But how do you know the good from the bad, especially when performers who want to keep performing have a vested interest in being quiet about assaults?
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CamGirls: The Movie and the Drama
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They are not paid to be assaulted, they are paid to do what the script says. If they have told the director and producer what they are not comfortable doing there should only be two choice, cast some one else for the role that is comfortable doing those things or stopping the shooting momentarily if they notice things going in a direction that they are not supposed to and that is why a director is called a director. Having to yell cut isn't a big deal when you are shooting on digital, you don't have the cost of film to worry about and editing is easier before so there is no good reason to continue shooting . It doesn't matter that it is tame compared to other movies, you do what has been agreed upon beforehand.
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It is the right thing to do, it is one of those walk before you get shoved types of situation. What she did was wrong, but it feels like the people who are the most to blame for this mess are the ones who are catching the least flak for it.
Whatever happened within that scene, Ginger's response rang horribly similar to justifications I've heard from men/women who've been accused of rape/know someone accused of rape. Obviously I'm not in any way calling her a rapist or responsible for what happened, just noticed some real similarities in the response. It's very "I'm so sorry she felt that way, I had a good time and never would have wanted someone to feel uncomfortable. But if they did feel uncomfortable it's a bit far for them to tell other people about it. Past in the past right?".
It's just the careful wording around it, not exactly denying something wrong has happened, but doing everything you can to turn it around on the victim and make the perpetrators appear innocent and unaware. I've had this same discussion with men who have crossed the line with me. I've heard people using it to people who've aired similar grievances. It's not ok. If JB felt that this happened to her and felt that these lines were boundaries she did not want crossed it is not OK for Ginger to attempt to diminish those grievances just because she was also a part of the shoot. Even the bit towards the end which made it sound like JB had just tagged on more grievances made it seem like she was questioning whether those things happened. There are photos of JB's bitemarks, why would she have taken those if she was not upset by them? For Ginger to make out she'd never heard of any further issues just rings a bit false in this scenario, though maybe it is the case. Even so, her wording definitely seemed like an attempt to remove credibility from JB's story, which is harsh especially seeing as most victims of sexual violence can't even fully comprehend what happened in their own minds until a bit after the incident. It's hard to get your head around such a big violation sometimes, especially when you were expecting a consensual environment. It's very sad to hear this kind of justification coming from another performer, in a situation where the perpetrators don't even need to defend themselves because they've got her doing it for them.
These are professionals, I call total bullshit on them not being aware of her contracts etc or recognising they were pushing the lines. If that is the case then they should not be legally allowed to shoot porn. What happened was sexual assault and essentially rape, because of it being part of a pre organised shoot people see lots of blurred lines, but at the end of the day, it sounds like she did not consent to that sort of sex and was given it, and when she attempted to voice concerns she was shot down. This needs to be taken seriously by the law rather than having a big "grey area" where once money has been exchanged it's fine to cross lines.
I don't want to put all the blame on Ginger though, she has dealt with the situation very poorly and I wish she could understand why her response was not acceptable. But what is truly to blame is that the porn industry is set up to allow anyone to be a producer/director, and any dude to be a male porn star.
Violent and hardcore fetishes are extremely common now and in my opinion all porn scenes of this nature need to be highly regulated and only conducted by licensed professionals with a medical professional on set. I'm talking everyone including the male pornstar having undertaken training, awareness and sexual health and safety to obtain a license, making sure there aren't previous allegations of assault of any kind. It'd be good to have something similar for women getting involved in porn, but less of a license and more of an awareness of their legal rights etc.
It should not be ok that just any pornstar/director in a studio setting should be able to shoot scenes violent in nature including anal sex, and there should be very clear punishments for any director or porn star violating a contract within a porn film. "Miscommunication" is not an excuse. If one cannot communicate these basic aspects they're not doing their job and someone else capable should be doing it.
Very sad that even today with so many workers rights outside of sex work and the porn industry being so big that people are still so happy to turn a blind eye to obvious abuse.
It's just the careful wording around it, not exactly denying something wrong has happened, but doing everything you can to turn it around on the victim and make the perpetrators appear innocent and unaware. I've had this same discussion with men who have crossed the line with me. I've heard people using it to people who've aired similar grievances. It's not ok. If JB felt that this happened to her and felt that these lines were boundaries she did not want crossed it is not OK for Ginger to attempt to diminish those grievances just because she was also a part of the shoot. Even the bit towards the end which made it sound like JB had just tagged on more grievances made it seem like she was questioning whether those things happened. There are photos of JB's bitemarks, why would she have taken those if she was not upset by them? For Ginger to make out she'd never heard of any further issues just rings a bit false in this scenario, though maybe it is the case. Even so, her wording definitely seemed like an attempt to remove credibility from JB's story, which is harsh especially seeing as most victims of sexual violence can't even fully comprehend what happened in their own minds until a bit after the incident. It's hard to get your head around such a big violation sometimes, especially when you were expecting a consensual environment. It's very sad to hear this kind of justification coming from another performer, in a situation where the perpetrators don't even need to defend themselves because they've got her doing it for them.
These are professionals, I call total bullshit on them not being aware of her contracts etc or recognising they were pushing the lines. If that is the case then they should not be legally allowed to shoot porn. What happened was sexual assault and essentially rape, because of it being part of a pre organised shoot people see lots of blurred lines, but at the end of the day, it sounds like she did not consent to that sort of sex and was given it, and when she attempted to voice concerns she was shot down. This needs to be taken seriously by the law rather than having a big "grey area" where once money has been exchanged it's fine to cross lines.
I don't want to put all the blame on Ginger though, she has dealt with the situation very poorly and I wish she could understand why her response was not acceptable. But what is truly to blame is that the porn industry is set up to allow anyone to be a producer/director, and any dude to be a male porn star.
Violent and hardcore fetishes are extremely common now and in my opinion all porn scenes of this nature need to be highly regulated and only conducted by licensed professionals with a medical professional on set. I'm talking everyone including the male pornstar having undertaken training, awareness and sexual health and safety to obtain a license, making sure there aren't previous allegations of assault of any kind. It'd be good to have something similar for women getting involved in porn, but less of a license and more of an awareness of their legal rights etc.
It should not be ok that just any pornstar/director in a studio setting should be able to shoot scenes violent in nature including anal sex, and there should be very clear punishments for any director or porn star violating a contract within a porn film. "Miscommunication" is not an excuse. If one cannot communicate these basic aspects they're not doing their job and someone else capable should be doing it.
Very sad that even today with so many workers rights outside of sex work and the porn industry being so big that people are still so happy to turn a blind eye to obvious abuse.
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Heres the thing. Even in the most hardcore extreme porn ever, it is standard and expected that everything in that film was agreed to and discussed before hand, including things a model will not do. It doesnt matter who the company is, or what other films they have shot. Agreed to boundaries are just that, and because of insanely sloppy communication and a handful of shitty people, this shoot did not adhere to industry standards.
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They fucked up this shoot so badly from all angles... according to Ginger's testimony Jenny said anything goes except for anal play, Ginger said the only boundary she stated beforehand was no inserting, pulling or poking her anus because she had painful scarring.
Then... also according to Ginger's video, the actor got Ginger to squirt and it was her first time squirting.. so even if Jenny had stated she didn't want squirting, it's kinda hard to predict or contain something like that from happening, from my understanding. They could have asked for a "cut" but again, according to Ginger's recollection she didn't. I also seem to understand from what she said in her video that there was no checklist done prior to shooting. What kind of production company does no checklists?
Unless the actor had mind reading skills it is difficult to NOT violate consent when she basically said "everything goes" beforehand. How does that work with consent? Can you consent to "anything goes" and then backpedal after the fact and it's still abuse? Maybe I am uneducated but this seems like a blank check to me.
Even if you say anything goes what is done must be withing reason. You don't choke some one out until the point they nearly pass out and do it several times, it is a sex scene not a cage match. Recently here in Sweden we had the supreme court rule that a hockey player that crosschecked an opponent in the neck was indeed guilty of assault despite it happening during a hockey game. So yes you can consent to anything but it doesn't give people a blank check to do anything they want. Say that Jenny had consented to being choked out and letting the guy have sex with her, the guy might still have been guilty of rape or sexual assault, because an unconscious person can't give consent, at least that is the way it works here. To really know whether what happened was OK or not this would have to go to court. From what I have read so far about this I would be inclined to believe Jenny.
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IM WAYYYYYYY out of touch with the updates to this story I guess. I wasn’t even up to date on this thread when I posted so I’ve obviously missed a lot. I prob should have kept reading before responding but the whole idea of “well look at what else they shoot” just doesn’t sit well with me. Things are usually discussed ahead of time.
But then again, that’s the main reason I started adult indie. Because producers and photographers in this industry are notoriously fucking skeezy and pushy, no matter how big a name they have. You think you’re getting in with some super pro only to have him make your shoot so unexpectedly uncomfortable it nearly leaves you dizzy.
Blargh. I’m kind of glad this all came out. No side picking involved, it gives a pretty stark smack of reality to those thinking about going main stream.
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Oh I was basically agreeing with you when you said that this shoot didn’t follow industry standards, not contradicting you
Things I've taken from this whole scary debacle:
1. Evil Angel (or many other mainstream porn studios that followed the happenings) are much less likely to recruit full-time cam girls.
2. On a mainstream porn set, shit can get ugly, even if you think you've made pre-scene agreements. Which SUCKS.
3. It might feel intimidating to say something MID-SCENE if you're feeling like your previously agreed upon boundaries are being violated, because HOLY SHIT it's a #bignamepornproducer and that's scary.
4. If your friend tells you they feel icky about something, first priority is to listen to them, then support them unless it's incredibly ridiculous (I don't think it was in this case), and be there for them when they talk about it publicly. If you're trying to protect your place in the industry, do #4 in the most diplomatic way possible, but don't dismiss your friend's experience.
I think #4 is the only place Ginger really went wrong. She likely didn't know the best way to proceed to both support her friend AND protect her place in the industry.
I am not taking sides in any of this, but the only thing I CAN say is I wish Ginger could have had more preplanned determination as to what happened @ #4. And I think that's why she was forced(?) to resign from APAC. Because to be involved in that, you ALWAYS have to put the performer's feelings first and protect them.
1. Evil Angel (or many other mainstream porn studios that followed the happenings) are much less likely to recruit full-time cam girls.
2. On a mainstream porn set, shit can get ugly, even if you think you've made pre-scene agreements. Which SUCKS.
3. It might feel intimidating to say something MID-SCENE if you're feeling like your previously agreed upon boundaries are being violated, because HOLY SHIT it's a #bignamepornproducer and that's scary.
4. If your friend tells you they feel icky about something, first priority is to listen to them, then support them unless it's incredibly ridiculous (I don't think it was in this case), and be there for them when they talk about it publicly. If you're trying to protect your place in the industry, do #4 in the most diplomatic way possible, but don't dismiss your friend's experience.
I think #4 is the only place Ginger really went wrong. She likely didn't know the best way to proceed to both support her friend AND protect her place in the industry.
I am not taking sides in any of this, but the only thing I CAN say is I wish Ginger could have had more preplanned determination as to what happened @ #4. And I think that's why she was forced(?) to resign from APAC. Because to be involved in that, you ALWAYS have to put the performer's feelings first and protect them.
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From the lengthy and emotional video response that Ginger posted, that was also posted to this thread, it sounded like Ginger had the perspective that JB's "secret boyfriend" was the one upset and asking for photos.. I have seen in my personal experience men getting upset over what their camgirl partners go off and do, and then pry for details. It seems reasonable that Ginger thought that that was the scenario. Ginger seems sweet and aloof. She seemed to be kept in the dark about how upset JB was, and by how many different things exactly, and then she was attacked as if she was fully aware. I was completely on JB's side and felt that Ginger was slimy and creepy, until I saw her 33 minute+ video response. Her story of all this is COMPLETELY different from everything that the mob had been jumping on and spreading. (Including that other random youtube video that was posted here, who even is that girl?)
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