Platforms that do not offer chargeback protection

[luxgray]

Just want to compile a list of platforms that do not offer chargeback protection. Onlyfans (notoriously). Paypal. Any others? Cashapp? Any streaming sites, clip sites, other fan sites?

 

[yummybrownfox]

PayPal is a no-no anyway for sex workers to use to receive payments. And Cash App isn’t recommended for that either. So I definitely don’t want to encourage other models to use them for cam shows.

ImLive is a cam site that was (and maybe still is?) notorious for chargebacks. They had a host forum (They say “chat hosts” instead of “models”), and every pay period hosts were talking about how this pay period they had X hundred dollars in chargebacks. Or that they “only” had $20 in chargebacks this pay period.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

Important to distinguish between an ADULT platform that doesn't offer chargeback protection and a direct money transfer service.

ALL direct money transfer services (Paypal, cashapp, googlewallet, zelle, venmo) are NOT SW friendly. This means that in their TOS it expressly forbids using them to sell adult services of any kind.
So, ANY transaction you undertake with them will always carry not only the risk of a chargeback but also the risk that your account will be completely shut down and they make take all the funds you have in there. They also carry significant privacy risks as they are not operating with your privacy in mind.

Best practice for these: if you must use them, use them only with trusted clients. Age verify your clients. Make sure NO notes are included in any transaction.
I recently spoke at length with a banking employee (was with chase, now with a larger organization) who is a loss prevention analyst. He told me a great deal about the flagging systems they use.
Large transactions (several thousands) will actually draw less scrutiny for adult services than many small ones, so these can be a good option for trusted whale tippers.
Use a different email for each app. NEVER post your username, QR code etc publically online OR the email address associated with the account.
Use a completely different email for your personal stuff, and another email again for all your adult work. Make sure there's nothing suggestive or goggle-able in the username or emails you pick.
Move all money IMMEDIATELY to a safe bank account.

Oh and if you're engaging in criminalized forms of sex work have completely separate accounts, names, and everything for that work than you do for your legal sex work.

Adult platforms that offer no chargeback protection:

Onlyfans
Clips4Sale
JustForFans
ImLive
Throne


Sites that offer partial or 'sometimes' chargeback protection
MFC (they say its total but it is NOT)
Fansly
Iwantclips (up to $5000 a month)
Stripchat (says 'most cases')
Wishtender (Only for fraud chargebacks, not for dissatisfaction or 'i dont recognize this charge' chargebacks)
*Note wishtender is operating via Stripe which is not adult friendly. This is why they are so careful about wording on everything being a 'gift' no transactions. Stripe has shut down various users accounts, so be careful with wishtender


I've never had a chargeback and they say they offer protection on:
Niteflirt
Manyvids
APClips
Streamate




The FSC recently released a report on financial discrimination which might be interesting to read for this kind of stuff. https://www.freespeechcoalition.com/banks
below is a screenshot from the report - which can help inform which platforms you might want to use. It's a solid argument to avoid Paypal at all costs.

 

[Lilly_____]

*Note wishtender is operating via Stripe which is not adult friendly. This is why they are so careful about wording on everything being a 'gift' no transactions. Stripe has shut down various users accounts, so be careful with wishtender

Just to add that Throne does everything through stripe as well so I suppose the same applies

 

[luxgray]

Important to distinguish between an ADULT platform that doesn't offer chargeback protection and a direct money transfer service.

ALL direct money transfer services (Paypal, cashapp, googlewallet, zelle, venmo) are NOT SW friendly. This means that in their TOS it expressly forbids using them to sell adult services of any kind.
So, ANY transaction you undertake with them will always carry not only the risk of a chargeback but also the risk that your account will be completely shut down and they make take all the funds you have in there. They also carry significant privacy risks as they are not operating with your privacy in mind.

Best practice for these: if you must use them, use them only with trusted clients. Age verify your clients. Make sure NO notes are included in any transaction.
I recently spoke at length with a banking employee (was with chase, now with a larger organization) who is a loss prevention analyst. He told me a great deal about the flagging systems they use.
Large transactions (several thousands) will actually draw less scrutiny for adult services than many small ones, so these can be a good option for trusted whale tippers.
Use a different email for each app. NEVER post your username, QR code etc publically online OR the email address associated with the account.
Use a completely different email for your personal stuff, and another email again for all your adult work. Make sure there's nothing suggestive or goggle-able in the username or emails you pick.
Move all money IMMEDIATELY to a safe bank account.

Oh and if you're engaging in criminalized forms of sex work have completely separate accounts, names, and everything for that work than you do for your legal sex work.

Adult platforms that offer no chargeback protection:

Onlyfans
Clips4Sale
JustForFans
ImLive
Throne


Sites that offer partial or 'sometimes' chargeback protection
MFC (they say its total but it is NOT)
Fansly
Iwantclips (up to $5000 a month)
Stripchat (says 'most cases')
Wishtender (Only for fraud chargebacks, not for dissatisfaction or 'i dont recognize this charge' chargebacks)
*Note wishtender is operating via Stripe which is not adult friendly. This is why they are so careful about wording on everything being a 'gift' no transactions. Stripe has shut down various users accounts, so be careful with wishtender


I've never had a chargeback and they say they offer protection on:
Niteflirt
Manyvids
APClips
Streamate




The FSC recently released a report on financial discrimination which might be interesting to read for this kind of stuff. https://www.freespeechcoalition.com/banks
below is a screenshot from the report - which can help inform which platforms you might want to use. It's a solid argument to avoid Paypal at all costs.

View attachment 97598

Thank you!!!!!! Super helpful. A few q’s. How do you age verify clients? Also, if you move the money from Cashapp/Venmo right away, they can’t do a chargeback? I hear that they can’t do chargebacks with crypto as well, but that seems to have its own risks

 

[KingMarti]

Thank you!!!!!! Super helpful. A few q’s. How do you age verify clients? Also, if you move the money from Cashapp/Venmo right away, they can’t do a chargeback? I hear that they can’t do chargebacks with crypto as well, but that seems to have its own risks

Cashapp / venmo / paypal (I am assuming cashapp and venmo work in a similar way to pp) if it's linked to your bankaccount will recall the funds from your bank account, if it's not then they will put you into a negative balance.

Crypto transactions are 1 way by design, there's no middle man / company involved in the transaction ( thats the way it was originally designed anyway, now more and more people use 3rd party company's for their wallets which kind of takes the control of your money back away from you since they technically own the wallet and can issue transactions like refunds without your approval, that cant be done if you are the one that owns the keys to your wallet (easiest way to think of it is like a bank account vs cash, if your money is in a bank account the bank can send that money anywhere they want, if its cash you are the one that has control over it)

Going to point out that chargebacks and refunds are different things too (I see a lot of times people talk about chargebacks but it's a refund) A chargeback is when someone contacts their bank requesting the bank to recall a payment, a refund is done through the merchant. Chargebacks dont have to comply with a company's refund policy and the burden of proof to beat the chargeback is on the merchant. The most common reason for a chargeback is "Cardholder not present" which is basically the person saying someone used their card without them knowing even if it was them because it's well known that it's incredibly hard for a merchant to prove that it was them on the other side of the computer making the purchase. Sites can mitigate a lot of that by using a 2fa system on their payment system such as 3dsecure though which is when you get a text or an app notification to confirm the transaction, but a lot of sites in the adult industry dont seem to have that set up from what I have seen.

Going back to the cashapp/venmo/paypal part, people who have sent funds can contact those companies directly and get payments refunded (saying they sent the payment to the wrong account for example) and would only be able to do a chargeback if the funds originally were sent from a bank account and not a balance on that application. So if you have $200 on your cashapp account and you send it to someone you can ask cashapp to issue a refund but you cant ask your bank to do a chargeback as they were not involved in the transaction. However if your cashapp was linked to your debit card / credit card and the funds were taken from your card the bank will issue a chargeback to cashapp who would then either put your cashapp account in a negative balance or refund the payment you made on your cashapp account to cover the negative balance that the chargeback left on your cash app account. (It gets a bit messy to explain when you are talking about using banks with finance apps since they both technically do the same thing it just adds in another layer of mess)

Basically in the case of money going from a bank account through your cashapp account to another cashapp user it would be 2 separate transactions so the chargeback would only cover the first part of the transaction (the payment from them to your cashapp) and then cash app would be responsible for the money going from your cashapp to the other cashapp. (I cant use cashapp or venmo here, so again this is based on my understanding of how paypal and similar e-wallet apps work). On the surface it will look like 1 transaction but they basically just bundle together the loading the platform and sending the payment.


I am a fan of crypto, when used right it's much safer and cheaper than using a bank account. It became insanely easy for anyone to launch their own token though which made it a lot more confusing than it needed to be. Personally I would stick to USDC, USDT BTC and BCH for crypto payments with the usdc and usdt on the tron network since the fee's are way lower than the Ethereum network. USDT and USDC are both fixed to $1 (theres slight fluctuations sometimes like 99cents instead of $1 or $1.01). With the others though if you arnt holding for long periods of time the average price change on a daily basis now is like 0.01-1% or something so realistically in regards to price movement its not as much of a risk as it used to be when it would move 30-50% a day.

If you are in the USA the biggest risk with crypto is states blocking access to exchanges where you can sell your crypto...A vpn should be able to get around that though, from what I understand they have made the taxes for crypto an absolute nightmare too but my info on that is mainly from miners so it might not be applicable.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

Thank you!!!!!! Super helpful. A few q’s. How do you age verify clients? Also, if you move the money from Cashapp/Venmo right away, they can’t do a chargeback? I hear that they can’t do chargebacks with crypto as well, but that seems to have its own risks

Tons of info above me so I’ll answer the age verification question

I am not sure if this is legally OK it’s just what makes sense for me.
I will only take cashapp from clients who I verify have active customer accts on an adult site. So like I will get them to message me from their MV or MFC acct.

In theory you could also ask for ID but that’s easy to fake. If you use an adult site then I feel like it’s their problem lol.


And yes - moving money won’t save u if cashapp pulls funds from ur acct. the reason you do it is if they catch your account for TOS violations and shut it down they may keep the funds. So you don’t want a running balance in there.

 

[KingMarti]

In theory you could also ask for ID but that’s easy to fake.

Then you are also responsible for the safe keeping of that data too, imo not worth the headache

 

[mika_kedi]

APClips

I did have a chargeback on APClips a few years ago. Asshole who stole the content reposted it online without even changng the title and description I've written. AP wasn't willing to protect me from the chargeback or to help me with takedown, their response was basically "not our problem". Maybe something has changed since then.

 

[NoelleNoirxo]

Good info ! Thank you

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

I did have a chargeback on APClips a few years ago. Asshole who stole the content reposted it online without even changng the title and description I've written. AP wasn't willing to protect me from the chargeback or to help me with takedown, their response was basically "not our problem". Maybe something has changed since then.

Eek that’s really shitty .. considering they’re such a low traffic platform :/

 

[luxgray]

@Miss_Lollipop @KingMarti Super helpful! (As always)

 

[maria-cb]

Thanks for the info above! Very helpful