living abroad. There's a foreign tax credit/itemized deduction that you may take to reduce your U.S. tax. I'm not familiar with German tax code though, so I can't help you there.

 

[Falke]

If you are a resident of Germany (rather than on some sort of extended, but temporary stay -- e.g. a student visa) you are probably subject to German taxes. I suspect that when you file your American taxes, there may be a deduction for foreign income taxes paid, so that you aren't doubly taxed on them. You would certainly need to confirm that with a professional. I would suggest that you contact the US Consulate in Frankfurt using the information on this webpage:
http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/U.S.-Citizens-and-Resident-Aliens-Abroad

The Bundeszentralamt für Steuern (German IRS, essentially) also has a website some of which is in English, though it doesn't take much clicking for you to end up back in German:
http://www.bzst.de/EN/Home/home_node.html

You may ultimately need to find a professional who can advise you on your tax liabilities, but perhaps the Consulate has a list of recommended accountants. Professional tax advice from an English-speaking German might be a little pricey, but then you will have someone who speaks English and has knowledge of the German tax code as well.

 

[Sevrin]

http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/ustaxes.html

TL;DR: You pay German taxes, but still need to file a US return.

 

[Ravi]

Thanks guys! Super useful and it gives me a place to start looking. I'll call Frankfurt's IRS office.

 

[trotskyleon]

Generally a lot of these countries will have tax treaties among them which effectively mean you will only pay tax in one country (but both revenue agencies will still withhold tax).

I am sure the USA would have tax treaty with Germany in place at least for companies and I would think for individuals too.

Best thing is to go and talk to a tax consultant in America and they will help you out.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Internati ... s---A-to-Z

That only really deals with income earnt from the USA, you would still have pay taxes on income earnt from Germany. So generally you will have to pay taxes in Germany only and collect whatever tax being witheld in the USA.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/germany.pdf - you are not gonna understand this so you need to see a tax consultant.

A very interesting question to ask on this forum :thumbleft:

 

[rexcode]

You will still have to file US income taxes, and they tend to be more annoying about it, asking for bank statements and such since they'll assume you must be hiding assets. If you're a US citizen living abroad married to a non-US citizen, they'll even demand to see all of their financial information as well.

In fact, the US is the only country that requires citizens that don't live in the US to pay income tax anyway, regardless of the income source. It doesn't really make any sense because if you're not here you aren't getting the benefits of anything that the taxes are paying for.

 

[Sevrin]

You will still have to file US income taxes, and they tend to be more annoying about it, asking for bank statements and such since they'll assume you must be hiding assets. If you're a US citizen living abroad married to a non-US citizen, they'll even demand to see all of their financial information as well.

In fact, the US is the only country that requires citizens that don't live in the US to pay income tax anyway, regardless of the income source. It doesn't really make any sense because if you're not here you aren't getting the benefits of anything that the taxes are paying for.

They are required to file a return. That does not necessarily mean that they will be required to pay any additional taxes.

 

[trotskyleon]

In fact, the US is the only country that requires citizens that don't live in the US to pay income tax anyway, regardless of the income source. It doesn't really make any sense because if you're not here you aren't getting the benefits of anything that the taxes are paying for.

Not true at all.

Income source is everything which is why tax treaties are in place.

I doubt ALL US citizens living outside the US are required to lodge a return. I am sure you can let the IRS know that you no longer have any US sourced income and hence filing tax return is quite pointless.

I will say it again its definetly worth seeing a tax consultant, it might be a cost little bit, but you will have assurance that you will not be hit with big penalties!

Out of curiosity, if you are living abroad what will happen if you do not lodge your US tax return (assuming you have no tax to pay?). They make impose a fine..but I cant see them really enforcing it, it would probably cost them more to enforce it. However they contact the overseas revenue agency and more likely they will take some action however if you dont owe tax..i dont think they will give a shit either.

 

[Sevrin]

I doubt ALL US citizens living outside the US are required to lodge a return. I am sure you can let the IRS know that you no longer have any US sourced income and hence filing tax return is quite pointless.

You are wrong. I gotta give you this though: you are consistent.

 

[trotskyleon]

I doubt ALL US citizens living outside the US are required to lodge a return. I am sure you can let the IRS know that you no longer have any US sourced income and hence filing tax return is quite pointless.

You are wrong. I gotta give you this though: you are consistent.

If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien living or traveling outside the United States, you generally are required to file income tax returns, estate tax returns, and gift tax returns and pay estimated tax in the same way as those residing in the United States. Your income, filing status, and age generally determine whether you must file a return. Generally, you must file a return if your gross income from worldwide sources is at least the amount shown for your filing status in the Filing Requirements table in Chapter 1 of Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad.

states otherwise

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Internat ... quirements

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

Hijacking this thread to ask -


I am currently a NZ citizen. I don't pay NZ taxes..and have never to my knowledge needed to file anythign with them. However, I may at some point very soon become a dual citizen of NZ and USA..

Should I return home to NZ at some point - would I need to continue to pay US taxes then? Is what you're saying (or at least filing returns and jumping through hoops?)

Do i then have the option of revoking my US citizenship?

 

[trotskyleon]

dont need to answer..

but why become a citizen of USA?

Unless you have some shares in the US stockmarket, or savings in US banks for example, then you wont need to pay taxes to the US IRS. However by the sounds of it you are still required to lodge a return with the US IRS.

As for revoking US citizenship... I have no clue.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

dont need to answer..

but why become a citizen of USA?

Unless you have some shares in the US stockmarket, or savings in US banks for example, then you wont need to pay taxes to the US IRS. However by the sounds of it you are still required to lodge a return with the US IRS.

As for revoking US citizenship... I have no clue.

If i stay here and want to be eligible for SS that I am paying into anyway
If i want to study - it is in my best interests.

If i stay here much longer, I'd like to vote.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Hijacking this thread to ask -


I am currently a NZ citizen. I don't pay NZ taxes..and have never to my knowledge needed to file anythign with them. However, I may at some point very soon become a dual citizen of NZ and USA..

Should I return home to NZ at some point - would I need to continue to pay US taxes then? Is what you're saying (or at least filing returns and jumping through hoops?)

Do i then have the option of revoking my US citizenship?

I believe the US is the only major country that taxes people residing in foreign countries for income earned overseas. So no need to file anything with NZ government.

If you moved back to NZ, after becoming a US citizen you would have to file US tax returns. You probably wouldn't owe any US taxes because NZ taxes, at first glance are comparable to US taxes and probably a bit higher (33% above 70K NZ ). So every dollar you pay to NZ would be a credit against US taxes. If you make less than $95K than you can exclude all of your NZ income and filing a tax return would be a hassle but not a huge one. Life gets much more complicated if you make more than $95K. I have not worked oversea, but I know lots of ex-pats and number of dual-citizen, including a Canadian American who is considering exactly the situation you are talking about, moving back to Canada to take care of her mom.

But you really don't want to revoke your US citizenship, unless you are positive you'll never want to go back to US for anything other than short stay. It is really hard to get a visa to visit the US if you've revoked your citizenship.. Hey you reject us, we reject you . If you are in process of becoming a citizen, you'll definitely want to speak to somebody in immigration about what happens, if you do. My guess, is that you'd be better off not being a citizen in the first place than revoking citizenship.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

Hijacking this thread to ask -


I am currently a NZ citizen. I don't pay NZ taxes..and have never to my knowledge needed to file anythign with them. However, I may at some point very soon become a dual citizen of NZ and USA..

Should I return home to NZ at some point - would I need to continue to pay US taxes then? Is what you're saying (or at least filing returns and jumping through hoops?)

Do i then have the option of revoking my US citizenship?

I believe the US is the only major country that taxes people residing in foreign countries for income earned overseas. So no need to file anything with NZ government.

If you moved back to NZ, after becoming a US citizen you would have to file US tax returns. You probably wouldn't owe any US taxes because NZ taxes, at first glance are comparable to US taxes and probably a bit higher (33% above 70K NZ ). So every dollar you pay to NZ would be a credit against US taxes. If you make less than $95K than you can exclude all of your NZ income and filing a tax return would be a hassle but not a huge one. Life gets much more complicated if you make more than $95K. I have not worked oversea, but I know lots of ex-pats and number of dual-citizen, including a Canadian American who is considering exactly the situation you are talking about, moving back to Canada to take care of her mom.

But you really don't want to revoke your US citizenship, unless you are positive you'll never want to go back to US for anything other than short stay. It is really hard to get a visa to visit the US if you've revoked your citizenship.. Hey you reject us, we reject you . If you are in process of becoming a citizen, you'll definitely want to speak to somebody in immigration about what happens, if you do. My guess, is that you'd be better off not being a citizen in the first place than revoking citizenship.

ahhh thank you!
if i revoke my citizen ship does it revoke my greencard status too?
My greencard status is only good for one year out of the country i think anyway...
that's another reason to become a citizen. If say I want to go home for 2 yrs.... I want to be able to return.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

ahhh thank you!
if i revoke my citizen ship does it revoke my greencard status too?
My greencard status is only good for one year out of the country i think anyway...
that's another reason to become a citizen. If say I want to go home for 2 yrs.... I want to be able to return.

With the caveat that I am neither a lawyer or nor knowledgeable about immigration law. (I do know a fair amount about taxes though). My understanding is that once you revoke citizenship you are ineligible for any type of work or student visa, every again.. You can come as tourist visa (maybe) but are limited to 120 days.

Generally the people who revoke their citizenship are high profile folks like Facebook cofounder Servin to save money on taxes.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...rin-gives-up-u-s-citizenship-before-ipo.html

Or average folks who are pretty much permanently working another country and often married to citizen of another country. So you marry some rich NZ chap, and Uncle Sam wants to tax his money, then you'd want consider revoking citizenship.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

ahhh thank you!
if i revoke my citizen ship does it revoke my greencard status too?
My greencard status is only good for one year out of the country i think anyway...
that's another reason to become a citizen. If say I want to go home for 2 yrs.... I want to be able to return.

With the caveat that I am neither a lawyer or nor knowledgeable about immigration law. (I do know a fair amount about taxes though). My understanding is that once you revoke citizenship you are ineligible for any type of work or student visa, every again.. You can come as tourist visa (maybe) but are limited to 120 days.

Generally the people who revoke their citizenship are high profile folks like Facebook cofounder Servin to save money on taxes.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...rin-gives-up-u-s-citizenship-before-ipo.html

Or average folks who are pretty much permanently working another country and often married to citizen of another country. So you marry some rich NZ chap, and Uncle Sam wants to tax his money, then you'd want consider revoking citizenship.

Hummmmm this is all making me think a lot.

Wondering what happens if i marry duke. Who is a US citizen. And we both go back to NZ... for a few years.
Supposedly I should LOOSE my greencard cos im gone for more than a year.

But i could, I think apply for another one based on my next marriage (to duke) as long as it was 10 yrs after the first (which would be 3 yrs from now)... my first greencard was based on my marriage to my ex-husband.

Though that would be major hassle.


Ugh...

Sorry for hijacking this thread. Its nothing i need to think about right now but deffinately a complicated scenario.

 

[Hermione_]

Well I live in Germany now and I'm wondering do I need to pay taxes to Germany now? Or can I continue to pay only American taxes? Germany take about 50% of income so I'm not too keen on that and I'm hoping I can just keep paying my American taxes. I don't even know who to call to find out especially since I don't speak German.

It is best you speak with someone who is well knowledgable in dealing with your situation. I have done a decent amount of research into this as I am an American who lives abroad and works through MFC. I would be careful about filing taxes in Germany if you are not legally allowed to work there. I wouldn't advise to file them yourself.

There are a few useful bits on this page http://www.overseastaxservices.com/inde ... d=57#sec13 I remember reading a few threads in the models only section that helped with this, as well as on the Stripperweb forums.

 

[Just Me]

dont need to answer..

but why become a citizen of USA?

Unless you have some shares in the US stockmarket, or savings in US banks for example, then you wont need to pay taxes to the US IRS. However by the sounds of it you are still required to lodge a return with the US IRS.

As for revoking US citizenship... I have no clue.

If i stay here and want to be eligible for SS that I am paying into anyway
If i want to study - it is in my best interests.

If i stay here much longer, I'd like to vote.

My mum is an English citizen with a green card. She receives SS. She has started the process a few times to becoming a citizen but as far as we can tell the only thing it would give her is the right to vote.

Your Rights and Responsibilities
What you do now as a permanent resident can affect
your ability to become a U.S. citizen later.The process of
becoming a U.S. citizen is called “naturalization.”
As a permanent resident, you have the right to:
• Live and work permanently anywhere in the U.S.
• Apply to become a U.S. citizen once you are eligible.
• Request visas for your husband or wife and unmarried children to live in the U.S.
• Get Social Security, Supplemental Security Income,
and Medicare benefits, if you are eligible.
• Own property in the U.S.
• Apply for a driver’s license in your state or territory.
• Leave and return to the U.S. under certain conditions.
• Attend public school and college.
• Join certain branches of the U.S. Armed Forces.
• Purchase or own a firearm, as long as there are no state
or local restrictions saying you can’t.
As a permanent resident, it is your responsibility to:
• Obey all federal, state, and local laws.
• Pay federal, state, and local income taxes.
• Register with the Selective Service (U.S. Armed
Forces), if you are a male between ages 18 and 26.
See page 11 for instructions.
• Maintain your immigration status.
• Carry proof of your permanent resident status at all
times.
• Change your address online or provide it in writing
to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
within 10 days of each time you move

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=ae853ad15c673210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

dont need to answer..

but why become a citizen of USA?

Unless you have some shares in the US stockmarket, or savings in US banks for example, then you wont need to pay taxes to the US IRS. However by the sounds of it you are still required to lodge a return with the US IRS.

As for revoking US citizenship... I have no clue.

If i stay here and want to be eligible for SS that I am paying into anyway
If i want to study - it is in my best interests.

If i stay here much longer, I'd like to vote.

My mum is an English citizen with a green card. She receives SS. She has started the process a few times to becoming a citizen but as far as we can tell the only thing it would give her is the right to vote.

Your Rights and Responsibilities
What you do now as a permanent resident can affect
your ability to become a U.S. citizen later.The process of
becoming a U.S. citizen is called “naturalization.”
As a permanent resident, you have the right to:
• Live and work permanently anywhere in the U.S.
• Apply to become a U.S. citizen once you are eligible.
• Request visas for your husband or wife and unmarried children to live in the U.S.
• Get Social Security, Supplemental Security Income,
and Medicare benefits, if you are eligible.
• Own property in the U.S.
• Apply for a driver’s license in your state or territory.
• Leave and return to the U.S. under certain conditions.
• Attend public school and college.
• Join certain branches of the U.S. Armed Forces.
• Purchase or own a firearm, as long as there are no state
or local restrictions saying you can’t.
As a permanent resident, it is your responsibility to:
• Obey all federal, state, and local laws.
• Pay federal, state, and local income taxes.
• Register with the Selective Service (U.S. Armed
Forces), if you are a male between ages 18 and 26.
See page 11 for instructions.
• Maintain your immigration status.
• Carry proof of your permanent resident status at all
times.
• Change your address online or provide it in writing
to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
within 10 days of each time you move

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=ae853ad15c673210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

what. what.
why did i have it in my head i wouldnt get the SS benefits ??

 

[trotskyleon]

Mind you..generally being citizen has no relevance on your tax filing requirements.

For tax purposes the term used is "resident" and the definition is very different to what you may think. So even though you may not be a US citizen you may still have the same reporting requirements as you may still be considered a resident of the USA.

:twocents-02cents:

I am guessing you dont need to be a US citizenship now, saves you hassle :thumbleft:

PS. This should be in random discussion.

Still amazed this question popped up in this forum :lol:

 

[Gummydrops]

I'm an American working another job in South Korea, so I'm already used to the process of filing Korean earnings as US taxes.

BUT! Would camming in another country qualify as "foreign-earned income" or can it simply be American-earned income? Does my work on MFC, Chaturbate, and ExtraLunchMoney get taxed in America still? Honestly I don't WANT my MFC/Chaturbate/ELM earnings to be exempt from American taxes--I'd like to have my online work make Roth IRA contributions possible.

Does anyone know the answer to this question? Or suggestions for where to find the answer myself? I have had no luck so far.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I'm an American working another job in South Korea, so I'm already used to the process of filing Korean earnings as US taxes.

BUT! Would camming in another country qualify as "foreign-earned income" or can it simply be American-earned income? Does my work on MFC, Chaturbate, and ExtraLunchMoney get taxed in America still? Honestly I don't WANT my MFC/Chaturbate/ELM earnings to be exempt from American taxes--I'd like to have my online work make Roth IRA contributions possible.

Does anyone know the answer to this question? Or suggestions for where to find the answer myself? I have had no luck so far.

If you earn income while in foreign country it is treated as foreign-earned income regardless of the nationality of corporation that paid you. I.e. You'd be considered to earn the money in Korea regardless if you worked for MFC, US company, Streammate, Cyprus, or IBM, American . Now if you were in the US while you were doing some camming you probably be able to keep that portion of income earned in the US to be exclude as foreign income.
Which would allow the funding of an IRA Roth or traditional.

This page seems like a reasonable starting point. http://taxes.about.com/od/retiremen...ent-Accounts-For-Americans-Working-Abroad.htm also IRS publication 54. But my real suggestion is to find a forum for US expat working in Korea. A quick google found a 1/2 dozen. All of my expat friends recommend country specific forums as the best source of info.

 

[Gummydrops]

If you earn income while in foreign country it is treated as foreign-earned income regardless of the nationality of corporation that paid you. I.e. You'd be considered to earn the money in Korea regardless if you worked for MFC, US company, Streammate, Cyprus, or IBM, American .

That's exactly the information I was looking for and unable to find on forums because no one talks about being a camgirl in Korea--I'm still not sure it's legal because I haven't found that information either. Sigh! But I do know that *I'm* not supposed to have another job aside from my own, so it's all a big pile of tricky if I have to report it to Korea somehow after my two tax-free years end after this year.

Thanks so much, even though it's sad news for me.