I realize that no matter how many models tell you that freeloading hurts them and their business, you will probably find a reason to justify it.
Correct, because no matter how many times you call an elephant a cat, it doesn't make it true. It also doesn't matter how much logic I use to rebut your statements. You will never see the rationality behind it, just as you tagged me as. It is a two-way street, as you mentioned before.
In one breath you say that models are expected to perform for free (except for the generosity of others), and the next you are saying that they accept the risk of not being paid and are choosing to be offended.
And that construction workers are in a risky, dangerous business, and yet you seem to have no issue with me saying that. You only take issue with the realistic risks being pointed out about what affects you.
you make it sound like the model's fault for expecting to be paid for her job once in a while.
Never said that. I said that a model should not expect EVERY person to pay since - again - the site is advertised as a free service. You conveniently left out the key factor of my statement: quantity. You're using neutered versions of everything I say to purposely misrepresent and put words in my mouth.
But in your example... We models are the restaurant. MFC may own the building we rent it in, but we are the restaurants themselves. We make the food. We each have a different theme. We set the tables. We spend our time creating a stunning feast for patrons to enjoy. We show up every single day and open the doors. So yes, the restaurant does get frustrated when customers come in night after night after night, drinking and eating our food, and telling us to our faces that if we didn't want people to eat our food for free, we shouldn't be offering it.
Again, conveniently, not even remotely what I said. It is the neutered, altered, half-truth of what I said. See, what YOU are saying is "We serve the food and nobody pays." What
*I* said was "You serve the food and one person willingly pays for it all." You keep conveniently leaving out that quantity part. Whether you get $20 from one person or $5 from four people, you're still getting the same amount, yet you act like you get more from the latter.
I am sure as heck allowed to be frustrated when dozens of people come to my doors every day for YEARS and refuse to pay, and even worse - just wait around for someone else to pay for them.
Except that 1) The restaurant is not advertising free food. It is advertising food for money. Ergo, if someone refuses to pay, then it is the customer's own fault. 2) In the restaurant, you have a right to refuse service. Just like how on MFC you have the right to not strip, especially if you are not tipped. In the restaurant example, those "freeloaders" aren't demanding food. They aren't even being rude to other customers. They're just waiting for someone to offer to buy them food. You still get your money for the service, it just isn't from that waiting person. They waited patiently, not demanding anything and not being rude. They did not expect service because they did not pay for it. However, you act like them just simply standing in the parking lot is the exact same thing as them screaming "SERVE ME FOOD!!!!"
The logic of your last post is the absolute definition of freeloading justification, and it truly makes me sad to see. I guess I have too much respect and empathy towards the models whose company I enjoy, who work so hard to plan events, who spend money in order to create a fun time for everyone... I want to see them succeed. I want to make them smile. I want them to recognize how much I appreciate them and their work and their presence. If someone does their job well, they deserve to be paid for it. I want them to be paid for it. I appreciate their shows, their conversation, their friendship, their persons - that I don't want them to have to quit their job.
This is basically the same as if Lucky Charms cereal manufacturers saying "We don't stock the shelves with cereal for you to just walk by and NOT buy it! If you go to the store and walk by our cereal, you MUST buy it! Do you have any idea how hard it is to make, fill, and ship literally billions of boxes of cereal all over MULTIPLE countries?! That's a lot of work, and we DESERVE to have your money!!" You're just trying to guilt people into spending money on you.
If I want to eat a restaurant, I don't go to one every single day in hopes of riding off of the coattails of someone else's generosity. That is disrespectful and practically the definition of entitlement.
No, you don't do that, but you could. It isn't illegal to wait. The restaurant is under no obligation to serve you, but you are allowed to wait if you want as long as you are not a nuisance.
Feeling that you deserve to go to a restaurant and eat when you don't have any money, and just wait and wait and wait for someone to be generous. That's absolutely ludicrous.
Just like people who play free-to-play games for free do not pay because other people play? Go look up a game called Adventurequest Worlds. Check out how the staff interacts with the players, both members and non-members. They love all their players. They give perks to the members, understandably, but never once make non-members out to be immoral. They openly accept all new players, whether they pay or not. They routinely reassure people that "This game remains free-to-play for everyone because of the amazing generosity members that support this game!" They are not shaming non-members, just praising members that keep the game up for non-members to play, and encouraging non-members to enjoy the benefits of members helping to keep the game up. You don't HAVE to hate "freeloaders". You just choose to.
If I cannot afford to eat a restaurant, I don't go. It's that simple. I have too much respect for the cooks, the waiters, and my fellow patrons to take advantage of them like that.
Does that also mean when someone says "I will take you out to eat. Don't worry about the bill. I'll pay for the whole meal." that you turn the offer down EVERY time because you personally consider it rude to the workers to not spend your own money?
If you refuse to ever support a model, no matter how many times you visit, no matter how many smiles she has given you, then you don't deserve her amazingness.
This makes it sound like you have no clue how strip clubs work. None of the visitors are ever required to tip. Ever. Why are YOU any different just because you're behind a screen?
I think that makes me more upset. If someone does not think I am worth tipping, so be it! There are other rooms! But to see someone wait for a member to pay their way and take advantage of a member who just wants to show their support and appreciation for me... Freeloading off of their generosity... That upsets me worse than not being tipped. And I know many other models feel the same about their regulars.
This entire paragraph just says "I'm entitled, but others aren't, because that is most convenient for me." Go work in an actual strip club and start complaining to the visitors like this and see how that works out for you.
Yes, it sucks that you are visiting models who you feel treat members like scum. I hope you don't feel this way about all cam girls.
Oh, not at all. I've met some exceedingly-friendly models. Not all models are power-hungry money-grubbers. Some are amazingly sweet. A few models I visit just to chat with. Nothing sexual or anything. They don't expect tips. One even specifically said "Would you mind staying a bit longer? I know it is really late for you, but you're fun and it's a slow day." No money involved. Just wanted company. Stayed up another hour just to keep her company.
If you feel that a model is behaving in a way that will cause her to lose viewers and cost her money, okay. Now you know that she isn't your cup of tea, and you can move on to a different model. As we've mentioned on here recently, there are models on MFC who can pretty much do/say whatever the hell they want (as despicable as me and you may think they are), and they will still have members sticking around (and tipping) for the show. Lol. Those models probably aren't gonna change their ways...especially if they're making money doing whatever it is they're doing.
I'm not concerned with changing the models themselves. They won't change, so trying would be pointless, and it doesn't really bother me anyway. What bothers me is giving these people too much control. Think about it this way. If you're working at a store and your boss smacks you, the boss would normally get in trouble, right? On MFC, however, the boss would smack you, you say "What the hell? You can't do that!" and the boss replies "Of course I can. I'm the boss." No rules in place to prevent that behavior. Just deal with it or quit, and quitting won't stop the boss from doing that to other workers. That is why workplace environment have rules to protect people from that kind of thing. MFC does not. Someone getting away with abusing their power just because "They are the boss" doesn't bother you at all?
Since it's MyFREECams, the good thing for you members is that you guys have the option to visit as many models as you want (since there is no limit to how long you get to sit/watch in a model's public chat) 'til you find one you're happy with.
This is exactly one of the issues I'm referring to. You SAY users can visit and hang around and room we want for as long as we want, but then others models say "...No, they can stay, but they have to tip or gtfo." So you make it sound like users have the freedom to go to another model and hang there freely, but other models would punish that exact behavior. Users are NOT free. That's the problem. Models like to make it sound like we are, but when we exercise that, we get faulted for it.
No, more like "hey, you can use our service for free!
"
If you thought the name meant "You can use our service for free" (which it does), then why are you up in arms saying that a model's services AREN'T free? Which one is it, free service or not?
One of the most important values MFC holds itself to is allowing models to run their rooms as they see fit, from a social and personal standpoint. The model holds the power in her space. MFC is not a boss or an employer, they are a platform for independent contractors.
If you do not like this, MFC is probably not the right camsite for you.
As someone who has only banned one silent freeloader in the last year that I can think of, and that took 3+ years of being there every single day from the time I log on til the time I log off... I see your point, but I also will defend a models right to ban anyone who is making her feel uncomfortable in her work space for whatever reason.
She is not entitled to your money and you are not entitled to her boobs. Even though I'm not a big perma banner, I would leave MFC for another site immediately if they started to micro manage how and who I could ban.
Again, the view of a model, not a user. Obviously YOU would say "I like having power." ....Duh. Who wouldn't? If it isn't negatively affecting you, why would you care? My stance is essentially "Take from the rich, give to the poor." Obviously the rich in that situation aren't going to like the proposition. Switch the roles and you'd think very differently. You're content because you have the control, but give no consideration for those who are the victims of that control. If you were the one without control, you'd be a whole lot more outspoken about getting more control. "I would leave MFC for another site immediately if they started to micro manage how and who I could ban." That's the proof. You'd be upset if control was taken away from you to give someone else more control, just like users are upset when THEIR control is taken away in order to favor you.
There is a camsite (can't think of the name maybe flirt4free??) where you are not allowed to ban as much as you like and are encouraged to basically suck it up and try to turn all users into paying customers and banning is considered only if you have exhausted all interactions with them and your score for the site goes down with banning someone as a final resort.
I'm sure the company thinks this is a good practice but if it was, more people would be working there/members would be using that site. (among other reasons it's a crappy site in general from most experiences I've heard but I was just using it as an example of a site that has less banning lol)
There is a reason myfreecams is the top choice for models to use. Whether a model is ban-happy, snobby, friendly, doesn't mind freeloaders or hates them--there is that freedom.
I don't feel like banning users kills business since if it is someone who is being detrimental to the room even IF they're tipping that kind of mood can piss a model off or make working unpleasant. Whether a user thinks they were being nice/normal/friendly and what not.
Look at the section above this. This is LITERALLY "Models gravitate to the place they have the most power." ....Duh? That doesn't mean it is a better-managed site, it just means it has more models. Why wouldn't it? Models get all the power, so why wouldn't they all congregate there? That isn't a testament to site quality, it is a testament to pandering to the models, which is exactly the issue. Of course, not an issue to the models, hence why only models are the ones taking an issue with what I say.
