Why PETA will always be a joke to me

[Jupiter551]

Nothing says "in touch with nature" like blowing away a puma that wasn't even aware it was being hunted, at a hunting resort, and then getting your photo taken with it while your arm is around your trophy wife.

Ignorance has no boundaries compared to the above statement.

So...ignorance has boundaries except when compared to the above statement? When compared the boundaries... disappear? As far as I can tell your sentence doesn't even make sense, care to explain it?



PS it seems the guy at the center of this is now under investigation for ethical breaches - it's claimed that the ranch didn't charge him for hunting the cougar, use of vehicles and guides, even though they normally charge US$6800. As a member of a government board he's not allowed to recieve gifts like that, nor did he even declare it. Considering he has power to decide what's hunted and how much, it's easy to wonder if pro-hunting lobbies toss a few gratuities his way (which would constitute corruption)

 

[Jaydenrainey]

So again, do we know that this was just a joy-kill? Or was it a "hey, you're a good hunter, why don't you get rid of this problem for us" with this problem being a mountain lion that has developed a taste for man, pet, or livestock?

The article linked doesn't tell us that. All it tells us is that he killed something and had his picture taken with the kill. I don't see any reason to get upset over that. Especially because it was done legally, and the target was something that is currently overpopulated in the area in which it was targeted.

You might have missed it but I responded the first time you asked, that it was killed on his vacation at a hunting lodge. People pay to go there to hunt, they have animals there that are for hunting.

This is the place he went:
http://www.flyingbranch.com/

Welcome to The Flying B Ranch, North America's most versatile Orvis Endorsed outdoor hunting and fishing lodge. Nestled in North Central Idaho's Lawyer Creek Canyon, the 5000 acre ranch lies just outside Kamiah, ID with exclusive permits to outfit in 740,000 acres of the Nez Perce and Clearwater National Forests of North Central Idaho. Whether you are looking for a group retreat or that customized trip-of-a-lifetime, join us for the ultimate outdoor and wilderness adventures.

The sound a hound dog makes when running on the scent of a Lion is an experience that cannot be put into words. For those who desire a unique and fun-filled hunting experience, we offer fully-guided (2 guides per hunter) Mountain Lion hunts out of our luxurious 14,000 sq ft lodge during the months of December through March.

Nothing in the outdoors compares to the superior disdain in the eyes of a Mountain Lion as his gaze catches yours. Every discerning outdoorsman should meet that look, and we are the best in the business at providing you with that opportunity. Using hound dogs, snowmobiles and snowshoes, we guide you into elk and deer wintering grounds in search of a fresh kill or lion track. From here is when the chase begins and we all hope it ends at the tree!

Here's one of the guests with his ...uhh...wife? Granddaughter? Prostitute? Anyone want to bet he drives a sports car?

this is disgusting. this type of arrogance makes me gag. your special because you killed this animal? id be more impressed if he went out there without his gun, hunting dog or any of the other crap and tried taking that animal on with his bare hands.. guarantee that story would have made for a much better ending.
ugh and that ladys smile. humans suck.

 

[JickyJuly]

I agree that hunting is sometimes for the greater good, but, for the record, paying to go shoot something at an enclosure is not hunting. The whole thing is weird and unnatural. That's like going to the butcher shop and doing a victory dance because you caught a steak. Lame. He'd probably have a better trophy wife and less of a gut if he was at least more sporting in his practices.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Don't like it, then it's not for you and no one is making you do it. Freedom. 'Merica! I don't hunt because it's not for me but I know many who do. It's not like he's going out to a small fence full of mountain lion and saying "that one!" before pulling out his gun. That place is 5000 acres, so there is still tracking involved, and waiting but at places like this the chances of actually finding big game to kill are just much greater because out in the great wide open good luck getting a kill in some other state over just a weekend.

 

[Jupiter551]

Yeah, freedom really is a noble concept - except when you consider that we, as animals, only consider ourselves to be worthy of freedom. Freedom doesn't mean doing whatever the hell you want - I can't just take up residence in the lobby of Buckingham Palace for instance.

Homo sapiens likes to elevate itself above its fellow animals and talk of lofty concepts like freedom, and justice. I suspect this is falling on deaf ears but if you really want to lay legitimate claim to a nobility of spirit in our species how about protecting the weak and vulnerable? Surely that's a noble goal, worthy of a civilised, thinking, free being?

When you have trackers, trained dogs, snowmobiles and scoped modern rifles and pistols - you can certainly consider a cougar to be weaker than those hunters. It had no fucking chance - it was chased to the point of exhaustion, driven up a tree, cornered there by dogs where it was shot for fun. It's just fucking cowardly, and it's wrong. I'm sorry but killing a sentient being, purposely and without necessity is just fucking wrong.

Where's the cougar's freedom not to be fucking hounded and killed just so some fat old executive/bureacrat can brag about the lion he "outsmarted" (by hunting in a controlled environment supported by experts), and tell his raquetball buddies how "primal" it is to feel the joy of the kill.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Because it's not a human fucking being. Shit

 

[Jupiter551]

Um and?

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Where did you read how they track and kill their game? I've had friends partake in those hunting trips, you have a guide that will help you track down an animal the rest is up to you. They are merely middle class workers but you can stereotype and generalize all you like to make hunters look to be evil and ignorant neanderthals, just like how others stereotype and generalize how all camgirls are greedy deviants who ruin lives ruin marriages who ruin our moral society!

You can romanticize how all living things are equal to man as you scarf down on a burger. Everything you eat, was once alive. Are fruits and vegetables equal to animals, and thus equal to us too then? Because they too are alive. Do you make sure everything you put in your mouth lived a long happy life that died of natural causes at an old age? Or is that different because it's food, and you're a better human being because of it?

 

[Nordling]

Where did you read how they track and kill their game? I've had friends partake in those hunting trips, you have a guide that will help you track down an animal the rest is up to you. They are merely middle class workers but you can stereotype and generalize all you like to make hunters look to be evil and ignorant neanderthals, just like how others stereotype and generalize how all camgirls are greedy deviants who ruin lives ruin marriages who ruin our moral society!

You can romanticize how all living things are equal to man as you scarf down on a burger. Everything you eat, was once alive. Are fruits and vegetables equal to animals, and thus equal to us too then? Because they too are alive. Do you make sure everything you put in your mouth lived a long happy life that died of natural causes at an old age? Or is that different because it's food, and you're a better human being because of it?

You're missing the point I think. It's not killing for food or leather that's objectionable; it's the killing of SENTIENT animals for the joy of killing that's disgusting. Carrots and cantaloupes don't even have a central nervous system, so the comparison there is silly.

 

[Just Me]

Where did you read how they track and kill their game? I've had friends partake in those hunting trips, you have a guide that will help you track down an animal the rest is up to you. They are merely middle class workers but you can stereotype and generalize all you like to make hunters look to be evil and ignorant neanderthals, just like how others stereotype and generalize how all camgirls are greedy deviants who ruin lives ruin marriages who ruin our moral society!

You can romanticize how all living things are equal to man as you scarf down on a burger. Everything you eat, was once alive. Are fruits and vegetables equal to animals, and thus equal to us too then? Because they too are alive. Do you make sure everything you put in your mouth lived a long happy life that died of natural causes at an old age? Or is that different because it's food, and you're a better human being because of it?

You're missing the point I think. It's not killing for food or leather that's objectionable; it's the killing of SENTIENT animals for the joy of killing that's disgusting. Carrots and cantaloupes don't even have a central nervous system, so the comparison there is silly.

Will that same sentient animal give me the same consideration before they chomp down on me for just being nearby? I know it is not the same as killing for joy. But, obviously there is some deep seated need in some people to hunt this way. Many of us will never understand why. I certainly would never kill something just to say I have.

Maybe it would be better to just let our expansion into these animals territories kill them off rather than let people hunt them. I suppose that would be more palatable to most of us. Is it really better for a species to become extinct from our uncaring and unfeeling neglect or keep them around because some hunters are willing to pay enough money to hunt them for sport?

 

[Bocefish]

Here's some more info about his hunt...

Joseph Peterson, the guide who led Richards on the hunt in January at the 5,000-acre Flying B Ranch in northern Idaho, said Richards went to the ranch seeking to hunt pheasants. Peterson said that he asked Richards, whom he had not previously met, if he wanted to kill a mountain lion because the ranch was trying to stem a recent increase in the number of lions as a way to preserve deer and other big game popular with sport hunters there.

"He killed the cat as a favor to me, to help our predator management on the ranch," Peterson said, adding that he did not charge Richards the ranch's normal $6,800 fee for a lion hunt.

"The cat would have died if Dan was here or not," Peterson said.

Peterson said he tracked the lion for 15 hours, and Richards tracked it for about eight hours, through miles of hilly country in the snow. After the lion, a 3-year-old male, was driven up a tree by hunting dogs, Richards shot it, he said.

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_200 ... ost_viewed

Whether you believe in hunting or not, what he did was 100% legal.

 

[Shaun__]

Here's some more info about his hunt...

Joseph Peterson, the guide who led Richards on the hunt in January at the 5,000-acre Flying B Ranch in northern Idaho, said Richards went to the ranch seeking to hunt pheasants. Peterson said that he asked Richards, whom he had not previously met, if he wanted to kill a mountain lion because the ranch was trying to stem a recent increase in the number of lions as a way to preserve deer and other big game popular with sport hunters there.

"He killed the cat as a favor to me, to help our predator management on the ranch," Peterson said, adding that he did not charge Richards the ranch's normal $6,800 fee for a lion hunt.

"The cat would have died if Dan was here or not," Peterson said.

Peterson said he tracked the lion for 15 hours, and Richards tracked it for about eight hours, through miles of hilly country in the snow. After the lion, a 3-year-old male, was driven up a tree by hunting dogs, Richards shot it, he said.

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_200 ... ost_viewed

Whether you believe in hunting or not, what he did was 100% legal.

It sounds like the dogs did all the work, and all he did was kill a treed cat. Hunting would have been tracking it without the dogs by looking for signs, like paw prints. So he was not hunting he was following. I would not have minded if it had been a nuisance cat, but it seems like all it was doing was killing other wild animals. If it was like most big cats the deer it was killing were old and sick or very young, not big healthy trophy animals.

 

[Jupiter551]

Whether you believe in hunting or not, what he did was 100% legal.

Except for the fact that he's a public official who accepted a "gift" related to his role.

 

[Nordling]

Where did you read how they track and kill their game? I've had friends partake in those hunting trips, you have a guide that will help you track down an animal the rest is up to you. They are merely middle class workers but you can stereotype and generalize all you like to make hunters look to be evil and ignorant neanderthals, just like how others stereotype and generalize how all camgirls are greedy deviants who ruin lives ruin marriages who ruin our moral society!

You can romanticize how all living things are equal to man as you scarf down on a burger. Everything you eat, was once alive. Are fruits and vegetables equal to animals, and thus equal to us too then? Because they too are alive. Do you make sure everything you put in your mouth lived a long happy life that died of natural causes at an old age? Or is that different because it's food, and you're a better human being because of it?

You're missing the point I think. It's not killing for food or leather that's objectionable; it's the killing of SENTIENT animals for the joy of killing that's disgusting. Carrots and cantaloupes don't even have a central nervous system, so the comparison there is silly.

Will that same sentient animal give me the same consideration before they chomp down on me for just being nearby? I know it is not the same as killing for joy. But, obviously there is some deep seated need in some people to hunt this way. Many of us will never understand why. I certainly would never kill something just to say I have.

Maybe it would be better to just let our expansion into these animals territories kill them off rather than let people hunt them. I suppose that would be more palatable to most of us. Is it really better for a species to become extinct from our uncaring and unfeeling neglect or keep them around because some hunters are willing to pay enough money to hunt them for sport?

Or maybe quit expanding into their territory? Maybe the human race has already expanded too much? We're supposed to be thoughtful creatures but if so, why do we behave like rats? Why must we fill all available space at the expense of bio-diversity. When rats do this, the results at the end are not pretty. I'd hate for us to have to do what China does...limit how many children anyone may have; there's all kinds of problems with that. I'd prefer education to achieve ZPG.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

How is it a gift? He asked him to do so as a favor because of his profession therefore he has knowledge about what he's doing. Should his tracker have asked just some random guest instead? Tracked it for 8 hours through snow covered hills yeah it was a total cakewalk, I don't know how that translates to his dogs doing all the work minus the running the lion up a tree, but in either case this argument is going round n round in circles so I shall let you gents ride off into the sunset on your high horse to the next town to tell other people how to live their lives. God speed!

 

[Shaun__]

How is it a gift? He asked him to do so as a favor because of his profession therefore he has knowledge about what he's doing. Should his tracker have asked just some random guest instead? Tracked it for 8 hours through snow covered hills yeah it was a total cakewalk, I don't know how that translates to his dogs doing all the work minus the running the lion up a tree, but in either case this argument is going round n round in circles so I shall let you gents ride off into the sunset on your high horse to the next town to tell other people how to live their lives. God speed!

The dogs tracked it, and then chased it up a tree for him so he could shoot it without it running away. It was no real feat of greatness. Killing unarmed animals is not an impressive feat. This story reminds me of the mighty deer hunters who love to regale me with tales of how they sat on their asses until a deer with an impressive set of antlers walked by and they shot it. We are the most powerful omnivores that have ever walked on this planet, and no animal is any match for us. We can kill anything that we can find the general area of.

Shooting that cat then posing is the same as stealing candy from a baby and bragging how you overpowered it. It was just a scared animal running away. I have no problem with hunting for food, but trophy hunting is no different then frying ants with a magnifying glass.

 

[Jupiter551]

How is it a gift? He asked him to do so as a favor because of his profession therefore he has knowledge about what he's doing. Should his tracker have asked just some random guest instead?

Hahaha! You've gotta be kidding me, you think the people who run that ranch, who raise and train hunting dogs (who basically did everything other than pull the trigger), and who charge $6800 for a mountain lion hunt needed a guest's help? Oh yeah, I'm sure they're in the habit of giving away what is likely their most expensive service to a guest because you know, obviously they aren't capable of doing it themselves.
The article below clearly indicates that puma tracks were sighted and guests already staying at the ranch asked if they would like to hunt - the opportunity arose so they asked the current guests. Duh.
Tracked it for 8 hours through snow covered hills? They freaking followed the barking dogs and did the equivalent of a HIKE.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/02/BA221NFBVG.DTL&type=science

(Ranch manager Joseph Peterson) said Richards and a group of four or five others shot clay pigeons on the first afternoon and were planning to hunt birds the next couple of days. While they were hunting birds, he said, puma tracks were spotted by ranch workers, who then asked members of Richards' group whether they wanted to participate in a puma hunt.

"He said he would love to because he's never seen a mountain lion," Peterson said of Richards.

Several members of Richards' group were present, Peterson said, when three pumas were treed by hounds that day. Peterson said one of the cougars was shot by an employee and another was shot by a guest. The third was let go, Peterson said.

Richards knew Peterson was going out the next morning to look for more mountain lion tracks.

"He said if we found one of larger size he was interested in harvesting it," said Peterson, who fetched Richards when he spotted new tracks. "He was there when we set the hounds loose."

I love that btw, never seen a mountain lion...so FUCK YEAH I'd love to kill one!

 

[Nordling]

Ha! I love the words and phrases they use. "Harvest" it? Did they then grind it into flour and bake bread?

 

[Jupiter551]

Ha! I love the words and phrases they use. "Harvest" it? Did they then grind it into flour and bake bread?

Yeah it must make them feel better about shooting it, since it's just a "resource".

Boce I'd still like you to explain this cryptic sentence:

Ignorance has no boundaries compared to the above statement.

 

[Bocefish]

Ha! I love the words and phrases they use. "Harvest" it? Did they then grind it into flour and bake bread?

Yeah it must make them feel better about shooting it, since it's just a "resource".

Boce I'd still like you to explain this cryptic sentence:

Ignorance has no boundaries compared to the above statement.

If you go back and look where I used it, I figured one idiotic statement deserved another.

As to the HIKE comment, Richards said it was the hardest hunt of his life and he's been hunting since he was 10 years old. But of course, somebody that has no idea of what actually happened knows better.

As far as the gift acceptance... the ranchers were going to track and kill the cats regardless. They didn't even know each other prior to that day. The ranchers asked Richards' group if they wanted to participate, plain and simple.

Joseph Peterson, the guide who led Richards on the hunt in January at the 5,000-acre Flying B Ranch in northern Idaho, said Richards went to the ranch seeking to hunt pheasants. Peterson said that he asked Richards, whom he had not previously met, if he wanted to kill a mountain lion because the ranch was trying to stem a recent increase in the number of lions as a way to preserve deer and other big game popular with sport hunters there.

"He killed the cat as a favor to me, to help our predator management on the ranch," Peterson said, adding that he did not charge Richards the ranch's normal $6,800 fee for a lion hunt.

"The cat would have died if Dan was here or not," Peterson said.

Peterson said he tracked the lion for 15 hours, and Richards tracked it for about eight hours, through miles of hilly country in the snow. After the lion, a 3-year-old male, was driven up a tree by hunting dogs, Richards shot it, he said.

The only thing Richards is guilty of is offending the sensibilities of some of the more ignorant animal lovers and legislature. Some tree hugger types like petards place animals on a pedestal and seem to think they should be worshiped like gods. What if he caught a fish in Idaho that was off-limits in California due to state regulations and took a picture with it? Would he still be considered such an azzhole?

 

[Bocefish]

Ha! I love the words and phrases they use. "Harvest" it? Did they then grind it into flour and bake bread?

That is actually a conservation term used by professional wildlife managers, but you'd have to actually know something about conservation efforts to understand it.

 

[Bocefish]

I agree that hunting is sometimes for the greater good, but, for the record, paying to go shoot something at an enclosure is not hunting. The whole thing is weird and unnatural. That's like going to the butcher shop and doing a victory dance because you caught a steak. Lame. He'd probably have a better trophy wife and less of a gut if he was at least more sporting in his practices.

It wasn't a high fenced hunt, I'm not in favor of those either. Do you have any idea how large a 5000 acre ranch is? It's HUGE!

 

[Mirra]

Quite the spirited discussion! I feel PETA does a better job of disillusioning rational individuals and reducing the likelihood other organizations devoted to protecting animals will be taken seriously than it does at accomplishing its stated goals.

My personal stance on it all? PETA promotes itself. When I see a PETA commercial, protecting animals isn't the main message I see. When I hear Sarah McLachlan singing and the ASPCA commercial comes on, it's all about those poor, cute animals who haven't been treated properly. PETA is wrapped up in political agendas and making headlines. It's not actually accomplishing much to benefit the animals. It's really a shame that so many organizations dedicated to protecting others whether it be people or animals become more about sustaining themselves than making a POSITIVE difference and I feel PETA reached that point almost at its inception.

As for this hunting or not hunting the mountain lion thing I say "whatever." It does seem a bit hypocritical and perhaps displays a lack of foresight on his part. The more public your job profile, the more mindful of such politics you must be to succeed. That said, I've yet to meet someone who has never been hypocritical. Let's be glad we aren't all judged harshly for our moments of hypocrisy. Additionally, I personally feel those who can be honest about their hypocrisy are at least not delusional and am less likely to take issue with them.

As for much of the rest of what's been discussed, I find myself conflicted. I often find myself inclined towards what is likely considered the moral high-ground, but feel it is not up to me to pass judgement on others in this issue. Going back to the hypocrisy thing, I feel my own past and present hypocrisys often contradict what my mind finds to be the most pleasing concept.

In conclusion, I do not believe we will ever reach the point where all animals (or even people) are treated properly but striving for it is a nice idea and those who do so without degrading to some zealous existence are commendable. The rest of this discussion largely seems to be an impasse of differing opinions that I will be reserving my thoughts on.

 

[Bocefish]

Another thing to keep in mind is that California's current ban on hunting mountain lions is not based on any biological science. It was passed in 1990 via proposition 117 by everyday citizens that think they're majestic animals. Granted, they are some of the most beautiful animals in the states. They're also very skilled and capable hunters that kill and eat humans, children, pets and just about anything else they hunt with an approximate 85% success rate. Wildlife management is about balance and what's best for every species.

Whether you are ideologically opposed to hunting or not, the fact is it was legal and the big cats are a natural resource that need management. It's only a matter of time before wildlife biologists in California will also have to step in to manage their state's puma population.

There are an estimated 30,000 mountain lions in the western U.S, but only one mountain lion subspecies, the Florida panther, is critically endangered with a population of less than 100 individuals.

 

[Jupiter551]

If you go back and look where I used it, I figured one idiotic statement deserved another.

As to the HIKE comment, Richards said it was the hardest hunt of his life and he's been hunting since he was 10 years old. But of course, somebody that has no idea of what actually happened knows better.

As far as the gift acceptance... the ranchers were going to track and kill the cats regardless. They didn't even know each other prior to that day. The ranchers asked Richards' group if they wanted to participate, plain and simple.

Joseph Peterson, the guide who led Richards on the hunt in January at the 5,000-acre Flying B Ranch in northern Idaho, said Richards went to the ranch seeking to hunt pheasants. Peterson said that he asked Richards, whom he had not previously met, if he wanted to kill a mountain lion because the ranch was trying to stem a recent increase in the number of lions as a way to preserve deer and other big game popular with sport hunters there.

"He killed the cat as a favor to me, to help our predator management on the ranch," Peterson said, adding that he did not charge Richards the ranch's normal $6,800 fee for a lion hunt.

"The cat would have died if Dan was here or not," Peterson said.

Peterson said he tracked the lion for 15 hours, and Richards tracked it for about eight hours, through miles of hilly country in the snow. After the lion, a 3-year-old male, was driven up a tree by hunting dogs, Richards shot it, he said.

The only thing Richards is guilty of is offending the sensibilities of some of the more ignorant animal lovers and legislature. Some tree hugger types like petards place animals on a pedestal and seem to think they should be worshiped like gods. What if he caught a fish in Idaho that was off-limits in California due to state regulations and took a picture with it? Would he still be considered such an azzhole?

Hahah nice try with the nonsensical statement very believable :liar:

Likewise, the great story about how Richards was "helping the ranch out" in an attempt to avoid official corruption charges, everyone totally believes that :liar:

It was an 8 hour HIKE, followed by shooting a cat in a tree. He followed the dogs and shot it.

The ban on killing pumas in California is based on the will of the people of California - something Richards has shown he is completely out of touch with, and as a public official he's going to reap the "harvest" of that decision.

Mountain lions have been illegal to hunt in California since 1971 as I understand it? Over 40 years. They haven't caused a significant problem yet, their danger to humans is no more than any wild predator - they've killed vastly less people than "tame" dogs have for instance.

Whether I'm ideologically opposed to hunting or not, he is a public official who showed either ignorance or wilfully flaunted the attitudes and morals of the people he is employed to represent - and as such he will, one way or another, be forced to step down. He has no one to blame for that but his own stupidity.

 

[Bocefish]

The ban on killing pumas in California is based on the will of the people of California - something Richards has shown he is completely out of touch with, and as a public official he's going to reap the "harvest" of that decision.

What does that have to do with legally hunting a cougar in Idaho? Have you ever even been to the United States or know how laws can and do differ greatly from state to state?

Whether I'm ideologically opposed to hunting or not, he is a public official who showed either ignorance or wilfully flaunted the attitudes and morals of the people he is employed to represent - and as such he will, one way or another, be forced to step down. He has no one to blame for that but his own stupidity.

Once again, it's an entirely different state where he legally 'harvested' the animal with different laws, fees and license requirements. As the head of California's Fish & Game Dept. with all his experience, education and knowledge... do you really think you know more about wildlife management than him? Seriously? Do you think the bleeding hearts and legislature that voted for the California ban because the cats are cute know more than he does on the matter?

Gimme a fricking break! This is nothing but politics.

Mountain lion attacks on people in California have increased dramatically since 1986. From 1986 through 1995, ten verified attacks occurred, an average rate of one per year. That average rate has continued through 1999. Attacks are now numerous enough that there is a support group for attack victims, called California Lion Awareness (CLAW; Outside, 10/95).

Here is a list of cougar attacks in California:

http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks_ca.html

 

[Jupiter551]

I have been to the US 4 times, I'm aware laws are different state to state. You're right, it is politics, and in his appointment to a public state commission he is a politician. Do you think a police chief could get away with publicly travelling to a state where drugs were legal and going on a huge bender then sending photos to blogs etc? Esp. if said police chief was on a board that decided legality of drugs in his state? I think not.

It stopped being about his professional expertise on wildlife management when he exhibited a conflict of interest - it's also arrogance in the extreme to suggest the public don't have the intelligence to decide how their government should act, especially in a democratic republic.

 

[Just Me]

Where did you read how they track and kill their game? I've had friends partake in those hunting trips, you have a guide that will help you track down an animal the rest is up to you. They are merely middle class workers but you can stereotype and generalize all you like to make hunters look to be evil and ignorant neanderthals, just like how others stereotype and generalize how all camgirls are greedy deviants who ruin lives ruin marriages who ruin our moral society!

You can romanticize how all living things are equal to man as you scarf down on a burger. Everything you eat, was once alive. Are fruits and vegetables equal to animals, and thus equal to us too then? Because they too are alive. Do you make sure everything you put in your mouth lived a long happy life that died of natural causes at an old age? Or is that different because it's food, and you're a better human being because of it?

You're missing the point I think. It's not killing for food or leather that's objectionable; it's the killing of SENTIENT animals for the joy of killing that's disgusting. Carrots and cantaloupes don't even have a central nervous system, so the comparison there is silly.

Will that same sentient animal give me the same consideration before they chomp down on me for just being nearby? I know it is not the same as killing for joy. But, obviously there is some deep seated need in some people to hunt this way. Many of us will never understand why. I certainly would never kill something just to say I have.

Maybe it would be better to just let our expansion into these animals territories kill them off rather than let people hunt them. I suppose that would be more palatable to most of us. Is it really better for a species to become extinct from our uncaring and unfeeling neglect or keep them around because some hunters are willing to pay enough money to hunt them for sport?

Or maybe quit expanding into their territory? Maybe the human race has already expanded too much? We're supposed to be thoughtful creatures but if so, why do we behave like rats? Why must we fill all available space at the expense of bio-diversity. When rats do this, the results at the end are not pretty. I'd hate for us to have to do what China does...limit how many children anyone may have; there's all kinds of problems with that. I'd prefer education to achieve ZPG.

I certainly don't disagree with you. It reminded me of this joke http://9gag.com/gag/268265?ref=fb-share :lol:

 

[Bocefish]

There is no conflict of interest except the one that is in the minds of Californians that think cougars should NEVER be hunted.

That drug analogy is ridiculous. A far more accurate analogy would be if California had banned rainbow trout fishing and Richards went to another state to fish for the species legally. Would there still be a conflict of interest in their & your opinion?

 

[Jupiter551]

There is no conflict of interest except the one that is in the minds of Californians that think cougars should NEVER be hunted.

That drug analogy is ridiculous. A far more accurate analogy would be if California had banned rainbow trout fishing and Richards went to another state to fish for the species legally. Would there still be a conflict of interest in their & your opinion?

Californian voters don't have the right to decide about public policies?
Yes actually, he would be just as open for question if he had gone elsewhere to hunt or fish or kill any species that was illegal in his home state where he is involved in deciding legal hunting status.

The drug analogy is perfectly appropriate - tell me why it isn't please, and be specific. It involves a government appointee, able to influence legal status in his own state, responsible for enforcing in his own state, travelling elsewhere to partake in activities that he would arrest members of his own state's public for. It is perfectly suited.

http://bapp.org/human-impact

According to the California Department of Fish and Game, almost nine out of every ten reported puma sightings are not actually pumas. They are dogs, coyotes, bobcats, racoons, deer....even large house cats.

Though the increase in human-puma conflict is real and needs to be addressed, it's important to keep in persective that rather than challenging humans over the loss of their territory, pumas are quietly adapting to the encroachment and destruction of their habitat by adjusting their patterns, and are successfully avoiding conflicts with humans far more than we realize.