Do you believe that rape culture is real?

[Gen]

Cam sites end up sexual because there are no rules stopping it.

Ehhhh I disagree. Site owners advertise in specific places (porn sites, conventions, etc), new sites hire performers to do sex things to draw traffic. I don't think Streamate added the categories "anal sex" and "shaved pussy" because they had no rules, I think it's because it's a sex site.

It seems like willful ignorance and a weird distraction to act like camsites aren't specifically made to sell sex. There's nothing wrong with that?

 

[SMuser69]

Ehhhh I disagree. Site owners advertise in specific places (porn sites, conventions, etc), new sites hire performers to do sex things to draw traffic. I don't think Streamate added the categories "anal sex" and "shaved pussy" because they had no rules, I think it's because it's a sex site.

It seems like willful ignorance and a weird distraction to act like camsites aren't specifically made to sell sex. There's nothing wrong with that?

They filter for what there's a demand for there are also categories that are in the keywords but have no filter at all (roleplay, submissive, dominant for example). However there's no rules that enforce sex at all. The sites make a rule that if you make a deal you keep your part of the agreement. If you tell a customer you will do something in pvt you're usually on the hook for it (at least on SM). The sites advertise because that's the primary audience it would be silly to not advertise to the largest customer base.

If someone finds something non-sexual entertaining and is willing to pay for it why would you care?

 

[Gen]

They filter for what there's a demand for there are also categories that are in the keywords but have no filter at all (roleplay, submissive, dominant for example). However there's no rules that enforce sex at all. The sites make a rule that if you make a deal you keep your part of the agreement. If you tell a customer you will do something in pvt you're usually on the hook for it (at least on SM). The sites advertise because that's the primary audience it would be silly to not advertise to the largest customer base.

If someone finds something non-sexual entertaining and is willing to pay for it why would you care?

If that's the primary audience, it's a sex site. That doesn't mean everything is dildos and bondage all day. That doesn't mean that nobody gets non-sexual pleasure from camsites. People also pay escorts to talk or to hang out but that doesn't mean their primary service isn't sex. Non-nudes don't negate the fact that the site is selling sexuality (and tbh non-nudes bank off the fact that the majority of models are more explicit).

 

[LioraVox]

Camming does not have to be sexual at all. The cam person usually chooses themselves to be sexual because it interests a larger audience and more potential for income. Cam sites end up sexual because there are no rules stopping it.

Twitch has rules in place to limit sexually which forces monetary streamers to find non sexual ways to interest their audiences for income.

Okay... so you're looking at this from an angle that camming = all cammers ( sex sites + video game streamers+ weird non-fetish webcam folk)?
If that's the case, then I agree that camming doesn't have to be sexual at its core. Because sites like Twitch/Youtube Streaming aren't meant to be sexual. But if we're looking at this and just focusing on the sex sites.. it is supposed to be sexual at the core in some way. Whether that's selling implied sexual intercourse or selling companionship (for non-nude girls).. these sites are selling the intimate connection between people.. how it's done is up to the performer - of course.. but the premise of the site is "sexual/intimate connectivity in real time" If that wasn't the goal of these sites (mfc, cb, sm etc) then they wouldn't advertise it as such & they wouldn't allow the performers to put on those types of shows.

 

[CharlieCharma]

Yeah I get the nice guys finish last thing, but damn life is confusing.

The majority of people don't want to date a dick or some shit. They want a nice guy. The thing is a lot of self-proclaimed nice guys aren't actually nice. They're that sickly sweet like they can exchange nice tokens for sex kinda nice. Also, those self-proclaimed "nice guys" think that every guy who is good looking and confident must be a dick cause projecting.

When people are with dicks, it usually isn't because they deep down want an alpha bad boy, it's cause manipulators are good at what they do.

Just wanted to straighten that shit. "Nice" guys are the worst kind of dudes.

 

[SaffronBurke]

The majority of people don't want to date a dick or some shit. They want a nice guy. The thing is a lot of self-proclaimed nice guys aren't actually nice. They're that sickly sweet like they can exchange nice tokens for sex kinda nice. Also, those self-proclaimed "nice guys" think that every guy who is good looking and confident must be a dick cause projecting.

When people are with dicks, it usually isn't because they deep down want an alpha bad boy, it's cause manipulators are good at what they do.

Just wanted to straighten that shit. "Nice" guys are the worst kind of dudes.

These "nice guys" are often the same dudes who complain about being "friend zoned" because women won't sleep with/date them in exchange for being friendly, even though that's not how it works. If you approach someone as a friend and are friendly with them and never mention being interested in being more than friends, of course you're going to be just friends! Women aren't out here jumping on all our guy friend's dicks just because they're being friendly to us. If one or the other expresses interest in more and it's mutual, sure, it'll develop, but these dudes "friend zone" themselves by not being clear in their intentions.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

The parents may not have known. My mother didn't know that her friend who was staying with us when I was 13 was molesting me nearly the entire time. I didn't say anything for two years, because I didn't realize that that was what it was until then.

Debated whether or not to ask about this, probly too nosy. But curiousity is killing me.

What was your early education about awareness/prevention like? I know when I was being brought up, it was non-existent in my community.

When it came time to raise my kids, I started having talks with them right around the time they could conversate (age 4-ish). Looking back, I think I kind of muddled my way through it more than anything.

 

[Mila_]

These "nice guys" are often the same dudes who complain about being "friend zoned" because women won't sleep with/date them in exchange for being friendly, even though that's not how it works. If you approach someone as a friend and are friendly with them and never mention being interested in being more than friends, of course you're going to be just friends! Women aren't out here jumping on all our guy friend's dicks just because they're being friendly to us. If one or the other expresses interest in more and it's mutual, sure, it'll develop, but these dudes "friend zone" themselves by not being clear in their intentions.

This is partially true. There are men who simply never communicate their interest to women. But there are also a lot of women who exploit men they know are interested in them romantically by making them their "intellectual whores": they go on dates with them to the movies, for coffee, to the park, tell them all about their man troubles, and they know perfectly well the guy wants more than a friendship even if he hasn't said so, but they keep the relationship platonic, avoid talking directly to him about his intentions, because while they enjoy the free attention they aren't interested in dating a guy like that who is not assertive, dominant, doesn't make a move and therefore are not sexy to them. Here is a nice visual example:



This BRUTAL shiv to the heart of the nice guy that did all the things he thought she would like and still got "let's just be friends". Only this particular woman is the equivalent to the ZFG pump and dump Chad... she posted her LJBF message to him publicly on facebook exposing his tender heart to the sizzling hot sun of their mutual circle of friends.

#Stillsinglethough

Lovely. I am pretty sure she tells herself and everyone willing to listen that all she wants is a nice guy who makes her laugh.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Here is a nice visual example:

View attachment 69597

This BRUTAL shiv to the heart of the nice guy that did all the things he thought she would like and still got "let's just be friends". Only this particular woman is the equivalent to the ZFG pump and dump Chad... she posted her LJBF message to him publicly on facebook exposing his tender heart to the sizzling hot sun of their mutual circle of friends.

poor guy

#cantstoplaughing
#schadenfreudeoverload

 

[SaffronBurke]

Debated whether or not to ask about this, probly too nosy. But curiousity is killing me.

What was your early education about awareness/prevention like? I know when I was being brought up, it was non-existent in my community.

When it came time to raise my kids, I started having talks with them right around the time they could conversate (age 4-ish). Looking back, I think I kind of muddled my way through it more than anything.

It's fine, I really don't mind talking about it. I actually prefer to share my stories so people might understand more, and talking through my trauma is beneficial to me.

This actually turned into word vomit about all of my sexual assaults, so fair warning to anyone reading.

I was also molested when I was three, and there were classes and therapy and shit I went to after to learn about "bad touch" and all that shit. So I had a fair amount of education as far as that's concerned.

But this dude when I was older, brainwashed me. It probably didn't help that I was the weird kid with no friends, plus I'm autistic so things don't always connect right away. But he pulled this whole "you're my true love" angle and was super manipulative and shit. When I broke down and told my mom two years later when I finally figured out what had actually happened, she took me to the police station that weekend to file a report, so kudos to her for not being one of those "no, my friend would never do that" moms. The cops basically refused to press charges even though I really fucking wanted to, because "it had been too long", but they did at least put him on the sex offender registry.

Seriously, though, fuck those cops. I wanted to take his ass to court. But that set a precedent for me that the cops aren't going to help me in such cases. When a friend assaulted me a couple years ago, I didn't tell anyone, I just stopped attending Renaissance Faire altogether so I would never have to see him again. When I was raped this summer, I didn't bother reporting it, I just went to Planned Parenthood and got tested. They were very nice and understanding. It also took me two days to put the "rape" label on what had happened, even though I knew that I didn't want to have sex with him, said no multiple times, and even kept scooting away as he tried to penetrate me, it wasn't until I caught myself acting the way I had when I was being molested that I put two and two together and realized that it was rape. Honestly, I wonder how many women who "change their minds about sex afterwards and call it rape" are in that same situation.

 

[heybarkeep]

there are also a lot of women who exploit men they know are interested in them romantically by making them their "intellectual whores"

I don't know about this. Not saying the women that do this aren't partially to blame but I think most times the dudes allow themselves to be exploited. I feel like the guy should accept responsibility in these situations. People will use you if you continually allow it.


I can't get over how tight dudes pants are, like holy shit haha.

 

[MFCGod]

I just saw this video on reddit... "prank"

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I was also molested when I was three, and there were classes and therapy and shit I went to after to learn about "bad touch" and all that shit. So I had a fair amount of education as far as that's concerned.

But this dude when I was older, brainwashed me. and was super manipulative and shit.

That's one thing I feel very strongly about with this whole issue (from the educational point of view).

Talking with my kids about this was almost 100% focused on the touching, and "if a stranger offers you candy" type scenarios. Really went no further, just dwelled on that part.
The brainwashing/manipulation would feature much more prominently if I had it to do over again.

 

[LioraVox]

I don't know about this. Not saying the women that do this aren't partially to blame but I think most times the dudes allow themselves to be exploited. I feel like the guy should accept responsibility in these situations. People will use you if you continually allow it.


I can't get over how tight dudes pants are, like holy shit haha.

I agree. If a guy has gotten to a point of planning extravagant dates for a girl trying to get her to be more than friends, and she is exploiting him by accepting the dates but still shutting him down...there comes a time when He has to realize he needs to either stop pinning after her or to make his desires clear. Women who exploit the friendzone, are shitty but these dudes equally participate under the guise of being a "nice" guy.

Every body just needs to learn how to ask for what they want.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I've been on the "exploiter" end by accident (not with money or gifts, just time) and honestly, I thought I just had a really amazing best friend and was heartbroken when he went crazy. I had no idea he had feelings for me but I loved him dearly as a friend and it fucking sucked to learn it was all a sham.

 

[JickyJuly]

I've read a few pages. So, it's possible that I've jumbled something, but I am confused as to why we're equating men who assault women with powerful, assertive men. Most rapists are feeble, desperate creatures who see an opening (sorry, hehe) and exploit it. Men who rape generally aren't the Hans Solos of the world. They aren't even the Luke Skywalkers. They are the Jabba the Hutts. A quick look through your local predator database will show that.

 

[Ambers Troll]

Something critical to rape psychology is the powerlessness of the perpetrator to some other person. Most male rapists are heavily controlled by a 'strong' female influence, they hate a woman they can't escape from. Attacking a 'weaker'/ more appropriate female is their way to escape that dominating one.
Inappropriate friend zoning could definitely be a trigger for some men: anything that increases dislike of women as a group.

I did want to say that camming is not something that encourages a rape culture, every interaction requires consent. You can push it by paying a bit more, but it is never breached. Just ask any member here if they like women more or less as a result of camming, you will find their respect for women generally increases due to the interactive nature.

 

[Ambers Troll]

Men who rape generally aren't the Hans Solos of the world. They aren't even the Luke Skywalkers. They are the Jabba the Hutts. A quick look through your local predator database will show that.

Never think that, predators can be anyone...anyone.

 

[JickyJuly]

Never think that, predators can be anyone...anyone.

If anyone can be Mr. Hans Solo, surely anyone can be Jabba the Hutt.

 

[Ambers Troll]

If anyone can be Mr. Hans Solo, surely anyone can be Jabba the Hutt.

In predator terms both are selfish and arrogant, much like a real predator. Selfish is the critical trait.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Most rapists are feeble, desperate creatures who see an opening (sorry, hehe) and exploit it...A quick look through your local predator database will show that ???.

Never think that, predators can be anyone...anyone.

Yeah, what he said.

I have known 2 people who wound up in the database. The dregs of society to be sure, but not the sort of predators that I would worry about. One of them had a story (his version) that was one of those wtf? tales.

I have known 3 that got away with their shit. 2 were the "rise to the top" types, the 3rd a mean assed drunk. None of them looked particularly weak or feeble.

 

[JickyJuly]

Guys. Guys. Stand down. It was a cheeky statement (though in my assessment no cheekier than comparing assertive men to Hans Solo). Stay with me here. I know anyone can be a predator. I live in America's wang.

 

[LioraVox]

I've read a few pages. So, it's possible that I've jumbled something, but I am confused as to why we're equating men who assault women with powerful, assertive men. Most rapists are feeble, desperate creatures who see an opening (sorry, hehe) and exploit it. Men who rape generally aren't the Hans Solos of the world. They aren't even the Luke Skywalkers. They are the Jabba the Hutts. A quick look through your local predator database will show that.

Tbh, the equation makes sense.. because these men who do rape are doing so to be powerful and assertive. That is what they see, that is what they "idolize" so that's what they want to become. If there was more representation for men (people - honestly) to be less persistent and assertive to get the girl (other people) than I think things would be different.

Imagine if instead of these "no =yes eventually" tropes the dudes in the films actually accepted the "no". :

Movie dude: *pulls lady closer to him gazing into her eyes*
Movie lady: "uhhhh what are you doing? get off me."
dude: *eyebrow wiggles*
lady: *tries to pull away*
dude: "why are you trembling?"
lady: "let me go"
dude: *pulls lady closer*
lady: "no really, let me go."
dude: *actually lets go because she aint into it*
lady: *fixes herself*
dude: *possibly crushed..but can understand and respect the rejection*
both: continue on with fighting the bad guy like that awkward exchange didn't happen-remain the best of crime fighting friends.

BAM whole new standard! I should write a movie!

 

[JickyJuly]

Blowing up the thread, but I've been thinking about this girls don't really want nice guys/nice guys don't get girls thing. It's an easy thought to buy into, but the real problem is that "nice" is so vague that it's nearly meaningless. So, when a guy says he's "the nice guy" he wants your approval and whatever perks come with it. When a girl says she wants "the nice guy", she wants you to think she makes appropriate choices. If she was really looking for the type of guy she wanted you to hear about, she'd have more details.If a girl is looking for a genuinely decent man (and wanted to discuss it) she might say: "I want a man who is good with children, loves dogs, cooks and is responsible with money.". That is a man who will get women no "nice guy finishing last" about it. Now, will a man automatically have supermodels jumping on his junk because he saves money, coaches pee wee soccer and fosters pug puppies? No. But if he wants to find love, he will.

@LioraVox I totally agree that the whole chasing the girl after the no thing breeds issues, but I still think Jabba is a better representation of rapists. He's gluttonous, lacking compassion, abusing the little bit of power he has and in need of validation. Hence, my Jabba joke that seems to have fallen flat.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

c

I've read a few pages. So, it's possible that I've jumbled something, but I am confused as to why we're equating men who assault women with powerful, assertive men. Most rapists are feeble, desperate creatures who see an opening (sorry, hehe) and exploit it. Men who rape generally aren't the Hans Solos of the world. They aren't even the Luke Skywalkers. They are the Jabba the Hutts. A quick look through your local predator database will show that.

I think this part of the problem with term Rape Culture. At one end of the spectrum we have ISIL and Muslim society that sanction honor killing, and grown men have 12-year-old boy toys. I think everybody agrees that a rape culture. On the other end of the spectrum, we have statements, that men starting at attractive woman, or men giving compliments to woman they don't know, or delivery guys hitting on girls are part of rape culture.
To me rape culture is excusing the kinda of stuff that Trump did with "grab them by the pussy", is just locker room behavior or boys will boys. I don't believe that behavior is tolerated in America any more (although admittedly Trump election is a counter example.) So IMO America is not a rape culture, but pockets of it exist within America.

 

[MFCGod]

Blowing up the thread, but I've been thinking about this girls don't really want nice guys/nice guys don't get girls thing. It's an easy thought to buy into, but the real problem is that "nice" is so vague that it's nearly meaningless. So, when a guy says he's "the nice guy" he wants your approval and whatever perks come with it. When a girl says she wants "the nice guy", she wants you to think she makes appropriate choices. If she was really looking for the type of guy she wanted you to hear about, she'd have more details.If a girl is looking for a genuinely decent man (and wanted to discuss it) she might say: "I want a man who is good with children, loves dogs, cooks and is responsible with money.". That is a man who will get women no "nice guy finishing last" about it. Now, will a man automatically have supermodels jumping on his junk because he saves money, coaches pee wee soccer and fosters pug puppies? No. But if he wants to find love, he will..

When I think of "nice guy" I think a bit socially awkward, has nothing else to give in a conversation over than compliments

I think that's where the problem comes in, you can't build your life with someone who worships you all the time instead of engaging in real meaningful and interesting conversations

I don't think I've ever said nice when describing what I like in people, I would say empathetic, which is genuinely understanding rather than just cosmetic

Nice is pretty cosmetic and meaningless

(almost) Anyone can fake being nice

 

[Guy]

c


I think this part of the problem with term Rape Culture. At one end of the spectrum we have ISIL and Muslim society that sanction honor killing, and grown men have 12-year-old boy toys. I think everybody agrees that a rape culture. On the other end of the spectrum, we have statements, that men starting at attractive woman, or men giving compliments to woman they don't know, or delivery guys hitting on girls are part of rape culture.
To me rape culture is excusing the kinda of stuff that Trump did with "grab them by the pussy", is just locker room behavior or boys will boys. I don't believe that behavior is tolerated in America any more (although admittedly Trump election is a counter example.) So IMO America is not a rape culture, but pockets of it exist within America.

Honor killings are not an Islamic practice. https://cruxnow.com/uncategorized/2016/06/17/christians-pakistan-not-immune-honor-killings/
https://blog.oup.com/2014/07/five-important-facts-about-honor-killings/

 

[Val Vega]

I don't believe that behavior is tolerated in America any more (although admittedly Trump election is a counter example.) So IMO America is not a rape culture, but pockets of it exist within America.

The guy literally admitted to sexual assault and was elected in spite of that with broad support from across all of America. I think that's a pretty strong indicator that rape culture is very much a thing in the USA. That's not a small thing at all that you can become President of the United States while being on record saying you've sexually assaulted women and being utterly flippant about it.

 

[Gen]

The guy literally admitted to sexual assault and was elected in spite of that with broad support from across all of America. I think that's a pretty strong indicator that rape culture is very much a thing in the USA. That's not a small thing at all that you can become President of the United States while being on record saying you've sexually assaulted women and being utterly flippant about it.

Casey Affleck, Ben Roethlisberger, Woody Allen, Kobe Bryant, on and on and on.

Maybe rich celebrities are exceptions in that we are willing to overlook accusations because they're so talented and special () but it definitely doesn't send the message that this is unacceptable. Not to mention people will rally around celebrities like they're on the payroll.

Honestly I know I'm repeating myself but I think the public need for objectivity, which we expect we can get from courts, drives a lot of this (in addition to a need to protect our heroes). But what I think starts delving into "rape culture" territory is how hard people go in defending them. If we don't need a witch hunt against accused abusers, we also don't need a public defence league. The aggressive need for everyone to get involved is weird and (imo) contributes to victims saying "fuck that" when it's suggested they report....then, of course, not reporting means you're lying. Insufficient evidence? Lying. Like what's the fucking point of saying anything.

Again, our hands are collectively tied because we need proof and there usually isn't any. But I do think, for men in the public eye, there is little to lose for being accused and the defence of them is disenheartening to me.

 

[Ythee_Fox]

This idea that "women like being harassed by hot guys, and only get offended when the guy is unattractive or socially awkward" is another strawman. I'm disgusted by any unwanted sexual advances, no matter what the person looks like...

Everytime i read someone saying this i just feel sad about how they contribute with this kind of behavior.

And it remembers me this guy i had a crush on. I used to sell desserts to the tourists at the only bar/restaurant street we had on that city, and he used to work in one of those restaurants. He had an amazing smile and looked a very self-steemed guy and optimistic about life. Once he called me, wanting to buy one of my sweets, and asked me if i didnt wanted a kiss instead of money to pay for them (and touching my shoulder with a very "friendly" face). I sayd "lol no". He payd me and never talk to me again. And i never felt attracted to him again bc i felt kinda mad by him thinking he was some kind of prize or something, and touching me that way without even knowing me.

This can sound exagerated for some ppl, but i felt genuinely disapointing by him being this kind of person, and im not the kind of person who feel comfy with any unknown person touching me and even more with second thoughts (i usually feel really attracted after feeling that the person is my friend and stuff) and i bet a lot of girls would refuse as well.