warning/discussion "banks war on porn"

[KamikaziKitty]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/07/the-banks-war-on-porn.html

Thoughts on legalities? Do you think the possible suit will go anywhere? Do you think it's a conspiracy theory?

 

[SatanJonez]

I think it's funny any bank could have a moral issue with the way people make money so long as it is legal.

 

[Kickaz]

Why don't they start firing all the bank employees who watch porn too.
An institution that its business model is to fuck ppl over money should not have any moral rights to judge someone that fuck for money.

Even if this is true about her and other ppl in the porn industry, I doubt it affects ppl getting paid on mfc. We get paid from a third party company that does online marketing and search engine optimization. I checked from the records of my bank and there are no web references that connect that to mfc.

 

[JickyJuly]

Any financial institution that can afford to turn away money based on a profession is already more corrupt than any of us. You don't get that rich by being decent.

 

[Gen]

I think it's a frightening concept that the bank can just say "oops, you're sketchy" and close your account. I'd be worried about that even if I wasn't in this industry, because I think it's a slippery slope. Bank accounts are basically an essential service in my opinion, so I think that they should operate on stricter guidelines than just "we suspect...".

I've read things online before saying it's hard to get a chewing account in the States; is that true? Like is it something you have to apply for? Up here it's very easy to do and isn't tied to your credit or anything.

 

[Kradek]

I've read things online before saying it's hard to get a chewing account in the States; is that true? Like is it something you have to apply for? Up here it's very easy to do and isn't tied to your credit or anything.

I don't know what a chewing account is but it sounds awesome. Can you get one for bubble gum?

 

[yossarian]

I assume you meant "checking". :thumbleft:

I don't think it's hard...you just have to have enough money to open an account (usually 50 dollars or so). I've never heard of anyone not being able to get one.

 

[JickyJuly]

I assume you meant "checking". :thumbleft:

I don't think it's hard...you just have to have enough money to open an account (usually 50 dollars or so). I've never heard of anyone not being able to get one.

If you have bad credit, it can be difficult. When I was 20, I settled a credit card because the collections lady told me that would take it off my credit report. That's a lie, btw. Settling a credit card by paying a lump sum stays on your report and looks worse than the occasional delinquent payment. I had a shit time getting a checking account. Eventually, I joined a credit unions and they helped me rebuild a little. After all that, I can't get a checking account now AGAIN because my husband wrote bad checks under my name. So, he has 2 checking accounts and credit and I qualify for none of that in the next 5 years.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I assume you meant "checking". :thumbleft:

I don't think it's hard...you just have to have enough money to open an account (usually 50 dollars or so). I've never heard of anyone not being able to get one.

If you have bad credit, it can be difficult. When I was 20, I settled a credit card because the collections lady told me that would take it off my credit report. That's a lie, btw. Settling a credit card by paying a lump sum stays on your report and looks worse than the occasional delinquent payment. I had a shit time getting a checking account. Eventually, I joined a credit unions and they helped me rebuild a little. After all that, I can't get a checking account now AGAIN because my husband wrote bad checks under my name. So, he has 2 checking accounts and credit and I qualify for none of that in the next 5 years.

AFAIK, being able to open checking accounts isn't tied to credit ratings. But I can understand why a bank would be reluctant to open a checking account to somebody with a history of writing bad checks.. Banks often eat the costs of a bad check. That is an awful thing your husband (ex?) did. Have you had any luck working with the credit reporting agency to get it off your record? They are a pain in the ass to deal with, and you generally have to go through a few layers of folks to find somebody to actually help but it is possible.

 

[JickyJuly]

I assume you meant "checking". :thumbleft:

I don't think it's hard...you just have to have enough money to open an account (usually 50 dollars or so). I've never heard of anyone not being able to get one.

If you have bad credit, it can be difficult. When I was 20, I settled a credit card because the collections lady told me that would take it off my credit report. That's a lie, btw. Settling a credit card by paying a lump sum stays on your report and looks worse than the occasional delinquent payment. I had a shit time getting a checking account. Eventually, I joined a credit unions and they helped me rebuild a little. After all that, I can't get a checking account now AGAIN because my husband wrote bad checks under my name. So, he has 2 checking accounts and credit and I qualify for none of that in the next 5 years.

AFAIK, being able to open checking accounts isn't tied to credit ratings. But I can understand why a bank would be reluctant to open a checking account to somebody with a history of writing bad checks.. Banks often eat the costs of a bad check. That is an awful thing your husband (ex?) did. Have you had any luck working with the credit reporting agency to get it off your record? They are a pain in the ass to deal with, and you generally have to go through a few layers of folks to find somebody to actually help but it is possible.

Checking credit to open a checking account might be a regional thing. I never had a problem opening a new account in Michigan even with my bad credit, but when I moved South, 3 banks turned me away before I joined a credit union. It was kind of shocking to me. I haven't tried to open a new account since the bad check incident. I wouldn't want me if I were a bank seeing that. :lol: Pretty sure the only way to get it off my report is to pay it now.

 

[SexySteph]

Why don't they start firing all the bank employees who watch porn too.
An institution that its business model is to fuck ppl over money should not have any moral rights to judge someone that fuck for money.

Even if this is true about her and other ppl in the porn industry, I doubt it affects ppl getting paid on mfc. We get paid from a third party company that does online marketing and search engine optimization. I checked from the records of my bank and there are no web references that connect that to mfc.

If you google MFCXY.inc there are multiple pages that make it very clear what MFCXY inc actually is.

 

[Kickaz]

Why don't they start firing all the bank employees who watch porn too.
An institution that its business model is to fuck ppl over money should not have any moral rights to judge someone that fuck for money.

Even if this is true about her and other ppl in the porn industry, I doubt it affects ppl getting paid on mfc. We get paid from a third party company that does online marketing and search engine optimization. I checked from the records of my bank and there are no web references that connect that to mfc.

If you google MFCXY.inc there are multiple pages that make it very clear what MFCXY inc actually is.

It shows up with another name on my account. MFCXY.inc does not appear anywhere on my bank records

 

[SexySteph]

Why don't they start firing all the bank employees who watch porn too.
An institution that its business model is to fuck ppl over money should not have any moral rights to judge someone that fuck for money.

Even if this is true about her and other ppl in the porn industry, I doubt it affects ppl getting paid on mfc. We get paid from a third party company that does online marketing and search engine optimization. I checked from the records of my bank and there are no web references that connect that to mfc.

If you google MFCXY.inc there are multiple pages that make it very clear what MFCXY inc actually is.

It shows up with another name on my account. MFCXY.inc does not appear anywhere on my bank records

Idk what MFC uses in Canada, but for my direct deposits come from ACH (Automated Clearing House) which is used for most electronic transfers (my credit card payments, giftrockets, etc all go through ACH). But if you view the details on the payments it'll show the ID of the company that initiated the transfer (MFCXY, CAP ONE, or GROC in the cases of the ones I listed). Maybe that is entirely concealed on Canadian accounts but on both banks I've used since starting camming have all given that information when I viewed transactions on my accounts.

ETA: Not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to demonstrate that we can't assume that we'll all be safe and banks won't know where camgirls payments are coming from.

 

[yossarian]

Credit unions are so much better than regular banks in general. It's like a bank with the evil drained out.

 

[The Insider]

I read a very interesting article about this on Jezebel a week or so ago when this was fresh news.
The commentary afterwards were very lively

http://jezebel.com/chase-bank-is-shutting-down-porn-actors-bank-accounts-1566759503

 

[SaffronBurke]

Credit unions are so much better than regular banks in general. It's like a bank with the evil drained out.

Also, small lil local banks. The bank my family uses has a whopping 3 branches, all in small towns. I have an office job at a big, evil corporation, and I giggle all the time about taking their evil money, putting it in a local bank, and spending it at local businesses.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I like credit unions also but Schwab bank (associated with the brokerage Charles Schwab) is pretty hard to beat.
$1,000 to open to Schwab brokerage account but no minimums for the checking account.

What are the fees and minimums?

Monthly service fees: $0
Account minimum: $0

What do I get with this account?

Unlimited fee rebates from any ATM worldwide1
A 0.10% APY variable interest rate on any balance2
Free bill pay on Schwab.com and Schwab Mobile
Apply for Schwab Mobile Deposit™ to deposit checks from anywhere
Free standard checks and a Visa® Platinum debit card
FDIC insurance up to $250,000
A linked Schwab One® brokerage account with no fees or minimums

I have used them all over the world for 20+ year and never paid a dollar in bank fees, plus in the days before interest rates were super low, they even paid decent interest on the money in your checking account. Plus great service. About the only thing I can't do is easily deposit cash or get cashier check, but I use Walmart money orders to do those things.

It is also never too early to start saving and investing, and Schwab brokerages has lots of low cost ways of doing that.. (No I don't work there just a fan)

 

[Jupiter551]

I think it's funny any bank could have a moral issue with the way people make money so long as it is legal.

Since when do banks have a problem laundering illegal money?

And this is outrageous, straight up discrimination, and the bank should be made to pay in spades.

 

[KamikaziKitty]

My personal opinion is, well honestly I have no clue on whether its true or not. Not saying conspiracy per se but how many non-adult related accounts were closed as well? Legitimate curiousity point for me. It's very rare to find an unbiased article anywhere anymore so it's a tricky line to walk when it comes to truth in information.

If it is true, it hasn't effected me as I bank with Chase and have never once had an issue. Actually, it's the first bank in which I've never had an issue. Granted I signed up as a former military member and get different perks than average accounts but I doubt that has anything to do with my actual banking there.

We'll see how things unfold. I'm curious to see how it all plays out in the end.

 

[eclipse76]

I think it's funny any bank could have a moral issue with the way people make money so long as it is legal.

Since when do banks have a problem laundering illegal money?

And this is outrageous, straight up discrimination, and the bank should be made to pay in spades.

The problem is not banks apparently, but the DOJ pressuring banks.

 

[CharlotteLace]

I think it's funny any bank could have a moral issue with the way people make money so long as it is legal.

Since when do banks have a problem laundering illegal money?

And this is outrageous, straight up discrimination, and the bank should be made to pay in spades.

The problem is not banks apparently, but the DOJ pressuring banks.

But that theory doesn't make sense, though. If that was the case, why would Wells Fargo be openly welcoming such "suspicious characters" as porn stars? Seems if the DOJ was pressuring banks, they'd pressure ALL the banks as opposed to just one, ya know?

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I think it's funny any bank could have a moral issue with the way people make money so long as it is legal.

Since when do banks have a problem laundering illegal money?

And this is outrageous, straight up discrimination, and the bank should be made to pay in spades.

The problem is not banks apparently, but the DOJ pressuring banks.

But that theory doesn't make sense, though. If that was the case, why would Wells Fargo be openly welcoming such "suspicious characters" as porn stars? Seems if the DOJ was pressuring banks, they'd pressure ALL the banks as opposed to just one, ya know?

Well the article does say the number of porn stars having problems is in the tens and not hundreds, and several camgirls have reported no problems with Chase. My guess is that pornstars in question all had received payments from a couple of payment processors (like CC:Bill) that had ended up on on the DOJ shit list..

 

[Jupiter551]

I think it's funny any bank could have a moral issue with the way people make money so long as it is legal.

Since when do banks have a problem laundering illegal money?

And this is outrageous, straight up discrimination, and the bank should be made to pay in spades.

The problem is not banks apparently, but the DOJ pressuring banks.

Okay, but then it comes back to the same sort of thing we're seeing over leaked Snowden stuff - companies like google VOLUNTARILY gave shit out, and often chose to cooperate well beyond their legal obligations (and of course now that this has all come out those same companies are going out of their way to NOT cooperate without VERY good legal reason - because they got caught selling out their customers to the feds, publicly).

We would probably all be shocked at the level of interpretation and potential illegality of what the DOJ asked the banks to do - hence some of them refusing to do jack shit.

Banks laundered money for international drug cartels without penalty, the US govt doesn't generally pressure banks to do much of anything because they consider banks a protected species.

 

[CharlotteLace]

Well the article does say the number of porn stars having problems is in the tens and not hundreds, and several camgirls have reported no problems with Chase. My guess is that pornstars in question all had received payments from a couple of payment processors (like CC:Bill) that had ended up on on the DOJ shit list..

That makes more sense than the conspiracy theory that the DOJ is just trying to punish porn stars. I still think the majority of this falls on Chase, though.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I think it's funny any bank could have a moral issue with the way people make money so long as it is legal.

Since when do banks have a problem laundering illegal money?

And this is outrageous, straight up discrimination, and the bank should be made to pay in spades.

The problem is not banks apparently, but the DOJ pressuring banks.

Okay, but then it comes back to the same sort of thing we're seeing over leaked Snowden stuff - companies like google VOLUNTARILY gave shit out, and often chose to cooperate well beyond their legal obligations (and of course now that this has all come out those same companies are going out of their way to NOT cooperate without VERY good legal reason - because they got caught selling out their customers to the feds, publicly).

We would probably all be shocked at the level of interpretation and potential illegality of what the DOJ asked the banks to do - hence some of them refusing to do jack shit.

Banks laundered money for international drug cartels without penalty, the US govt doesn't generally pressure banks to do much of anything because they consider banks a protected species.

As part of "war on terror" both bank regulators and DOJ have been cracking down heavily on any suspected money laundering scheme. It use to be you could deposit $9,999 without a problem now days anything over $2,500 typically requires paperwork.

But I don't understand why you think it is illegal. If law enforcement agent ask a business turn over information about a customer or stop doing business with a customer, while the business typically doesn't have a legal obligation to do so without a warrant, the business is free to voluntarily cooperate. Financial records aren't like health records, there isn't some massive HIPPA law that protects ones privacy.

 

[Jupiter551]

I think it's funny any bank could have a moral issue with the way people make money so long as it is legal.

Since when do banks have a problem laundering illegal money?

And this is outrageous, straight up discrimination, and the bank should be made to pay in spades.

The problem is not banks apparently, but the DOJ pressuring banks.

Okay, but then it comes back to the same sort of thing we're seeing over leaked Snowden stuff - companies like google VOLUNTARILY gave shit out, and often chose to cooperate well beyond their legal obligations (and of course now that this has all come out those same companies are going out of their way to NOT cooperate without VERY good legal reason - because they got caught selling out their customers to the feds, publicly).

We would probably all be shocked at the level of interpretation and potential illegality of what the DOJ asked the banks to do - hence some of them refusing to do jack shit.

Banks laundered money for international drug cartels without penalty, the US govt doesn't generally pressure banks to do much of anything because they consider banks a protected species.

As part of "war on terror" both bank regulators and DOJ have been cracking down heavily on any suspected money laundering scheme. It use to be you could deposit $9,999 without a problem now days anything over $2,500 typically requires paperwork.

But I don't understand why you think it is illegal. If law enforcement agent ask a business turn over information about a customer or stop doing business with a customer, while the business typically doesn't have a legal obligation to do so without a warrant, the business is free to voluntarily cooperate. Financial records aren't like health records, there isn't some massive HIPPA law that protects ones privacy.

Aside from privacy and whether the DOJ should require warrants and probable cause to go through someone's bank records, these people have been denied service with no apparent due process, recourse, explanation.

Because having a bank account is so fundamental to living in our increasingly Orwellian world (you can't do shit online with cash, can you), denying someone this ability is a very serious and powerful step to take and should absolutely not be allowed to be done for anything less than the most concrete reasons.

If they think these people have laundered money or are involved in fraud then they should investigate and prosecute them, not cut off their bank account without giving them any notice.

 

[Heidi]

I have been thinking about leaving Chase before they close my account.

Last year when I opened my S-Corp, I walked into Chase to open my business bank account - got through many of the steps until it was time to describe my profession. I said entertainment and told the very nice lady that I was a webcam performer. She asked me what that entailed and if it was more of modeling or adult work, so I said it was a combination of those and many things. She clicked on "Adult Entertainment" and a box popped up that said she wasn't allowed to choose it.
She stepped out to go ask her manager about it, then he came downstairs and escorted me out of the bank and said I was not allowed to open a business account with them.
I was really embarrassed and appalled.

I guess I lucked out by not having my accounts shut down right then.

So I drove to the next Chase a mile away and told them I was a photographer.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I have been thinking about leaving Chase before they close my account.

Last year when I opened my S-Corp, I walked into Chase to open my business bank account - got through many of the steps until it was time to describe my profession. I said entertainment and told the very nice lady that I was a webcam performer. She asked me what that entailed and if it was more of modeling or adult work, so I said it was a combination of those and many things. She clicked on "Adult Entertainment" and a box popped up that said she wasn't allowed to choose it.
She stepped out to go ask her manager about it, then he came downstairs and escorted me out of the bank and said I was not allowed to open a business account with them.
I was really embarrassed and appalled.

I guess I lucked out by not having my accounts shut down right then.

So I drove to the next Chase a mile away and told them I was a photographer.

I think I'd have lost my shit and maybe thrown something through their window :?

It's just mind-bogglingly pathetic that we're in the year 2014 and sex work is such an issue.

 

[The Insider]

Chase has always been a play it safe bank. They are like the warren buffet of banks, they try as much as possible to stay away from things they deem risky.
Chase would rather make 1% on some rock solid long term investment than going for a risky seat of your pants make 10% in one month kinda thing.
I know this because when I was an IT consultant i worked at Chase for 5 years and my big ears were privy to a lot of things. And I mean I was at THE Chase world HQ on park ave in Manhattan, not a branch in Iowa.
It's just their nature to try and play it safe. It's worked well for them as over the years they bought or merged with many other powerhouse banks (anyone remember chemical bank?)

Chase is probably the safest bank to have your money in. People just need to be more inventive. Any pro at this biz would likely LLP and give it a plain sounding name, claiming to be a single employee entity and they'd use that for their account (as someone said above, claim to be a photog)

We could have a round robin clusterfuck argument about how things should be & ought to be and someone will pay dearly for this blah blah blah but chase is a private company. It's public in that is has shareholders but it is a privately held company. And they have always taken the safe route.
There is too much contrived outrage, you roll with the punches, adapt and move forward.
If you wanna change chase buy shares of stock and go to the shareholders meeting.

Would anyone here really want a repeat of the epassporte debacle? That was THE leader in payment in this industry and in the blink of an eye it was bankrupt & defunct. That same scenario could just as easily happen with payoneer or any other adult payment biz. And it can happen easier because their roots are all in Bahamian, Cayman and other "grey area" banks that do not have FDIC and if Tropical Bank Prez Johnny Nosecandy siphons off millions before he disappears plenty will be without their funds



P.s.
Personally the whole "The War On ........" is the most overused phrase in the past 5 years. If there was "war" on porn people than every bank would be doing it.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Chase has always been a play it safe bank. They are like the warren buffet of banks, they try as much as possible to stay away from things they deem risky.
Chase would rather make 1% on some rock solid long term investment than going for a risky seat of your pants make 10% in one month kinda thing.
I know this because when I was an IT consultant i worked at Chase for 5 years and my big ears were privy to a lot of things. And I mean I was at THE Chase world HQ on park ave in Manhattan, not a branch in Iowa.
It's just their nature to try and play it safe. It's worked well for them as over the years they bought or merged with many other powerhouse banks (anyone remember chemical bank?)

Chase is probably the safest bank to have your money in. People just need to be more inventive. Any pro at this biz would likely LLP and give it a plain sounding name, claiming to be a single employee entity and they'd use that for their account (as someone said above, claim to be a photog)

We could have a round robin clusterfuck argument about how things should be & ought to be and someone will pay dearly for this blah blah blah but chase is a private company. It's public in that is has shareholders but it is a privately held company. And they have always taken the safe route.

Exactly, JPM/Chase is primarily a commercial bank and damn good one. The consumer side is made up of lot banks which were acquired over the year like Washington Mutual, that were never particularly consumer friendly. If you run a multi billion multinational company, then you want to do business with JPM/Chase. But if you are consumer big doesn't mean better.

There ~7,000 banks in US and equal number of credit union that vast majority of which don't care how you earn your money. I was going to say that been banned from doing business from Chase is like an MFC member was perma banned by Aspen Rae. But than I realized that was tremendous insult to Aspen cause she puts on some great shows, some of which are unique. For a consumer, JPM/Chase doesn't offer anything unique.