I wonder, do models ever consider how they are perceived by their audience as opposed to how they intend to be perceived?

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Performers adopt the persona that best serves them in two ways. First, it has to make money. Second, it has to be sustainable. So while you may perceive them to "look" like they "should" perform a certain way, your perception doesn't matter. Their ability to maintain their business over time is the key.

 

[L_Edward]

you said you wanted to help models, so i told you how you could. i never made the assumption nor stated that you don't tip. if you do, then that is great! keep up to great work, kid!

Yes, I most certainly do wish to help models be successful. That was the intent. I like cam models. I don't want them to leave because they aren't making enough tips. Yes, I tip quite well. But that is only part of the solution. If models don't think about what they are doing and how to improve, then guys like me end up paying for a show that a lot of freeloaders simply watch. I've been there many times. It is part of my quest to figure out what the models could do about it. I have no way to influence the viewers. Trust me, I would if I could. No amount of effort to encourage others to tip has worked. I see highly successful models who have it nailed. I also see models flailing around helplessly putting in long hours and nothing to show for it. Believe me, there is a lot those models can do about it if they just knew how. BTW-If you think freeloaders annoy you, try being the big tipper, have freeloaders make demands and see the model do what they say. Yeah, pretty annoying mistake many models make. Do you really think I will keep that up for long? I will have plenty of questions for models. All asked with the intention of helping them step up their game, if that is their desire. If you believe you are doing everything optimally, great! Ignore me. But if it makes you think, then that is a good thing.

 

[Sevrin]

L. Can I call you L? Relax. You've been here all of 2 days. Maybe some more lurking is in order, eh? Kick back and read a whole bunch of posts. There's shitloads to read here.

There's a lot of wisdom that's already been bestowed by savvy members on these forums. So. Much. Wisdom. After a while, you get so satiated with all the wisdom, you kind of need a breather. Here comes the choo-choo. Wisdom is good for you! Sage advice ad fucking nauseam. From people who don't have the sense to earn anyone's confidence, I might add. I mean, this is the internet. These people make their living on the internet. Saying you're an experienced lover of models here has about as much currency as saying you have a 15-inch dick.

Sometimes you just want a break from the wisdom.

 

[L_Edward]

Performers adopt the persona that best serves them in two ways. First, it has to make money. Second, it has to be sustainable. So while you may perceive them to "look" like they "should" perform a certain way, your perception doesn't matter. Their ability to maintain their business over time is the key.

True enough. All my question was suggesting is that a performer should consider how they are being perceived. Do it, or don't do it. I recommend it. Perception is a major factor in the success of any performer. It deserves consideration. That is my point. In other words, if your intention is "A" but the audience is perceiving "B" you may wish to tweek your performance to be perceived more like "A". I am not telling anyone not to be "A" or that they should be "B".

 

[MaePeach]

It is naive to suggest that models don't consider how they're being perceived by their audience. It's literally our job to emulate whatever it is our target audience desires, and to do what we like within our room and the community we build. I'm sure there are models that haven't figured out what works for them yet, but if they're here to make money, most are trying to figure out what works.

It is not a one size fits all thing either.what you may perceive to be "wrong", "annoying", or a "turn off", others may love. What you may feel is pushing viewers away, you should remind yourself: it's pushing *you* away, you and your opinions don't make up the entire audience.

We know, we actively think about it, it's the job. We will read the room, so to speak. We are also human, and we make mistakes. It's hard to be "on" 100% of the time.

Most of my points have already been made by others though, so

 

[L_Edward]

L. Can I call you L? Relax. You've been here all of 2 days. Maybe some more lurking is in order, eh? Kick back and read a whole bunch of posts. There's shitloads to read here.

There's a lot of wisdom that's already been bestowed by savvy members on these forums. So. Much. Wisdom. After a while, you get so satiated with all the wisdom, you kind of need a breather. Here comes the choo-choo. Wisdom is good for you! Sage advice ad fucking nauseam. From people who don't have the sense to earn anyone's confidence, I might add. I mean, this is the internet. These people make their living on the internet. Saying you're an experienced lover of models here has about as much currency as saying you have a 15-inch dick.

Sometimes you just a break from the wisdom.

View attachment 81418

So...I have been putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to respond? As many a model has said, "If you don't like me....."

 

[L_Edward]

It is naive to suggest that models don't consider how they're being perceived by their audience. It's literally our job to emulate whatever it is our target audience desires, and to do what we like within our room and the community we build. I'm sure there are models that haven't figured out what works for them yet, but if they're here to make money, most are trying to figure out what works.

It is not a one size fits all thing either.what you may perceive to be "wrong", "annoying", or a "turn off", others may love. What you may feel is pushing viewers away, you should remind yourself: it's pushing *you* away, you and your opinions don't make up the entire audience.

We know, we actively think about it, it's the job. We will read the room, so to speak. We are also human, and we make mistakes. It's hard to be "on" 100% of the time.

Most of my points have already been made by others though, so

I did not suggest models do or do not consider how they are perceived. I simply asked if they did and cited a few reasons for my question. Many do apparently. That's great. That is what I wanted to know. Then some people felt offended and began to accuse me of saying things I didn't say. See for yourself. I haven't deleted any of my postings. Addendum: I am not suggesting anyone do anything differently for my benefit. There are plenty of models that I like just fine. My question was simply to try to understand what I am seeing. It was not accusatory in any way and frankly, I am surprised by the blow-back. For the most part a simple "yes" or "no" would have sufficed. But it opened up a lot of opinions and not so pleasant misinterpretations. Interesting.

 

[MaePeach]

I did not suggest models do or do not consider how they are perceived. I simply asked if they did and cited a few reasons for my question. Many do apparently. That's great. That is what I wanted to know. Then some people felt offended and began to accuse me of saying things I didn't say. See for yourself. I haven't deleted any of my postings.

I read through everything before replying, and you're not seeing my point. The question itself is the problem. The question sort of implies that, at least to me and many others based on replies.

Look at it this way, what reaction would you get if you approached a group of chefs and said "do you think about how your food tastes to everyone?"

It can come off negatively. Of course they consider this, it's the job. Which is exactly the point I made prior.

 

[L_Edward]

I have to agree you are correct. But I am sure chef's constantly check to make sure their food pleases their customers. In fact, many probably sample it periodically. My point is that one should do something not that you or any particular model doesn't My question was do you consider it and if you do, how do you check? I clearly stated what I do for the model I Mod for who is also my closest friend. I am sure most model's don't have that. I was wondering if they have a method. Here is an example: One night my Model started PMing with some viewer she knows. This went on for several minutes while the other guys were tipping and seeking her attention. She would smile and thank them then return to her PM. Typing, typing, typing and no one knowing what they are talking about. This went on for several minutes. After the show I emailed her to find out what the heck she was doing. She knows better than that. Turns out it wasn't one guy but three in a row. When I explained to her that to everyone else it seemed she was focused on some "special guy" she realized her error. She didn't realize how it was being perceived. If I hadn't been there to tell her, it could have happened again. Do that too many times and the room seems like the fire alarm went off. She lost several viewers who had been tipping.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Just touch your wiener, man

 

[dark_mermaid]

What "type" of models are you watching? Studio model or independent?

 

[SaffronBurke]

To quote @AudriTwo, what happened to just jerking off? It is so weird that dudes keep coming along who want to analyze this aspect or that aspect of camming. Shhhhhhh. That's our job, not yours. Calm down and just masturbate.

 

[Mila_]

Okay, I am going to be the doo doo person here and flash OP a smile. I think the point got across and he was even nice about all the criticism his post got. So I will move on and try to respond to the question he asked.

Personally... I think it is a lot of fun to play with people's perceptions and expectations. They expect a camsite to be one thing, I like to be the one to disrupt and subvert it. They believe my room is about one thing and one day out of the blue I throw them a curve and show them an entirely different side of me. It's fun to see people's reaction when you present them with something new, you can almost hear their neurons firing, new brain paths being built.

Models don't always know how they come across or that they need to keep an eye on it. New camgirls generally believe camsites are like real life and they arrive thinking and feeling with their private self, so they are excessively polite, some let themselves be pushed around, others overcompensate and come across as mercenaries that are only interested in the member's tokens. It takes a long time to learn how to manage that balancing act between the person that you are and the one you need to be. To present yourself in a way that is both sensitive to what members want and respectful of your own soft side.

So yeah, I think it is a legitimate question to ask models, and it could possibly spark an interesting conversation. Perhaps if you removed yourself from the situation and presented it as a simple question instead of something tied to yourself as a supposed advisor models here would take your question more seriously and be less irked by it.

 

[Lucid1]

To the OP:

Not trying to be offensive, but one of the main ways to measure perception(done by them and not you) in these Ladies/Men line of work is for them to analyse earnings/tipping patterns. In other words, data metrics. If what they are doing is successful, their earnings will reflect it, and it is something that they themselves can choose to analyse as a measure of how they are being perceived. And of course, what works for one model might not work for another, but the main way they have to quantify this is through earnings, the same as with any entertainment business.

Of course there are other metrics that can be used as well, everything from member feedback in the form of a review, a thumbs up/down, or general comments in chat such as "That outfit you have on tonight is amazing!". While the latter is much harder to parse and quantify, the model can still glean valuable information from such feedback and make changes if she/he feels it is warranted - and she/he just might decide to wear that same outfit again if enough members are both tipping, and making positive comments about it. Also, some models seem to have a more keen grasp on the pulse of their membership, much like Mila_ above, but she is much more qualified than you or I in providing feedback or mentoring to anyone in their profession. As a member, I can only show my support(positive perception) through tipping, positive feedback or the rare constructive criticism done in a private manner.

 

[AudriTwo]

It is estimated that over 80% of new models quit after two months. This is a hard competitive industry. There is also a plethora of new girls coming all the time under the impression that this is easy money. This job also has a learning curve. Models will adapt as time goes on. They will learn how to conduct their room. If a model is ignoring tips and doing the freeloader requests, then they are a moron. They will either learn this isn't the best way to conduct your room or quit because their tippers stopped tipping and no longer getting much traffic.

This whole thread makes me think you need to stick to masturbation. Stop analyzing us cammodels like we are some kind of product. We are human, and make mistakes. Some models do dumb things. Because humans do dumb things.

And I'm also thinking "I cannot stand the helping cammember type and I'm so thankful to be on a site where there aren't many." Not trying to knock chaturbate members, but most of you guys have this weird ego of helping models from my interactions here with other CB dudes. It's annoying imo. And God bless the models who tolerate it. I wonder if these models act like a box a rocks for the hustle. Because apparently you all tip.

 

[Sansa]

My apologies if you see it as condescending. That is not my intention. You see, I was once an entertainer myself. A musician in a band. I knew many other musicians and performers. Sometimes I would find a performer who was extremely talented but wasn't as successful as they should be. Sometimes it was because they were doing, saying or acting in a way they thought was entertaining but was not seen that way by audiences. I see the same thing with cam models. Some do things that are diametrically opposite of what they should be doing. For instance, an extremely lovely looking model who comes on way too strong with sexual suggestions as soon as you start to chat with her. It just doesn't "fit" the viewers preconception. Just as many models find it off-putting when a viewer bursts into the room and obnoxiously starts making demands for sexual activity, some models do this to viewers who are still in the "getting to know you" mode. It makes me wonder why. I am just trying to understand things that don't make sense to me, not trying to offend anyone. My current hypothesis is that the models don't consider how they are seen by others. It is only a hypothesis, not a fact.

This is one of those things that is still highly dependent on the individual though. When I was on MGF regularly, it was pretty much expected that the girls message the guys first. I mostly used the site casually and would only message someone who had something interesting on their profile, but the most successful girls on there were actually the ones who jump right into the sexual stuff immediately. Sure there's no build up or connection, but not everyone wants that.

I've had member accounts on a few different sites (namely MFC and MGF) and I have to say the for the second part, it really doesn't compare. When I'd get messaged by a model first, it was rarely sexual immediately. Most were just a hello or a question if I was interested in a private. Some were flirty, but not overly so. This is very different from the vast number of times a model will receive very rude and demanding messages from members that are overly sexual from the start. These two things do not compare AT ALL.

 

[L_Edward]

Okay, I am going to be the doo doo person here and flash OP a smile. I think the point got across and he was even nice about all the criticism his post got. So I will move on and try to respond to the question he asked.

Personally... I think it is a lot of fun to play with people's perceptions and expectations. They expect a camsite to be one thing, I like to be the one to disrupt and subvert it. They believe my room is about one thing and one day out of the blue I throw them a curve and show them an entirely different side of me. It's fun to see people's reaction when you present them with something new, you can almost hear their neurons firing, new brain paths being built.

Models don't always know how they come across or that they need to keep an eye on it. New camgirls generally believe camsites are like real life and they arrive thinking and feeling with their private self, so they are excessively polite, some let themselves be pushed around, others overcompensate and come across as mercenaries that are only interested in the member's tokens. It takes a long time to learn how to manage that balancing act between the person that you are and the one you need to be. To present yourself in a way that is both sensitive to what members want and respectful of your own soft side.

So yeah, I think it is a legitimate question to ask models, and it could possibly spark an interesting conversation. Perhaps if you removed yourself from the situation and presented it as a simple question instead of something tied to yourself as a supposed advisor models here would take your question more seriously and be less irked by it.

Thank you for the civility of your answer and I will take your advice under advisement. I honestly never expected so much negativity. My life experience is in business. I see and understand that cam modeling is indeed a business. In fact it is a very lucrative business for the websites. I also see models who are basically dabbling for fun or extra spending money on one hand and models struggling to live on the other. There are many ways models who wish to can improve their income that have little to do with what they do sexually and a whole lot to what they should be considering as a business person. I would never presume to tell any model about what they do regarding sexual activity or nudity. My focus of my question was business related. How any performer is perceived by their audience makes a difference. I was just wondering if they consider that fact. Some, not all, but some of the replies were rather unpleasant.

 

[L_Edward]

Yep I read it as condescending. I can gauge by interactions and quite frankly, there are plenty of other models to watch if my particular cam personality doesn’t vibe with what you want. Telling someone their personality isn’t being received well would make them pissed off or self conscious. Those are two things you don’t want a model to be.

I understand your point. Thanks. It was not my intention to cause harm only to understand disparities is see. You seem to have a mechanism to measure perception. That is great. Kudos to you.

 

[L_Edward]

you said you wanted to help models, so i told you how you could. i never made the assumption nor stated that you don't tip. if you do, then that is great! keep up to great work, kid!

Again, thank you for your response.

 

[Mila_]

Thank you for the civility of your answer and I will take your advice under advisement. I honestly never expected so much negativity. My life experience is in business. I see and understand that cam modeling is indeed a business. In fact it is a very lucrative business for the websites. I also see models who are basically dabbling for fun or extra spending money on one hand and models struggling to live on the other. There are many ways models who wish to can improve their income that have little to do with what they do sexually and a whole lot to what they should be considering as a business person. I would never presume to tell any model about what they do regarding sexual activity or nudity. My focus of my question was business related. How any performer is perceived by their audience makes a difference. I was just wondering if they consider that fact. Some, not all, but some of the replies were rather unpleasant.

Oh man... now I look like a moron for being nice.. are you at all interested in the question you asked or in showing how business savvy you are? my advice was to remove yourself from the thread and focus on your valid question and offered you a bridge into turning this thread into what it was meant to be instead of somewhere you get bashed by sharing my experience in an answer to your original question and instead of taking the bridge and engaging with my answer you reply to me with 3 paragraphs about why your advice is adequate. It’s like you are begging to be roasted

Look, I know it looks like many models don’t have a clue. Some don’t. Most know way more about running their business than you would ever know. The differences with a vanilla business are so big you can’t possibly give a camgirl advice worth anything.

While on vanilla business anyone would be mad if you called them a little pathetic bitch, and never return to your establishment, that very phrase has earned more than a camgirl a really big paycheck and returning costumers. Some men get off on women who completely ignore them. That clueless camgirl looking at her phone? She might be clueless yeah, OR she might have a regular who blasts her with money for pretending like he is insignificant to her. Showing up to work every day? Necessary for success in vanilla business, completely devaluating and overkill for a goddess persona. Timely delivery of paid for items and content? Savvy tactic for a vanilla business, not so smart for a camgirl who wants you to come back tomorrow and tip her again... if she can delay you getting the goods she might hook you long term. Most of the time this job has nothing to do with what is massively appealing, polite and common sense... and everything to do with what your handful of generous tippers are into.

There is just so so so much you can’t possibly understand about this business it is better you stick to your lane and let models be models and figure out their hustle. Some angles are way beyond your wildest imagination. Right now you have exactly the same expertise as any new camgirl before hitting “stream” for the first time. I had experience in online marketing and I was a clueless hot mess on my first broadcast. I was still a clueless hot mess 6 months later. You wanna give models helpful advice? Cam. Cam for a living. Cam hard and without a safety net. Make it in this industry. Learn a ton by doing so. Then maybe someone will take your advice seriously

 

[L_Edward]

Oh man... now I look like a moron for being nice.. are you at all interested in the question you asked or in showing how business savvy you are? my advice was to remove yourself from the thread and focus on your valid question and offered you a bridge into turning this thread into what it was meant to be instead of somewhere you get bashed by sharing my experience in an answer to your original question and instead of taking the bridge and engaging with my answer you reply to me with 3 paragraphs about why your advice is adequate. It’s like you are begging to be roasted

Look, I know it looks like many models don’t have a clue. Some don’t. Most know way more about running their business than you would ever know. The differences with a vanilla business are so big you can’t possibly give a camgirl advice worth anything.

While on vanilla business anyone would be mad if you called them a little pathetic bitch, and never return to your establishment, that very phrase has earned more than a camgirl a really big paycheck and returning costumers. Some men get off on women who completely ignore them. That clueless camgirl looking at her phone? She might be clueless yeah, OR she might have a regular who blasts her with money for pretending like he is insignificant to her. Showing up to work every day? Necessary for success in vanilla business, completely devaluating and overkill for a goddess persona. Timely delivery of paid for items and content? Savvy tactic for a vanilla business, not so smart for a camgirl who wants you to come back tomorrow and tip her again... if she can delay you getting the goods she might hook you long term. Most of the time this job has nothing to do with what is massively appealing, polite and common sense... and everything to do with what your handful of generous tippers are into.

There is just so so so much you can’t possibly understand about this business it is better you stick to your lane and let models be models and figure out their hustle. Some angles are way beyond your wildest imagination. Right now you have exactly the same expertise as any new camgirl before hitting “stream” for the first time. I had experience in online marketing and I was a clueless hot mess on my first broadcast. I was still a clueless hot mess 6 months later. You wanna give models helpful advice? Cam. Cam for a living. Cam hard and without a safety net. Make it in this industry. Learn a ton by doing so. Then maybe someone will take your advice seriously

My question was a business question not judgement on morality. Yes, I have business experience. I have been in business longer than any of you have been alive. I have learned many things and wish to assist others who have businesses of their own. I am sorry if you see me as arrogant. That is certainly not the case. There are sound business practices that apply to any business. It doesn't matter what the business is. They can be very helpful. I offer them. Take them or leave them as you see fit. They have merit whether you think so or not.

 

[SaffronBurke]

Thank you for the civility of your answer and I will take your advice under advisement. I honestly never expected so much negativity. My life experience is in business. I see and understand that cam modeling is indeed a business. In fact it is a very lucrative business for the websites. I also see models who are basically dabbling for fun or extra spending money on one hand and models struggling to live on the other. There are many ways models who wish to can improve their income that have little to do with what they do sexually and a whole lot to what they should be considering as a business person. I would never presume to tell any model about what they do regarding sexual activity or nudity. My focus of my question was business related. How any performer is perceived by their audience makes a difference. I was just wondering if they consider that fact. Some, not all, but some of the replies were rather unpleasant.

I'm starting to think that you have a humiliation fetish and this whole thread is just so everyone can get you off for free.

 

[NotYou]

On a side note.. @Mila_ I just noticed that your photo has a banana on your head.. or am I seeing things? I have seen that photo many times with your posts but for some reason never noticed the banana - i just assumed it was a ribbon or something wow haha



...anyway, carry on all.

 

[L_Edward]

I'm starting to think that you have a humiliation fetish and this whole thread is just so everyone can get you off for free.

I don't feel I am being humiliated in any way. What makes you think that? People can debate, disagree or even argue without it having a sexual connotation. It has been my experience that when people stop debating the point and start engaging ad hominem attacks, it just means you have won your point.

 

[Danigirl]

Dude, I have 2 bachelors degrees in business and a ton of experience in my degrees before camming. Know how much that has helped me in camming??! Psychology courses and marketing have but pure business courses don’t have textbooks that really assist in camming. It’s all about experience, tough skin and perseverance. Camming is a shit ton of trial and error to find what works and some dude with an attitude that he knows better than I do in my own cam room isn’t going to fly.

As a viewer you aren’t going to understand the dynamics of our room. You won’t know why we suddenly switched to bossy and cutting in our words and alienating some viewers. It’s because my cuck came into the room and he loves when I’m rude to him. He tips generously and I know that. You won’t. You won’t know why I suddenly grabbed a pink toy and start playing. It’s because I saw a member come in who had sent it to me from my wishlist a few months ago. These are things only a model will know.

Unless your advice is solicited, just play with your dick and go with the flow. There’s always a back button to find a model who suits you. Plenty of other awesome models have answered your questions even though you don’t seem to like the answer.

 

[L_Edward]

With all due respect, you have two bachelor degrees in business. That makes you unique among cam models not typical. Your thinking is already influenced by what you were taught. Most models have no such formal training. As far as my advice being solicited or not, this is a public forum. One can ask about whatever interests them. I am not complaining about any particular model and I have models I am perfectly content with. I appreciate every answer I receive even if it doesn't address the question. The dick reference is unwarranted. I don't know why you chose to go there. You have two bachelor degrees in business. Tell me, is "trial and error" the only thing you recommend? Are you saying that quantifying the effectiveness of your performance has no value? That there is no point to measuring or evaluating effectiveness?

 

[dark_mermaid]

Is the model you are mod for a studio or an independent model? Are the other models that you watch studio or independent models?

Camsites are full of studio models, while here in this forum (someone correct me), the number of studio models is zero or very close to zero.

 

[L_Edward]

I a Room Mod for a Model who is a personal friend of mine. She was in a studio when I found her and I managed to persuade her to go independent. I have served as a Room Mod and/or Knight for several Models over the years. Most were studio Models.

 

[AmberCutie]

The dick reference is unwarranted.

It's not really, though.

The point is that members like you seem to be on cam sites for the wrong reasons. Making comments like "just stick to jerking off" or "play with your dick and go with the flow" are indicating that you should really just sit back and enjoy the site for what it's made for instead of trying to play business advisor to models. What you're doing never goes over well at places like this where we're invested enough in our cam career to be part of a separate site/community to discuss our work with our peers. You might have had more luck with this in rooms where models are less informed on how camming works, or in studio models' rooms, but the feedback here is that majority of us more informed models would be peeved if you approached us with the question in your topic title.

 

[Danigirl]

I’m really not that unique among models. There are tons of book smart people that cam but there’s also street smarts that I think are even more effective.

Of course you can ask questions on a forum. I was referring to not pestering a working cam model and telling her that you think her show isn’t what she thought she was trying to portray. That’s where I said unless solicited to just enjoy the room.

Camming is intuitive. You simply try to find the best idea you think will work and then tweak as you go. Knowing cash flows, HR, and accounting doesn’t help you on cam. Helps with taxes. So you saying you have tons of business experience means jack shit. Knowing I need to hit x amount of money a month or a day influences how I cam. I would take the advise of a cam girl with high school or lower education that has been successful for years over the advise of a graduate degree any day. She’s survived and thrived. You’re so far just using conjecture with no real life application.