Time to really stir things up!

[dilligaf0]

I've read several threads involving the same issues under different circumstances.

Here we go:

Where does someone's right to say something offensive end and my right not to hear their offensive statement begin?

EXAMPLE: What can you do if Westboro Baptist Church decides to protest at the funeral of one of your loved ones? How would you react?
This also includes recent debates about flags, Nazis, politicians and such.

Where are the boundaries (if any exist)?

Does anyone have the ability to observe the rights and senses of others, or is it just a free-for-all?

 

[Puffin]

Comedian Steve Hughes explains about being offended.

 

[dilligaf0]

Comedian Steve Hughes explains about being offended.

Sadly, it seems so many people resort to violence to resolve their issue.
Does malicious intent make a difference?

 

[Ambers Troll]

I usually place the line somewhere around vilification, libel/ slander, and bullying.

 

[Snowie1969]

discrimination on almost any ground is a limit to me: it can be race, gender, sexual preference, wealth or poverty etc. We are all humans, all equal, and no one has the right to exclude another person from having the same rights and we should all be treated equally in court.

 

[Messalina]

It's always about the context. I think anyone can say anything, until they're not serious. Even jokes about/on funeral. Most people wouldn't want their funeral to be full of crying people. I don't.

 

[SoTxBob]

I'm a non violent person unless it comes to family. You attack them, you're hamburger. Otherwise, the good ol 'sticks n stones' has always been my motto. WBC is one of the most vile and disrespectful "organizations" out there, but they still have the right to do as they see fit until they get too close. But heh, that's what pepper spray is for shot upwind from them. While 'respect' is a good thing, people tend to use that word [as they do many others], as a catch all for them being hyper sensitive and over the top PC to where you can't even look at someone. That's absurdity. If you don't have a good grasp of reality and you are constantly looking for something to point at and cry about, you will hate me. I've got thick skin and seldom care what anyone else thinks.... ESPECIALLY the PC crowd.
did that answer the question?



found this lil sign the other day. It seems to fit these days.

 

[Chamaeleon]

Sadly, freedom of speech has gotten to mean freedom to say anything, anywhere. I miss basic consideration for others.

I also miss the days when the definition of being offended did not include just not liking something someone said and then saying you were offended. Such as being offended by the name, Washington Redskins, and you're not a native American.

 

[dilligaf0]

Sadly, freedom of speech has gotten to mean freedom to say anything, anywhere. I miss basic consideration for others.

Why have we gotten to that point?
Do "we" want the attention or just don't give a damn about others and any hard times they may be having?
Has our society become that self-centered?

 

[Messalina]

Comedian Steve Hughes explains about being offended.

"You were great, baby. I've made you a pot!"

 

[WildFingers]

I think this is along the lines of your question Dill, if not sorry. for derailing your thread. 30 - 40 years ago there were words that were used that now cause the fires from hell to be stoked, everything stops, finger pointing begins, along with protests, riots, and killings etc.

Here is an example what appeared on NBC in 1975 on SNL.


Now we have entertainment companies condemning anyone whomever used such a word. By removing the offender from their record books, remove them from their Hall of Fame, erase any mention of this person.

WTF people? Since words were used when it was acceptable (though not nice) still acceptable in society back 40 years ago.

You can not hold today's standard to something that occurred prior when standards were different. (All because someone is offended)

Do we need to remove the history of the US's Presidents who have all used the n-word? Do we need to wipe the history books clean of all mentions of presidents who owned slaves and slavery is no longer acceptable in society today?

The Romans sent Christians to the coliseum to meet their fate at the hands of gladiators or lions for sport. Do we now erase the mention of the emperors of Rome of the entire Roman Empire since their standards are not the norm for today?

This shit is gotta stop. It isn't making anything better it is making things worse. My 2 cents i hope you can make sense out of my ramblings.

Oh, and I hope I didn't offend anyone.

 

[dilligaf0]

WTF people? Since words were used when it was acceptable (though not nice) still acceptable in society back 40 years ago.

But don't you think that 40 years ago, people did observe more discretion in how they talked to / treated other people?
Now it seems the goal is to be as offensive and shocking as possible just to piss someone off.

 

[WildFingers]

Absolutely. There was more respect for one another. When an authority figure asked you to do something you did it without a confrontation.

Today, we are blessed to watch 17 yr old kids getting pulled over and mouthing off about their rights via their phone's digital recordings. I am tired of watching this stuff.

Pointing a pellet gun at a cop WTF people?
A kid goes into a movie theater and goes on a shooting spree.
A student goes into an auditorium and shoots 10 to15 people then swallows his gun an pulls the trigger. Swallow the gun first, why place his misery on innocent students and their families?
The new Right's indoctrinated and given to us by the media of the Right to Riot and The Right to Pillage. The right to burn your own neighborhood and businesses down, because your mad and you are not gonna take it anymore?
Suburban kids born with a silver, no gold or even platinum spoon in their mouth, going to join ISIS and come back and destroy everything that their parents have done to better the lives of their children. Jihad?
This world is fucked up.
Bring back the Hippies of Peace and Love.

 

[dilligaf0]

Pointing a pellet gun at a cop WTF people?

But our generation didn't have people calling the cops on us if they saw us with a "gun".
They weren't so common that everyone assumed they were real.
Our parents also disciplined us if we ever pointed a bb / pellet / air gun at anyone.

 

[Lady_Sebilla]

Bring back the Hippies of Peace and Love.

Hippies didn't appear from vacuum. They resulted as an answer to even bigger violence. And they're never coming back. But you can start another, hippie-like movement, though if you want it to be a success, you need something really new and unusual.

 

[dilligaf0]

Hippies didn't appear from vacuum. They resulted as an answer to even bigger violence. And they're never coming back. But you can start another, hippie-like movement, though if you want it to be a success, you need something really new and unusual.

Why do we need something new? We still have discrimination, war, persecution and dishonest politics...same as the 60's.

 

[DeezNA]

The "hippie movement", in pretty much all respects, failed for what it's general intent was. So did the "Occupy movement" - a sad attempt to reignite that flame against... well... the people who built and their staging venues and made their food/water/cell phones/social media/etc. If we want to bring this concept of disorganized complaining about why things aren't fair without any coherent or feasible plan of implementation back from the dead, go for it. It's always an option - rally up and march on Washington. Nothing will come of it but another media blitz until they get bored and find another ambulance to chase. Then everyone goes home after a week feeling like their voice was heard and can sleep for another week until they get back online and find something else to get stirred up about.

Everyone is outraged by media blasted into their voluntarily open channels of communication that they can close at any time. Get off the fucking news sites. Get away from the drama. There's a massive difference between "being informed" and "being bombarded by media shock and awe" because that's what media sites have to resort to in order to stay in business since no one checks the fucking news anymore. Everyone goes to Reddit or Buzzfeed or Facebook or Twitter or whatever for news now; the primary reason even legitimate news is covering every local shooting, every tragedy, is for $$$ to keep the company alive. This wasn't an issue 40-50 years ago because there wasn't constant news coverage everywhere you look of every bad thing that was happening nationwide, not because these events weren't happening.

That whole 50's mentality in the US, general common courtesy and politeness, suit and hat, etc. rebounding from the aftermath of WWII wasn't as all-encompassing as the media portrays and was broken down throughout the 60-70's by the Hippie movement for similar purposes to what we are discussing here: freedom of expression, freedom of speech, not being restricted by social "rules"... also equal rights... there was that. Now we want to reverse it back to a Norman Rockwell painting of people being polite because, well... hindsight is 20-20, but things were not all sunshine and rainbows back then either. The Boston Strangler, Zodiac Killer, just to name a few; add in severe inequality in race and gender roles/acceptance and utter sexual repression/oppression... not all sunshine and rainbows.

Horrific events have been happening since the dawn of man and will continue. There is no such thing as the "good old days", there was simply less media coverage and sensationalism, and subsequently less public panic and outrage on a mass scale. Reigniting a hippie movement (there were significant protests for both Gulf Wars and the conflict in Afghanistan, no wave of peace and love came from that), while having good intentions, is pretty much as good as going on a nice camping trip... actually the camping trip would be a lot more peaceful and likely smell a lot better. I should know, I live in the far North where all the draft-dodgers from 'Nam decided to settle down, try to start communes and sell crystals and dreamcatchers well into their retirement.


I agree in an escalation of disrespect from teenagers nowadays, but it is simply a result of having that typical "teen invincibility complex" combined with being raised with the all-powerful veil of anonymity of the internet now sitting in their pockets. They become the master of all things controversial and offensive, they can take out their hormone-fueled rage on unsuspecting prey left and right. In a way, it's kind of a good thing (in that they aren't taking it out on other people physically and personally and it encourages cowardice), but they need to learn that it must be used responsibly; that's a choice they have to make on their own.

It really comes down to just simple respect for others; something that is kinda missing in all generations and walks of life. It's a personal choice: it's not racial, it's not regional, it's not age or sex related, it's based on the personal decision to be a respectful, kind and empathetic person.


After avoiding all the drama surrounding controversial events lately, I made the conscious choice to read and respond to this post. No one forced me to get involved in the conversation and I could easily have never known any of these things happened or simply walked away and never said a word. This post is a conscious decision made by me and me alone. Letting these things get to us, getting outraged and starting a frenzy about them does exactly one thing: bring massive amounts of attention to undesirable things. Controversy for the sake of controversy is used for exactly one purpose: attention for personal gain. By swarming it with blind outrage, all that is accomplished is giving the "offenders" what they want. School shooters want to be martyrs, serial killers want to be legends, pop stars have "wardrobe malfunctions" for attention, shocking performances are for publicity - they will keep doing it until it stops working.

Everyone has the freedom to speak/type; everyone has the freedom to listen/read. (Unless the privately-owned hosting venue has deemed their actions inappropriate.) Everyone also has to deal with the consequences of their chosen actions. If you don't like controversial humor or performance art: don't support controversial comedians or performers by promoting their material (any publicity is good publicity). If you don't like hearing slurs or epithets, distance yourself from people that use them. If you don't like behaviors that you view as abusive, stay away from them the best you can. It really is that simple.

In all this talk about rights and freedoms being potentially infringed... the ability to just unplug, stand up and walk away at any time to put yourself in a positive place: that, my friends, is an undeniable freedom we all have.

 

[JickyJuly]

Even when I do think something is offensive, I would rather have it left alone. It's good to know who the hateful idiots of the world are. Prizing political correctness makes it harder to tell. I also feel that the term "offensive" is often used to shut people up and stop change. It offends people that women want contraception. It offends people that minimum wage workers want to make a living wage. It offends people when women get tattoos and swear. Offensive just pertains to personal beliefs, desires and preferences and most people make way too much of the word. It's pretty meaningless. It would be kind of awesome if we could toss it out. While we're tossing it out, maybe we could also stop the overuse of "I have a right to my (uninformed, uninvited, completely irrelevant) opinion".

Over the offensive line for me would include personal malicious attacks and anything violent, inciting violence or organizing violence/abuse. But, actually offensive things usually have a better descriptive word than offensive.

 

[bodisha]

I've read several threads involving the same issues under different circumstances.

Here we go:

Where does someone's right to say something offensive end and my right not to hear their offensive statement begin?

EXAMPLE: What can you do if Westboro Baptist Church decides to protest at the funeral of one of your loved ones? How would you react?
This also includes recent debates about flags, Nazis, politicians and such.

Where are the boundaries (if any exist)?

Does anyone have the ability to observe the rights and senses of others, or is it just a free-for-all?

I'm in my early 50's and had a lot of my attitudes shaped before all this politically correct nonsense started. Growing up I watched TV shows that poked fun at offensive people with regularity. Shows like "All in the Family", "Sanford & Son", or "The Jeffersons" all helped everyone get over themselves and their racist, sexist, or homophobic attitudes by addressing those issues through humor. I remember when Chevy Chase said the N word during a Saturday Night Live skit with Richard Prior



While it was news worthy at the time, it was also viewed as hilarious. I can't even to begin to image how many people would freak out if it air'ed today. The gay cross dresser on "All in the Family" was huge news at the time, but was 40 years ahead of the curve with how people deal with things. Yet, I doubt if "All in the Family" could make it on the air today because of the attitudes of Archie Bunker.

Even offensive situations in real life during the 70's were shrugged off by most people. Not that people wouldn't get offended, or mad, or even get into physically altercations of things. Mostly I think people accepted that others had a right to their opinions, right or wrong. At most, someone would bitch to their friends for a bit and them move on, and the subject would mostly be dropped. Looking back, I think the mindset at the time was along the lines that there wasn't much anyone could do about whatever offended them and not let their anger consume them with ignorant people.

Unfortunately, I think technology over the last 20 years has altered everyone's perception of their sense of self importance in relationship to everyone else. I view a large part of American society as living in their own little personal fishbowl through their phones and they're the big fish in their little world. Where they can get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want. If someone comes across a situation they don't like or are offended about, instead of accepting things and moving on, they can go to twitter, or facebook to express their outrage. With any number of people finding their post, identifying with it ,and feeding off of it. Perpetuating a sense of self importance and entitlement.

My gruff old man attitude pretty much tells me America has become a bunch of sensitive daisies with how we deal with offensive things. When you compare how bad it is in America to how bad people have it in 3rd world nations, we're really a bunch of pussies. Like the situation a few months ago with that Rachel Dolezal chick. The white woman who think's she is black. I personally thought it was hilarious and couldn't understand why so many people in the country were freaking out over it. I mean it lead the news for 3-4 nights straight.... Is something like that really THAT important in the grand scheme of things? Does anyone really think some starving guy in Africa cares if she pretends to be black? Does anyone think an Asian factory worker making $1 a day is worried about her? Iraqi Arabs are more concerned with getting beheaded by ISIS to worry about her. So I have to stop and wonder if Americans haven't gotten bored because we have so few real problems we're making mountains out of ant hills.

Oscar Wilde said "In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.". Which to me means we're all a lil bit fucking nuts when we compare ourselves to someone else. You have your opinion, I have mine, let's just move on.

 

[weirdbr]

Unfortunately, I think technology over the last 20 years has altered everyone's perception of their sense of self importance in relationship to everyone else. I view a large part of American society as living in their own little personal fishbowl through their phones and they're the big fish in their little world.

IMHO, it's not technology that is doing this, but the change in how people are being educated. I'm in my 30s and I was educated in what could be called the 'old' style - I was taught that all my actions have effects and repercussions that I will have to accept, that I need to take into account the environment and people I am interacting with, that I have to work hard for things I want, etc, etc... But at the same time, I know plenty of people in my age range (or specially younger than me) that were brought up in the 'new' style, being spoiled all the time, with 'helicopter parents' protecting them from everything and everyone .. And the result are people that believe that they deserve everything, that their opinions and desires matter more than anyone else's and that they can never be wrong.

The technology aspect only makes the problem worse, as it allows broadcasting those desires and self-important thoughts .. And by the way, this isn't an american-only situation - I'm Brazilian and I know people of multiple nationalities that act like that - perhaps it's the result of US culture spreading everywhere or it could be just a result of similar factors being applied everywhere (going from the post-WW2 scarcity situation to a situation where parents can easily and cheaply spoil their children).

 

[DeezNA]

When you compare how bad it is in America to how bad people have it in 3rd world nations, we're really a bunch of pussies.

Very true. I had, in the Director's Cut of my post here, a statement to the degree that if anyone's freedom of speech or freedom to listen were being infringed upon, we wouldn't be having this conversation. There are many countries in the world where our doors would be kicked in for even reading this. In Saudi Arabia last year, a man was sentenced to 3 years in prison and 450 lashes simply for being homosexual; very luckily dodging the death penalty, which is not a rare punishment for this "crime". You can also get thrown in jail there for performing magic... so yeah, perspective is important.


Officially sanctioned censorship (the FCC, notably) never really happened until the whole FCC vs Pacifica case in 1978 - a case regarding George Carlin's Filthy Words monologue on the radio. This is not to say independent censorship didn't happen before this... but there was no governmental action taken to restrict broadcast before this, it was all choice of the broadcast companies. The Pryor/Chase skit in '75 was a great example of two world-class comedians at the top of their game pushing the limits of what is acceptable and making it work: they put their careers on the line and lucked out that they were talented enough to pull it off. In stark contrast to this, lest we forget Michael Richards' stand-up "incident"... Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction"... not performed in quite as good taste or as revered as first-season SNL.

Censorship in entertainment started from performers pushing boundaries in venues that were deemed socially inappropriate (the Carlin broadcast was live on an afternoon). After this, lines had to be drawn since there was a public outcry. The rest is history. Let's not forget the Gore crusade against music that tried to bleach not just specific artists, labeling them as "pornographers" and "polluting the youth", but entire genres. They're the reason we still have those little "Parental Warning" stickers on our CDs... not that people buy CDs anymore...

You can get away with a lot in syndicated media now: notably South Park pushed back limitations on "shit" and "bitch"; I'm not a huge fan since I think they do it just to flaunt that they can and I don't really find that amusing, but I admire that they have the confidence to push the limits and still hold a narrative.

It's kinda funny how before, being controversial was a risk that established artists/performers were taking - now, for a lot of people, it's a desperation ploy to get discovered.

And the result are people that believe that they deserve everything, that their opinions and desires matter more than anyone else's and that they can never be wrong.

It's not just parents, it's absolutely social media. 'Likes', 'Favorites', 'Upvotes', 'Thumbs Up', 'Achievements', you name it. People are being patted on the back every fucking second. With things like the Apple Watch being incorporated into peoples' lives, don't be surprised if you get a notification "Achievement Unlocked! First Shit Of The Day! You earned 300 Apple Points that are redeemable for absolutely nothing and have absolutely no significance or value whatsoever except to be used to brag about how much better you are than your friends! Yay, you did it, you're special!"

It's an amazingly effective psychological tool - I use it to combat the low-motivation that comes from depression and recommend it to friends: turning something useless but effective into something productive. Give yourself tangible rewards for doing something good and accomplishing actual things: exercise, eating healthy, cleaning, time for hobbies, etc.

It's a damn shame it has been used to make people feel like they're celebrities or something, but it really comes down to personal perception and delusion. The difference between saying something that 30 people "agree" with and saying something that no one "agrees" with can be a massively crushing blow to some people, some would even consider it insulting. In the end, it's all a search for affirmation and attention and the "points" mean absolutely nothing. (No offense Amber, I do agree that they make people feel warm and fuzzy and that's not at all a bad thing!) It comes down to use and abuse of the system there, that's user responsibility. Taking feedback constructively or taking it personally is an optional choice. Too many people use it as a first line of response on how to form and shape their behaviors; teens and youth can be much more impressionable in that regard. Post something on Reddit using the "n" word as a slur and get 2500+ upvotes? Talk about positive reinforcement - that kid feels like a fucking deity.

 

[bodisha]

IMHO, it's not technology that is doing this, but the change in how people are being educated. I'm in my 30s and I was educated in what could be called the 'old' style - I was taught that all my actions have effects and repercussions that I will have to accept, that I need to take into account the environment and people I am interacting with, that I have to work hard for things I want, etc, etc... But at the same time, I know plenty of people in my age range (or specially younger than me) that were brought up in the 'new' style, being spoiled all the time, with 'helicopter parents' protecting them from everything and everyone .. And the result are people that believe that they deserve everything, that their opinions and desires matter more than anyone else's and that they can never be wrong.

The technology aspect only makes the problem worse, as it allows broadcasting those desires and self-important thoughts .. And by the way, this isn't an american-only situation - I'm Brazilian and I know people of multiple nationalities that act like that - perhaps it's the result of US culture spreading everywhere or it could be just a result of similar factors being applied everywhere (going from the post-WW2 scarcity situation to a situation where parents can easily and cheaply spoil their children).

I think you might be on to something, but I think it could be expanded out to parenting in general. I think that states (in part through the educational system) have limited how we (and by we i mean everyone with kids... I made sure not to have any cuz i'm selfish like that) raise our children. In the late 60's my 1st grade teacher, some old lady in her 50's or 60's, would take us out into the hallway... Grab a handful of hair at the top of our heads, and shake the living shit out of us for 5 or 10 seconds to discipline us. I don't remember what I did to get that, but 45 years later I remember it and I doubt if i did what ever it was again. In the 70's I remember being paddled by several grade school principles for acting out. The Dean of Boy's at our Junior High School, who was this huge black guy that played professional football for the Vikings at one point in time, paddled me once for fighting. You better believe I remembered it. By today's standards each incident would probably be viewed as child abuse, and I can't imagine my 1st grade teacher would't wind up all over CNN and land in jail by today's standards.

After the schools stopped corporal punishment, they went on the lookout for child abuse in the home. With state child protective services backing the schools up, physically punishing children became a jail-able offense and all but stopped in the late 80's. I'm not saying child abuse isn't a horrible offense or shouldn't be punished, but I can't remember the last time I heared a friend say they even spanked their child for acting out. I mean everyone's more worried about being charged with a crime than disciplining their children and they all want to "talk it out" or give the kids "time out's".

I saw a youtube video the other day of some 9-ish year old kid that was completely out of control and terrorizing his mother at some clothing store. He was having a meltdown and hitting & kicking her while calling her a "fucking bitch". Instead of bringing down the hammer on the lil brat, she spent most of the video pleading and begging for him to stop. When he didn't, she sort of wrestled him to the ground, and gave him "hugs" till he stopped. Which he hadn't by the time the video ended, and was still going strong kicking his mother and calling her names. If I acted like that in public... My parents would have immediately knocked the shit out of me on the spot. I think anyone that grew up in the 60's would tell you the other adults during that time frame would have praised and supported her for it too.

My dad use to love to tell the story of the first time my mother heard me use the word "fuck". I was in 2nd grade and she overheard me use it with a friend. My dad use to laugh at the mental picture of me hauling ass down the street in sheer terror as my mother came running out of the house. I also remember a grade school friend of mine telling me his father backhanded him so hard he flew out of the dinning room chair because he wouldn't take his elbows off the table. While punishments might have been harsh pre-1980's... They insured we considered those around us. I won't say me or my friends were angles by any stretch of the imagination... But we were respectful to adults and knew our place and went a long way towards how we behaved as adults.

 

[weirdbr]

I think you might be on to something, but I think it could be expanded out to parenting in general. I think that states (in part through the educational system) have limited how we (and by we i mean everyone with kids... I made sure not to have any cuz i'm selfish like that) raise our children.

Honestly I don't think it was only (or exclusively) state interference, but primarily social changes - sure, states made it a crime to punish children physically, but parents in general seem to have changed their behaviour - they don't say a plain and direct 'no', instead opting to explain/soften the rejection; usage of non-corporal punishments like timeouts and not letting kids join their friends to play isn't as common as when I was raised (it's specially powerful when you have annoying siblings like me - they would bring their toys and play in front of me when I was in timeout... not fun at all)...

Also, this actually reminds me of an interesting article, of an american mother raising her kids in France - the biggest difference between the two cultures: french parents treat their children more like adults instead of protecting them and trying to not hurt their feelings.

Now, the root of that change? I'll be damned if I know - could be effects of many cultural changes in the last 50+ years...

 

[dilligaf0]

Censorship in entertainment started from performers pushing boundaries in venues that were deemed socially inappropriate (the Carlin broadcast was live on an afternoon).

We need to remember that Lenny Bruce also pushed the boundaries.

My parents would be called "abusers" today, even though they really weren't.


Teachers aren't even allowed to break up a fight between two students.

 

[bob]

IMHO, it's not technology that is doing this, but the change in how people are being educated. I'm in my 30s and I was educated in what could be called the 'old' style - I was taught that all my actions have effects and repercussions that I will have to accept, that I need to take into account the environment and people I am interacting with, that I have to work hard for things I want, etc, etc... But at the same time, I know plenty of people in my age range (or specially younger than me) that were brought up in the 'new' style, being spoiled all the time, with 'helicopter parents' protecting them from everything and everyone .. And the result are people that believe that they deserve everything, that their opinions and desires matter more than anyone else's and that they can never be wrong.

The technology aspect only makes the problem worse, as it allows broadcasting those desires and self-important thoughts .. And by the way, this isn't an american-only situation - I'm Brazilian and I know people of multiple nationalities that act like that - perhaps it's the result of US culture spreading everywhere or it could be just a result of similar factors being applied everywhere (going from the post-WW2 scarcity situation to a situation where parents can easily and cheaply spoil their children).

You're talking about critical thought
What a concept....the idea that your actions have consequences, and that sooner or later, you're gonna have to defend 'em. Aggression, tolerance, compassion, ridicule.....all the motivations that drive us, and the systems (technological, political, economic, social) we've built to support them....they're meaningless without the process of critical thought
I do believe that our educational system, with it's emphasis on results rather than process, contributes to whatever it is we're stirring here

 

[SoTxBob]

wow, there's a concept for these days.. Critical thought...
I'd even bet we would need to explain to a lot of folks that's not just criticizing someone.. LoL.

...about all the critical thought i can handle right now is figuring out if I'm gonna make apple or peach cobbler.

 

[Lady_Sebilla]

Why do we need something new? We still have discrimination, war, persecution and dishonest politics...same as the 60's.

Because every subculture doesn't reduce itself to a bunch of ideas. First of all, it's about its image: looks, behaviour, etc. Marketing, baby!
Hippie subculture is just too old for this new world we live in today.

 

[dilligaf0]

Because every subculture doesn't reduce itself to a bunch of ideas. First of all, it's about its image: looks, behaviour, etc. Marketing, baby!
Hippie subculture is just too old for this new world we live in today.

Sorry to disagree, it's about beliefs and principles.
Changing things for the better.
I know, I was there.

 

[DeezNA]

Hippie subculture is just too old for this new world we live in today.

Someone please, for the love of everything that's holy, tell that to all the college kids and actual ex-hippies that are infesting the area around me. If you want to smoke weed or whatever that's cool, just smoke weed, you don't need an excuse; just please take a shower. It's getting out of control, and the irony of how much they spike their prices for... everything... because it's "eco-whatever" is just flat-out painful on both the mind and the wallet.

But yeah, if 50 years is too old for an ideology, we should probably revisit the Declaration and the Constitution because they're about 5 times older than that. Not even touching religious text here, I'll let someone braver than I handle that one.

 

[Lady_Sebilla]

Sorry to disagree, it's about beliefs and principles.
Changing things for the better.
I know, I was there.

Everyone who "was there" would tell same thing. I'm not trying to tell you that beliefs and principles don't mean anything to subculture adepts. Those things are among the pimary stuff, but you have to realize hippie subculture is dead and it's never gonna reborn. Just because it's not a trend anymore. Also, hippies' principles are pretty typical for any idoelogy that positions itself as "good". Christianity, for example or any other religion. Those will live forever passing from one subculture/religion/constitution to another one. The only thing changing is image. Marketing, like I said.