Stoya has publicly accused James Deen of rape

[Guy]

Another victim has come forward http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ized-James-Deen-camera-attack-wrap-party.html

 

[missrosexox]

So that's at least seven women, for those not keeping track: Stoya, Tori Lux, Ashley Fires, T.M., Kora Peters, Amber Rayne, Nicki Blue. Plus who knows how many women who haven't talked to the press yet or choose not to go public.

Like, I'm really curious to know exactly how many women saying "James Deen raped/assaulted me" will it take for it to start just being true. 15? 30? And would it make a difference if men were interviewed as witnesses to corroborate women's stories? If so, what's the proof-having ratio of women to men? Like, are 10 women witnesses worth 1 male witness, or is it more like 20 to 1?

 

[eclipse76]

If it comes to light that this did not happen than Deen will be able to continue his life and continue his work, because porn is inherently male-centric, there will be no issue. Fuck, there's plenty of producers who will still work with him despite him being a potential rapist. Stoya, on the other hand, no matter what the outcome, will most likely have more limited job opportunities, etc. because she is a woman in a male-centric industry and unfortunately society is light years away from not chastising those of us who go public with this kind of shit. If everyone kept their mouth shut I 99% guarantee that more and more people would get away with rape and the numbers would rise, because no one would be talking about it.

I disagree with this. On Stoya's end: her career has an actress was already behind her, her future was never there in the first place, her future is her being a producer. No doors will close for her, au contraire, she is a woman, supported by feminists and the industry (who wants desperately to appear clean and respecting models), she has maintained an excellent reputation. The only risks for her is bad money investments.

On Deen's end: even if it was proved it did not happen (v unlikely at that point), his career and reputation is effectively over because no one would believe it. He is a liability now, a big pile of shit no one wants to be associated with anymore. Porn is "inherently male centric"? Excuse me but Deen's popularity was not made by men but by the fact he is liked by young women, there are the ones who used to reblog tons of gifset involved on Tumblr. Problem (for him) is this fanbase is also heavily involved in feminist theory, Deen was promoting/parroting "consent is not negociable" and he was liked for that. Now that the word is out, a lot of people have been removing his gifset.

 

[eclipse76]

Unfortunately, even if everyone who has been raped publicly outed their rapist, statistics err on the side of that not preventing anyone from being raped in the future. Most rapists will most likely not go to prison (it's about 2 out of 100 for rapes reported to authorities that spend even a day in prison, once those 2 are out then they are free to rape again).

No http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/SOO.PDF
For 100 arrested for rape:
48 % of the people are convicted
36% are acquitted.
40% convicted for felony, with an average sentence of 14 years
6% end up with a misdemeanour.

 

[JickyJuly]

No http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/SOO.PDF
For 100 arrested for rape:
48 % of the people are convicted
36% are acquitted.
40% convicted for felony, with an average sentence of 14 years
6% end up with a misdemeanour.

You're posting stats for alleged rapists that actually get arrested. She's talking about rapes that are reported to the police. Completely different pools.

 

[eclipse76]

You're posting stats for alleged rapists that actually get arrested. She's talking about rapes that are reported to the police. Completely different pools.

Why count the average of prison time for people who have not been convicted? It's just manipulating data, it makes it seems that rapists are not being locked up when convicted.

 

[VeronicaChaos]

Why count the average of prison time for people who have not been convicted? It's just manipulating data, it makes it seems that rapists are not being locked up when convicted.

you're missing the point...MOST rapists aren't convicted. smh.

 

[Teagan]

Exactly. Most rapists are never even arrested to begin with let alone brought to trial to face those charges. Thats not manipulating data. That IS the data that was being discussed.

I disagree with this. On Stoya's end: her career has an actress was already behind her, her future was never there in the first place, her future is her being a producer. No doors will close for her, au contraire, she is a woman, supported by feminists and the industry (who wants desperately to appear clean and respecting models), she has maintained an excellent reputation. The only risks for her is bad money investments.

This is also completely naive if you think she will just walk along just fine and have no issues by outing herself as a victim when it comes to work and future opportunities. Either naive or ignorant. Either way educate yourself on it cause that's not how it works and exactly one of the many reasons women DO NOT speak out. Cause it does effect them both in personal relationships AND professional.

 

[JickyJuly]

Why count the average of prison time for people who have not been convicted? It's just manipulating data, it makes it seems that rapists are not being locked up when convicted.

I'm not sure what you're asking, and your bold text definitely doesn't make it any clearer. You attempted to correct what she said, and you compared data that wasn't relevant to what she said. If you want to talk about the data you've posted, cool. Don't include her like she's said something you're disproving when you are not though.

She's talking about people who are accused of rape. You're talking about people who are arrested for rape. You could go to the police right now and say I stole your ten speed. That makes me an accused thief. That doesn't mean it will lead to me being arrested for theft. Different groups. Different numbers.

 

[eclipse76]

Exactly. Most rapists are never even arrested to begin with let alone brought to trial to face those charges. Thats not manipulating data. That IS the data that was being discussed.

All right then, according to doj,

According to victim accounts, 37 percent of the rapes against women that werereported to the police resulted in the rapist being criminally prosecuted. Of the prosecuted rapists, 46.2 percent were convicted of a crime and 76 percent of the convicted rapists were sentenced to jail or prison​

37% of reported case are prosecuted, 0.37×0.46.×0.76 still make 13% of rapists in jail, this is far from 2% will spend time in jail.

This is also completely naive if you think she will just walk along just fine and have no issues by outing herself as a victim when it comes to work and future opportunities. Either naive or ignorant. Either way educate yourself on it cause that's not how it works and exactly one of the many reasons women DO NOT speak out. Cause it does effect them both in personal relationships AND professional.

Except she has the power, she is the producer of her own porn, she is associated with other feminists producers like Joanna Angel iirc, she is the one making the decisions and writing the checks. Also she has heavy popular support with incredible Twitter presence, and reputation is the most important thing for good business. If anyone ever try to blacklist her, she will just need a Tweet to bring suspicion to their company. She is not a no-name 6months-into-the-biz pornstar.

I'm not sure what you're asking, and your bold text definitely doesn't make it any clearer. You attempted to correct what she said, and you compared data that wasn't relevant to what she said. If you want to talk about the data you've posted, cool. Don't include her like she's said something you're disproving when you are not though.

idk where the bold came from. That's still better than a number presented without source and which will discourage more victims to come forward.

 

[gothicfeline]

a man walks in to a room with only 100 women and he is excited. a woman walks in to a room of only 100 men and she will be nervous. this is pretty true and this is why as a guy I am feminist and believe there is a rape culture. james is a rapist that is my belief. his victim MO is woman that challenges him for dominance and his Machismo..

 

[Teagan]

Except she has the power, she is the producer of her own porn, she is associated with other feminists producers like Joanna Angel iirc, she is the one making the decisions and writing the checks. Also she has heavy popular support with incredible Twitter presence, and reputation is the most important thing for good business. If anyone ever try to blacklist her, she will just need a Tweet to bring suspicion to their company. She is not a no-name 6months-into-the-biz pornstar.

Right because lord knows when you have a business nothing can effect whether or not it's a successful one or goes under right? Its just there so it always will be and will make her money and her speaking out will have no effect on it or her. Seriously? Just cause she runs it does not mean she will make money, or people will keep working with her like before, or people will buy from her, and so on. Plus we know victim support usually not only doesnt transfer to money in her pocket but also does not do so long term. People forget and move on. Plus she absolutely alienated a lot of people by doing this. No she is not a no name but she isnt huge either. I didnt even know who the heck she was before all this. She absolutely will be effected by doing this. Again it's why so many women do not speak out and if they do they try to keep their work from finding out too.

 

[mynameisbob84]

37% of reported case are prosecuted, 0.37×0.46.×0.76 still make 13% of rapists in jail, this is far from 2% will spend time in jail.

.

To be fair, it's not all that much better. Even if we accept that the often cited 2% figure is misleading, and put complete faith in the source you quoted, that's still 87 rapists out of every 100 escaping jail time. However you wish to frame that number, it's not at all comforting.

 

[Guy]

a man walks in to a room with only 100 women and he is excited. a woman walks in to a room of only 100 men and she will be nervous. this is pretty true and this is why as a guy I am feminist and believe there is a rape culture. james is a rapist that is my belief. his victim MO is woman that challenges him for dominance and his Machismo..

Rape Culture is very real. Just look @ this ad that Bloomingdale's (owned by Macy's) put in a holiday catalog last month

 

[JickyJuly]

I wonder how Deen's occupation affects the way the general public sees him in all of this... like if the average person sees him as any more or less likely to assault a woman based on what he does for a living? I kind of tried to venture into more comments sections to investigate, but everything I saw was directed at the women.

That's still better than a number presented without source and which will discourage more victims to come forward.

It's interesting how numbers kind of feed into perspectives differently. I didn't find those numbers encouraging at all. I took them to mean that even in cases where a victim has enough evidence for police to arrest the suspect in hopes of convicting in a trial, it's a less than 50/50 shot. Seems like a lot of work for bad odds to me. Kudos to the victims who even try to go that route. It's obviously not an easy win.

 

[LuckySmiles]

From RAINN.ORG

“In the last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend towards blaming “rape culture” for the extensive problem of sexual violence on campuses. While it is helpful to point out the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime,” said the letter to the task force from RAINN’s president, Scott Berkowitz, and vice president for public policy, Rebecca O’Connor.

It reinforces statistics that the majority of rapes are committed by a small minority, meaning serial rapists/repeat offenders. Seeking criminal justice becomes of vital importance to prevent repeat offenses, and makes it easier for perpetrators to serve jail time.

America according to RAINN and the DOJ the rate of rape has decreased by more than half since 1993. Calling America a rape culture demeans women living in places like Afghanistan (being arrested for being raped,murdered for men's honor, being forced into unwanted marriages etc = rape culture)

If anyone is interested This is a moving speech by a woman with experience and statistical facts. She points out the inaccuracy in studies that pertain to rape while calling to improve them, the danger terms like "rape culture" cause for victims, and the importance in having constructive conversations that lead to prosecution of rapists.

 

[Guy]

From RAINN.ORG


It reinforces statistics that the majority of rapes are committed by a small minority, meaning serial rapists/repeat offenders. Seeking criminal justice becomes of vital importance to prevent repeat offenses, and makes it easier for perpetrators to serve jail time.

America according to RAINN and the DOJ the rate of rape has decreased by more than half since 1993. Calling America a rape culture demeans women living in places like Afghanistan (being arrested for being raped,murdered for men's honor, being forced into unwanted marriages etc = rape culture)

If anyone is interested This is a moving speech by a woman with experience and statistical facts. She points out the inaccuracy in studies that pertain to rape while calling to improve them, the danger terms like "rape culture" cause for victims, and the importance in having constructive conversations that lead to prosecution of rapists.

Then how do you explain why Macy's was willing to allow that creepy Bloomingsdale's ad that I posted?

 

[SaffronBurke]

Let's share a story:
When I was 13, I was molested by a friend of my mom's when he lived with us for a summer. It wasn't till 2 years later that I realized that it was even sexual abuse (because the weirdo had me brainwashed into believing that he was in love with me and these were just things I should let him do) and told my mom about it. She took me to the police to report it a couple days later. After collecting a written statement from myself, and my sisters who had witnessed some of it, they told me that there wasn't enough evidence to take it any further and that all they could do was put him on the sex offender list.

Does that mean that people should give him the benefit of the doubt? That they should assume that he's innocent? That I was making it up to get attention?

No. No it does not. This sort of response from the police happens way too often. If there's not enough evidence (apparently my word and two additional witnesses isn't "enough" but whatever), they won't go any further than just collecting a statement. They won't try to go to trial, because the case won't win. Even cases that DO have "enough" evidence to lead to a trial are so circumstantial that it's very difficult to win a case.

Let's share another story!
A friend of mine and her girlfriend stayed in a motel room with a friend of theirs one night. He raped each of them while the other slept. They didn't bother going to the police because, due to the circumstances (trans, gay, homeless, on drugs, in a motel known for prostitution), the police would have brushed them off as sex workers who just got pissed about not getting paid, which was not the situation at all.

Does that mean that I should have been skeptical when she confided in me? Should I have withheld judgment just in case she was wrong and it wasn't rape? Hell no.

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

Just because rape culture may be more prevalent in some countries, doesn't mean it's not still an important issue in others. What the fuck even is that argument? Talking about rape culture in the US, doesn't belittle the atrocities that happen to women in other countries. We're just not talking about that right now.

Seriously, what the fuck? Just because we don't have the worst rape culture in the world, doesn't mean we don't still have rape culture.

 

[Teagan]

Calling America a rape culture demeans women living in places like Afghanistan (being arrested for being raped,murdered for men's honor, being forced into unwanted marriages etc = rape culture)

Right. Calling what we have rape culture demeans how bad that culture is in other areas of the world. How dare it exist at the same time in multiple places on earth. That's just impossible. and scene. Just cause it's not AS bad as some middle eastern countries does not mean it's not still bad alone. That makes no sense. Add to the fact that there it's not just rape culture but culture with tradition as well as religion that compounds the treatment of women there. Its not just rape culture. It's ridiculous to say we cant call it rape culture here just cause it's also there. Never is that true. Its like saying I cant call myself a woman cause one exists in Egypt and it's demeaning to her too. That we both cant exist at once. That's not logical. Same thing with racism. We dont have it the worst so we cant call it racism? No. Just no.

 

[LuckySmiles]

The problem is it causes a self fulfilling prophecy in a place where rape IS taken seriously "I shouldn't bother reporting my rape because I live in a rape culture"

in the case of the ad I don't know, I don't work at the ad agency. Poor misuse of Shock value? it wouldn't be the first time a company did that to try and get attention.

 

[Teagan]

Its not a self fulfilling prophecy when you recognize something exists and name it. Self fulfilling prophecy happens when you know it's there and deny it or do nothing about it. You can ignore the elephant in the corner all you want but it's still there and whether you look at it or not it's still gonna be there. What you do about rape though matters and continuing on like we are in society about it is rape culture. It's not like it's making the problem worse, it's just acknowledging there is one.

 

[JickyJuly]

I don't think "rape culture" means rape isn't taken seriously. I guess it really depends on how we use the term. I think of it as "what is our culture doing that causes SO many people seem to misunderstand what is and isn't consent". It's like trying to look in the mirror and see what can be fixed. The term can be used proactively. It's not a get out of jail free card for criminals. I, personally, feel combating rape culture starts with how we raise and educate children. Since rape is pretty much just extreme disrespect for the bodily autonomy and choices of another human, we can and should teach children about consent way before they learn anything about sex. For my family, that means I never hit my children not even a hit on the hand because that is encroaching in their space bubble inappropriately. I never try to force my kids to give hugs or kisses. I respect their "no" and their choices anytime it's possible (ie they aren't going to do something death defying). We encourage them to ask before hugging or kissing someone other than ourselves. We don't have TV. So, I don't have to worry about media crap too much yet, and I try not to let them watch movies I find out of line. I'm babbling, but I do think it's important to recognize societal flaws and try not to pass all of them on to the next generation.

I do think the term is confusing and maybe something without the word rape would make it easier for people to talk about especially since rape is the extreme end of the spectrum. If we just talked about consent without making it sensational, that would probably be helpful.

 

[LuckySmiles]

OK if you find the part about Afghanistan upsetting, still consider the rest of the post.

 

[Teagan]

Same response. Recognizing we live in a rape culture doesnt make the problem worse. Its still here whether we name it, acknowledge it, or pretend it doesnt exist. It's there. What makes it worse is ignoring it's there and not taking steps to stop it. And it starts with exactly what Jicky is doing. Teaching the next gen of children what is and is not okay to do to someone else. I feel like that along with not judging victims like we do and reporting crimes when we can and are able to are some of the things we can do to help.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

Me right now.

 

[SaffronBurke]

Same response. Recognizing we live in a rape culture doesnt make the problem worse. Its still here whether we name it, acknowledge it, or pretend it doesnt exist. It's there. What makes it worse is ignoring it's there and not taking steps to stop it. And it starts with exactly what Jicky is doing. Teaching the next gen of children what is and is not okay to do to someone else. I feel like that along with not judging victims like we do and reporting crimes when we can and are able to are some of the things we can do to help.

Precisely. My nephew is essentially being collectively raised not just by his mother, but by his aunts as well, and we are all teaching him that "No means no and stop means stop" and that it goes both ways - if he tells us not to tickle him or boop his nose, we listen, and we teach him to do the same. We ask before touching and don't touch if the answer is "no", whether it's a hug and a kiss or a "got your nose!"

We live in a society where children are told that other kids are mean to each other because that's how you show interest in the opposite sex when, no, it absolutely isn't, and teens are often led to believe that "sometimes no means yes" or that if a girl is fighting off a guy's advances, "she's just playing hard to get", when neither is true. This leads to people having absolutely no idea what consent is or looks like, and having a hard time understanding what is and isn't rape because we're led to believe that rape is violent and from strangers, when quite often the opposite is true.

 

[LuckySmiles]

Its not a self fulfilling prophecy when you recognize something exists and name it. Self fulfilling prophecy happens when you know it's there and deny it or do nothing about it. You can ignore the elephant in the corner all you want but it's still there and whether you look at it or not it's still gonna be there. What you do about rape though matters and continuing on like we are in society about it is rape culture. It's not like it's making the problem worse, it's just acknowledging there is one.

Tell me how I'm ignoring a problem while advocating change for how rape is treated? seriously? How am I ignoring it by continuing to try and provoke helpful thoughts in a place where the majority of the people responding to me aren't taking me seriously and treating me as though I'm naive or dumb or misguided. I'm done. I will say this before I'm out of this thread.

Here's my personal problem with rape culture. I'm a short, unintimidating woman who looks young and sounds young when interacting in the world. I'm not physically equipped to fend off men. I also have known many aggressive men in my life including family and friends. The types to own guns, work out once in awhile, play sports, fight wars, fight crime, and generally intimidate anyone by the looks of them. They are also the same people that are the first to defend a woman, beat the crap out of a guy who lays a hand on a woman, and fully raised with the utmost respect for women.

I even lived with two of them in a nonsexual friendship context for a year while camming. We'd even occasionally getting fall down drunk with one another and never once, feared for my personal safety. In fact they were the one's constantly worried when I was home alone for too long. (kind of an isolated area and the house had been previously broken into) And participating in bitchfests with me if some guy I dated was being inconsiderate.

They are actually goofy bastards with full capacity for sensitivity and one was a closet Trekky. Yet they're the same ones under attack with the term “rape culture” and among the first to be called “rapey” just by the looks of them. It isn't right to me. It takes the focus away from the real problems, and makes the good guys, who will be there for women when they need them, look bad.

 

[Magnolia]

Regardless of what your opinion on the matter is can I please ask we stop the personal attacks on one another over OPINION and DISCUSSION. I don't take kindly to us members shit-talking about one another behind each other's backs. Especially when I'm forced into the middle of it for no other reason than the fact that I started this thread.

Thanks.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I think there's a lot of confusion on what "rape culture" actually is.
But many people have explained it very eloquently and I don't think anything more can be explained on the topic. I just don't think it's fully resonating with some people.