The Glamorization of Murder

[justjoinedtopost]

With a little bit of money, you can buy anything, including a long list of drugs and other items or services the government says you shouldn't have. I'm not entirely sure what your point is?

Oh I'm sorry. I said with a little bit of money, you could buy a firearm.
You said "Well and a background check."
Are you saying that a background check is required by law to sell a firearm?

You are well aware what my point is.

 

[Behemoth]

Oh I'm sorry. I said with a little bit of money, you could buy a firearm.
You said "Well and a background check."
Are you saying that a background check is required by law to sell a firearm?

You are well aware what my point is.

A background check is required to buy a firearm from a store or any dealer. From a private individual? No, but nor is it legal to purchase or sell a gun to a person who is not allowed to own one. If your point is 'damn those people, engaging in free commerce without government oversight,' than yes, I got your meaning.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Are you saying that a background check is required by law to sell a firearm?

No

Ty.

 

[bud9752]

Damn , I've owned firearms for over 40 years and haven't shot/killed anyone , does this mean i must go out and shoot about a 1000 people to catch up to all the hyperbole being put out by the gun-grabber faction ?

 

[Behemoth]

Ty.

I honestly think being disingenuous is your default state at this point.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Guns! The new drinking game where you take a shot everytime an analogy is used!

... And I'm already drunk. Damn

 

[SaffronBurke]

Guns! The new drinking game where you take a shot everytime an analogy is used!

... And I'm already drunk. Damn

Time for alcohol poisoning!

 

[Behemoth]

Guns! The new drinking game where you take a shot everytime an analogy is used!

... And I'm already drunk. Damn

Honestly, when you think about it, politics without analogies would be hard as hell to pull off. Like, that's actually its own interesting game: attempt to make a political argument without any analogies.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Guns! The new drinking game where you take a shot everytime an analogy is used!

... And I'm already drunk. Damn

Read a book instead. Want some recommendations?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Damn , I've owned firearms for over 40 years and haven't shot/killed anyone , does this mean i must go out and shoot about a 1000 people to catch up to all the hyperbole being put out by the gun-grabber faction ?

I knew a guy, got out of prison, within a couple of weeks he was proudly showing me his newly purchased Taurus, wanting my opinion on whether or not he got a good deal lol.

He wound up getting sent back to prison within a couple months (non gun related). He didn't shoot anybody either.

There is an abundance of hyperbole on both sides of this argument. I wish everyone would just stick to anecdotes for a while.

 

[Behemoth]

I knew a guy, got out of prison, within a couple of weeks he was proudly showing me his newly purchased Taurus, wanting my opinion on whether or not he got a good deal lol.

He wound up getting sent back to prison within a couple months (non gun related). He didn't shoot anybody either.

There is an abundance of hyperbole on both sides of this argument. I wish everyone would just stick to anecdotes for a while.

So, tell me, how would you actually eliminate situations like this? Like, what is your actual idea for somehow eliminating illegal gun purchase and illegal guns this way?

 

[n_i_c_u]

I thought this was interesting given the videos of non-experts shooting in this thread:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article86299937.html

Obviously this guy is not an expert rifleman...or maybe the situation got the best of him and he couldn't act like he did at the shooting range. I'm gonna guess he got the gun legally from a dealer. A big part of me wonders why no one in the crowd that dispersed was "packing" in order to be the hero with conceal and carry (I know that I would of if I owned a gun and was there--LOLLL I would have shit myself while running away ).

It is a 2014 video but I have to ask: WTF is up with people in Florida with attacking people in public places? Why is there a crazy element there? Kinda reminds me of all the serial killers in California in the 70's (which I can't explain either).

 

[Behemoth]

A big part of me wonders why no one in the crowd that dispersed was "packing" in order to be the hero with conceal and carry (I know that I would of if I owned a gun and was there--LOLLL I would have shit myself while running away

Because it was at a Bar.

Pursuant to Section 790.06(12)(a), Florida Statutes, a weapon may not be carried concealed at "any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose."

It took me longer to format this message than find out this information.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

So, tell me, how would you actually eliminate situations like this? Like, what is your actual idea for somehow eliminating illegal gun purchase and illegal guns this way?

I don't think you can eliminate situations like this.

 

[jujoji]

Because it was at a Bar.

Pursuant to Section 790.06(12)(a), Florida Statutes, a weapon may not be carried concealed at "any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose."

It took me longer to format this message than find out this information.

Yeah, to understand the level of WTF, it's illegal for a concealed carry weapon licensee to walk through to the bar portion of a place like Chili's or Applebees to go to the bathroom if they are concealed carrying. You have to walk around

 

[Behemoth]

I don't think you can eliminate situations like this.

Allow me to clarify: what gun control do you want, and why do you think it would work? I'll shelve the authority question for now.

Yeah, to understand the level of WTF, it's illegal for a concealed carry weapon licensee to walk through to the bar portion of a place like Chili's or Applebees to go to the bathroom if they are concealed carrying. You have to walk around

Yeah, gun laws pretty regularly make no sense. Its silly.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Allow me to clarify: what gun control do you want, and why do you think it would work?

Let's have guns declared a controlled substance.

We'll have to sit back and see how it works.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Let's have guns declared a controlled substance.

We'll have to sit back and see how it works.

Or you know, at least make it as hard to get a gun as it is to get an abortion.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Or you know, at least make it as hard to get a gun as it is to get an abortion.

Yes. Abortions and drugs make Jesus cry. And so do guns.

 

[Behemoth]

Let's have guns declared a controlled substance.

We'll have to sit back and see how it works.

So... let me get this straight. The drug war has been massively destructive on society, with no benefit, and you want to copy this... for guns?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

So... let me get this straight. The drug war has been massively destructive on society, with no benefit, and you want to copy this... for guns?

That is correct.

 

[EspiKvlt]

Oh good, I can't wait for even more black men to be sent to prison and our prisons to become even more overpopulated.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Oh good, I can't wait for even more black men to be sent to prison and our prisons to become even more overpopulated.

Unfortunate, but that's the price we must pay for liberty and freedom.

 

[n_i_c_u]

Because it was at a Bar.

Yeah I get it. Around here a few years back, the police chief (or maybe it was the mayor) asked people to leave their guns at home because there were instances where a suburbanite would leave their weapon in their car when they parked in the city to see a game at the stadium. What the suburbanite didn't realize is that their car would get broken in to and the stolen guns would end up on the streets. It was bad enough that it warranted a public declaration.

I just kind of figured some guy or girl in that crowd that dispersed would have had a weapon in their vehicle they could have used (but it was pretty chaotic and I'm sure survival trumps all).

(I'm not much of an argument kind of guy, but, just more learning)

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Let's compare apples with apples.

Among OECD countries, the murder rate U.S.A is second only to Mexico, with only Estonia coming close.

Gun crime is more prevalent in the US than other rich, peer countries. This is a fact. Developed countries with more guns tend to have more homicides. This is a fact.

Again we begin with arbitrary distinctions. 'rich, peer countries.' What constitutes a rich, peer country? Are all other factors equal between these countries?

The Mistake of Only Comparing US Murder Rates to "Developed" Countries

https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-comparing-us-murder-rates-developed-countries

Long article. But it explains the selective bias involved in comparing gun involved shootings to other countries. Even goes into state by state comparison. Too many charts to copy/paste here.

 

[Influenced]

There's no evidence of that. In fact recent studies between aggressiveness and violent media imagery and video games have shown no link at all.

There is sooo much debate on this its not even funny. http://videogames.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=1608 According to procon.org this was updated in May of this year. Tons of research and studies going on about this and debates and studies that support both sides, I would argue that they do have SOME link, but only in risk factors. How substantial that link is from person to person in my opinion is the real debate. In the end though it all comes down to each individual person regarding this and the risk factors associated with it. I will not flat out say that violent media imagery and violent video games are going to cause someone to go out and kill someone. Hell, my mother wouldn't let me play pac man when I was a kid because she thought it was to violent, the horror! A yellow circle chomping up ghosties might turn her Kid into a killer! To many factors involved for me to just sit here and say no link at all resides, I see the points made on both sides of the debate, articles and studies alike as well.

 

[Influenced]

Hey, Justjoinedtopost Pac-man is serious business.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

There is sooo much debate on this its not even funny. http://videogames.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=1608 According to procon.org this was updated in May of this year. Tons of research and studies going on about this and debates and studies that support both sides, I would argue that they do have SOME link, but only in risk factors. How substantial that link is from person to person in my opinion is the real debate. In the end though it all comes down to each individual person regarding this and the risk factors associated with it. I will not flat out say that violent media imagery and violent video games are going to cause someone to go out and kill someone.

I agree with you there. Haven't really played any of those games over the last few years, but I played a lot of the Ghost Recon/Rainbow 6 games. I can't really say they gave me homicidal thoughts.

On the other hand, there was one little juvenile delinquent who spent way way too much time playing such games with his friend who live next door. He was failing at school, so his mother took the Xbox away. She got to looking on his phone and found a bunch of back and forth text messages between him and his friend talking about getting of a gun and "dealing" with her. I wonder if the violent games had any influence on that episode.

Moot, I suppose, since the situation passed without anybody getting shot.

Hell, my mother wouldn't let me play pac man when I was a kid because she thought it was to violent, the horror! A yellow circle chomping up ghosties might turn her Kid into a killer! To many factors involved for me to just sit here and say no link at all resides, I see the points made on both sides of the debate, articles and studies alike as well.

Hey, Justjoinedtopost Pac-man is serious business.

Well that's just silly. Pacman shouldn't be avoided because of it's violent nature. It should be avoided because computers are the Mark of the Beast.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Here's a test. Tell me what the functional difference is between these two firearms:

Here's another fun one to show how arbitrary it all is.

Which of these should have laws enacted to ban people from owning?

Spoiler: This scary looking, and reasonably priced I might add, tactical assault weapon...

Spoiler: or this sexy little pink defender of ladies everywhere.

Spoiler: Okay, choice made?

Yeah, the keen-eyed may have figured out the fun part is, they're both the same handgun.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Here's another fun one to show how arbitrary it all is.

Which of these should have laws enacted to ban people from owning?

Spoiler: This scary looking, and reasonably priced I might add, tactical assault weapon...

Spoiler: or this sexy little pink defender of ladies everywhere.

Spoiler: Okay, choice made?

Yeah, the keen-eyed may have figured out the fun part is, they're both the same handgun.

Both, on the grounds that they are hideously tacky looking.
No reason you can't get your mistletoe out of the tree and look fashionable.