The Addictive Qualities of Tipping Camgirls

[ArcticKitty]

I'm gonna be real as a person who struggles with addiction myself too, it's really about him. Plenty of people use these sites in moderation. It's a pretty well known thing that lots of people with addiction struggles try to avoid taking any responsibility, at least early on in treatment and realizing that they have them. This whole thread is more a mental health/ addiction thread imho. I don't see how trying to sell a product is fostering addiction. Although if you give me specific examples of how they "try to foster addiction" I'd be willing to consider them.

I'm not down at the cheese factory complaining because I got 10 extra pounds, and I feel like they forced me into shoving all that cheese down my throat? That's on me. And I don't want to shut down the cheese factory and try to ruin the enjoyment others have of it, because I shoved too much in my face. Hope my stance here makes sense, put bluntly as it is, because I'm busy with other stuff. I think it's great this guy seeks support for his problems, but I think this is an unwise and foolish place to be doing it. Put bluntly.

Oh, I agree that someone is dealing with addiction has to get themselves right in whatever way works for them. And it should be clear that they really have to make it their next goal in life if their addictive behaviour is hurting other people along with them. My comment about the sites is that they are designed with lights and sounds that attract user attention and enhance that dopamine rush. Other features such as "knights" in rooms and special member designations and lounges are of course intended to encourage people to stay on site, as is the feature that presents a list of models apparently similar to recently visited models or regular models currently offline.

Like casinos are designed to not have clocks or windows and to have flashing lights and sparkles and high ringing noises and in a resort complex or on a cruse ship, the casino floor is located so as to be between places where guests want to go. This is just from what I've read, btw; I haven't gambled in a resort or on a cruise.


Add: yes, this thread was started by him to be about him. And I think he is self-absorbed and oblivious as to how it may appear to others. I mentioned earlier today that other people actually made helpful and educational contributions to the thread since early on.

 

[Vixxen81]

Oh, I agree that someone is dealing with addiction has to get themselves right in whatever way works for them. And it should be clear that they really have to make it their next goal in life if their addictive behaviour is hurting other people along with them. My comment about the sites is that they are designed with lights and sounds that attract user attention and enhance that dopamine rush. Other features such as "knights" in rooms and special member designations and lounges are of course intended to encourage people to stay on site, as is the feature that presents a list of models apparently similar to recently visited models or regular models currently offline.

Like casinos are designed to not have clocks or windows and to have flashing lights and sparkles and high ringing noises and in a resort complex or on a cruse ship, the casino floor is located so as to be between places where guests want to go. This is just from what I've read, btw; I haven't gambled in a resort or on a cruise.

Absolutely no one is forced to walk inside that casino and absolutely no one is forced to open an account on a cam site. Knights and moderators were originally meant to be support characters not the main reason to hang around any one room or person. I see the same mods and fan club members in at least 10 rooms. The site didn't make them do that, they choose to be a part of it.

I'm really proud of the fact Chaturbate doesn't give people much incentive to buy tokens or run contests that keep models glued to their cameras.

 

[Maxi]

Gamification certainly encourages addiction. From an online perspective, I’m sure the websites have taken a close look at gambling sites and what has/hasn’t worked there.

The use a member level system(s) are a very base example of that.

 

[MarieElise]

Yeah I’m not really buying the fostering addiction part, that’s a stretch to me. But I’ll also concede I only have buyer accounts on a few sites. I think that’s just marketing.

I’ve spent tons of time in casinos. That stuff doesn’t work on me. Yeah maybe it’s an effort but I think it’s weak, and a total stretch. To me that’s just marketing and trying to sell a service or product. Unless I see a specific compelling example of this, I’m probably not gonna change my mind. The examples given so far, don’t cross that line imho. Men like women and love these services People market products.

The examples given, that I’m reading so far, are just basic marketing psychology, and I wouldn’t classify that as fostering addiction. Too much of a leap for me there.

 

[Vixxen81]

Yeah I’m not really buying the fostering addiction part, that’s a stretch to me. But I’ll also concede I only have buyer accounts on a few sites. I think that’s just marketing.

I’ve spent tons of time in casinos. That stuff doesn’t work on me. Yeah maybe it’s an effort but I think it’s weak, and a total stretch. To me that’s just marketing and trying to sell a service or product. Unless I see a specific compelling example of this, I’m probably not gonna change my mind. The examples given so far, don’t cross that line imho. Men like women and love these services People market products.

What I’m reading so far is just basic marketing psychology and I wouldn’t classify that as fostering addiction. Too much of a leap for me there.

This!!!! If it was straight tipping and no other fun stuff it would be dreadfully boring. Fan club, moderators/knights, tokens, private shows are all different ways to contribute in a way a member can afford.

Now I will cop that we used to really put members up against each other when it came to leaderboards and the tippers responded by tipping in rooms without that pressure. That came from the models, not the site features.

 

[MarieElise]

This!!!! If it was straight tipping and no other fun stuff it would be dreadfully boring. Fan club, moderators/knights, tokens, private shows are all different ways to contribute in a way a member can afford.

Now I will cop that we used to really put members up against each other when it came to leaderboards and the tippers responded by tipping in rooms without that pressure. That came from the models, not the site features.

I see life as basically a big marketplace where we do business and support good services and products. I don’t approach life from a stance where I regret spending money on quality services or products, and get resentful over it. That’s my worldview. But I know many people don’t share that at all and want to Nickle and dime everywhere. And see any money spent as a bad thing.

Sure it’s annoying when you overspend and get duped or when trickery happens. But overall engaging in the economy is a positive thing to me. So maybe that worldview is influencing my thinking here, but I do think “fostering addiction” is a huge stretch. As a patron and a model.

 

[Maxi]

Let me respectfully double-back and rephrase that… gamification can encourage addition.

There are loads of fun incentives on the platform I use to make the experience a more entertaining one.

Personally I couldn’t care less what level or I am, nor am I interested in playing Battleships with other members, but I can certainly see how those are additions that make the whole experience a more interesting one for others

 

[MarieElise]

Let me respectfully double-back and rephrase that… gamification can encourage addition

What about subtraction and long division too? Lol, just pulling your leg because I like you. I see what you’re saying here. Helpful.

It’s a tough one. Because what might encourage addiction in one person, might just be harmless fun and games for another.

Are the marketers really intending to target vulnerable individuals? I would argue; only if they are inexperienced, unethical and stupid. However, I can’t answer that definitively, but I’d like to assume no. Which might just be another instance of Hanlons razor in play tbh. From my experience as a model, the patrons struggling with addiction, tend to try to get as much as possible for the littlest amount of money. I block them all the time, to do both themselves, the rest of the room, and myself a favor. They become compulsive, annoying and waste a ton of time real quick. Wasted server space. Not a smart demographic to go after in the long run. Unless you want to end up burned out and broke.

 

[Vixxen81]

What about subtraction and long division too? Lol, just pulling your leg because I like you. I see what you’re saying here. Helpful.

It’s a tough one. Because what might encourage addiction in one person, might just be harmless fun and games for another.

Are the marketers really intending to target vulnerable individuals? I can’t answer that but I’m gonna assume no, because from my experience as a model, the patrons struggling with addiction tend to try to get as much as possible for the littlest amount of money. I block them all the time, to do both themselves, the results of the room, and myself a favor. They become compulsive, annoying and waste a ton of time real quick.

And they have to stay competitive with the other sites.

 

[Maxi]

let me rephrase that (again) gamification can encourage addiction.

I’m definitely not knocking the platforms - they have to do all they can to keep fun, relevant and encourage members to keep coming back. I think we’re all the same page here, just coming across at different angles well, me anyway!

 

[MarieElise]

What about gumification? Lol. Sorry I’m in a ridiculous mood today. I’ll can it on the slapstick, everyone here hates it except me

 

[Maxi]

All I want to know is… what’s everyone having for dinner…?!

 

[Smoothie]

I tend to agree with @MarieElise on this. I think the things a cam site does that trigger an addict’s addictive behaviors could be seen as mere marketing tactics by a member who isn’t addicted.

Cam sites have a right to do what they can to increase profits from their customer base. Unfortunately, the same benefits, tactics etc. that grow business from non-addicted folks could be a harmful trigger to an addict. But how is CB supposed to know who is who? A bartender might be able to spot a patron with a problem. It’s not so easy on a cam site.

 

[Vixxen81]

I tend to agree with @MarieElise on this. I think the things a cam site does that trigger an addict’s addictive behaviors could be seen as mere marketing tactics by a member who isn’t addicted.

Cam sites have a right to do what they can to increase profits from their customer base. Unfortunately, the same benefits, tactics etc. that grow business from non-addicted folks could be a harmful trigger to an addict. But how is CB supposed to know who is who? A bartender might be able to spot a patron with a problem. It’s not so easy on a cam site.

It's also not the bartender's job to tell them have to quit, merely their responsibility to say "okay that's enough, you're cut off." Chaturbate has a maximum transaction allowance per day. Want more? Send a copy of your CC to their finance department so they can verify your limit and you get more. Most people skip that last step.

 

[MarieElise]

I think I’m gonna try chicken in the air fryer tonight all that joking about chicken nuggets in the other thread got me excited. I tried a frozen salmon burger in there, and it was perfect. But then I tried 2 “mystery” burgers in there (that I found in a random ziplock in the freezer), and they came out like burnt rubber. Not even sure what they started out as tbh though. Possibly beef, possibly not No one in the whole house remembers or knows where they came from, or when they were even put in there.

 

[Smoothie]

I think I’m gonna try chicken in the air fryer tonight all that joking about chicken nuggets in the other thread got me excited. I tried a frozen salmon burger in there, and it was perfect. But then I tried 2 “mystery” burgers in there (that I found in a random ziplock in the freezer), and they came out like burnt rubber. Not even sure what they started out as tbh though. Possibly beef, possibly not No one in the whole house remembers or knows where they came from, or when they were even put in there.

I love my air fryer, but I have to say my favorite small kitchen appliance might be my steamer. So simple. Just add water, add the veggies (or whatever else) you want to steam, set the timer and let it go. Plus it frees up space on the range for cooking other stuff in the meantime.

 

[MarieElise]

Tried refried beans, cheese and tortillas in there today. They came out great! I highly recommend trying if you like burritos at all! 4 mins at like 350 or something. Although we experimented with different times and temperatures. I liked them best 7 mins at 365. Those were more like chimichangas though.

 

[ArcticKitty]

I would be very surprised if the sites didn't profile heavy users and direct their marketing efforts toward targeting them from early on. That seems like just common sense to me. Re the enticements to encourage people to log in and stay on and stimulate impulsive actions - gamification (thank you, @Maxi_P ). Facebook does it. So does Robinhood, the stock brokerage firm.

 

[ArcticKitty]

I made grilled cheese sandwiches and a salad for dinner. Crispy in a frying pan with the bread burned on one side before turning it over

 

[MarieElise]

Heavy paying users are not the same as addicted users, that's what I'm trying to say here. But I'm also kinda done with this discussion. Feels like another instance where you'd have to actually experience things from the models side to really 'get it". And I know how pointless trying to get some people here to understand that reality is lol. Frankly, I think you are wrong, and making a ton of assumptions, plus way oversimplifying/ conflating things. But I take my leave. I don't get paid for this.

Marketing to people who enjoy and use a service shouldn't be a bad thing, because like 2% find it triggering of their personal addiction struggles. I really think that this is a little tinfoil hat.
And potentially feeds into a total victim mentality.

But I take my leave saying your argument just hasn't been sound or strong enough to convince me of your point in the slightest. And isn't making a ton of sense at this point.

 

[ArcticKitty]

I tend to agree with @MarieElise on this. I think the things a cam site does that trigger an addict’s addictive behaviors could be seen as mere marketing tactics by a member who isn’t addicted.

Cam sites have a right to do what they can to increase profits from their customer base. Unfortunately, the same benefits, tactics etc. that grow business from non-addicted folks could be a harmful trigger to an addict. But how is CB supposed to know who is who? A bartender might be able to spot a patron with a problem. It’s not so easy on a cam site.

Look, I didn't say the sites were Creating addicts. I don't say that they are brainwashing people or coercing anyone. People go to a site because they want to. I'm not saying any different as far as that goes.

As for spotting people with a problem, I don't think it's difficult to run algos to analyse patterns. Humans in a room can spot someone with a problem intuitively.

 

[ArcticKitty]

Heavy paying users are not the same as addicted users, that's what I'm trying to say here. But I'm also kinda done with this discussion. Feels like another instance where you'd have to actually experience things from the models side to really 'get it". And I know how pointless trying to get some people here to understand that reality is lol. Frankly, I think you are wrong, and making a ton of assumptions, plus way oversimplifying/ conflating things. But I take my leave. I don't get paid for this.

Marketing to people who enjoy and use a service shouldn't be a bad thing, because like 2% find it triggering of their personal addiction struggles. I really think that this is a little tinfoil hat.
And potentially feeds into a total victim mentality.

But I take my leave saying your argument just hasn't been sound or strong enough to convince me of your point in the slightest. And isn't making a ton of sense at this point.

*sigh* I think maybe our disagreement is about choice of works more than anything. In any event, I'm happy to let it go.

 

[Marceline]

I think that’s just marketing.

10000% agree. I think it’s ridiculous to say that camsites are basically fostering cam site addictions.

Example: Say I’m addicted to shopping. I spend all my extra money buying clothes and random stuff online, sometimes even spending more than my budget and not being able to pay bills because of it. I spend tons of time browsing sites online, looking at the next thing I want to buy.

If the sites I purchase items on run sales, does that mean they’re fostering my addiction? Absolutely not. They’re just trying to increase their profit margins, like every single business does.

There’s a plethora of different examples I can give, because ultimately, anything that gives you a dopamine rush can become an addiction. But each example would have the same exact message, it’s not the business who is fostering the addictions. It’s the people who have the addiction who is fostering it by not receiving help or trying to get better. Mental health is the responsibility of the individual.

I don't think it's difficult to run algos to analyse patterns.

This would be an awful idea. Not just for the camsites, but for users and models as well. Like @MarieElise said:

Heavy paying users are not the same as addicted users

An algorithm wouldn’t be able to tell the difference, because how could an algorithm know someone’s personal financial situation? There’s men who can go on camsites every night and tip hundreds or even thousands of dollars, and it’s not negatively affecting their life because that money is disposable income to them and they’re just treating camsites as a fun way to wind down for the night, like how some people play video games every night before bed to wind down. And then there’s guys who spend more than they can afford and don’t go on every night, but do have a problem. How can an algorithm tell the difference between those two?

 

[MarieElise]

Huge part of addiction Tx is working on identifying, avoiding, and having a plan for triggers.

Not expecting the trigger itself to disappear, or for the trigger to work around you.

Glad dopamine got brought up because dopamine shifts occur from eating, orgasms (in females anyways not sure about males), smelling cookies... pretty much anything. So you could literally argue that all and any marketing of pretty much anything on this planet "fosters addiction". Because people who struggle w addiction have sensitized dopamine pathways and sensitized or built upon (can't remember the specific neurobiology right now) dopamine reward pathways.

It's so hard for me to shift focus from this topic because it interests me SO much. Can't wait to get back on ADHD meds!!
Lol... speaking of dopamine anyways.

 

[RuthStrawberryblonde]

Huge part of addiction Tx is working on identifying, avoiding, and having a plan for triggers.

Not expecting the trigger itself to disappear, or for the trigger to work around you.

Glad dopamine got brought up because dopamine shifts occur from eating, orgasms (in females anyways not sure about males), smelling cookies... pretty much anything. So you could literally argue that all and any marketing of pretty much anything on this planet "fosters addiction". Because people who struggle w addiction have sensitized dopamine pathways and sensitized or built upon (can't remember the specific neurobiology right now) dopamine reward pathways.

It's so hard for me to shift focus from this topic because it interests me SO much. Can't wait to get back on ADHD meds!!
Lol... speaking of dopamine anyways.

As I understand addiction once the pathways are there they are always there waiting to start where the addiciton left off. I believe in susceptibility to other addictions I gamble in a very controlled way (direct debit for lottery left in the back ground funding charities), I avoid any habit forming drugs apart from caffeine - I use decade ground a lot. Thankfully I could relatively easily put down recreational drugs, but when I used them I was the one always seeking more. I was once prescribed an opiod painkiller, ended up putting them in a large skip bin (I know that is not the correct say to dispose but I had to get them out of my reach).

AA have a saying 'If you sit in a hairdressers long enough, you will get a hair cut', AA didn't get me sober after trying everything I broke the alcohol addiction using an endorphin blocking medication, but I have taken a lot from AA and occasionally attend their meetings when appropriate.

 

[misterical]

Let me respectfully double-back and rephrase that… gamification can encourage addition.

There are loads of fun incentives on the platform I use to make the experience a more entertaining one.

Personally I couldn’t care less what level or I am, nor am I interested in playing Battleships with other members, but I can certainly see how those are additions that make the whole experience a more interesting one for others

Gamification is certainly present in Cam Site design and it's entirely there to make you spend money. However, it is also present on thousands of other websites and services which aren't cam sites, and people don't lose control there. Therefore an early conclusion that you could draw is that horny men don't make good decisions (quelle surprise!!!). That's on the horny man, not on the site or the model.

Personally, I'm fine with all of that stuff. What really annoys me are the dark patterns employed by the likes of Amazon. Have you ever tried cancelling a subscription service with them? You go through about 10 different pages with a variety of "Are you sure?" questions. In each case, the "Stay with us" button is designed to be more visually prominent than the "Continue with cancellation" button. It serves to retain their income based on confusion. Nobody is confused about how cam sites work.

 

[Maxi]

Gamification is certainly present in Cam Site design and it's entirely there to make you spend money. However, it is also present on thousands of other websites and services which aren't cam sites, and people don't lose control there. Therefore an early conclusion that you could draw is that horny men don't make good decisions (quelle surprise!!!). That's on the horny man, not on the site or the model.

Personally, I'm fine with all of that stuff. What really annoys me are the dark patterns employed by the likes of Amazon. Have you ever tried cancelling a subscription service with them? You go through about 10 different pages with a variety of "Are you sure?" questions. In each case, the "Stay with us" button is designed to be more visually prominent than the "Continue with cancellation" button. It serves to retain their income based on confusion. Nobody is confused about how cam sites work.

No, I agree. I suppose when I was thinking about gamification and addiction I was focussed on gambling sites and then wondered how the practice could affect users on cam sites.

if someone has an addictive personality then they’re going to be more susceptible to becoming addicted than others despite all the fun whizz bang features of any website.

 

[RuthStrawberryblonde]

Gamification is certainly present in Cam Site design and it's entirely there to make you spend money. However, it is also present on thousands of other websites and services which aren't cam sites, and people don't lose control there. Therefore an early conclusion that you could draw is that horny men don't make good decisions (quelle surprise!!!). That's on the horny man, not on the site or the model.

Personally, I'm fine with all of that stuff. What really annoys me are the dark patterns employed by the likes of Amazon. Have you ever tried cancelling a subscription service with them? You go through about 10 different pages with a variety of "Are you sure?" questions. In each case, the "Stay with us" button is designed to be more visually prominent than the "Continue with cancellation" button. It serves to retain their income based on confusion. Nobody is confused about how cam sites work.

Or the way they make it seem you have to select Prime to proceed with your order, Prime is the default.

 

[NerdyZoey]

There's an entire subforum dedicated to this type of thing, but I didn't post there because I didn't find my problems to be that severe.

Yup and again it’s a mental health issue that most do not have… no problem with people who have addiction issues just go get yourself help. Posting here doesn’t really qualify

 

[Deleted member 72761]

Yup and again it’s a mental health issue that most do not have… no problem with people who have addiction issues just go get yourself help. Posting here doesn’t really qualify

I didn't post here to seek help.