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MFC Traffic, Google Updates, Ads

Discussion in 'General Cam Chat' started by Yavin4MFC, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Lelo1

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    618
    I see models as content creators. And patrons as users.
    Because of this, I see many 'users' to be ready for HD.

    CB has up to 4k. Sense the change, most content creators are streaming at least 576p. Which seems to be higher then MFC max resolution. But if you look at the top 100, they're all at 1080. Some of them are 4k.

    I don't think MFC needs every content creator at 1080. They just need the big content creators to be able to stream at 1080. They need to be able to compete in video quality.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. AmberCutie

    AmberCutie Administrator
    Staff Member Cam Model

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    MFC had to implement the "auto detect" feature for models to figure out what bandwidth and resolution to run at because just having the top HD option was causing problems for other models. Many girls I spoke directly to about the MWB option could not run at the highest one offered.

    I've been one of the first/only models admins have asked to help test these new features before they are pushed live, so I've seen some of the tinkering they've had to do to allow the biggest base of models to thrive.

    I specifically said users in my sentence meant models. :)
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 3
  3. Guy

    Guy

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    What if MFC made it mandatory for models to use equipment that supported HD and 4K resolution?
     
  4. AmberCutie

    AmberCutie Administrator
    Staff Member Cam Model

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    They'd lose a lot of models.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. AmberCutie

    AmberCutie Administrator
    Staff Member Cam Model

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    I feel like I'm talking in circles. lol

    Anyway, this thread needs not turn into yet another one about HD on MFC.
     
  6. Striker44

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2017
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    125
    Thanks for the info Amber.

    I agree, I'd hate this thread to go off in a tangent. HD/Not HD is possibly 1 part of the traffic problems MFC is experiencing but there are other factors.

    The core issue is that traffic and tips seem down. It appears to be hurting the top models and I think is devastating to the lower ranked models. This is the true issue in my opinion.
     
  7. Yavin4MFC

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
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    217
    I wonder if 4K would be an incentive to become a Paid Member or Recurring Paid Member if you lose the ability if you don't buy tokens every 30 days...
     
  8. Wolf_3_5_9

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    I only have a member account on MFC right now because it’s the one I started with when I discovered cam sites. I apologize for adding to the HD angle but I don’t think it should be dismissed. If I find a model on mfc I like and I can tell she is broadcasting on other sites simultaneously, I will search her name on other sites and watch there in a separate window while keeping my chat and tipping on mfc. For me, the viewer, it makes a big difference to have a better picture.

    This isn’t a favorable situation for mfc. I’ve already dipped my toe in another site instead of sticking to mfc. I’m going to remain a customer with mfc for now, but just because I’m invested there. But if I were a new customer to camming and I were “shopping” for the site to plunk down my first dollars, it’s a hard sell to choose a low-res site over one with better image fidelity. Especially since mfc’s main competitive advantage of ‘community’ is not something that can be realized or appreciated as quickly as comparing a 600p stream vs 1080/4K.

    I can’t say whether it plays a small or large part for losing potential traffic to its competitors, but it does play some part. Amber, I believe you when you say that a lot of models wouldn’t be able to support it right now. But surely it must be on their roadmap to stay competitive - maybe not this year or next, but at some point. I understand the need to protect the models’ ability to stream, but it must be balanced with losing potential customers/traffic over it.

    In the end, mfc still has the community, as I said. And its problem is a technology problem. Which is good because it’s much easier to fix a technology problem than for other sites to build a community. So I foresee that when they get this right, they can get back on top of the industry again pretty easily.
     
  9. Goblin

    Joined:
    Tuesday
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    5
    I worked doing SEO for about 5 years, I stopped about four years ago so I'm wellll out of the loop now, so not really too qualified to comment but still..

    I haven't looked at other threads so sorry if this has been said already

    If MFC used to rank highly for a lot of keywords and don't now it's because of one of these three things

    • Google released an update to their algorithm and Myfreecams did not fair well
    • Google have given Myfreecams a manual penalty for something
    • Myfreecams made some kind of change to their website Google did not like
    The most worrying of the three would be the first one, the other two would likely be much easier to fix

    When did MFC switch to https? that could be it

    When did MFC change from avatars being standard and switching to live previews? could be that

    Whatever the problem is, I hope Leo has hired someone like Marie Haynes (a very well respected SEO penalty expert) to look into.
     
  10. JerryBoBerry

    V.I.P. Member

    Joined:
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    Just to expand a bit on that. It's not just equipment, it's also internet speed. The truth is there's millions of Americans who don't have high speed internet. They can't broadcast at higher def's than currently on MFC anyway.


    https://theweek.com/speedreads/706172/rural-america-serious-internet-problem

    "Approximately 39 percent of the rural population in the country — about 23 million people — don't have "fast" internet, which is defined as having the speed to support "email, web surfing, video streaming, and graphics for more than one device at once."
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 3
  11. caireen

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
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    would they be providing it?? who is paying for that?
     
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  12. AmberCutie

    AmberCutie Administrator
    Staff Member Cam Model

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    thank you. so many people just assume that every model on MFC could just adapt and profit off of MFC promoting higher HD streams. But the fact is, a HUGE percentage would feel like they were at a disadvantage because only the top 2-3% can afford the higher end PCs and top tier ISP connection. But I admire MFC for considering the rest of their user... ahem sorry.. MODEL population and knowing that a large amount of them would not be able to utilize the higher HD option.

    Maybe other sites that are newer to the industry STARTED that way, so the precedent was set at inception. But MFC has been around for a decade and a half, and has a LOT of models who have been around since then and just don't have the hardware or investment money to upgrade their Internet to keep up if they raised their standards.

    I can wholeheartedly understand why MFC is prioritizing other new member/model features above this right now. They have other features and aspects to their community that make them more attractive to members than other sites do.
     
    #42 AmberCutie, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:32 PM
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018 at 9:34 AM
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Lelo1

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
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    Interesting, I think OBS has a similar feature to determine optimal bandwidth and resolution settings.

    I guess it makes sense that they need to make setting up streaming super easy, lower the barrier for entry. And also reduce the need for technical support. I guess when ever they choose to increase resolution, they'll probable scale the feature up.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. dark_mermaid

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    303
    None of my regulars would take me private on mfc, when they can get the same show on chaturbate in a higher resolution. Makes total sense to me.

    They also said, that member support on myfreecams is horrible. I trust them, when they say it. If they ever had to complain about private shows for example (girl not being truthful about what she will do), it's on myfreecams and support doesn't help in contrast to other sites. I have nothing bad to say about mfc model support but member support could be a factor too.

    None of this is representative of course.
     
  15. Yavin4MFC

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
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    217
    This is getting off topic, but I also will typically choose a model's best streaming option for privates, whether that's on MFC, Skype, Snapchat, whatever.
     
  16. Guest12345

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    "HD Streams" are a nice-to-have feature, but it's not yet a core feature that is widely demanded by visitors where they would auto-reject a site for not having it.

    E.g., just to use a widely known name, if a random user wanted to watch CrazyM_ (or insert-your-favorite-known-model) in a public show, do you think they would stop and not visit MFC because the stream isn't in HD? It's not a deal breaker ... the actual model is still the #1 driver of interest ...

    MFC & other cam sites are a two-sided market like eBay, AirBNB, Uber, etc. There's a buyer (visitors w/ tokens) and a seller (models providing content) with a platform intermediary (MFC) . Working on HD Streams would be like Uber focusing on drivers only using upper tier luxury cars. The reality is, this is how Uber started as an on demand black-car-service for people, but they only reached hockey stick growth once the app was accessible to everyone market wise and price wise, not because drivers were picking people up in Benzs or BMWs.

    For the health of the site, it's needs to drive growth of BOTH sides of the market to achieve escape velocity growth like the aforementioned sites.

    Without knowing the internal MFC metrics, there's a general feeling there's stagnation on both ends of the market.

    -----

    On the seller side, I'd venture to guess it's a result of there being a plethora of other options to distribute this type of content. Before, it was mainly just cam sites and clip sites.

    Nowadays you can:

    - Get Insta/Snap famous and quietly trade content w/ cash apps ...
    - Be big on Twitter (seemingly traditional adult stars) and have side income with things like onlyfans ...
    - Post on Reddit a little, then create your own sub with teaser pics, then sell more explicit content through Patreon subscriptions ...

    ... and I'm sure there are a lot more new avenues out there. It would probably be best for MFC to look into these emerging buying behaviors users are comfortable with (seemingly subscription based models) and look into implementing it (w/o cannibalizing the current successful system) faster than they did with the Manyvids / MFC Share catchup. (There was clearly a problem to be solved that MFC didn't cater to here, but definitely could've been ahead of the curve on ...)

    -----

    On the buyer side, it's no different than acquiring new users to any site ... but I'm not sure referral traffic is the silver bullet solution. It's just as shotgun of an approach as google/fb/twitter ads and doesn't really bring users with direct intent on visiting MFC for a reason.

    One random thing I've noticed is more MFC based content on other adult sites like Pornhub / Beeg / etc. Granted, like 99% of it is pirated, but there's also some verified Pornhub accounts by MFC models and some Beeg content points back to MFC model's personal websites. These models are doing the legwork to leverage these platforms and get their fair share (no matter how small it might be at this time).

    These are huge (un-tapped) user funnels where if a viewer specifically clicks on the content and watches it, there is a clear intent they are into it. Why not create hooks back to MFC in these cases? For models who are comfortable with their content being widely distributed, they get their rev share from these sites and MFC gets a potential new source of users.

    It reminds me of the music industry and youtube and the eventual creation of vevo. It's like the content is gonna get pirated onto this platform anyways ... why not at least pressure the platform to kick back the proper rev share and bring awareness to the originating site?
     
  17. dark_mermaid

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
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    Hate me for it but the popular mfc models that have been around for long and only cam on mfc will indeed not profit and might not want any change at all. It's relevant for newer models and multi cammers who might see more traffic on other camsites compared to mfc and of course the users.

    I'm always wondering in what ways camsites even do their own research? I've never heard of surveys among members done by camsites, feedback forms, whatever. This would actually be the first thing I'd do.
     
  18. Wolf_3_5_9

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    I feel this is a bit of a flawed analogy. The target demographic for growing traffic will come from people interested in cam sites in general, not people who already know the name of a model they wish to view. To extend your Uber analogy, they need to find more people who are interested in ride-sharing in general and having them sign up with Uber instead of Lyft. These people aren't looking for a specific car driver, just a service to get a ride. And when looking around at different services, all Uber cars are 2000 Camrys whereas Lyft has some 2000 Camrys but also quite a few 2017 BMWs for the same price. Ignoring other variables, why would a new customer looking for a ride share create an Uber account over a Lyft one?
     
  19. cammingcouple

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Messages:
    74
    Seems like it could be a bit of a moot point since without fast internet, you're probably not going to be able to reliably stream in standard definition either. Upload speeds are often a fraction of download speeds. So if you can't watch more than one video stream at a time (following their fast internet definition), it's unlikely you'll be able to stream a video anywhere near MFC's max resolution, if at all. The article links to a wall-street journal article that uses someone with a satellite internet connection as an example. In that example, she mentions it's too slow to upload photos. If you can't even upload photos, you can forget about trying to cam from that connection at any resolution.
     
  20. cammingcouple

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
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    I stream on chaturbate at 1080p with equipment that cost $200 ($150 for the laptop, $45 for a logitech c920). My internet connection costs me $45/month (bottom tier, not top tier). You only need 3 Mbps to stream at 720p on Chaturbate. Streamate only streams at around 2 Mbps for 720p. You don't need expensive equipment or anywhere near a top tier ISP connection for streaming at HD. If only the top 2-3% on MFC can afford that, then MFC's problems are way bigger than just HD.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. DJ_Pioneer

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
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    146
    I think she was talking about higher resolutions like 4k and perhaps 1440p and at those resolutions you want an upload speed that is higher than 10 Mbps. I think that 720p would be a good resolution to offer since it only requires double the bandwidth of the 800*600 that is the highest resolution today and it would help models who want to stream game play on MFC and on CamYou since the image doesn't have to be letter boxed. I don't think any higher resolution that that would be really required from a premium members point of view since we are most likely not going to run MFC in full screen anyway because we want to be able to see and participate in the chat and wouldn't be able to fully take advantage of a higher resolution. However I am of the opinion that a higher resolution is not going to solve MFC's traffic problem.
     
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  22. Guest12345

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
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    31
    I completely agree with everything you stated.

    That being said, this kind of alludes to my point of MFC should focus on traffic funnels vs. a feature which increases conversion.

    Like you said, only once a user is aware of camsites, they would then use various factors to judge which one to sign up for and at that decision fork, HD Streams would definitely play a factor and increase conversion.

    But, we all know there's a finite amount of time and resources for MFC development.

    So, in my mind (and I could totally be wrong) if I were looking at two projects as a MFC PM ...

    - Traffic Increase - Deploy more user funnels broadly across the web
    - Goal: Increase daily new user traffic from XX,000 -> XXX,000

    or

    - Stream Quality Increase - Improve current stream quality to meet modern standards
    - Goal: Increase conversion rate of current user traffic XX,000 by X%

    ... I would prioritize the former rather than the latter to make the overall pie bigger first and then focus on the latter to make the slice that we get bigger.
     
  23. cammingcouple

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
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    74
    It's not quite as simple as separating traffic from conversions. Couple of thoughts on that.

    1. Traffic is comprised of new and repeat traffic. A poor user experience will effect repeat traffic.
    2. Affiliate publishers push traffic to whatever offer makes the most money. A better conversion rate will mean more traffic. A poorly converting offer will not see as much traffic as a good one. If conversions suffer, so will traffic.
    3. When it comes to PPC, a better conversion rate means you can afford to out bid a competitor with a lower conversion rate while maintaining the same ROI. You'll appear more often and higher up than your competitor if you can afford to outbid them. That translates to more traffic.

    Of course all that would explain a steady decline, not the sudden 50% drop off claimed. My question is, how has google's update effected other sites? If MFC got hammered that hard, seems like they had too many eggs in one basket as far as where their traffic was coming from.
     
  24. Lelo1

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
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    For me 1080 was the tipping point.
    Next monitor is going to be 4k.
     
  25. fandango

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2015
    Messages:
    699
    I think the traffic and image quality issue go together hand in hand. If a new customer is searching for a camsite and doesn't know any of the models then something like image quality and site interface is going to be a very big deal,it's the first thing they see and it can determine whether someone stays on MFC or goes to CB. It's no good having millions of new visitors if the interface and stream quality is so poor relative to the competition that few of them stay. I actually think the 4:3 aspect ratio actually makes a bigger difference than the resolution. When you go full screen and have huge black bars at the side it looks terrible. No one has had a square screen for 10-15 years now.

    The other changes MFC have been making recently are great for existing customers and models but are they going to attract any new customers? I'm not so sure.

    Sorry Amber for another post about video feeds but when so many of the customers of the site are identifying an issue as a key factor for them they can't all be wrong.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. starcraft

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
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    MFC should invest more into advertisement- you dont need to browse long to realise that their competetors have just much more ads. also recent google changes apperently hit traffic. their marketing is given to models through social media. Most of social media outlets taking stricter tools to ban out spam, which is most of porn advertisement is, which led to so many models just simply being invisible in social media( since twitter is one of rare yet popular platforms you can use to advertise yourself). MFC ofcourse didnt take that into consideration. pirate sites( which wouldnt exist if mfc allow models to ban guests, at least during show, so pirates would loose insentive to record dressed girls). switch from icons to video previews absolutely hit individual unique visitors and room counts.
     
  27. starcraft

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
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    2
    this could be. MFC didnt allow nudity on avatars. now the manual is girls masturbating themselves. this could be something.
     
    #57 starcraft, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:25 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2018 at 9:53 AM
  28. DJ_Pioneer

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
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    146
    As a PC hardware enthusiast I think it is going to take a few years before we see any widespread adoption rate of 4K monitors. We have just started to see 1440P monitors come out with a high refresh rate at a reasonable price point and they can be powered reliably by a mid-tier graphics card. I believe that it will take another two or three years before we start to see 4K being more widely adopted in both desktop and laptop monitors.

    While I agree that there things that MFC could do to make it easier for the models to convert guests and basics into premium members is not MFC's job, that is up to the models. I don't really know what you mean by PPC from what I learned in economics it meant Production Probability Curve and you talk about outbidding competition and maintaining ROI (return on investment?), what you have to realize is that MFC is a provider of entertainment and therefore things work different from a company that manufactures things or sells services. What MFC does is to a platform for models to work on and their job is to see to it that it works and promote it so people can find it. Aside from seeing to it that the site is working properly there is very little that MFC can do to improve the user experience, that is mostly in the models hands. Sure MFC can increase the video quality and give us widescreen resolutions and update the site layout so it looks more modern, but MFC being a cam site that you go to for the social interaction makes those two details less important in the grand scheme of things.

    I don't think the way CrakRevenue promotes the site is the way to go about it because it doesn't show the strengths that MFC have over its competitors and what makes the experience different. So the problem with those ads is not that the user experience is going to be bad when they come to the site it is not going to be what they were expecting or looking for. On top of that people have become so conditioned into not clicking popup ads anyway that they are becoming less and less effective. So I would argue that the traffic problem is more related to how the website gets promoted and that it doesn't have to do with conversion, because how can a model convert a guest into a basic and a basic into a premium if there is no one in the room?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. cammingcouple

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
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    PPC = Pay Per Click

    Example, the ads at the top of Google search results are PPC ads. Advertisers bid against each other on keywords to appear there.
     
  30. DJ_Pioneer

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
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    Yeah well i don't think Google allows pornography in their advertising policy anyway.
     

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