Open Letter to all of the MFC Viewers

[Mark6887]

OK I'll bite. Yes I did see it on twitter. I can understand where she is coming from because after all it is their job. How a vast majority pay bills so the frustration is understandable.

I like to think of myself as a decent tipper but as stated in other threads I spend 99.8 % of 1 room and just kind of hang out or cruise by elsewhere. I do try to drop a few tokens in a room no matter what and recently did that in a room or 2 where the models tweeted they had zero tips after 30 minutes etc. ( Pitiful and these where not newbies )

The no talking crowd is something I can't explain won't even try.

I see 2 things that really bother me. The first being the no pay... come on Mark we know you will so tip her so we can bust a nut crowd ! Do what ?! Go buy tokens and pitch in you cheap :angry4: I understand you don't want to blow 100 tokens but if a model has a 100 until bra off and 105 of us our in the room it's a token a piece ???

The second part of that are the fine 5,000 to 10,000 token I'll high tipper a couple times and be king guys. Ladies they are BS artists . I can think of 1 guy that has been on MFC and CB under about 6 names that's doing the same scam. Every-time he gets the same pat on the back... ( my hero ) treatment I have run into him cruising 3 times each time bragging about "I am done with that %$ " Nothing but a proverbial one squirt wonder that dude.

And please models I have been that high tipper it's great but the ones I speak of have swollen heads and won't be in your room long. What I think every model wants ( correct me if I am wrong here) is the steady regular tippers.
500 a week for 6 months is better then 5,000 and gone forever. My point on that is reward regular loyal tippers. In the room I frequent those of us that our part of that fraternity are called "warriors". Make it fun... give them a reason to spend again tomorrow.

I would add in closing that things are slow because of the after holidays $ drain as well as tax time coupled with everything going up again. Not an excuse for being cheap but part of why things maybe slow.

I really have grown to admire the camming community in that they are a kind and caring bunch of people so please just take this as feedback. Anyway my :twocents-02cents:

 

[Fay_Galore]

"We get excited at the thought of logging on cam, and having our audience converse, react and masturbate with such FURY that it makes us feel like we can rule the world"

well, I dont have a lot to say about the subject, except that I prefer non-tipping people talking at least, keeps me upbeat and therefor more interesting for tipping members.

 

[yossarian]

Well....

I mean, I get it. I get what she's saying. And I agree with her--I fucking HATE being in a room where the model and I are the only ones talking, or I'm expected to shoulder the weight of the entire countdown because everyone is sitting on their tokens. I agree with the sentiments. I wish people would listen. I just can't see what this letter really accomplishes beyond making the writer feel better, and making other cam girls raise their fists in solidarity. If that's all she was going for then, you know, good job.

But...

The audience, as stated, is “All of the MFC viewers.” Maybe that wasn’t the intended audience, but when you state that at the top and make no effort to distinguish between tippers and freeloaders in your lecture, you’ve made your audience “All of the MFC viewers.” That’s a problem, especially because the writer mocks members who have wives and who are unemployed and who maybe don’t make a lot of money and those categories also include tippers. Married men tip (even married men who love their wives). Unemployed people tip what they can. Guys without a lot of money tip what they can. And the writer insulted all these people. I know, Ashleigh has said she was only kidding with the “boring wives" comment. That didn’t come across. The rest of the tone is serious, so it comes off as a petty insult designed to hurt. Ditto with the comments that boil down to “get off your ass and get a job.” If I was unemployed, looking for a job, and maybe spending a few free hours a day (because looking for a job is not a 24-hour activity) on a cam site as a distraction from the misery of being unemployed, I probably wouldn’t appreciate somebody pointing at me and telling me I was a lazy, worthless fuck. I mean, I’m only speculating, but it probably wouldn’t make me inclined to reach for my moth-ridden wallet, you know? And again, unemployed people might still be able to afford to tip. And you just basically said they were scum.

So what does this letter accomplish?

1. It makes the writer feel better.
2. It makes other models feel better.
3. It makes freeloaders dig in their heels, giving them evidence (from their perspective) that models are entitled prima donnas who expect all the money to rain down on them because they’re pretty. “This is why I don’t tip,” the freeloaders say, in their best Mr. Pink voice.
4. It makes people who are too shy to talk in a model's room either more intimidated (holy shit, am I going to be yelled at for not tipping enough?), or insulted. I know some introverts, and they really don't like being bullied into participating.
5. It makes members who do tip possibly think twice. “Hmm, do the models I tip think this way? Am I just a cash machine to them?" "If they don't appreciate what I tip and only want more, more, more...well, why bother?"

I know people like to piss all over the idea of "tactfulness" but it actually gets more results than lighting everything on fire. If your natural tone is "blunt," as Ashleigh says hers is, then perhaps you're not the best person to write a letter that is supposed to persuade people to do something they clearly have reasons for not doing.

:twocents-02cents: Actually, that was probably more like four cents. Sorry.

 

[mutantdonut]

It sure is.
When I first started 3 years ago I picked my time slot based on the amount of models online. I would sign on late nights because thats when the model count was in 3 digits. Back then when I would sign online there were only about 700ish girls online. You never see that number anymore. Now when I sign on in that very same time slot there will be 1600 girls online.

It's crazy to think about how quickly things changed, because even when I first started camming it had already been around for a LONG time. What has changed within the past few years that suddenly caused those numbers to sky rocket?
Social media, probably.
Tumblr, Twitter, Instagram, Vine, have all also risen in popularity and that's where camgirls market. I didn't even know camming was a thing until my friend who did it told me about it. Now you have tons of pretty girls on all these social media sites stumbling upon camming because our pics, advertisements, gifs, video clips and all that other good stuff are getting spread around on these sites. I think it's just becoming way easier to "discover" than it used to be.
That's my theory, at least. :confusion-shrug:

That has me curious as to how much the demand has kept up with the supply. ...like what the models-to-members ratio was 3 years ago, versus 1 year ago, versus today. Anyone have that info?

 

[Joeternal]

My advice, as a member on MFC for some time, is this: instead of focusing on the people who aren't tipping or aren't talking, focus on giving better treatment to the ones who are.

It sounds really obvious and simple, but too many cam models just don't get it.

 

[Sevrin]

Over the years, I've racked up around 25k RP over a few accounts. When I started to feel that I somehow "owed" it to models to tip them rather than it being a place were I was going to have a fun evening, is when I started spending less and less time, and less and less money on MFC.

 

[Aella]

I posted this response on Tumblr, but I'll post it here as it's easier to have a discussion through this medium:

I disagree, highly. You seem to think that they owe us something; that by going on stage we are naturally ‘deserving’ of payment or success. This is not the case. We never ‘deserve’ anything; we did not enter into a contract with anybody for inevitable payment. Nobody agreed to pay us before they watched us.

Anybody can go on stage, but the onus is entirely on the performer. People do not ‘decide’ whether or not to experience entertainment, and you can’t force them to. You have to create that feeling within them, and if they are not entertained, it is entirely your fault.

So I disagree. At no point do we deserve anything from anybody; nobody signed their name on a dotted line for us. Every tip is a gift and should be treated as such.

And I say this from a position where I 'have' worked very very frequently, at times, and where my camscore once was within the 2k range. I know what it's like to be super fucking frustrated - but simply because we feel like we should be earning tips does not mean we should be earning tips. There's no such thing as 'should be.' That's just a construct based off of past experiences, or comparison to other girls.

 

[Alcon]

I've said this before and I know it's not in the power of anyone here, but there is one thing MFC could easily do to increase activity on the site and make countdowns go a lot faster. Simply allow the option of public chat countdowns towards a goal where no members are charged until the goal is met.

Every countdown is like a little Kickstarter, the fundamental model is the same, it's about fundraising. Therefore the same structures maximize incentives. I would be tipping in every room if I knew that I would not be charged until I saw the show that I wanted to see. Even if I just wanted the model to make her goal, I would be much more willing to tip if the actual charge was contingent on success. From the model's standpoint, it's a win-win because you can always reduce your goal if you really think you are not going to make it and take the existing commitments. From the member's standpoint it is a win-win. There is no zero sum here- it's just a technological solution to the collective action problem which eliminates the problem of risk and uncertainty. This is just a hidden cost to doing business on the site that could be easily fixed.

 

[CharlotteLace]

I've said this before and I know it's not in the power of anyone here, but there is one thing MFC could easily do to increase activity on the site and make countdowns go a lot faster. Simply allow the option of public chat countdowns towards a goal where no members are charged until the goal is met.

Every countdown is like a little Kickstarter, the fundamental model is the same, it's about fundraising. Therefore the same structures maximize incentives. I would be tipping in every room if I knew that I would not be charged until I saw the show that I wanted to see. Even if I just wanted the model to make her goal, I would be much more willing to tip if the actual charge was contingent on success. From the model's standpoint, it's a win-win because you can always reduce your goal if you really think you are not going to make it and take the existing commitments. From the member's standpoint it is a win-win. There is no zero sum here- it's just a technological solution to the collective action problem which eliminates the problem of risk and uncertainty. This is just a hidden cost to doing business on the site that could be easily fixed.

Yeah, that's pretty much Streamate's format, and I highly prefer it to cam on. Then again, MFC and Streamate are very, very different beasts and emphasize different room atmospheres. While SM can be social, there is a much more transactional nature to shows there, and if you don't want to pay, you won't see much of anything in free chat. I've heard MFC regulars refer to SM as a meat-market, while MFC is more for relaxing, and not necessarily sexy shows.

Which is okay- they don't really need to be the same type of camsite, and girls find often one or the other works for them. Each place has a very different strategy for bringing in traffic, and both have their pros/cons.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I've said this before and I know it's not in the power of anyone here, but there is one thing MFC could easily do to increase activity on the site and make countdowns go a lot faster. Simply allow the option of public chat countdowns towards a goal where no members are charged until the goal is met.

Every countdown is like a little Kickstarter, the fundamental model is the same, it's about fundraising. Therefore the same structures maximize incentives. I would be tipping in every room if I knew that I would not be charged until I saw the show that I wanted to see. Even if I just wanted the model to make her goal, I would be much more willing to tip if the actual charge was contingent on success. From the model's standpoint, it's a win-win because you can always reduce your goal if you really think you are not going to make it and take the existing commitments. From the member's standpoint it is a win-win. There is no zero sum here- it's just a technological solution to the collective action problem which eliminates the problem of risk and uncertainty. This is just a hidden cost to doing business on the site that could be easily fixed.

What you have basically proposed is a Streammate Gold Show, which I would love to see. I believe Chaturbate has a similar feature although I am not sure of the details.. AFAIK MFC has shown no interest in implementing a feature like this.. and you are right it is about the incentives.

From Mark6887

I see 2 things that really bother me. The first being the no pay... come on Mark we know you will so tip her so we can bust a nut crowd ! Do what ?! Go buy tokens and pitch in you cheap :angry4: I understand you don't want to blow 100 tokens but if a model has a 100 until bra off and 105 of us our in the room it's a token a piece ???

This is a common fallacy and I've been guilty of it myself. It ain't convincing 100 folks to contribute a token, it is convincing 3 premium in the room who could pay but haven't paid they should pony up and spend $8 on cum show rather than on movie ticket, a drink or DLC.

I have measured the ratio of premium to total room scores of times over the last 2 year it is very rarely over 20% and 15% is more common.. (The rest of my numbers are wild ass guess and if somebody has better data...I'd love to see it)
So instead of 100 folks there are only 15 would could donate the last 100 tokens.
Of those 15, probably 3 are 20/0 premiums and will never spend another dime on MFC. Two more are probably really broke, cards maxed out whatever.
The leaves 10...
Lets say countdown was 2,000, and 100 remains
Perhaps 1 guy tipped 800, 3 guys bought videos for 250 each. 2 tipped 100, and 3 50... maybe a a few guys made a 5 or 10 token tip.
So 9 total tipper, perhaps 4 have left the room
That leaves 5 folks who could finish that count. It is pretty likely that of those 5, a couple have recently been major tippers to the model in the last month, but have now spent their token allowance for the pay period. So this leaves 3 guys, who arguable should contribute to the countdown but haven't. Given that there is almost always another cum showing going on live on MFC, It isn't surprising the countdown fail in this situation. What generally happens is a new premium enters the room and finishes it, or the top tipper does, or the model logs off pissed as do the tippers..

Now I am sure for popular rooms that number maybe 3 dozen instead, but the point is it isn't hundreds or thousand.. So much of focus on ACF and twitter seems be on extracting more money from the 15%, rather than getting the 85% to pay anything. :twocents-02cents:

 

[JoleneBrody]

I'm not going to lie, I really hate the whole thing. I get the sentiment and frustration behind it. We've all logged out frustrated, worried about bills, concerned that maybe the viability of the job is shifting etc. But, if you're going to call yourself a performer, when you're on the outside of the curtain, keep your game face on. No one is forced to take a commission job. Commission jobs aren't for the faint of heart. It's stressful. The audience isn't supposed to know that. I think it also validates that girls who whine on a daily basis via the Twitter. I'll take a handful of quiet freeloaders over a consistently whining model any day.

Yes. Freeloaders should probably stop freeloading. They know that. Everybody knows that. But, any model who lets them get to her badly enough to become unlikeable should probably just try selling vacuums or something. And, if a vacuum salesman taped this note to my door, I'd laugh my face clean off. EVERYONE'S mental health at the end of the day is their own responsibility.

Also, Bono we ain't. Some of us might look better naked than Bono. A few of us might even do more charity work than Bono, but if Bono climbed up on stage and pointed out that his audience wasn't stroking his ego hard enough, I hope someone would throw something heavy at him.

I went on a thanking spree but just had to quote this post in particular for extra thanks and seconding.

I've spent a lot of time evaluating myself, my style, my room... logging off angry and feeling like it's everyone's fault but my own... logging off sad and thinking I'm just not good enough... Saying things out of frustration that I later regret immensely... blah blah blah blah at that stuff that every single one of us, and anyone in just about any job goes through.
The one thing I have found over the last several years that has kind of settled in to this current really
enjoyable cam thing I have going on, is that it is me 90% of the time that is the creator of my bad nights.
Now we all have that 10% when it just doesn't matter what you are doing, it's just an off night. Meh, it happens... but I'm now more than ever a firm believer than if bad nights outweigh the good it's probably you and you may need to seriously evaluate your show/attitude from a critical standpoint. It took a lot of self evaluation to get to this point but I can confidently say now that if I have a bad night it's because I was off my groove and need to think about how I could have done better.

As some have already pointed out, MFC has grown and changed SO much in just the last three years. Not only is the number of girls online overall much higher but the type of entertainment offered is as well. What used to be a crazy wild show everyone talked about is now the norm. The bars have been raised so to speak and if we can't roll with the punches and grow with the beast, it will eat us... or stare at us blankly until we go mad. :lol:

I'm blabbing a lot but this is so relevant to the things I've been pondering so heavily lately so I can't help but yammer about what has brought me so much peace and happiness lately, and that's just holding myself accountable and not spoiling my own party with my grumpy grumbles int he end has made me a much happier camgirl.

 

[Kunra9]

I'm not going to lie, I really hate the whole thing. I get the sentiment and frustration behind it. We've all logged out frustrated, worried about bills, concerned that maybe the viability of the job is shifting etc. But, if you're going to call yourself a performer, when you're on the outside of the curtain, keep your game face on. No one is forced to take a commission job. Commission jobs aren't for the faint of heart. It's stressful. The audience isn't supposed to know that. I think it also validates that girls who whine on a daily basis via the Twitter. I'll take a handful of quiet freeloaders over a consistently whining model any day.

Yes. Freeloaders should probably stop freeloading. They know that. Everybody knows that. But, any model who lets them get to her badly enough to become unlikeable should probably just try selling vacuums or something. And, if a vacuum salesman taped this note to my door, I'd laugh my face clean off. EVERYONE'S mental health at the end of the day is their own responsibility.

Also, Bono we ain't. Some of us might look better naked than Bono. A few of us might even do more charity work than Bono, but if Bono climbed up on stage and pointed out that his audience wasn't stroking his ego hard enough, I hope someone would throw something heavy at him.

I went on a thanking spree but just had to quote this post in particular for extra thanks and seconding.

I've spent a lot of time evaluating myself, my style, my room... logging off angry and feeling like it's everyone's fault but my own... logging off sad and thinking I'm just not good enough... Saying things out of frustration that I later regret immensely... blah blah blah blah at that stuff that every single one of us, and anyone in just about any job goes through.
The one thing I have found over the last several years that has kind of settled in to this current really
enjoyable cam thing I have going on, is that it is me 90% of the time that is the creator of my bad nights.
Now we all have that 10% when it just doesn't matter what you are doing, it's just an off night. Meh, it happens... but I'm now more than ever a firm believer than if bad nights outweigh the good it's probably you and you may need to seriously evaluate your show/attitude from a critical standpoint. It took a lot of self evaluation to get to this point but I can confidently say now that if I have a bad night it's because I was off my groove and need to think about how I could have done better.

As some have already pointed out, MFC has grown and changed SO much in just the last three years. Not only is the number of girls online overall much higher but the type of entertainment offered is as well. What used to be a crazy wild show everyone talked about is now the norm. The bars have been raised so to speak and if we can't roll with the punches and grow with the beast, it will eat us... or stare at us blankly until we go mad. :lol:

I'm blabbing a lot but this is so relevant to the things I've been pondering so heavily lately so I can't help but yammer about what has brought me so much peace and happiness lately, and that's just holding myself accountable and not spoiling my own party with my grumpy grumbles int he end has made me a much happier camgirl.

This. All of this.

I have seen girls rise from a 500 camscore to top 20 within a year. I have seen top girls struggle after a year as their loyal customers dwindle away. Just recently, a girl I use to visit and tip on a regular basis had a blowout on Twitter where she exclaimed "MFC ISN'T THE SAME ANYMORE!!!!!!!"

I wanted to reply and say "You're right. Adapt. Evolve or die."

You HAVE to look at yourself first. You have to. The most offensive part of your post is when you say "You guys have to do better."
No. YOU have to do better. Because for ME to do better as a customer, means I'm gonna go find better entertainment. A girl that IS doing better.
You ARE the boring wife in this situation.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

Here is what I think.

I think it is my job to be entertaining, and that if the client/customer/member is not BUYING today then .. in any other industry its not the customer you blame. Its the seller.
In our case, its not just ourselves that are the sellers, its also MFC.. we are using their platform and in some cases, when its not up to par.. we suffer.

You blame customers for basic respectful things: you walk into a store, you dont get to throw stuff all over the isles. You go to a concert you dont get to heckle the performer. etc.

However you don't blame them for not being moved to part with their cash if your pitch isn't good enough.

BUT - if you are sitting in a room for a while, and are NOT moved to contribute in some way - financially or by talking - then you are NOT being respectful if you stay.. (this is not aimed at a regular tipper but soemone who has come across a new model and has no intention of tipping or talking ever because she is 'not entertaining' enough for whatever reason).
I would NEVER walk up to a busker, in the street - listen to the entire performance for more than a few minutes then walk away.. without throwing them a few nickels. If they're NOT good enough for me to do this, then i would not stay to listen. Same goes in chat rooms.. its NOT respectful to stay for hours and ignore a girl. It's JUST NOT. Talking, chatting etc - that is work and we do deserve to get paid for our time. If our brand of social camming is not something you enjoy, dont waste our time... it IS disrespectful.

I did *empathaize* with the frustration that ash is expressing in this post. Sometimes you want to shake your room and just fucking kick them over and over. But my bad days are - as jolene said, usually mostly a creation of my own lack of being on my A game in some way or other. Sometimes they're just off, but even then.. I'm not really going to blame them for being unmoved to part with cash. Its just what was going on that day.

I also understand that it can be incredibly hard when what you're selling is, yourself. its personal. Even when you try to be objective its PERSONAL.

What i wish is.. that we could all just treat each other like human beings with respect.

That models wouldn't treat members like ATM's (not saying ash does..)

That members would remember that even though they are waiting to be entertained, and might not be the way they'd like or whatever, that the person sitting in front of them IS a person.. and deserves to be treated as such.

And that we ALL practice expressing respect and gratitude for each other.. and i think this is a human responsiblity, and the reason MFC can turn into such a shit show sometimes is when these two things aren't being done - either by members OR models..

So maybe we should *all* step up our game in those regards.

Speaking of respect, some of the hateful responses you got to this ash, were ridiculous. I'm really sorry they were so disrespectful.

But some of the things you said "boring wife" comment were really uncalled for too. You replied in one post earlier how you could see how that could be offensive, but its not just about seeing it..its about saying 'i wish i hadn't said that' when you say something that's uncalled for. I didn't see you doing that.. so yeah, i really feel like if you're going to ask for respect, we have to demonstrate it...

That said, i mean I'm not perfect.. so its not like i can really sit here and pick you apart over this.

 

[Remykins]

Everyones experiences with camming is different so I know there are going to be differing opinions and outlooks (I'm talking simply from a camgirls POV because no offense guys, until you're a cam entertainer you really don't understand what its like to do our job so making judgements on what we do/need to do just don't apply) and honestly if some girls are not experiencing the 100's of non tippers a night, or the dead silent chatrooms full of lurkers, then I'm honestly really happy for you. But there is a large group of mfc models, some of whom are even top 100 who have been dealing with full rooms with zero talking. Full rooms with zero tipping. All the while they're busting ass and doing a good job at it...its not just me, its a large group of models and I just felt the need to speak up. Yes I'm aggressive and yes people dislike my personality sometimes...but my post was put out there with genuinely good intentions and I hope everyone knows that. I've been called everything in the book because of that one blog post and told that I'm a horrible human being....and, well, really? lol.

Anyways, I didn't expect it all to blow up the way it did, but I'm still glad I posted it. I've had dozens of camgirls come to me privately to thank me and to tell me that they're glad I posted it. I've also had a few more new gentlemen come out of the woodwork to introduce themselves because they felt too shy to do it in the past. So I've personally seen good things come out of it and its only one day later so..yeah. Glad I posted, sorry if it offended anyone.

 

[mankor]

A few good points, and unfortunately I don't have the answers but I do have some observations.

Sometimes there will be some chatter going on in the room, then all of a sudden from nowhere comes a massive tip from outside of the room, boom! How does the model handle that? Obviously someone in PM or whatever, but if the model chats to them on cam the rest of the room is wondering what's going on. Blows away any 10 token tippers, makes us feel paltry.

I usually try to chat in the room, but probably half of the time I am ignored, either the model just doesn't take an interest in the chat or she only interacts with her regulars.

This is the one that gets me - I have been banned for chatting on more than one occasion, in a room where the model has been moaning that nobody is chatting.

So you can say what you like about premiums, guests and basics, there are plenty of problems with the way models handle themselves and their rooms too. The coin has two sides.

 

[RebeccaT]

I wonder how much this would be eased if there was no camscore.

On one site I work it takes me a long, long time to reach my target but it doesn't harm my placement. And I enjoy the time spent relaxing and chatting and am happy to get the silent lurkers involved (I see it as a challenge!) because I know I'm not ruining a camscore.

I have bad days but I would never Tweet it...that seems disrespectful to the few who tipped...it's like saying thanks but you didn't do enough.

Having said that, I have abandoned MFC because of some very nasty trolling about my breast cancer, not because of non-tippers. I didn't realise how fragile I still am. When I've get over the shock that people can be so ignorant, I may well be back!

So be warned...if you are a silent lurker, I have ways of making you talk!

 

[Kunra9]

Everyones experiences with camming is different so I know there are going to be differing opinions and outlooks (I'm talking simply from a camgirls POV because no offense guys, until you're a cam entertainer you really don't understand what its like to do our job so making judgements on what we do/need to do just don't apply) and honestly if some girls are not experiencing the 100's of non tippers a night, or the dead silent chatrooms full of lurkers, then I'm honestly really happy for you. But there is a large group of mfc models, some of whom are even top 100 who have been dealing with full rooms with zero talking. Full rooms with zero tipping. All the while they're busting ass and doing a good job at it...its not just me, its a large group of models and I just felt the need to speak up. Yes I'm aggressive and yes people dislike my personality sometimes...but my post was put out there with genuinely good intentions and I hope everyone knows that. I've been called everything in the book because of that one blog post and told that I'm a horrible human being....and, well, really? lol.

Anyways, I didn't expect it all to blow up the way it did, but I'm still glad I posted it. I've had dozens of camgirls come to me privately to thank me and to tell me that they're glad I posted it. I've also had a few more new gentlemen come out of the woodwork to introduce themselves because they felt too shy to do it in the past. So I've personally seen good things come out of it and its only one day later so..yeah. Glad I posted, sorry if it offended anyone.

You have to be willing to look at yourself. It's something you didn't acknowledge in your original blog or any of the replies. Plenty of camgirls have chimed in and said there is blame to go to the person in the mirror.

 

[LilyMarie]

People do not ‘decide’ whether or not to experience entertainment, and you can’t force them to. You have to create that feeling within them, and if they are not entertained, it is entirely your fault.

Pretty sure that when someone's hanging in your room for 30+ minutes without leaving, every time you're on cam, they are experiencing entertainment, and therefore yes I do deserve a tip from them. (Or a goddamn 'hi Lily' once in a while.)

 

[ThePrincessLuxy]

Thank you, Ashleigh!

 

[mynameisbob84]

Everyones experiences with camming is different so I know there are going to be differing opinions and outlooks (I'm talking simply from a camgirls POV because no offense guys, until you're a cam entertainer you really don't understand what its like to do our job so making judgements on what we do/need to do just don't apply) and honestly if some girls are not experiencing the 100's of non tippers a night, or the dead silent chatrooms full of lurkers, then I'm honestly really happy for you. But there is a large group of mfc models, some of whom are even top 100 who have been dealing with full rooms with zero talking. Full rooms with zero tipping. All the while they're busting ass and doing a good job at it...its not just me, its a large group of models and I just felt the need to speak up. Yes I'm aggressive and yes people dislike my personality sometimes...but my post was put out there with genuinely good intentions and I hope everyone knows that. I've been called everything in the book because of that one blog post and told that I'm a horrible human being....and, well, really? lol.

Anyways, I didn't expect it all to blow up the way it did, but I'm still glad I posted it. I've had dozens of camgirls come to me privately to thank me and to tell me that they're glad I posted it. I've also had a few more new gentlemen come out of the woodwork to introduce themselves because they felt too shy to do it in the past. So I've personally seen good things come out of it and its only one day later so..yeah. Glad I posted, sorry if it offended anyone.

I'm not so sure that not being a cam girl makes it impossible to make judgements and form opinions about camming that ring true. I'm not a musician but I can state with confidence that in order to make money, a musician needs to write/perform songs that people want to hear, cultivate an image that people find endearing, and market themselves effectively. If they don't do those things, they're not likely to succeed. I can also state with confidence that blaming their audience when things aren't going their way isn't likely to do them any favours.

 

[mynameisbob84]

People do not ‘decide’ whether or not to experience entertainment, and you can’t force them to. You have to create that feeling within them, and if they are not entertained, it is entirely your fault.

Pretty sure that when someone's hanging in your room for 30+ minutes without leaving, every time you're on cam, they are experiencing entertainment, and therefore yes I do deserve a tip from them. (Or a goddamn 'hi Lily' once in a while.)

I think you do too, as do the folk who do tip you, but not everybody thinks that way. I think if you're listening to music or watching a film and you're being entertained by it, then that musician or the folk who made that film should be compensated for their time and effort. But again, not everybody thinks that way, which is why people download music and films (and whatever else) without paying for it. The only difference I can see between that and freeloaders on MFC is that freeloading on MFC isn't illegal (it's actually encouraged by the site owners).

I can absolutely see why this would be frustrating for a model, but it's how the site operates. By allowing members to tip whatever amount they want for a cam girl's time, yes, some members will see that as justification for hanging out in your room for hours on end while never tipping you. The flipside of that is that some members will tip you way way more than the vast majority of working people will ever earn in an hour. Some members will even tip you when you're not working, just because they like you enough to do so. Sadly, you can't really have one without the other, ya know? That's just not how MFC works :twocents-02cents:

 

[Mark6887]

My advice, as a member on MFC for some time, is this: instead of focusing on the people who aren't tipping or aren't talking, focus on giving better treatment to the ones who are.

It sounds really obvious and simple, but too many cam models just don't get it.

:thumbleft:

Some great dialog here. You have to give credit SpexyAshleigh for getting people to at least think about/ talk about the above topic. Kudos to all that have posted

 

[RebeccaT]

Today's guests, basics, lurking premiums are all tomorrow's tippers.

 

[schlmoe]

There have been a ton of good (and some not so good) points made by both "sides", so at this point I don't think I have anything of value to add...yet :mrgreen:

Pretty sure that when someone's hanging in your room for 30+ minutes without leaving, every time you're on cam, they are experiencing entertainment, and therefore yes I do deserve a tip from them. (Or a goddamn 'hi Lily' once in a while.)

In no way am I going to defend the silent lurkers (and definitely not defending the non-tippers), but I believe that when you say "experiencing entertainment", I think a portion of them are expecting entertainment.

Let me explain a bit: a long time ago, there was a thread or poll here on "how do you view MFC" or something like that. I was shocked on how many members talked about filling up 2 or 3 monitors with pop-up chat rooms. Most didn't give a big explanation, but I assumed that they were scoping out multiple rooms and waiting for the "best" show. There was even a dude that posted an "app" here to make it easier to do so. So in this scenario (and I think it happens more than anyone would like to admit), how on earth can these dudes pay attention to any of the chats, much less contribute to it.

Then you have another portion of viewers (that have admitted that here) that keep a chat room on as "background noise". While I don't do either, I can kind of understand this one.

So my point is, in a room of 1000 viewers: 800+ are muted and can't chat; maybe 50 or so fall into the categories I mentioned above, another 50 or so are new/shy/emote talkers...then there's the trolls, lol. Who and what are you left with (to chat)? And scale that down to a room with 100 viewers (or less)?

The model sees 1000 and nobody is talking, but in reality there maybe only 30-50 who might want to chat...but they are all reluctant to be the 1st one. Or I'm totally off base :?

The non-tippers is a horse of a different color

As far as the "Open Letter", I'm sure there were good intentions behind it. But what if a car salesman (or almost any commission worker) posted a letter like that at his dealership?

"Why are you taking up my time, asking all those questions that could be answered with our fancy pamphlets, come back multiple times and YOU DON"T BUY ANYTHING???"

Yes, I know it's not the same thing...but maybe it is

 

[curvyredhead]

As a member, I get tired of frequently being the ONLY person talking and tipping in the model's room. At some point, its nice to have someone else step up and at least contribute to the conversation. :twocents-02cents:

No kidding. That starts to feel pretty strange after a while. The pressure to keep conversation going can be tough. (OK, so models feel that all the time, obviously, but it's their job at least.) It can cause all sorts of weirdness and stress on the model-member relationship if it happens too often. But that's a whole different topic, which probably belongs elsewhere.

Amen.

As a model when I am perving...I feel weird talking a lot, it just doesn't look right. But, unless I am using the room as back round noise or just to shy to speak up...I CAN'T sit there silent in a room. And, so when no one else is talking...despite how much i might adore the girl...i end up leaving.

I've said this before and I know it's not in the power of anyone here, but there is one thing MFC could easily do to increase activity on the site and make countdowns go a lot faster. Simply allow the option of public chat countdowns towards a goal where no members are charged until the goal is met.

While I like the idea of this (kinda GoldShowy). On MFC this would mean loosing out on at least a solid half my tokens. I almost never make my last goal of the night..and sometimes don't make ones even before that. And I am not willing to compromise on what I am charging for my shows. So it would mean poof goodbye to the 50% of all those shows I worked for. Not to mention I still worked for that half a goal. With videos, flashes, dances and general entertainment. This would also royally fuck up a camscore. If a girl says 1000 for topless...makes it down to the last 400 and can just feel the room is not going ot make it and logs out....that 600 is now gone..so would it/would it now go to overall camscore equation? Becouse the the actual time spent doing it, was still put in.

 

[CallMeWilliam]

Having read through this topic I have a question (for the models)...

Why do you give a shit about the freeloaders (or non-talkers) in the first place?

Having ran a successful business for 15 years and sold it 5 years ago based on software I wrote I never once cared about the people who pirated my software (which amounted to 42% of the installs at one time). The whole *they may be potential paying customers* is a crock of shit, I paid attention to the customers that bought the software and treated them well. In return they gave me more business though word of mouth and glowing reviews of the software. In the end that is all I cared about. Sure I could have made more money by thwarting the piracy but it would have taken away from the people who really mattered the paying customers.

There will always be people who want something for nothing from you it's best to ignore them, no use festering hatred for people who are never going to tip you.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[Bocefish]

I'm onboard with both the Jicky and Jolene train of thought on this one and would have replied earlier, but thought it probably wouldn't go over so well coming from a non model.

The camming industry has changed so much over the years and many of us really miss the old days when camscores weren't such an issue. Everyone enjoyed it sooooo much more. But alas, times change and businesses grow along with competition. You have to be constantly adapting to the changes or get left behind.

Models run their own rooms and if people aren't talking or things aren't going quite right for whatever reason, it's ultimately up to them to correct whatever it is and make things happen.

If a comic on stage isn't doing so well, he or she can't suddenly demand that people laugh more, then say isn't this better than being at home with the boring old ball and chain. If they want to do better, they go back to the drawing board and modify their material, delivery, or whatever they have to in order to get the desired results.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[Bocefish]

Too late to edit, but I posted the following mostly for models who face those long awkward silent times...

https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=16799

It may be a little gimmicky, but could also come in real handy sometimes.

 

[Zoomer]

Imagine this: you’re a rockstar. You’re like fucking BONO…and you eagerly run on stage and rock that shit out, only to realize the audience is just sitting there and staring at you. No fist pumps, no dancing, no singing along or chanting, no lighters in the air…just empty, soul-less faces barely blinking back at you. You’d find it pretty hard to continue being fucking awesome, no? Well, its the same thing for us ladies. As we slip on our sexy lingerie, expertly apply our lipstick, prepare our dildos and set up any games or contests we may have going on, we pump ourselves up for a rockstar performance. We get excited at the thought of logging on cam, and having our audience converse, react and masturbate with such FURY that it makes us feel like we can rule the world….and when tokens are flying at us, it makes us feel so appreciated that I can’t even put it into words. It makes us do better, perform better, BE better camgirls…but when we get zero love from you guys, well frankly…it makes us want to hang up our g-string and go cry into some Ben n Jerrys. Not sexy.

Last time I watched the X Factor auditions there were plenty who thought they were Bono...

I understand wanting to be paid. Who doesn't want to be paid. But you could make the best bacon sandwiches in the world and yet sell none... because you're at a vegetarian health retreat (meaning yes you may indeed be super awesome, but perhaps not to the viewers tastes that day). Damn those veggies DAMN THEM TO HADES for not buying.
Perhaps tastes have changed, perhaps it's like watching Bono perform the same show for the 200th time and you just don't bounce and cheer anymore - you are there because it gives you something to do. Whatever reason, sort of irrelevant.

However, if I stopped getting paid for my job, I'd change my job. That's the way it is for me though.

For clarity, I have model friends who sometime struggle to make a few hundred tokens. I sympathise with their situation massively. For starters, conversation is a two way thing - they do require interaction to stop the room being quiet and I know that frustrates them too if no-one replies - especially since it costs nothing to talk. I understand the frustration. Also understand that with the original post - if someone does read through it, if it makes them think and toss a few tokens into the pot, then all good.

So I guess my point is - diplomacy may be a better way of approaching the subject, and may reap better rewards (though a smaller audience). As it is, I imagine many feel on the back foot and pulling holes in what's being said (like my XFactor throw-away comparison) in a defensive posture, rather than being positively engaged and encouraged to change their ways. My first thought reading through really was "egotistical" - and therefore XFactor-esque - but I also recognised exactly what is being said. Like most I get pissed off no-one talks, but sit there watching for hours. Or suddenly start 'rubbing one out' when a show starts - despite not saying anything until then and still not tipping. But that's how the site works and if it's too much to bare, it is perhaps the wrong site to work.

 

[eclipse76]

I read the responses that one tumblr guy had and it might've made me go on a rant on twitter.

Its incredibly insulting to hear the word "entitled" put to cam models asking to get paid for their work.

I devote my LIFE to my work. There hasn't been a day in the last four years where I didnt do something cam related.
I used to pull 50-60 hours of just live camming. I still try for at least 35 of JUST live. Not to mention the hours upon hours I've spent talking for free to people, advertising, taking free pictures, taking paid pictures, making videos, etc.
I've put thousands of dollars into creating a quality camview. I have a room in my house, a bathroom, and a closet devoted to my work. I've dealt with coming out and blackmail due to the sexual nature of my work.
I've hurt myself camming, I've gotten on when I had the flu, when I've been so sick I couldn't stand, when I had bronchitis for two months I got on every single day.

But yeah, camgirls like us are incredibly entitled for wanting to be paid for all of that and its the easiest job in the world.

I love my job, but its a JOB.

I agree with all of this so much. Since I started a year ago, I've averaged 20-30 hours a week of being on cam, all dressed up, entertaining, etc. But off-cam work brings my total 'work time' to more like 70-80 hours per week, working on graphics/content/website/games/raffles/show plans/etc. I have a dedicated room for camming, tons of equipment (toys, lingerie, etc.), keep up with fans, post a lot on Twitter, maintain my own website... All this while also balancing a relationship, household, taking care of all of the behind-the-scenes financial aspects of camming, and somehow finding time to actually spend time with family and friends. Some days I feel stretched really, really thin, but it's worth it to have such a rewarding career.

Camming is NOT easy money. Only ladies who are brand-new think that they can just show up and get paid, camgirls who are actually successful put soooo much time and effort into this industry that is invisible to the guys, since another aspect of the job is making it seem effortless. We work our asses off to make sure that our viewers are happy and entertained, so logging on and having nobody even take the time to type 'hi' for hours on end is a huge slap in the face.

I understand how all of you feel but I am tired of that argument. "I work 70 hours a week, I pay for make up, dresses, sex toys, marketing, blah blah blah, I should be paid for all of this". You are not salaried employee, you are freelancers. I know tons of people who do freelance work: make-up artist, hairdresser, models, web designers, photographer, artists… they all do that, marketing, paying for their tools, giving up freebies to get known, it's fucking hard too and doesn't always pay up despite all their efforts. Yet I don't hear them saying "I deserve to be paid for all the hard work I have been doing". (I do hear them complaining about amateur being cheaper, "stealing their jobs").
Moreover, the way MFC is designed doesn't help, the supply is extremely high, and each model doesn't offer a significant added value to push people to tip: the model doesn't do what you want, no problem the freeloader just have to click next. They don't care how much effort you've put in this, you're just another random woman nude on the Internet. The people who care are already tipping.

She's got 33.3 THOUSAND twitter followers who are "fans" of her, her own site, etc

I don't think Twitter followers mean anything, I don't know Twitter much but I guess they follow for the daily freebies shots and probably a lot of them do not even bother to go on MFC.

g2g, but still much to say.