Trayvon Martin

[Bocefish]

Here's a link with only the audio segment in question: http://www.courier-journal.com/article/ ... ext|Home|s

I just listened to it again several times and now I think he's actually saying F'ng POGES. It's pronounced like vogue but with a P. I was in a light infantry division and familiar with the word due to being prior military. The word poge basically means somebody who is in the rear echelon areas with zero danger of combat and creature comforts. Zimmerman never served, but his father did, so he may very well have picked it up from him. His muttering of that word under his breath was probably referring to the dispatcher, which kinda fits with his over-inflated ego of himself being some sort of badazz on the front lines. One expert thought he said F'ing POST. Bottom line is nobody but Zimmerman knows exactly what he said.

 

[Nordling]

Here's a link with only the audio segment in question: http://www.courier-journal.com/article/ ... ext|Home|s

I just listened to it again several times and now I think he's actually saying F'ng POGES. It's pronounced like vogue but with a P. I was in a light infantry division and familiar with the word due to being prior military. The word poge basically means somebody who is in the rear echelon areas with zero danger of combat and creature comforts. Zimmerman never served, but his father did, so he may very well have picked it up from him. His muttering of that word under his breath was probably referring to the dispatcher, which kinda fits with his over-inflated ego of himself being some sort of badazz on the front lines. One expert thought he said F'ing POST. Bottom line is nobody but Zimmerman knows exactly what he said.

The first sound in the second word was definitely NOT a fricative, and to most people sounds like a guttural. I do think it's interesting how everyone hears pretty much what the want to hear. CNN has isolated the sound and people will still argue about what they hear:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-isolates-audio-on-alleged-‘fcking-cns’-trayvon-martin-911-call/

 

[Anonymous]

I can listen to it a hundred times, and I'd still say that "fucking coons" is what I heard. To suggest that he said something else that sounds similar just seems silly to me.

And even if he didn't say it, the asshole still went and chased after Trayvon after he was specifically given orders to NOT chase him. Pathetic.....

And there's hateful people on the internet already making jokes about Trayvon's mom, saying that she looks like an ape, etc. SMH.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

I'm surprised a gun enthusiast hasn't said "If Trayvon Martin had a gun he could have defended himself" but instead said gun enthusiast would turn around and say "He had a gun on him, Zimmerman clearly did the right thing by shooting him and defending himself."

 

[Jupiter551]

I can listen to it a hundred times, and I'd still say that "fucking coons" is what I heard. To suggest that he said something else that sounds similar just seems silly to me.

And even if he didn't say it, the asshole still went and chased after Trayvon after he was specifically given orders to NOT chase him. Pathetic.....

And there's hateful people on the internet already making jokes about Trayvon's mom, saying that she looks like an ape, etc. SMH.

I even came across shit asking if there's any proof Trayvon didn't steal the skittles, since there was no mention of a reciept on him...I mean seriously. You have to prove a murder victim didn't steal something found in his possession now? I don't keep reciepts for things like that and if I'm asked if I want one I decline. Besides which, even if he had stolen them it would change NOTHING about this case.

 

[Bocefish]

Even the expert from CNN said he couldn't determine anything conclusive from the enhanced audio.

Some further food for thought...

Almost all of the news items about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin contains a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and a complete absence of some of the most relevant details. Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda.

On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.

The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.

The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.

Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.

Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

Continue reading on Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/charleston-cons ... z1qA3DqLGS

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/s ... n-03232012

Well... they were both on property where they both had a right to be. What kind of exchange took place prior to the physical altercation? Who escalated it to the point of physical contact? Did Zimmerman push him, or physically engage him first? Did he get in Trayvon's personal space? Did Trayvon react rashly to Zimmerman and initiate the physical fight? Why didn't Trayvon earlier end the call with his gf, dial 911 and tell the police someone was following him? Is it not possible Trayvon's adrenaline from being followed by a stranger at night was escalated and gave into the fight portion of the fight or flight response and charged Zimmerman? Was there a struggle for control of the gun and it went off by accident? These are some of the kinds of questions I still have.

If I'm not mistaken, Florida law considers the use of lethal force justifiable against someone beating on you, but only if you didn't start the fight.

In regards the SYG law, here is the applicable section of the law:

(3- A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Nowhere does it state that Zimmerman can legally approach, attack and shoot Martin, if that is the way it went down.

It's a common sense law, that like any other law, requires the truthful circumstances be told before someone can claim they are entitled to the protection of said law.

I'm just trying to look at all the (albeit very few) FACTS, with an open mind, that are available to us.

All that being said, there are too many holes in what Zimmerman has said. I thought from the very beginning he should have been brought in for further questioning, his weapon confiscated, his clothes collected and blood drawn for testing. Why the PD didn't do that just to err on the side of caution and cover their asses is a mystery. Epic fail on the PD IMO.

Bottom line is this was a senseless, avoidable, tragic loss of life. I think we all just want a fair, comprehensive, full investigation and trial ASAP. There are 3 or 4 separate, independent investigations going on so I feel confident the truth will eventually be found.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Yes the man with the gun following someone when he was told not to is the real victim in all of this. Trayvon knew he was being followed but said he wasn't going to run, just keep walking instead.One might think that Trayvon was acting in self defense, himself.

 

[Bocefish]

No doubt they both felt they were righteous doing what they were doing. Zimmerman should have let the real authorities handle it and never dismounted his vehicle. Even though he did, a simple, "Excuse me, I'm with the neighborhood watch committee. Do you live in the area?" or "Can I ask what you're doing here?" would have probably deescalated everything almost instantly. Stupid and senseless loss of life.

I just wish everyone would settle down and leave it to the investigators and Grand Jury to decide. We have nowhere near all the facts.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Well if the investigators would have investigated things in the first place maybe people wouldn't have screamed cover up? But if you'd like to tell the black community that they should just trust the police department and justice will prevail go right ahead. It's just all one big misunderstanding is all.

 

[Mirra]

Between racial profiling on one side and aversion to "snitching" on the other, it could be quite a while before either side feels comfortable with the other. In other news, this thread has suddenly made me want to watch Boondocks. I wonder what Huey Freeman would have to say about this case.

 

[Nordling]

No doubt they both felt they were righteous doing what they were doing. Zimmerman should have let the real authorities handle it and never dismounted his vehicle. Even though he did, a simple, "Excuse me, I'm with the neighborhood watch committee. Do you live in the area?" or "Can I ask what you're doing here?" would have probably deescalated everything almost instantly. Stupid and senseless loss of life.

I just wish everyone would settle down and leave it to the investigators and Grand Jury to decide. We have nowhere near all the facts.

Maybe people will settle down when other people quit hearing fricatives when it's obviously a guttural. Maybe people will settle down when people quit telling other people how to feel.

 

[Bocefish]

Maybe people will settle down when other people quit hearing fricatives when it's obviously a guttural. Maybe people will settle down when people quit telling other people how to feel.

I'm not even sure what the heck you're talking about with fricatives. Are you saying the audio experts don't know what they're talking about and you know better?

If you want to say something, come out and say it. Who's telling other people how to feel?

 

[Anonymous]

Stupid and senseless loss of life.

I just wish everyone would settle down and leave it to the investigators and Grand Jury to decide. We have nowhere near all the facts.

Just as you described it...a stupid and senseless loss of life. And the fact that it happened to a teenager makes parents all over the world go WTF?!

You want everyone to settle down, but I'm not sure that's gonna happen while this Zimmerman punk continues to sit at home a free man, while Trayvon's parents have to go to bed each night wondering when their son's killer will be brought to justice.

http://youtu.be/RTMyb15bfAE
Did you guys see this video? I apologize if it's already been mentioned in this thread. Geraldo Rivera thinks parents need to stop letting their kids walk outside with hoodies. Wow.....

 

[Nordling]

Maybe people will settle down when other people quit hearing fricatives when it's obviously a guttural. Maybe people will settle down when people quit telling other people how to feel.

I'm not even sure what the heck you're talking about with fricatives. Are you saying the audio experts don't know what they're talking about and you know better?

If you want to say something, come out and say it. Who's telling other people how to feel?

I'm saying that the audio experts you're citing don't know what they're talking about, yes. You can look up "fricative" on your own.

 

[Anonymous]

Who's telling other people how to feel?

I think Nordling is referring to this comment that you made:

I just wish everyone would settle down and leave it to the investigators and Grand Jury to decide.

 

[Bocefish]

Maybe people will settle down when other people quit hearing fricatives when it's obviously a guttural. Maybe people will settle down when people quit telling other people how to feel.

I'm not even sure what the heck you're talking about with fricatives. Are you saying the audio experts don't know what they're talking about and you know better?

If you want to say something, come out and say it. Who's telling other people how to feel?

I'm saying that the audio experts you're citing don't know what they're talking about, yes. You can look up "fricative" on your own.

I'm citing the audio expert YOU linked to, lol. He's the one that said the enhanced audio is not definitive.

Who's telling other people how to feel?

 

[Nordling]

Who's telling other people how to feel?

I think Nordling is referring to this comment that you made:

I just wish everyone would settle down and leave it to the investigators and Grand Jury to decide.

Exactly. And if everyone had just "settled down" and let the investigators do their work, this would never have hit the streets in the first place... stories like the recent murder of an Iraqi woman in El Cajon aren't getting as much attention because people are "settling down."

There's a time to settle down, like right after a turkey dinner.

There's a time to shout and cry, like right after a major injustice is done.

 

[Nordling]

Maybe people will settle down when other people quit hearing fricatives when it's obviously a guttural. Maybe people will settle down when people quit telling other people how to feel.

I'm not even sure what the heck you're talking about with fricatives. Are you saying the audio experts don't know what they're talking about and you know better?

If you want to say something, come out and say it. Who's telling other people how to feel?

I'm saying that the audio experts you're citing don't know what they're talking about, yes. You can look up "fricative" on your own.

I'm citing the audio expert YOU linked to, lol. He's the one that said the enhanced audio is not definitive.

Who's telling other people how to feel?

That's not what I"m talking about. The CNN expert, although he agrees it's not adequate for evidence in court, perhaps, it DEFINITELY sounds like C**N. Not punk, jerk, post or fart. C**N!

You're telling people how to feel.... "...if everyone would settle down..."

 

[Bocefish]

Saying "I just wish everyone would settle down and leave it to the investigators and Grand Jury to decide" is NOT telling people how to feel. Those are my personal feelings on the matter. Even Trayvon's parents said they just want justice for their son at this point. They don't want anything to do with an 'eye for eye' vigilante justice. They even said so themselves on Dateline Sunday earlier this evening. I have to commend them for being so rational in the midst of all of this, my heart breaks for them.

The past can't be changed, unfortunately. I think everybody wishes it could. At this point, the legal system is working at every level it can. I wish it worked faster though.

 

[Nordling]

Saying "I just wish everyone would settle down and leave it to the investigators and Grand Jury to decide" is NOT telling people how to feel. Those are my personal feelings on the matter. Even Trayvon's parents said they just want justice for their son at this point. They don't want anything to do with an 'eye for eye' vigilante justice. They even said so themselves on Dateline Sunday earlier this evening. I have to commend them for being so rational in the midst of all of this, my heart breaks for them.

The past can't be changed, unfortunately. I think everybody wishes it could. At this point, the legal system is working at every level it can. I wish it worked faster though.

Who's asking for vigilante justice? Since when is discussing injustice and the various facts, opinions and stuff surrounding an event advocating for the very thing that caused this nasty event in the first place?

Note: telling someone to "settle down" IS indeed telling someone "how to feel."

That's why it was a joke for one season on SNL.

 

[Bocefish]

Saying "I just wish everyone would settle down and leave it to the investigators and Grand Jury to decide" is NOT telling people how to feel. Those are my personal feelings on the matter. Even Trayvon's parents said they just want justice for their son at this point. They don't want anything to do with an 'eye for eye' vigilante justice. They even said so themselves on Dateline Sunday earlier this evening. I have to commend them for being so rational in the midst of all of this, my heart breaks for them.

The past can't be changed, unfortunately. I think everybody wishes it could. At this point, the legal system is working at every level it can. I wish it worked faster though.

Who's asking for vigilante justice? Since when is discussing injustice and the various facts, opinions and stuff surrounding an event advocating for the very thing that caused this nasty event in the first place?

Note: telling someone to "settle down" IS indeed telling someone "how to feel."

That's why it was a joke for one season on SNL.

I'm beginning to believe the only exercise you get is jumping to conclusions. I never TOLD anyone to settle down. Reading comprehension please. You're seeing things that aren't there. As far the people that are asking for vigilante justice... it's the NBPs that put a $10k bounty on Zimmerman and saying an "eye for an eye."

 

[Mirra]

See... and I thought it sounded a bit like Goon.

As for the confusion of vocabulary I believe he's saying the beginning of the 2nd word sounds as if it originates from the throat. Where as the word poges originates with your lips. I believe the use of the word fricative isn't completely clear since it is a rather generic term for the methods by which many consonant sounds are created.

Well you guys have fun telling each other what you should and should not be able to tell each other... or something. I'm not completely sure what's going on anymore. I'm going to watch some more episodes of the Boondocks. Just finished "A Date With The Health Inspector" (S1 E5) so it's time for "The Story of Gangstalicious."

 

[SoTxBob]

Step Away From the keyboard you 2... Relax, Chill, Settle down here.... Maybe tomorrow there will be a bit more clarity.

 

[Nordling]

 

[Anonymous]

In this situation, saying "I just wish everyone would settle down" is basically saying "I just wish everyone would stop getting so upset and riled up over this."

People WILL get upset when someone's unarmed child gets gunned down, and they have a right to feel that way.

 

[Bocefish]

I understand now how it could be interpreted that way, but that's not at all what I meant. I'm 100% in favor of the protests and community gatherings demanding justice, that's awesome. I'm just worried that things may go too far like this $10K bounty wanting an 'eye for eye' or people getting caught up in the moment, starting riots... That's what I'm concerned about.

 

[Nordling]

I understand now how it could be interpreted that way, but that's not at all what I meant. I'm 100% in favor of the protests and community gatherings demanding justice, that's awesome. I'm just worried that things may go too far like this $10K bounty wanting an 'eye for eye' or people getting caught up in the moment, starting riots... That's what I'm concerned about.

Okay, thank you for clarifying. We can agree.

As far as The New Black Panthers, they are clowns--they have no connection whatsoever to the old Black Panther Party of the 60s and 70s. They simply are looking for attention, like hanging out in front of an election precinct in fake pseudo-military gear. Everyone ignored them then, except those who wanted to blow them out of proportion to their importance. I would be very surprised if anyone gives them money or attempts to carry out their "goal."

 

[Jupiter551]

I've worn hoodies and wasn't trying to look tough, it was just like having a fairly convenient hat attached on a medium-cold day, it's not my fault if some people use it to disguise their identity for crimes. That's like saying women who wear stilettos are trying to look like prostitutes.

 

[Nordling]

I've worn hoodies and wasn't trying to look tough, it was just like having a fairly convenient hat attached on a medium-cold day, it's not my fault if some people use it to disguise their identity for crimes. That's like saying women who wear stilettos are trying to look like prostitutes.

Yeah, and really, I think hoodies look dorky but living where I do, I'm glad to have one when I decide to walk to the store and it suddenly starts raining. lol

 

[Bocefish]

Hoodies do come in handy at times, I have a couple but don't like putting the hood up sometimes because it really limits your peripheral vision. I just saw where Geraldo blames it on the hoodie, lol, that guy is such a moron. I can see where wearing one may possibly raise suspicion if worn at night in warm, dry weather.

Another article that came out today: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nation ... full.story