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Marijuana users must turn in their weapons within 30 days

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Gotcha. I wish I hadn't even brought that up, should have just stuck to the Livingston opinion piece and left the Castille shooting out of it. (I thought the Livingston article was what you meant enraged you).
I've been phone scrolling not clicking on links, but just read that article. I was unaware but not surprised.
 
The Honolulu Police Department has told legal marijuana users who own guns that they must turn in their weapons within 30 days.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/...al-marijuana-users-to-turn-in-their-firearms/

Fake news or SCOTUS bound?

No, it is not fake news. Although, the cops are bag pedaling on enforcement. I'm a small investor in the local medical MJ dispensaries, and we have a meeting on Friday, where I'm sure the subject will come up. My guess is they won't do anything for existing folk who have a medical MJ card and own guns, but they will deny medical MJ cards to folks who own guns in the future.

As long as marijuana remains a federal class 1 narcotic all of this crap will continue. Sadly, as long as Session is the AG that's not going change.
 
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I say we bulldoze Monticello. That rat-bastard king-subverting traitor Jefferson grew hemp. Not the kind of role model the law abiding need...

NIJJ8F6.png


In that case, fuck current gun control laws. I was a Ma-Duece and all the other full auto weapons available and millions of rounds along with. All in. Right?



Did you even read any of what I wrote, or are you arguing just for the sake of hearing yourself argue?
 
Did you even read any of what I wrote, or are you arguing just for the sake of hearing yourself argue?
I did. Here is a loose interpretation, a paragraph by paragraph breakdown...
  • Marijuana is ok, just like alcohol.
  • Employer rights, testing, homegrown and packaging, and discussions!
  • Marijuana is ok, just like alcohol, we can use those laws as a model...
  • But what about all the other drugs?
  • Another too-wordy rehash of the Castile shooting.
  • A reminder that ForceTen isn't talking about the Castile shooting.
  • Marijuana is against the law. Castile was a liar.
  • ForceTen roleplays as lead prosecutor in a posthumous trial of Castile in the court of public opinion.
  • ForceTen makes his final statements to the jury about the Castile shooting, which I presume he still isn't talking about.
  • Unlike Castile, ForceTen and those he knows are noble upstanding gun-owners.
  • A final reminder that all this has nothing to do with the Castile shooting...just a primer on sound decision making.



We are talking about two different things I think..

1. Dana Loesch, prominent NRA member, is happy to carry water for the War on Drugs crowd (her comments the only reason I posted the link to that story).
2. Many sane people have realized the War on Drugs (certainly as it applies to marijuana) is a load of counterproductive bullshit. It is wrong. It has been harmful. It has been abusive. Perhaps intentionally so.
3. Is the NRA going to step up? Are they going to be a bunch of made-in-China Reaganite "patriots"? Or are they going to....







Law-Enforcement-Action-Partnership-Root-of-Criminal-Justice.png

How many of the points in this graphic have you personally seen? Quite a few in the areas I have lived. All federally incentivized...
So let the 2nd amendmenters come get some of this freedom and liberty. Let em keep telling themselves it's just them thugs and streetwalkers over on MLK Blvd that are the problem.
And when you got interdiction units pulling folks over on the interstate so the dogs can sniff for gun oil, don't you worry none; I am sure there will be people in the 3-letter agencies that can hook you up with that .50 you want.
 
I'm with you in that the war on drugs is a convoluted mess. I see things from both a legal perspective, as well as a common-sense viewpoint. I was giving talking points on the Castille case because of laws as they currently stand, and why they unfolded they way they did. Whether you like it or not, until laws are changed, they will have an impact on legal cases. Right or wrong, the law still applies.
Personally, I am happy to see laws loosen up on marijuana. But, that doesn't mean free and without rules or repercussions. Laws should apply to things such as DUI, workplace and other issues. Like alcohol, it can be mood altering and is known to cause reaction issues. Therefore, it becomes a safety issue. So, I can agree with these rules. I don't agree with arresting someone for having a bag of it, as they don't arrest someone for having a carton or two of cigs.

BTW, we all knew this would happen:
http://www.businessinsider.com/californias-marijuana-industry-may-be-in-deep-trouble-2017-11
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/marijuana-prices-plunging-colorado-could-164100465.html

I'm not arguing with you about how some things are unfair, or unjust. It's a part of life, and we change what we can and where it makes sense. If we can't, there's two choices: Accept it and go on by not breaking the laws. Or, don't accept it and continue to do things while knowing at some point will have a legal interaction again. Plain and simple. If you continue on and accept the risk of getting caught, it's on you and no one else to blame. So, in many ways, I have little sympathy. Even if I don't agree with the law.

Getting back to the war on drugs, what's your solution? Rather than just bitching about it, what's your solution?
 
I'm with you in that the war on drugs is a convoluted mess. I see things from both a legal perspective, as well as a common-sense viewpoint. I was giving talking points on the Castille case because of laws as they currently stand, and why they unfolded they way they did. Whether you like it or not, until laws are changed, they will have an impact on legal cases. Right or wrong, the law still applies.
Personally, I am happy to see laws loosen up on marijuana. But, that doesn't mean free and without rules or repercussions. Laws should apply to things such as DUI, workplace and other issues. Like alcohol, it can be mood altering and is known to cause reaction issues. Therefore, it becomes a safety issue. So, I can agree with these rules. I don't agree with arresting someone for having a bag of it, as they don't arrest someone for having a carton or two of cigs.
I know, right? We got so much freedom and liberty, we got nothing left to worry about now but safety!


I would like to see all the costs of the items listed on the graphic from LEAP included in these calculations. Quarterly profits related to the marijuana industry mean little to me. I am not buying, selling, manufacturing, or profiting from it in any way.
I'm not arguing with you about how some things are unfair, or unjust. It's a part of life, and we change what we can and where it makes sense. If we can't, there's two choices: Accept it and go on by not breaking the laws. Or, don't accept it and continue to do things while knowing at some point will have a legal interaction again. Plain and simple. If you continue on and accept the risk of getting caught, it's on you and no one else to blame. So, in many ways, I have little sympathy. Even if I don't agree with the law.
Acceptance of govt policy, or feel the boot...
Getting back to the war on drugs, what's your solution? Rather than just bitching about it, what's your solution?
Well, like I said, I donated a little money, I signed a petition or two, I did the NORML thing way back. Whether it had any effect or not in the larger scheme of things, I don't know.

One thing I am not going to do is regurgitate this corrupt government's war propaganda for them, e.g. "controlled substance/smell of marijuana" garbage.

Personally, I think the War on Drugs has served it's purpose, so the whole issue may be moot. We are accustomed to the SWAT raids, the no knock warrants by military, the mass incarceration, pointless deaths, all the things listed in the LEAP graphic I posted, etc. Now we can move on; we are now at the War on Sex Traffickers stage.

Now this part is interesting. Consider the issue of the government running Playpen on the darkweb...
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/09/playpen-story-fbis-unprecedented-and-illegal-hacking-operation
I was willing to give the FBI benefit of the doubt here considering the heinous nature of this, while a much more conservative family member was horrified by it (her opinion that then-president Obama was the Antichrist may have affected her feelings on the matter).

Following the internet propaganda over the last year in an attempt to discern what (if any) truth was behind the whole pizzagate issue, I have read a lot of encouragement of the idea that mass arrests are an indication that 'elites' will soon fall. Laughable imo, especially looking into a number of local news stories across the country over the last year/listening to Congressional hearings on sex trafficking.

Just like the War on Drugs in no way prevented whatever shady shit was going on in Mena, Arkansas years ago, I don't think the War on Sex Trafficking is going to take away Epstein's private island, or keep the Clinton family from visiting it, or keep the Bush family from associating with callboys (if they so desire).

The more I have read into Federal corruption over the last year, the more suspicious I become over this story...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-foundation-sentenced-to-18-months-in-prison/
He may well have earned that 42 year cp prison sentence, idk. But the more I look at my government, the more conspiracy minded I become. It is because they appear to be anything but trustworthy.

Or consider this one...
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/...n-russia-fake-news-hacking-cybersecurity.html
There is that word, "kompromat" LOL. Now I don't know if this article was put out by guilty people looking to cast doubt, or people that genuinely had evidence planted on them. What I do know is that no matter how hard they point the finger at Russia, well....I trust the US, the UK, the Israeli, the EU govts about as much.

Now this is reportedly being done for the sake of the children, an arguably worthy cause. That doesn't justify the propaganda efforts re. the war against white supremacy, or the war against Russian propaganda, or the war against hate speech that our little leftist cult is so valiantly fighting.

The Fourth Amendment has been trashed. The First may soon follow. And if they Second holds, it is going to mean little if you find yourself sitting naked in a cell next to a Glock.

I do think there is a war on the 2nd amendment. There is a lot of shit on the NRA youtube channel I agree with tbh. On the other hand, some of it makes me want to gag. It is sort of like Sean Hannity and Dana Loesch; they may have a piece of the truth, but if they are going openly promote their fave flavor of fascism along the way, then piss on the both of them, and their little Chinese made NRA fannypacks too.

So I guess my answer to the War on Drugs is to understand this; a lot of the foot soldiers conducting it are well meaning people of integrity; I think a lot of them are criminals themselves who would just as obediently drop canisters of Zyklon B as dig through somebody's trunk; and I think all of them, knowingly or not, are waging a war on behalf of a criminal cabal.

"Of the people, by the people, and for the people" appears to be nothing but a myth at the moment. 8 minute vid:



(sorry i called your head verbose, forgive me I was annoyed)
 
Personally, I think the War on Drugs has served it's purpose, so the whole issue may be moot. We are accustomed to the SWAT raids, the no knock warrants by military, the mass incarceration, pointless deaths, all the things listed in the LEAP graphic I posted, etc. Now we can move on; we are now at the War on Sex Traffickers stage.

Many of those things on the LEAP image occur in crimes outside of drug-related ones. So, to say they are solely due to drug crimes is an incorrect statement. I won't disagree with you that in many ways some things went way out of hand. But, we're long past the days of cops only carrying a .38special revolver and wearing a suit. Especially when drug criminals have military grade weapons and firearms converted to full auto. You can't say it's solely due to the militarization of the police either, as their militarization occurred as a result of stronger criminal weapons. Doesn't necessarily condone how things have gone. But, like anything, give an inch and a mile is taken.

So I guess my answer to the War on Drugs is to understand this; a lot of the foot soldiers conducting it are well meaning people of integrity; I think a lot of them are criminals themselves who would just as obediently drop canisters of Zyklon B as dig through somebody's trunk; and I think all of them, knowingly or not, are waging a war on behalf of a criminal cabal.

This happens with many things, and rather than going down the rabbit hole you're attempting to, I'll just agree with you that it's extremely complex and like all things Gov't should be reviewed and re-evaluated by independent outside resources to ensure things, like we're talking about, don't happen. Or, are extremely minimized and corrected once found. The problem is, how to ensure it's a legitimate review as anything Gov't and money related tends to draw those looking to make lucrative money by covering it up. Thus, the cycle continues.

But, let's take a step back and look at the drug issue from a perspective other than law enforcement. What's your solution for tackling the ever-increasing drug use rate that leads to high rates of addictions, overdoses, and destruction of families from said events? It isn't all related to the "foot soldiers" and jack-booted govt thugs you claim them to be.

What's your solution for people who would rather spend money on drugs to temporarily escape the plight of their reality, rather than save it to better themselves and rise above their situation? What about when it's people in the suburbs who have money to spend and are looking for something to do? What happens when these recreational uses turn into OD's due to inexperience, higher tolerance levels and looking for the next level of high, or a bad mix of drugs which are laced with something?

Ever hear of Narcan Parties? What's your solution to these situations when people deliberately take their highs to lethal levels and rely on first responders to use Narcan to save them? This puts a heavy burden on emergency services, as well as a high cost for taxpayers. Let people buy it themselves and administer it? Already happens in many areas. But, still, they call when someone doesn't respond to Narcan. Or, they OD again because their toxicity levels are so high that the amount of Narcan said individual requires is more than they have on hand.

What about the millions of people suffering mental and emotional issues that have turned to drugs, or their brains are now so damaged from drug use? What about those who attempt suicide by taking drugs?

It isn't all just about Gov't conspiracies, as you seem to so easily dismiss it.


But the more I look at my government, the more conspiracy minded I become. It is because they appear to be anything but trustworthy.

I question everything the Gov't does, including local gov't. But, not so much in the conspiracy-minded view that many have. Yes, I'm realistic in that I know there's are conspiracies occurring. I'd be a fool to believe otherwise.
The vast majority of my questioning of Gov't is along the lines of:
- Was this a sound decision, and what was the basis to come to this conclusion?
- Is this needed? What is the benefit? Are there other ways to achieve the same result?
- What happens if this turns out to be worse than the current situation? Who's held responsible?
- Why? (Open-ended question)

There's a lot of things I don't trust of the Gov't. Yet, there's also stuff I do in that it's well-intended and should be self-explanatory. The problem comes down to different people having different interpretations of the existing laws, who also have different views, goals, etc. Throw in the that it is other people's money, and many look at it as a blank check with unlimited resources. Let's not forget to mention the extreme polarization of political views...

Certainly not a simple solution, as is the case with many things in life.
 
Many of those things on the LEAP image occur in crimes outside of drug-related ones. So, to say they are solely due to drug crimes is an incorrect statement. I won't disagree with you that in many ways some things went way out of hand. But, we're long past the days of cops only carrying a .38special revolver and wearing a suit. Especially when drug criminals have military grade weapons and firearms converted to full auto. You can't say it's solely due to the militarization of the police either, as their militarization occurred as a result of stronger criminal weapons. Doesn't necessarily condone how things have gone. But, like anything, give an inch and a mile is taken.
Those items listed aren't all 100% direct results of the Drug War, and no one is saying they are; but you have to be deaf, dumb, blind, and ignorant to say it hasn't had huge impact in many of those areas, and completely propagandized to spout an absurdity like "drug criminals" when you are talking about "violent criminals". The only reason they are "drug criminals" is because of the War on Drugs.

If you got somebody spraying the street down with an AK, I want to see some government lead in him quick, and I want the police able to do it no hesitation. I don't want them kicking in doors for non-violent offenses, doing cavity searches on the fucking side of roads, throwing flashbangs into baby cribs, or groping entire high schools just because of this 40+ year racket Team America has been running to bring the population to heel.
This happens with many things, and rather than going down the rabbit hole you're attempting to, I'll just agree with you that it's extremely complex and like all things Gov't should be reviewed and re-evaluated by independent outside resources to ensure things, like we're talking about, don't happen. Or, are extremely minimized and corrected once found. The problem is, how to ensure it's a legitimate review as anything Gov't and money related tends to draw those looking to make lucrative money by covering it up. Thus, the cycle continues.
That is not a rabbit hole I am going down, more of a deep dark hole I see my country going down. And shit just seems to be getting darker by the day. As Chris Hedges said, the system has lost the ability to reform itself. A typical "who will oversee the overseers" dilemma.
But, let's take a step back and look at the drug issue from a perspective other than law enforcement. What's your solution for tackling the ever-increasing drug use rate that leads to high rates of addictions, overdoses, and destruction of families from said events? It isn't all related to the "foot soldiers" and jack-booted govt thugs you claim them to be.
The solution is for me to deal with drug problems in my own life, which is pretty much limited to caffeine and nicotine. When you start worrying about the collective like that, you open the door to the Hitlers and the Stalins, and foot soldiers and jack-booted thugs seem to be their solution of choice.

I worked with a woman who was strung out for years. Lectured her on more than one occasion, but I never called the cops on her. She worked through it, never got caught, eventually cleaned up. Another one I knew got caught at 18 with crack, and she was pretty much fucked after that.

Now it is a different story when people get violent, begin stealing, etc. Then I want the state involved. I don't want them using law enforcement to try and brute force away addictions and overdoses, and destroying families under the farcical pretense of stopping the destruction of families.

But yes, let's take a huge enormous step back from this 40+ year disaster of looking at this from a law enforcement perspective.
Ever hear of Narcan Parties? What's your solution to these situations when people deliberately take their highs to lethal levels and rely on first responders to use Narcan to save them? This puts a heavy burden on emergency services, as well as a high cost for taxpayers. Let people buy it themselves and administer it? Already happens in many areas. But, still, they call when someone doesn't respond to Narcan. Or, they OD again because their toxicity levels are so high that the amount of Narcan said individual requires is more than they have on hand.
I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of them.

I know years back, I was told there were a lot of people smoking dried banana peels. But I hear these epidemics usually run in cycles, and if we can avoid it I would rather not have another 40 year crackdown on something that might burn itself out within a couple of years.

https://theoutline.com/post/1964/narcan-parties-heroin-overdoses

What about the millions of people suffering mental and emotional issues that have turned to drugs, or their brains are now so damaged from drug use? What about those who attempt suicide by taking drugs?
Heeere we go...

Worst head case I ever met was a dude who was permanently gone from huffing paint. Had a steady supply from Ace Hardware. And suicide??? Listen to what a wise man in another thread said about that...
Suicide shouldn't be counted in any numbers when it comes to deaths, aside from its own. While there may very well be mental health issues triggering it. There may very well be things medical decisions, or simply they just want to end their life.

as cold as it may sound, I believe that a person has the sole decision to take their own life.
hahaha
spit that koolaid out boy, it's makin you stupid
 
I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of them.

I know years back, I was told there were a lot of people smoking dried banana peels. But I hear these epidemics usually run in cycles, and if we can avoid it I would rather not have another 40 year crackdown on something that might burn itself out within a couple of years.

https://theoutline.com/post/1964/narcan-parties-heroin-overdoses

I knew you'd search, and post that article because you think it debunks it. But, they are in fact real and people are pushing themselves to a very dangerous and toxic level of high.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/na...erdosing-to-be-brought-back-to-life/580740050

Enough so that cities have proposed legislation to limit the number of incidents a repeat offender will be assisted:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...oblem-let-addicts-die/?utm_term=.cb0fead5a8c7

There are a few cities which this is now a reality.


Worst head case I ever met was a dude who was permanently gone from huffing paint. Had a steady supply from Ace Hardware.
Same argument can be said about prescription drugs, and the infamous model paint and glue laws that were passed. Let's not forget about the ones limiting the purchase of ephedrine to try and combat meth. Most of these laws are BS and not enforced by any means. So, why have them in the first place?
Just because you don't experience things doesn't mean they don't exist.

And suicide??? Listen to what a wise man in another thread said about that...

hahaha
spit that koolaid out boy, it's makin you stupid

I still hold to my convictions that if a person of sound mind willfully decides to take their life, it's their choice. However, I brought up the suicide comment because many have issues with it, particularly when it comes to mental health issues. Also, because there are a large number of suicide attempt calls to 911 which relate to the topic at hand.

Anyway, I'm done. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now.
 
I knew you'd search, and post that article because you think it debunks it. But, they are in fact real and people are pushing themselves to a very dangerous and toxic level of high.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/na...erdosing-to-be-brought-back-to-life/580740050

Enough so that cities have proposed legislation to limit the number of incidents a repeat offender will be assisted:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...oblem-let-addicts-die/?utm_term=.cb0fead5a8c7

There are a few cities which this is now a reality.
Evidence. Smacks of "Reefer Madness" to me. Link me to some hard evidence. I am not ruling it out, but I have serious doubts.

Now with the issue of people repeatedly od'ing, I got no problem at all with a few Darwin Awards being handed out by municipalities that say "we ain't carrying Narcan anymore". But until I see some hardcore evidence of "Narcan parties", I am going to assume it's another "they dumped the babies out of the incubators" move. Heard too much bullshit over the years by people who profit from the drug war.

Do you have firsthand experience with this? Heroin junkies are calling bullshit on it; I did have a heroin addict tell me about some prescription for heroin withdrawals, was supposed to be for getting off heroin, but he just used it to get by when he didn't have any. But intentional od for kicks? I'm going to leave that for the credulous for the time being.
Same argument can be said about prescription drugs, and the infamous model paint and glue laws that were passed. Let's not forget about the ones limiting the purchase of ephedrine to try and combat meth. Most of these laws are BS and not enforced by any means. So, why have them in the first place?
Just because you don't experience things doesn't mean they don't exist.
No, the same argument does not apply. For one thing, there has been enforcement with the prescription drugs (at least at the street level, maybe not at the corporate).

Now with the paint and glue, no I never saw any widespread aggressive asset-seizing enforcement of that like I did with illicit drugs. It was always right there for sale on the shelf. But with the drug laws that were enforced, it doesn't appear to have made a dent in the availability of them.
I still hold to my convictions that if a person of sound mind willfully decides to take their life, it's their choice. However, I brought up the suicide comment because many have issues with it, particularly when it comes to mental health issues. Also, because there are a large number of suicide attempt calls to 911 which relate to the topic at hand.
That is hypocritical. If you will use it to prop up liberty for your precious inanimate objects, then turn right around and discard it to justify depriving others of their life and/or liberty, it is not much of a conviction.
Anyway, I'm done. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now.
No I am not. I am arguing because a lot of that stuff on that LEAP graphic I have had to live through. I am arguing because I hear you supporting what I view as continued insanity that could get a whole lot worse.
http://globalnation.inquirer.net/140782/gains-from-thailands-bloody-war-on-drugs-proved-fleeting
 
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http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/d...didnt-defend-philando-castile/article/2631154


Marijuana Boce, marijuana.

Let me tell you about my bro. He did a year (in the great state of Alabama no less) locked up for marijuana possession, no gun involved. Fun stories, that guy; told me about some guy that was getting gangfucked, and how the room smelled so bad of shit he wanted to puke. So go tell your buddy with ms it could be worse, he could be getting fucked up the ass courtesy of this tyrannical government. And not for a gun, mind you; just for possession. Oh you poor 2nd amendment martyrs!!!

This is a real bone of contention with me. People I used to shoot with, people that I worked with, way back when...I disagreed with them when this goddamned war on drugs started heating up; but all those good little patriots were watching the train conductor anti-marijuana ads right along with me, and they were eager for government to protect us.

So like your little poster-girl Loesch says, it's illegal; let your bro be a good little bootlicker and obey the goddam law if he wants a fucking gun.

Locked up for possession?

How much was he holding?

Chicago prisons are overwhelmingly overcrowded with mj offenders and people with mental health issues. Oh, btw, that is just one of the current lame excuses why gun crimes aren't being prosecuted more harshly. Go figure that $$ one out.

BTW, I don't even know who Loesh is, so you can fuck off with your ignorant assumptions.

Opioids are a different story with staggering overdose death counts on a daily basis.
 
Locked up for possession?

How much was he holding?
He said a little over an ounce. Years ago, hopefully they have lightened up some now.
Chicago prisons are overwhelmingly overcrowded with mj offenders and people with mental health issues. Oh, btw, that is just one of the current lame excuses why gun crimes aren't being prosecuted more harshly. Go figure that $$ one out.
I don't know about Chicago, but areas I have been it hasn't just meant people with mental issues in jail. Lot of people getting sent into an already strained mental health system on account of drug offenses too. Stupid beyond belief. An example: sitting in a mental health group voluntarily, and right next to you are a couple of guys who got no interest in help, they are in there because a judge told them to be, and all they want to do is jabber about their plans to get high later.

Also, for violent/property crimes, jail is right where want the mentally ill. That is another pathetic side to this whole thing, too many people realize they have "mental health issues" after they got the cuffs on.
BTW, I don't even know who Loesh is, so you can fuck off with your ignorant assumptions.
Apologies. I guess I assumed you were a NRA supporter.



I've really had a bug up my ass for 2nd amendment supporters since 2012, pretty much due to the NRA (or at least that was the straw that broke the camels back). I guess sometimes I lash out when I shouldn't.
Opioids are a different story with staggering overdose death counts on a daily basis.
It's a mess. This article rings true based on what I have seen.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...e-opioid-epidemic_us_59d4f8c7e4b0da85e7f5ed58

My experience with junkies is, they will quickly exhaust any sympathy you might have for them. But it is not some dubious 'Narcan parties' that caused the problem.
 
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