How to stalk people on the internet

[LydiaFrost]

interesting topic and important.

i often see that models have their old phones and sometimes laptops as ruffle prices which i find really unsafe.
there can be a ton of data on those devices, right? even if you delete stuff, there is always a way to get stuff back.

maybe i'm paranoid here,but i would never ever risk that.

 

[weirdbr]

interesting topic and important.

i often see that models have their old phones and sometimes laptops as ruffle prices which i find really unsafe.
there can be a ton of data on those devices, right? even if you delete stuff, there is always a way to get stuff back.

maybe i'm paranoid here,but i would never ever risk that.

To reduce the risk considerably:
- encrypt your phone/laptop/ipad/tablet (android, Iphone/ipad , OS X and windows 8 support this)
- when you are going to raffle it off - do a factory reset first. That will destroy the encryption key, removing any chances of the winner getting to old data that you didn't want them to get (they can scan the disk and try to read old data, but all they will get is encrypted data that will take them hundreds of years trying to decrypt). Then once that is done, put in whatever data you want the winner to actually have (photos/videos)

Personally I recommend encrypting phones/laptops always anyway - less risk of problems if those devices are stolen.

 

[HotGrlTPartyy]

:twocents-02cents: I know a girl who has been harassed by the same guy for three years now. It is not as lighthearted as it seems. People can always find ways to contact you, and if they are persistent enough they will know how to get under your skin and tear you apart emotionally. Typically psychos are not dumb guys who will just show up at your door and leave when you tell them to. They will find a way to stay in your life, possibly (in my friend's case) for years. It can be emotionally exhausting. She is finally working to get a civil harassment restraining order, but if that fails, it could make things even worse. Stalking is not something to be taken lightly.

 

[Azhrarn]

:twocents-02cents: I know a girl who has been harassed by the same guy for three years now. It is not as lighthearted as it seems. People can always find ways to contact you, and if they are persistent enough they will know how to get under your skin and tear you apart emotionally. Typically psychos are not dumb guys who will just show up at your door and leave when you tell them to. They will find a way to stay in your life, possibly (in my friend's case) for years. It can be emotionally exhausting. She is finally working to get a civil harassment restraining order, but if that fails, it could make things even worse. Stalking is not something to be taken lightly.

Stalking is not to be taken lightly, but the subject of this thread is "stalking over the internet", and quite frankly I have to say I think the amount of fear this subject generates is all out of proportion to the actual danger; and I suppose we have the popular mass media to thank for that. If a young girl is molested, it's usually by a member of her own family or household. If a young girl is raped, it's usually by someone she knows (date rape, anyone?). And if a woman is murdered, the first people the police go looking for are the husband, ex-husband, lover, boyfriend, ex-boyfriend... you get the point. So the idea that some stranger is going to have the time, skill and resources (and let's not forget motive) to track you down from across the country and show up on your doorstep is just a little overblown I think. It's the internet! Any 12 year old boy or 150 lb weakling can pretend to be a tough guy over the internet, which is why the internet has always brought out the worst trolls.

Another thing that people seem to forget is that, the people that you meet online, are the same people that you meet in your daily life. It's commonly said of strip clubs that sooner or later every man in the world will walk into one, and I think the same is true of sexually oriented chat rooms. One cam girl I often talk to tells the story of the freakiest guy she ever met - he was into one-night stands, bondage, group sex, swinging, you name it. Guess where she met him. Online? No. She met him in church, studying to become a minister! So if you're going to be taking all these extraordinary precautions to guard yourself against online threats, what sorts of precautions are you taking to guard yourself against real-life threats?

I'm not saying this thread shouldn't exist. But I do hope it's balanced by a parallel thread somewhere on this forum giving women advice on how to protect themselves when they're offline and going about their daily lives, because, quite frankly, that's where the real threats are.

 

[BritneySiren]

I rarely meet anyone new offline now a days... I get what ya mean. Anyone has the potential to be crazy

 

[NoGoodDeed...]

I recently contacted a model, whose profile information made it very easy to find her real name - two google searches in five minutes. I actually found this forum researching the best approach to let her know. As expected, it did not go well.

My first email was met with confusion and hostility (I was too vague). The next was as detailed and open as possible describing how the information was easily found, how to correct it, plus links to abandoned social sites that could be used to connect the dots. She thanked me then, and again for additional links. She immediately disabled many of her real-name social sites, probably ones she needs or uses. Possibly to hide them from me, which was curious because I had just told her about them. We briefly discussed the nature of the business. I probably got too philosophical or personal, as I tend to do and never received a reply. The entire exchange was about 10 total messages over an afternoon.

Here's the problem:
She never removed the profile information that makes her traceable!
It's still there, and anyone who searches will find it instantly. She told me how the fear of being outed is a huge stress (I understand completely). She is also very careful about removing information from photos etc. so I'm utterly confused why this wasn't fixed. I'm not going to contact her directly since my last message was ignored. If I crossed a line, a direct "I will manage my own privacy. Please don't contact me again" would have made that very clear.

Here's my impression and assumptions from a single experience:
This situation is too complex, too charged and involves too much risk to ever have a happy ending. Despite good intentions, YOU become her biggest fear. Not those with ill intent who never reveal information they've discovered. Not all her friends and family who might find out. Not the 1000s of people who might recognize her online. You. A model has to assume the worst. So for a person that knows her "secret", when she knows absolutely nothing in return, that "worst" is going to be pretty scary.

Every explanation of how you discovered the info is proof of your creeper nature.
Every mention of personal information will be seen as invasion.
Every suggestion will be seen as manipulation.
Every mention of risk will be perceived as a veiled threat.

So the rule is don't ever contact a model regarding personal information. Ever. Just don't. Ever, ever, ever. For those of you with exceptional social skills who might actually be able to broach such a delicate subject with the sensitivity and eloquence required, also don't. When a model is panicked by the thought of being outed, that vulnerability will trump any logic. All that will be accomplished is you managed to upset a person you were trying to help. And if when she is eventually outed, you became suspect #1 by trying to prevent it.

Rationalize all you want about putting the model's safety first and "taking one for the team" just understand you won't be providing peace of mind, just a reality check. And that's only if they trust you enough to consider your advice, which is unlikely.

And Ladies, my only suggestion if you receive such a notice is: don't reply without taking the time to process the information.

Those of you who ignore this advice and still try, post the outcome so some can hopefully benefit from the information,

 

[Azhrarn]

Here's my impression and assumptions from a single experience:
This situation is too complex, too charged and involves too much risk to ever have a happy ending. Despite good intentions, YOU become her biggest fear. Not those with ill intent who never reveal information they've discovered. Not all her friends and family who might find out. Not the 1000s of people who might recognize her online. You. A model has to assume the worst. So for a person that knows her "secret", when she knows absolutely nothing in return, that "worst" is going to be pretty scary.

So the rule is don't ever contact a model regarding personal information. Ever. Just don't. Ever, ever, ever. For those of you with exceptional social skills who might actually be able to broach such a delicate subject with the sensitivity and eloquence required, also don't. When a model is panicked by the thought of being outed, that vulnerability will trump any logic. All that will be accomplished is you managed to upset a person you were trying to help. And if when she is eventually outed, you became suspect #1 by trying to prevent it.

What you're describing is actually called "social engineering," because it relies upon personal information that's gained directly/indirectly from a person instead of through technological means. And I'm actually going to agree with your advice, because I encountered a similar situation myself. I told a cam girl I had known for a short while, "Hey, did you realize...?" And she immediately freaked the fuck out. It actually caused the first disruption in our friendship. Did she ever stop for one second to think, "Hey, any one of my regulars who've been in my room all these months could have figured this out, and probably did figure it out, and never told me?" No, of course not. Instead I became the bad guy for telling her something that was staring her right in the face.

In my post above, I didn't actually use the word paranoia, but that's pretty much what I was talking about. Now of course I have no idea what it's like to be a young woman performing sexually explicit shows online, and I have no idea what sort of crazies cam girls have to deal with, but my observation is that in more than a few cases getting into this type of work results in unbelievable levels of paranoia that are crippling to both online and real-world friendships. And since (because of my background) I actually have some idea of how difficult it actually is to try to trace someone online, it just makes the entire situation even more pitiful. So yeah, I agree. If you ever discover something about a cam girl online, I would say "don't tell her," because the risk to the cam girl will probably be negligible, whereas the damage it will do to your friendship is considerable.

 

[AmberCutie]

I told a cam girl I had known for a short while, "Hey, did you realize...?" And she immediately freaked the fuck out. It actually caused the first disruption in our friendship. Did she ever stop for one second to think, "Hey, any one of my regulars who've been in my room all these months could have figured this out, and probably did figure it out, and never told me?" No, of course not. Instead I became the bad guy for telling her something that was staring her right in the face.

It may not necessarily be that you became the bad guy, it may more likely be because now she is having an internal conflict with how to treat you now that she knows you have private sensitive information.

I never ask my regulars if they've found/seen anything of mine because I would absolutely hate to feel that awkward "oh shit, now he's got this on me" feeling. I guess I'd just rather not know, or have the tip come from an anonymous source.

 

[Azhrarn]

I never ask my regulars if they've found/seen anything of mine because I would absolutely hate to feel that awkward "oh shit, now he's got this on me" feeling. I guess I'd just rather not know, or have the tip come from an anonymous source.

I was thinking along those lines, yes, that if you could somehow find a way to tell the girl anonymously that would be the best way to handle things. Perhaps in the future, if someone learned something sensitive about a cam girl, they could message you, and then you could relay that info to the girl herself through MFC mail?

 

[AmberCutie]

I never ask my regulars if they've found/seen anything of mine because I would absolutely hate to feel that awkward "oh shit, now he's got this on me" feeling. I guess I'd just rather not know, or have the tip come from an anonymous source.

I was thinking along those lines, yes, that if you could somehow find a way to tell the girl anonymously that would be the best way to handle things. Perhaps in the future, if someone learned something sensitive about a cam girl, they could message you, and then you could relay that info to the girl herself through MFC mail?

No. Why would I get involved?

Anonymous tip notes could do the trick. Or you could create an anonymous account here and send her a message.

 

[Azhrarn]

Anonymous tip notes could do the trick. Or you could create an anonymous account here and send her a message.

For a moment I thought an anonymous tip note might be the best way, but then I had second thoughts. Because if the information comes from an anonymous source, it could just lead to even more paranoia. For example, "If this person knows, who else knows, or who else has he told?" or "If they found this out, what else did they find out and aren't telling me?" At least if the information comes from a specific source, they can respond to questions or try to allay fears, but in a tip note you're limited to 140 characters, and there's no way for the girl to follow-up. So I'm still leaning towards the opinion that the best policy is to say nothing at all, unless you're either a masochist or a saint and don't care that you'll probably sacrifice your friendship with a cam girl by telling her.

 

[Sevrin]

"If this person knows, who else knows, or who else has he told?" or "If they found this out, what else did they find out and aren't telling me?"

If the model is careless about her info, that's exactly how she should start thinking. From there, she will either find a balance, or decide to get out of the game. Either of those results is better than getting tracked down, which is what you seem to be concerned about.

 

[Azhrarn]

"If this person knows, who else knows, or who else has he told?" or "If they found this out, what else did they find out and aren't telling me?"

If the model is careless about her info, that's exactly how she should start thinking. From there, she will either find a balance, or decide to get out of the game. Either of those results is better than getting tracked down, which is what you seem to be concerned about.

Strike two. Funny how you consistently misunderstand what I'm saying, and consistently fail to get clarification before making assumptions. Oh, but I guess the two go together, don't they?

 

[Roseloveli]

Humm, and most of the members I run into on MFC or who contact me for private shows work in IT.....coincidence ? Probably so...but really makes you think!

 

[Azhrarn]

Humm, and most of the members I run into on MFC or who contact me for private shows work in IT.....coincidence ? Probably so...but really makes you think!

If you get a job working at a strip club that sits across from a bar, are you going to be surprised if the bar patrons find their way to your strip club? You're in their neighborhood. Same way if you get a job working on a high profile adult website, don't be surprised if you attract the attention of people in IT because you're in their neighborhood. It's computer hackers who built and maintain the Internet after all.

 

[weirdbr]

Humm, and most of the members I run into on MFC or who contact me for private shows work in IT.....coincidence ? Probably so...but really makes you think!

That's because we spend a lot of time online, specially in the corners of the internet that most people don't know about - if you look into new areas of the internet, you will usually see IT/tech folks as the first to be involved (think bitcoin, 4chan, reddit, etc, etc), so we're more likely to find places like MFC than your average computer user.

Plus, depending on the employer/career path, it is a high paying job that tends to encourage the 'work hard, play harder' philosophy, with usually the amount of partying being proportional to the stress levels (which can be exemplified by the presence of bars in *the office* of quite a few of our sysadmin teams that HR knows about but doesn't dare to touch, except when they join us for a drink )

 

[CaramelLips]

Humm, and most of the members I run into on MFC or who contact me for private shows work in IT.....coincidence ? Probably so...but really makes you think!

what about that makes you think?
I think maybe that they only spend too much time with computer, thats why they go to this sites. No?

 

[maskpull]

If a model block customer from my place, will I see her room but can not access into it or I can't see her room, also her profile.

 

[JimsX]

If a model block customer from my place, will I see her room but can not access into it or I can't see her room, also her profile.

If she blocks your state and country you will be able to see her room or profile.

 

[JimsX]

If a model block customer from my place, will I see her room but can not access into it or I can't see her room, also her profile.

If she blocks your state and country you will be able to see her room or profile.

Oops, I typed that wrong. You will NOT see her room or profile.

 

[BritneySiren]

I have never freaks out at people for warning me about personal information before but I guess it's different dor me since I don't plan on getting a mundane job anytime soon/most of my friends and family are fully aware of what I do for a living

 

[CaramelLips]

i always block, hope it works :dance:

 

[PRISM]

You really only need to do a few basic things, someone can easily drive themselves into a mental breakdown worrying about potential stalkers and covering up everything in their life.

 

[Azhrarn]

You really only need to do a few basic things, someone can easily drive themselves into a mental breakdown worrying about potential stalkers and covering up everything in their life.

It's called loss of perspective, or black and white thinking. From what I've observed on this forum, most cam girls seem to be completely fixated on the one guy who might be a stalker, and completely oblivious to all the guys who have no interest in meeting them whatsoever. I guess it never occurs to them that most guys have careers and reputations to protect, and that both of those could easily be jeopardized by getting involved with a cam girl IRL.

 

[NyxieDay]

You really only need to do a few basic things, someone can easily drive themselves into a mental breakdown worrying about potential stalkers and covering up everything in their life.

It's called loss of perspective, or black and white thinking. From what I've observed on this forum, most cam girls seem to be completely fixated on the one guy who might be a stalker, and completely oblivious to all the guys who have no interest in meeting them whatsoever. I guess it never occurs to them that most guys have careers and reputations to protect, and that both of those could easily be jeopardized by getting involved with a cam girl IRL.

Umm...do you guys even realize how many of the models :happy-cheerleadersmileyguy: have not only had personal or family experience with DV/SA/Abuse :angry-boxing: , but also have worked in the field? And that's just the female models! :la: The spectrum :rainbow: of predatory :character-jaws: and abusive :teasing-wedgie: behavior is huge :naka: , but it's not always obvious (even if the effects are). :sad11: :sad1:

We lernt stuff gud. :techie-reference: We r speshul with brainz. :teasing-tease: *crosses eyes and drools*

I hope the emotes I used to illustrate my post are useful and demonstrate professionalism. :glasses5:

"Like, rape isn't right around the corner for me, like it is for women. It's messed up." - Donald Glover, reflecting on why female friends always asked him to walk them to their cars.

 

[Azhrarn]

You really only need to do a few basic things, someone can easily drive themselves into a mental breakdown worrying about potential stalkers and covering up everything in their life.

It's called loss of perspective, or black and white thinking. From what I've observed on this forum, most cam girls seem to be completely fixated on the one guy who might be a stalker, and completely oblivious to all the guys who have no interest in meeting them whatsoever. I guess it never occurs to them that most guys have careers and reputations to protect, and that both of those could easily be jeopardized by getting involved with a cam girl IRL.

Umm...do you guys even realize how many of the models have not only had personal or family experience with DV/SA/Abuse, but also have worked in the field? And that's just the female models! The spectrum of predatory and abusive behavior is huge, but it's not always obvious (even if the effects are).

I hope the emotes I used to illustrate my post are useful and demonstrate professionalism.

No, your emotes were neither useful nor professional. What would have been useful and professional would have been to not use acronyms like DV/SA/Abuse instead of just assuming that people would know what they are. The useful and professional thing would have been to first spell them out and then place the acronyms in parentheses afterwards.

 

[AerynShade]

 

[NyxieDay]

You really only need to do a few basic things, someone can easily drive themselves into a mental breakdown worrying about potential stalkers and covering up everything in their life.

It's called loss of perspective, or black and white thinking. From what I've observed on this forum, most cam girls seem to be completely fixated on the one guy who might be a stalker, and completely oblivious to all the guys who have no interest in meeting them whatsoever. I guess it never occurs to them that most guys have careers and reputations to protect, and that both of those could easily be jeopardized by getting involved with a cam girl IRL.

Umm...do you guys even realize how many of the models have not only had personal or family experience with DV/SA/Abuse, but also have worked in the field? And that's just the female models! The spectrum of predatory and abusive behavior is huge, but it's not always obvious (even if the effects are).

I hope the emotes I used to illustrate my post are useful and demonstrate professionalism.

No, your emotes were neither useful nor professional. What would have been useful and professional would have been to not use acronyms like DV/SA/Abuse instead of just assuming that people would know what they are. The useful and professional thing would have been to first spell them out and then place the acronyms in parentheses afterwards.

I apologize, you are correct; I should have been more specific in my explanation.
What I meant by "useful and professional" was as a comedian. I hope that clears the matter up, as I put a lot of thought into looking for the right emotes and quote graphics.

Far more time, indeed, than I spent on the acronyms, which can be remedied here:
http://tinyurl.com/ncevaza

Thank you so much for your patience and consideration, and I again apologize for any inconvenience I presented in your continuing journey to ignoring the lived experiences of the models you have come to chat with.

 

[PRISM]

So do you models that are more guarded and or paranoid keep up the same level of privacy protection for people you meet in the offline world as well?

How do you know that one of the guys that is in a bar,restaurant,cinema etc. is not a serial rapist that is going to different locations to find his next victim? Or someone you mention your name to in offline world is not a creepy stalker.

 

[lexi_love]

I told a cam girl I had known for a short while, "Hey, did you realize...?" And she immediately freaked the fuck out. It actually caused the first disruption in our friendship. Did she ever stop for one second to think, "Hey, any one of my regulars who've been in my room all these months could have figured this out, and probably did figure it out, and never told me?" No, of course not. Instead I became the bad guy for telling her something that was staring her right in the face.

It may not necessarily be that you became the bad guy, it may more likely be because now she is having an internal conflict with how to treat you now that she knows you have private sensitive information.

I never ask my regulars if they've found/seen anything of mine because I would absolutely hate to feel that awkward "oh shit, now he's got this on me" feeling. I guess I'd just rather not know, or have the tip come from an anonymous source.

I agree that she would be conflicted in how to treat someone who knows personal info about her. I cammed for like a week on a different (more amateur) site and had a guy who talked to me a lot save a photo of mine to his phone and message me to say it showed him where I live and to be careful and make sure I removed it from my profile. I had NO idea that my webcam was geotagged and stored my info in the photo because I was super new to this stuff. He brought that to light for me and I am forever grateful to him and remove all exif data now, I probably would never think about it if he hadn't said something. I didnt get mad at him. I knew he was helping me and felt weird about discovering this info about me. I would never be mad at a member for telling me if they discovered personal info of mine on accident and if it is something I need to remove from my profile I will do it pronto! Don't let 1 or 2 bad responses with a model deter you from doing the right thing. I thank that guy for opening my eyes to being more careful with my privacy and see this as a community to look out for one another. I would feel terrible for knowing a models real info somehow and not letting her know just because "she may dislike me for telling her". I have a member now who sends me links of every website my shows have been posted on and sure it can get annoying because you know it exists and dont want it in your face but I appreciate it because he is in my corner letting me be aware of whats happening. :twocents-02cents: