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Brilliant discussion(video) on Trigger Warnings, Free Speech, and safe spaces on college campuses

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LuckySmiles

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Sep 24, 2012
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I was in college 10 years ago, don't currently know any one who's been in college in a few years (outside of the internet) Up until pretty recently have been delightfully ignorant to how out of control things are amongst the younger whipper snappers at school.

A major focus of professors when I was in school were the limiting of freedoms in the first years after 9/11, and increased laws with things like the introduction of the Patriot Act. We re-read and analyzed things like 1984. In studying PR ethically looked at how organizations disguise advertisements as regular news stories, and debated certain strategies and where the line was (especially with medical and food industries) . Years before South Park's "Sponsored Content" episode. haha (Hipsters!) Things like that. But those issues resounded with me in college and still do today. Everyone cares about all the problems in the world in college, I get it.

And the more I learn about what's going on lately in colleges, the more I'm like holy shit what the hell happened. I just saw the stuff about Halloween at Yale the other day. Holy shit. haha.

 
My reaction to the vid is I can't understand why young(er) people would want to be viewed as too fragile to participate in a college lecture. Whaaat.

The more I learn all the requests on more restrictive laws by the students is breaking my little hippie liberal arts college educated heart. That's not good for anybody. That's backwards. People easily mock the laws still on the books about dildo's and ridiculous things, but increasingly want more laws related to personal activities & free speech and don't realize their doing the same exact thing in a different way. Whoa.
 
Before I go off on my hateful rant, just know I too, am a bleeding heart liberal. ;D

I was discussing this just yesterday with my boyfriend after I commented on a Facebook post. It's a MOTHERING/PREGNANCY page. Every damn post bears a "Trigger Warning" for pregnancy loss. While it is a devastating thing, sometimes you have to take some personal responsibility and say, maybe I shouldn't be following a pregnancy/mothering FB community if every post about pregnancy somehow triggers from the loss.

I admit as an anxious person, I have some of my own triggers, but I've addressed them in therapy, and I can't blame the whole of the Internet and expect them to coddle my every trigger. Waking up in my bathroom 8 years ago with no idea what happened? Yeah. That fucking sucked. I didn't leave my house for days. It put me into an emotionally fragile place for years. Just about every guy I saw in my dorm, I wondered if I had sex with him. I understand where they are at emotionally. The solution is to not censor everyone else.

I get this video is more about offline stuff. Also, I hate how this is representing "the left." I read another article on the same topic where a liberal professor said he's terrified of his liberal students. Hah.
 
Also I know the topic is of somewhat a political nature but really goes beyond that.

I'm not even sure what I'd align with politically anymore.
but this video made me be like omg thank you and feel a bit more sane again. I agreed with every part of it. But If you look at the news or any recent politics you have people saying things about the "left" and I'd be like "Wait what... I've never thought that way in my life..."

And then I'm thinking hmm maybe I'm more conservative politically.... but I don't like laws pertaining to personal things and there's a bad history with that...
And with feminism it's like... yayy women can like sex and own houses and be lawyers, doctors and do things and stuff woo feminism... and then you hear some of the ridiculous things coming out of people's mouths and you're like holy shit, I don't like these extremist people though...

I like people. I even like friendly cops. I am also not a racist. I don't like militarization of police forces. It's ok to think all those things at the time lol.
These are not radical political ideas. I'm not a radically political person.
What would that fall under. Middle of the road easy going normal personist. Cause than that's my political party. haha

Most of the time I want nothing to do with any of it. But really there is just so much wtf in every direction lately it's hard not to. I don't know if it's always been there and I just see it more now or what.
 
Also I know the topic is of somewhat a political nature but really goes beyond that.

I'm not even sure what I'd align with politically anymore.
but this video made me be like omg thank you and feel a bit more sane again. I agreed with every part of it. But If you look at the news or any recent politics you have people saying things about the "left" and I'd be like "Wait what... I've never thought that way in my life..."

And then I'm thinking hmm maybe I'm more conservative politically.... but I don't like laws pertaining to personal things and there's a bad history with that...

Maybe it's time you took the Political Orientation test. See if someone on this forum can finally join me in that upper right quadrant!

All through that video I kept thinking one thing (well two really, but the 2nd I may not mention). The college kids they're talking about really don't know their history. So glad when she finally said the same thing toward the end. A law to make catcalling illegal. OMG grow a pair already. We already have a law oppressive police state. There's over 10,000 federal laws on the books so you can be arrested for things you don't even know are illegal. To give away more power based on something so frivolous and downright stupid is asinine.

You go to college to learn and to learn 'how to learn.' It's not your home, it's not your freaking safe space. If you are at that level of infantile thinking, where you need a room with puppy videos playing for times you hear anything against your warped sense of reality, then stay at home with your parents; you aren't ready for the real world.

Basically I'm betting they weren't spanked enough as a kid. (okay, i mentioned the 2nd thing)
 
Thank you for the video. It is interesting. I only have one real experience with the catcalling thing in my years of life.

I work at a college library and in my first two years working there (maybe 13 years ago or so), a "pastor" and also one of the cleaning crew--a "have-not" in terms of the video-- mostly one of those who I tried to be nice to (along with everyone else) said: "A lot of beautiful women around here"...it was in a public space and I just flippantly agreed with him in passing: "Yeah there are." I looked up, and noticed one of the student workers was looking at me. She heard the whole word exchange.

I knew I was in trouble at that very moment. There were a few people that didn't like me for whatever reason and the gossip was so rampant then....I knew it would be an issue. A few days passed and I was doing my thing and the student worker was working and she knelt down beside me, and said "sorry"...which was weird, but also gave me a sense that something was going on (an apology was not necessary).

So the next department meeting, days later, this gets brought up and the department head lays it all on the cleaning guy. He made an observation, but by the huge smile from the coworker who repeated the story to her and the fact that the department head was looking straight at me, I knew I was the one being reprimanded and we aren't supposed to do that...maybe I am a creep... I don't think so, and I think it is more subjective than anything (fuck, I would see the security guy giving backrubs to student worker women, but he was well liked--wtf?). I did learn though: I need to Shut the fuck up. And I think I have...even on MFC, it's always a struggle to tell a woman that she is beautiful. I'd rather just say that I think the person is cool...but there are a few people who enjoy my words and I can express my feelings with (and for that I am greatly appreciative).
 
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@JerryBoBerry Those tests never come out right to me. My results say Left Libertarian but some of the things it says I should favor in the summary I don't. The question about people being lucky probably threw it off har har har.
I also think spanking has nothing to do with being a responsible and rational adult. lol.
I'd never hit a kid, and I know plenty of well adjusted rational and kind people who've never experienced that. Myself included ;)

I agree that there is a lack of history at part of the problem, as well as regular rational people not wanting to get involved in these things, or taking them seriously because there are enough problems without creating more.
 
Thank you for the video. It is interesting. I only have one real experience with the catcalling thing in my years of life.

I work at a college library and in my first two years working there (maybe 13 years ago or so), a "pastor" and also one of the cleaning crew--a "have-not" in terms of the video-- mostly one of those who I tried to be nice to (along with everyone else) said: "A lot of beautiful women around here"...it was in a public space and I just flippantly agreed with him in passing: "Yeah there are." I looked up, and noticed one of the student workers was looking at me. She heard the whole word exchange.

I knew I was in trouble at that very moment. There were a few people that didn't like me for whatever reason and the gossip was so rampant then....I knew it would be an issue. A few days passed and I was doing my thing and the student worker was working and she knelt down beside me, and said "sorry"...which was weird, but also gave me a sense that something was going on (an apology was not necessary).

So the next department meeting, days later, this gets brought up and the department head lays it all on the cleaning guy. He made an observation, but by the huge smile from the coworker who repeated the story to her and the fact that the department head was looking straight at me, I knew I was the one being reprimanded and we aren't supposed to do that...maybe I am a creep... I don't think so, and I think it is more subjective than anything (fuck, I would see the security guy giving backrubs to student worker women, but he was well liked--wtf?). I did learn though: I need to Shut the fuck up. And I think I have...even on MFC, it's always a struggle to tell a woman that she is beautiful. I'd rather just say that I think the person is cool...but there are a few people who enjoy my words and I can express my feelings with (and for that I am greatly appreciative).

This is really sad and what's kind of insane. Saying people are beautiful isn't even threatening it's an observation. wtf

I grew up in NY long enough ago where everyone walked places and did things by themselves from a young age and maybe women are naturally more aggressive/less fearful as a result of these sorts of things.

I know of a mother daughter who took the same bus to work at the same stop/time every morning for a while. The daughter was very attractive and around 18-20. The mother in her 40s or 50s at the time. And when an obnoxious guy would drive by and beep and holler(obviously at the younger woman) The mom would kind of pose and shimmy and be like "oh thank you!"
And it was a hilarious thing. To me that's feminism... being able to make fun of someone that's acting like a jerk without being stoned to death.. not like... taking down their license plate and calling the police.

I like that they mentioned humor in that vid too.
 
The issues are so alien to me. On one hand I hear people talking about how women and some men need to "grow a pair" and not be so sensitive to what people say...then I witness online, the most horrendous level of bad manners I've ever seen in my life. So what is true? I'm suspicious of "grow a pair," since bromides rarely solve anything, but what is up with the level of rudeness and the level of saying people are too sensitive?

Maybe the answer is a compromise. People need to learn to respect each other and people need to learn to deal with rudeness.
 
The issues are so alien to me. On one hand I hear people talking about how women and some men need to "grow a pair" and not be so sensitive to what people say...then I witness online, the most horrendous level of bad manners I've ever seen in my life. So what is true? I'm suspicious of "grow a pair," since bromides rarely solve anything, but what is up with the level of rudeness and the level of saying people are too sensitive?

Maybe the answer is a compromise. People need to learn to respect each other and people need to learn to deal with rudeness.

I think the key word is ONLINE. Pretty much every form of social media has mechanisms for blocking, ignoring, and/or reporting people who are harassing you. I much more sympathetic to the woman (primarily) who get harassed on the streets than people who complain about online abuse.

As the old nurse rhyme went "sticks and stones may break my point, but words will never hurt me."
Yes some people are assholes, and the anonymity makes more asshole online than offline.

I think attempting to control what people say is a fool's errand. Moreover in the USA you have constitutionally protected right to say offensive things. In fact, you can be an asshole (See Synder vs Phelps AKA Westboro Baptist Church) for an example of just how big asshole you can be.

You generally can't change others people's behaviors. You do have complete control over how you react to others peoples words. I believe rather than establishing speech codes, safe spaces, sensitivity training etc, students would be better served in the real world if they learned coping mechanism to deal with offensive speech. So yes growing a pair.
 
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You generally can't change others people's behaviors. You do have complete control over how you react to others peoples words. I believe rather than establishing speech codes, safe spaces, sensitivity training etc, students would be better served in the real world if they learned coping mechanism to deal with offensive speech. So yes growing a pair.

This part is especially relevant of the request in the banning of halloween costumes at the school because of fear of offensive costumes...
The dean and/or professor was like look we're not banning it, if something bothers you take it as an opportunity to use your words with the person have a civil discussion about why it's offensive, and learn from one another. That's a perfect response

And the students freaked out and called for their resignations.... what the effing hell....
 
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I think the key word is ONLINE. Pretty much every form of social media has mechanisms for blocking, ignoring, and/or reporting people who are harassing you. I much more sympathetic to the woman (primarily) who get harassed on the streets than people who complain about online abuse.

As the old nurse rhyme went "sticks and stones may break my point, but words will never hurt me."
Yes some people are assholes, and the anonymity makes more asshole online than offline.

I think attempting to control what people say is a fool's errand. Moreover in the USA you have constitutionally protected right to say offensive things. In fact, you can be an asshole (See Synder vs Phelps AKA Westboro Baptist Church) for an example of just how big asshole you can be.

You generally can't change others people's behaviors. You do have complete control over how you react to others peoples words. I believe rather than establishing speech codes, safe spaces, sensitivity training etc, students would be better served in the real world if they learned coping mechanism to deal with offensive speech. So yes growing a pair.
True, you can't control what people say, but still it's not about "growing a pair," which is just a silly mantra. The question is, why are people more rude today than 50 years ago, and how can society mitigate it...without forbidding free speech? Personally I think education is the key, and it is a fact that education in the US, which used to be world renowned, has become stale and unsupported.
 
If you are harassing someone IRL or online, that should be penalized. Defamation and slander are laws to prevent this. It is normal for someone to want to protect their names and their safety from people who want to harm them. But that is not what the video is about. When we complain about campus culture we are talking about people who want to censor your speech just because they don't agree with you. There is an expectation that if you don't say the right things politically speaking you should be silenced by the authorities. It doesn't only happen in campus either. It happens almost everywhere, even on this forum. What would happen on ACF if someone says they think women shouldn't vote, for example? There is a big chance that after insulting them and shunning them and calling them sexist someone would ask for the member to be banned from the forums on the grounds of "hate speech". Instead of engaging the person in a debate and asking him why he believes women shouldn't vote, people would go on lynching mode.

And this is absolutely a leftist thing. For two reasons: the left is the ideology in power. Left controls the media, the faculties of most universities and the public schools, and even most political institutions. Even if the right aspired to apply their ideology in this manner it simply doesn't have the power to do it. And beyond that, the political correctness we are seeing is not an accident, it has been a part of the Marxist agenda since the 50s, it is the way they disseminate the subversion of western values through culture. It is so pervasive now that most people who push for this to be enforced have no clue where it comes from or what the objective is, they are simply useful idiots.
 
If you are harassing someone IRL or online, that should be penalized. Defamation and slander are laws to prevent this. It is normal for someone to want to protect their names and their safety from people who want to harm them. But that is not what the video is about. When we complain about campus culture we are talking about people who want to censor your speech just because they don't agree with you. There is an expectation that if you don't say the right things politically speaking you should be silenced by the authorities. It doesn't only happen in campus either. It happens almost everywhere, even on this forum. What would happen on ACF if someone says they think women shouldn't vote, for example? There is a big chance that after insulting them and shunning them and calling them sexist someone would ask for the member to be banned from the forums on the grounds of "hate speech". Instead of engaging the person in a debate and asking him why he believes women shouldn't vote, people would go on lynching mode.

And this is absolutely a leftist thing. For two reasons: the left is the ideology in power. Left controls the media, the faculties of most universities and the public schools, and even most political institutions. Even if the right aspired to apply their ideology in this manner it simply doesn't have the power to do it. And beyond that, the political correctness we are seeing is not an accident, it has been a part of the Marxist agenda since the 50s, it is the way they disseminate the subversion of western values through culture. It is so pervasive now that most people who push for this to be enforced have no clue where it comes from or what the objective is, they are simply useful idiots.

I'm glad you posted! I have a lot of confusion on some of what your saying but certain aspects are starting to make more sense to me.

I'm used to the liberal artsy fartsy comments based on my college education. But lately people say things that are labeled liberal or left, and I don't share those values or even remember being taught in that way when I was in college. It was a public college and my professors all had the fear of limited free speech, and were always beating over our heads to be real journalists ask real questions and don't believe most of what you see on broadcast news. I had a journalism professor who worked at FOX and CNN. And when everyone would be like "haha stupid Fox news amiright" he'd correct everyone on how they're both terrible and biased with agendas.

So you When you say "Marxist agenda since the 50's" I'm a little lost. It makes more sense to me now in some regards. But are you saying there's specific leaders that push this in multiple countries? That's what I don't understand. All the Americans older than me grew up during the Cold War where everyone was very fearful of communism. I can see how it does play out a bit I guess I'm just confused on if you are saying it's certain people who have this ultimate agenda or just that it's a belief system that's continued to permeate things by some sort of osmosis and lingering beliefs?

Sometimes I look more into conservatism or the "Right" thinking parts of it do make more sense, and promote more individual freedom. I always had religious primary education that seemed to encourage women more to be good at math and science than public school and ultimately more "Feminist" ideals despite being Catholic.

But certain aspects of conservatism seem to be so influenced on religion that it does violate individual freedoms. And then you have the Pope all buddy buddy with Obama and I'm even more lost.
 
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I know it sounds crazy because nobody talks about this but the Church too is trying to align itself with this new marxist culture. That is why the new Pope aligns with Obama, and preaches against climate change, for tolerance of islam, for shaming of Western culture, against white history, etc.

Culture subversion (propaganda spreading) has been more successful in certain institutions than in others. There is 20 year gap in this from colleges like Berkeley or NYU in contrast with say.. The University of Chicago or the University of Virginia. And this also happens with faculties. You will find much more censorship in liberal arts and pure sciences than you will find in engineering or law school. This is why depending on your University and your faculty all this might sound alien to you. Even within the liberal arts faculties careers like journalism are about 10 years behind sociology or anthropology. But all in all, there is a major trend towards marxism and it is easy to see when you compare current campus culture with the culture of universities in the 50s and before.

Campuses propagate this ideology as if it was "the truth". But it is not the truth and it is easy to see when only certain people have to be censored and there are others whose speech is protected beyond all reason. If it was a matter simply of protecting students sensitivity, and not a matter of propaganda, it wouldn't be acceptable for the Muslim Students Association to host a "Hitler Youth Week" on an american campus because it would offend the jews. And yet, they do get to host it. On the other hand, celebrating 9/11 causes an outcry because it is offensive to Muslims who do need to be protected. The same happens with Men vs. Women, with Heterosexual vs. Homosexual, with White vs. Black, etc. It is always one side being censored and the other side being elevated. The same thing happens with ideology. It is only the right that is constantly punished to the point in which right wing arguments have been completely erased from the landscape and nobody even knows what it means anymore or where they stand because things that aren't allowed to be said are impossible to think about. Welcome to 1984.

This did start as a subversive movement in the 50s, engineered by the KGB. In the 60s marxist scholars had already taken the liberal arts faculties of the most important universities hostage and by now the subversion is almost complete. I am not saying every person who takes part on this knows the origin, the scope, or the objectives behind this subversion, they did at the very beginning, but by now it has spread so much that it has replaced our cultural "soul" with marxism so the vast majority of the people spreading propaganda aren't even aware they are doing it, which is why it is so successful.

If you feel like it, you can watch this interview to Yuri Bezmenov, he was a key figure within the KGB, he defected, escaped, and on this interview he explains what they were doing and how cultural subversion works.



Edit: this is for the people who don't have the time or the patience to watch the entire interview, here is the part where he talks about propaganda and subversion:



Edit #2: grammar
 
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^^I eat this kind of thing up. I have a weird crush on this man and his voice now haha.
 
This did start as a subversive movement in the 50s, engineered by the KGB. In the 60s marxist scholars had already taken the liberal arts faculties of the most important universities hostage and by now the subversion is almost complete. I am not saying every person who takes part on this knows the origin, the scope, or the objectives behind this subversion, they did at the very beginning, but by now it has spread so much that it has replaced our cultural "soul" with marxism so the vast majority of the people spreading propaganda aren't even aware they are doing it, which is why it is so successful.

Successful? They failed. Western culture ended up being far more successful in undermining Soviet culture than the other way around. The old KGB mentality is still around, however, personified by Vladimir Putin, and they are once again attempting to undermine Western society, however instead of leading it toward communism, they are trying to lead it in the direction of neofascism. The irony is that the very people who eat up Putin's strongman shenanigans are the same ones who scream about their liberties being eroded by things like socialized medicine, when are completely ignorant of how restricted they would be in the Motherland.

Right-wing dissenters in the West are just as free to say what they want now as left-wing dissenters were in the 70s and 80s. And, under a totalitarian regime, neither would have a voice. Rednecks in the woods with guns would be no more welcome than hippies in the streets with placards.
 
KGB propaganda was a weapon devised to subvert the enemy's culture (Western Civilization). Not their own. What you see in Russia today is (to some extent) what a society without subversion looks like. They do have a dictatorship going on and their own culture's shortcomings too, but in general Russia did not succumb to the Frankfurt School and ideological warfare because it made no sense. Russia was already communist, they didn't need to win any battles at home. This is why at the same time the communist intelligentsia was normalizing homosexuality in the West, Fidel Castro had concentration camps for gays in Cuba. Subversion makes a society weak. They wouldn't apply it on themselves.
 
True, you can't control what people say, but still it's not about "growing a pair," which is just a silly mantra. The question is, why are people more rude today than 50 years ago, and how can society mitigate it...without forbidding free speech? Personally I think education is the key, and it is a fact that education in the US, which used to be world renowned, has become stale and unsupported.

Why do you think people are ruder now than 50 years ago? People curse more now than the did 50 years ago, and I suppose there was more of a veneer of politeness in upper class than today. Online didn't exist 50 years ago.

But when I was in grade school during that time, both kids and adults (generally when woman weren't present) commonly used words like these. Spic/beaner/greaser;nigger/darkie;retard/moron;fag/queer/homo; cripple/spaz;fatso/blimp/porker;kike;wop;ugly/two-bags/zit-face. And these were real insults, not jokes. I think I heard these a few times a day, nowadays I suspect the average person doesn't hear much less use these a once a month. Except for Rap songs, and blacks jokingly calling each other nigger.

As for education, while I agree somewhat with you on the quality, quantitively American are lot more educated now than ever before. In 1965, only 55% of the population had a high school diploma vs almost 90% today. 10% had a college diploma vs over 30% today.

I think people are just a lot more thin-skinned than they used to be.
 
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Why do you think people are ruder now than 50 years ago? People curse more now than the did 50 years ago, and I suppose there was more of a veneer of politeness in upper class than today. Online didn't exist 50 years ago.

But when I was in grade school during that time, both kids and adults (generally when woman weren't present) commonly used words like these. Spic/beaner/greaser;nigger/darkie;retard/moron;fag/queer/homo; cripple/spaz;fatso/blimp/porker;kike;wop;ugly/two-bags/zit-face. And these were real insults, not jokes. I think I heard these a few times a day, nowadays I suspect the average person doesn't hear much less use these a once a month. Except for Rap songs, and blacks jokingly calling each other nigger.

As for education, while I agree somewhat with you on the quality, quantitively American are lot more educated now than ever before. In 1965, only 55% of the population had a high school diploma vs almost 90% today. 10% had a college diploma vs over 30% today.

I think people are just a lot more thin-skinned than they used to be.
Well, yeah, the rudeness of 50 years ago has moved out of the locker room and into the street.

I'm not sure citing the prevalence of diplomas is particularly useful. (do have a link to that btw?) What is the value of a diploma today vs 50 years ago? Do people receive diplomas now with more or less actual education?
 
Well, yeah, the rudeness of 50 years ago has moved out of the locker room and into the street.

I'm not sure citing the prevalence of diplomas is particularly useful. (do have a link to that btw?) What is the value of a diploma today vs 50 years ago? Do people receive diplomas now with more or less actual education?

What do you mean by the street? Do you really think that catcalls are more common now than there were 50 or even 25 year ago? Do you have any proof? How are people ruder now than they were in the past?

Google is your friend but here is a link
http://www.russellsage.org/sites/all/files/chartbook/Educational Attainment and Achievement.pdf
You said education is the key, and I actually agree with you. The good news is we've had a more than a generation raised with sensitivity training, anti-bullying programs, and low tolerance on the part of society for racial/sexual orientation slurs or even calling people fat or ugly. None of these programs existed 50 years ago. It was actually a big deal to convince white Americans that calling blacks "a nigger" was not acceptable. I think society as far more polite and sensitive now than when I was growing up.
The problem is that at this point the people most in need of sensitivity training and such, are the ones least likely to pay attention. So teaching people how to deal with/ignore assholes rather than subjecting the rest of us to yet another sensitivity training course, I think is a better strategy.
 
What do you mean by the street? Do you really think that catcalls are more common now than there were 50 or even 25 year ago? Do you have any proof? How are people ruder now than they were in the past?

Google is your friend but here is a link
http://www.russellsage.org/sites/all/files/chartbook/Educational Attainment and Achievement.pdf
You said education is the key, and I actually agree with you. The good news is we've had a more than a generation raised with sensitivity training, anti-bullying programs, and low tolerance on the part of society for racial/sexual orientation slurs or even calling people fat or ugly. None of these programs existed 50 years ago. It was actually a big deal to convince white Americans that calling blacks "a nigger" was not acceptable. I think society as far more polite and sensitive now than when I was growing up.
The problem is that at this point the people most in need of sensitivity training and such, are the ones least likely to pay attention. So teaching people how to deal with/ignore assholes rather than subjecting the rest of us to yet another sensitivity training course, I think is a better strategy.
By "the street" I meant that rude comments are now not limited to locker rooms, dorm rooms, and other "private" areas. Anecdotal I admit but I just seem to notice people being more openly rude now than before, although yes, it has always been with us, just kept under the rug. Maybe the problem is that instead of people being "overly sensitive," that the opposite is true. I've noticed a lot of people bragging about how tolerant of insensitivity they are. "Grow a pair." So, as a society we are shamed into accepting the unacceptable, since we don't want to appear to not own testicles...although I really don't know what that has to do with anything. Is accepting rudeness limited to men and masculine women?

Yeah, "sensitivity training" hasn't seemed to effect a change...we hear of bullying, e.g., now more than ever.
 
I am a college student (who should be writing papers right now, haha) and a feminist so I'm always interested to see how this stuff is discussed. Things definitely don't feel that way at my school, though this was a recent op-ed about a different Canadian school that sort of follows the train of thought. I don't go to a super liberal school, but I'm an Arts student and I took a few women's studies courses in my first year, so I did get exposed to what I think is as close to what she's discussing as you'd get at my uni.

Anyways I have a bunch of random thoughts so I'm just going to sound off on them, haha.

Trigger warnings in general, which they talked about a bit at the beginning of the video mostly - I feel that in general it's much ado about nothing. For example in one of my classes, we watched a film with a pretty brutal rape scene. We watched it in class but the prof told us ahead of time that it was quite brutal and if we wanted/needed to leave, that was fine. It didn't really feel like coddling or "oh no this will give you PTSD!" so much as acknowledging that it's pretty hard to watch (for anyone!) and if you don't want to sit in a classroom hearing rape in surround sound, that's okay. The prof didn't make a big deal about it and neither did the students, it just was a heads up and a few people left. I have seen a lot of people go overboard with asking for trigger warnings (this one is my favourite), I don't think we should have trigger warnings for every possible thing ever. If someone can't deal with whatever the topic is, let them skip or drop the class. But at least respect your students enough to let them decide that for themselves. I also kind of resent the fact that trigger warnings are a huge joke because I do think they can be useful for a lot of people, and they do come from a serious place of trying to help rape victims and veterans deal with their PTSD in a better way. It sucks that that has turned into such a mess with overusage. But I also don't agree with the notion that all college students are just oversensitive babies who need to be exposed to the real world and all that rabble that comes up with the topic. To me it's fairly straightforward - like adding a note on the syllabus and letting students decide for themselves. I think that puts the onus on the student and lets them choose for themselves.

Catcalling, I definitely don't think there should be laws against it - we have laws against harassment already. She mentioned that there's no distinction in the reaction to someone saying "hey beautiful" and something more sinister. I have seen that a lot online, there is often no room given for error or growth, the response to anything being "problematic" is MAX LEVEL 10. Joss Whedon wrote a Black Widow characterization we don't like, he is garbage, throw him out. It's quite black-and-white thinking. A bit of a tangent from her point but an interesting one. I think this has gotten a little bit better - I hope that the "call out culture" is a growing pain along the way to a more balanced way of thinking. But it's still definitely an issue. Anyways, catcalling sucks and I wish it would stop. That's pretty much the crux of my thoughts on that, haha.

One of my courses this semester was about a stereotypically genedered issue - one of those things like the wage gap or rape stats where you feel you have a pretty good idea of "this is something that happens to women, by men, primarily". My prof (who I fucking love, he is brilliant) presented us solely with data to counter that - showing that it was actually primarily men affected by this. His data, like most data, was chosen to illustrate his point. Someone on RateMyProf (from a previous semester) said his work was very misogynistic. Personally - I found it pretty interesting. It challenged what I thought, inspired me to read more deeply into the research he presented us with, and to read more deeply into previous research that had supported my original opinion. I also talked to my family member who works sort of related to the topic to get more information from his anecdotal "front line" perspective. At the end - I didn't totally agree with all of the info my prof shared. Some of the research tactics were a bit sketchy or SO specific that I think it's unethical to generalize. Other stuff that he shared was pretty interesting, looked legit (after my expert deconstruction, hahah), and helped me to get a better understanding of the issue. Interegating the material that closely helped me to broaden my own views and strengthen my own thoughts. And I now know the info inside and out so I will ace the final :D (I should do that for all my classes!)

I think this is what Christina Hoff Sommers is getting at - that she wants students to say "this data you're presenting doesn't sit right with me - I'm going to work with it and figure it out"? I think that's fair. We as students now are incredibly lucky to have access to aaaaaaaaanything we want to learn about. I felt like I got more out of the class than if I'd said "what a sexist, fuck this guy". At the same time I often feel the ~anti-SJW~ or anti-feminist types do exactly that: "this is feminazi bullshit, fuck that" rather than having any kind of respectful engagement (key word: respectful!). I like having discussions and looking at different viewpoints than my own but often times it feels like someone trying to lecture me (...not my prof, who is in fact paid to lecture me :D) or condescend me. I don't like having these discussions with someone who's mind is made up that they are trying to Prove Me Wrong rather than talk about an issue. I think this happens a lot to students with people saying "you'll grow up and realize how wrong you are" (like the comments on that first article linked up there, saying all students are Liberals until they grow up into Conservatives). Even if that were/is true - it's condescending, immediately shows you have no respect or interest in anything but patting your own intelligence on the back. A lot of discussions about students seem to come from the "stupid kids, they think they know everything, they're so dumb" mindset and that is never going to be productive.

I like Christina Hoff Sommers, I don't agree with all of what she says and I think she comes off, at times, a bit condescending. But she is obviously an incredibly smart woman, inspiring, and I think she raises a lot of good points. A lot of her videos, even the parts I disagree with, at the very least get me to think and to consider why I think the way I do/where my information comes from. I really liked when she said that she's changed her mind a thousand times and will again, I feel the same way and I think that's important when talking about students - young people are coming into their own, shaping their opinions, and while it is problematic to cover your ears and say "lalala take me to the puppy room" at anything you disagree with, I think the best approach is to try and engage positively with them. If she came to my campus I would go see her speak and feel fortunate if I got to have a beer with her after :D I would also like the room of puppy videos though because that sounds cute as fuck.

(I have so many feelings about these topics in general, beyond just this video, but alas, I've probably written more in this post than my essay that's due at midnight, so oops...!)
 
I think elements of the result of this kind of subversion can be seen in what currently happens when their is dissent within groups for the same cause.

The original video I posted she talks about modern feminism and how anyone tries to argue against some of the ideas is kind of "kicked out" or not a "real feminist."

It's the first video I'd seen with Christina Hoff Sommers, and she seems like an intelligent woman and what people would consider a feminist. She talks about reactions to her speaking on a college campus as though she's some sort of horrible enemy to women. That's how dissent is handled in America among people who are generally for the same ideals.

I'd consider myself and most of the women I know in my personal life feminists, whether intentionally or not. I'm not a very sensitive person and I like bad words but I'm fairly soft spoken and polite the majority of the time in public and social interactions. I'd never consider that to be weak. Yet there's this trend witnessed in modern feminism that being outspoken or a bully is necessary to "defeat the patriarchy" or whatever the goal is.

Did you ever see the movie American Gangster? "The loudest one in the room, is the weakest one in the room." I love that quote. That's how I was raised, if you have point to make, no one's going to listen or take you seriously if your yelling and screaming and carrying on like a lunatic. Having civil discussions are necessary to change genuine problems.

That's why when Yuri Bezmenov talks of subversion in the interview I can't deny part of it make sense to me. I'm constantly trying to sift through different news outlets and trying to find the least bias articles and figure out what the truth is when it comes to certain issues and it's nearly impossible. I'm also often wondering why people on the same sides of issues are constantly fighting with each other in unproductive manners. And I'm not saying I haven't done it.
But when you look at that as almost a tactic to keep people from being united on important ideas, you can't deny it feels that way sometimes.

I've always tried to be inclusive to others and their personal experiences and ideas, but if I say, "I don't like it when people say 'fuck cops'" there are people who are inclined to believe I'm racist. Anyone who knows me wouldn't think that for a second. That's what people do more lately they're kind of "programmed" to assign bias to people without further discussion based on singular statements. Whether you believe America is intentionally being turned communist or not, it's hard to argue that some of this rings true in recent cultural behavior.
 
Silencing dissent in a politically correct environment is always done in an aggressive way. Sometimes it is about kicking and screaming like @LuckySmiles pointed out, but there are other methods that are often used too like disqualifying someone a priori, or making fun of the arguments or of the person speaking without addressing the subject.

Here is a good example of this: I posted something that I believe is valuable, and I did it in a serious manner and yet @GenXoxo rated it as "funny" instead of addressing what I said. Why? Because she doesn't agree with me instead of simply ignoring my comment or using arguments to explain why she disagrees with it. If she was a new user her behaviour might be considered "trolling". By labeling my serious post "funny" she is saying "this post can't be taken seriously" without offering any actual argument. The next person that reads my post and sees her "funny" rating is more inclined to either ignore my post or ridicule it rather than watch the video I posted. And the people who watched it and thought it was good or useful will feel ashamed to admit it. She then goes ahead and writes a serious post of her own experience explaining ALL HER FEELS and I bet she would feel very offended if someone labeled her post that way.

Here is the thing: nobody can disagree or agree with feelings, they are just that: feelings. When you debate a topic usually the point is to arrive at some truth, and to discard false ideas, or at least to get a better understanding of the different implications. The left however, doesn't need this process. They already know what the truth is after all (their ideology) and the only thing left to do is explain your own feelings. The thing they cannot risk is having to debate them because their ideology is so easy to knock down.
 
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You can rate my post however you like, Mila, I promise I won't get offended. I rated it funny because I think it's funny to end a post by essentially saying anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. I think that's a funny mindset, and not a productive one if you want to actually have a debate, but not one I passionately care about enough to bother arguing about. I'm not sure anyone would consider my one rating against your post to be trolling, but I see what you're getting at.

My post of ~all my feels~ was meant to address the original topic, which was a discussion of our experiences with trigger warnings/safe spaces/this video/etc. It was to add to the discussion, not a debate.
 
You can rate my post however you like, Mila, I promise I won't get offended. I rated it funny because I think it's funny to end a post by essentially saying anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. I think that's a funny mindset, and not a productive one if you want to actually have a debate, but not one I passionately care about enough to bother arguing about. I'm not sure anyone would consider my one rating against your post to be trolling, but I see what you're getting at.

If you watch the videos she posted you'll have a better understanding of what she likely meant by the term "useful idiots." It's mentioned several times and makes sense in that context.
I don't believe she meant it as an attack or what you're interpreting here.
 
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Politically, I'm probably closer to in my views to SuperMila than Gen, but honestly Mila I cringe at your generalizations at times.
"The left however, doesn't need this process. They already know what the truth is after all (their ideology) and the only thing left to do is explain your own feelings."
That's a pretty silly generalization in any case. Clearly, there are some college students who swallow the left's propoganda uncritically, but in age of Google I know it's a minority, and I believe it is less common than when I went to school.

You post this right after Gen posts, that she had a male professor who provided her with data that wasn't politically correct, challenged her beliefs, and she changed some her thinking, and encouraged her to do research. This is the antithesis of liberals only deal with feelings. I'm delighted to know that, at least in Canada, male professors are actually allowed to teach "woman" issue, and even more happy that young woman like Gen take them seriously. That to me is the essence of a good college experience.

As for you video, I watched about 15 minutes of it. I didn't find it particularly relevant, and this from somebody old enough to remember the cold war. At one point in my life I was going to be a ICBM operator awaiting the order turn the key and to finish WWIII, so I paid more attention to cold war stuff than most people. As Sevrin pointed the Soviets pretty much failed in their mission subvert the West, and fell victim to Blue Jeans, Pepsi, Rock and Roll, as well as their own absurd economic system, and dyspotic political system. Compared to the threat that Islamist represent, Commie propogranda and even crafty Putin are pretty low priority.
 
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