Pursuing a claim against a former model

[justjoinedtopost]

The dumb ones don't let it go and end up in the lounge (small joke).

All joking aside, that is probably the only way to salvage anything from this situation. Use it for an entertaining evening in the lounge. There are people out there who genuinely appreciate stories like this, and I am one of them (though I am sympathetic also). Nothing I love more than cracking a rib in a fit of schadenfreude.

 

[AmberCutie]

I was referring to taking legal action against the former model rather than trying to get a refund from the camsite.

Yeah, probably should change your plans then. Contact cam site about it or move on.

also:

The payments were for a combination of private time and content pre-orders.

Private time on the cam site? That's money spent and earned by the model. Going after that would just be an asshole move.

 

[NerdieBirdie]

Also for all this guy knows, she may have had to spontaneously disappear from the camming industry for good reasons. (Shit she doesn't need a good reason, but you know what I mean.)

Like maybe her safety was in jeopardy and she had to poof disappear. Maybe she wasn't planning on quitting either, so she had preorders lined up for new content, but then something happened. Maybe her partner got sick and she needs to take care of them. Maybe a parent died. Maybe she got doxed and felt unsafe.

While you feel scammed out of your money, for all you know her "retiring" could have been unplanned and unwelcomed by her as well.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Private time on the cam site? That's money spent and earned by the model. Going after that would just be an asshole move.

Purely speculation on my part, but I read it as private shows paid for in advance. Like paying for an hour's worth of Skype time a month in advance or something.

 

[AmberCutie]

Purely speculation on my part, but I read it as private shows paid for in advance. Like paying for an hour's worth of Skype time a month in advance or something.

Yeah I'm sure you're right... *sigh*... just another reason to actually, um, utilize the private function on the site.

 

[Relkinet]

Sorry if there's been some confusion, but I'm trying to avoid including any details that might accidentally lead to the model being identified.

I've known this model for about two years and we regularly interacted outside the camsite that she usually worked on. I've prepaid for time and content on several previous occasions and she's always followed through, if not right away. I wasn't even aware that she wasn't planning to honour this latest agreement until I tried to check in with her one day and found that she'd wiped her web presence, including the tools we'd been using to communicate. That said, I'd contacted her several times leading up to her disappearance, so it's unlikely that she simply forgot.

I'm disappointed that she decided to quit camming, but I'm not upset about it - I've been at this long enough to see several of my favourite models retire. What I am upset about is the fact that she agreed to something unusually expensive, then cut and run with the money. If she knew that she might not be able to keep her side of the deal this time, she shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place; we could have stuck to private shows on the camsite. If something changed and she was no longer willing or able to follow through, she should have let me know that she needed to back out so that we could have tried to work something else out instead.

It's not my intention to move directly to legal action. I'd like to contact her, explain the situation, and ask that she return the money if she's no longer willing to fulfill her side of the bargain. Failing that, I'm hoping that the threat of legal action will be enough to get her to negotiate. That said, I am preparing for the possibility of pursuing legal action because she'd have no reason to negotiate if I was relying on an empty threat. To that end, I'm not interested in discussing the legal aspects of this matter until after it's been resolved; the model may see this at some point and I don't want to tip my hand. The reason that I'm not going after the camsite is related to this, so it will have to wait.

 

[Mila_]

Sorry if there's been some confusion, but I'm trying to avoid including any details that might accidentally lead to the model being identified.

I've known this model for about two years and we regularly interacted outside the camsite that she usually worked on. I've prepaid for time and content on several previous occasions and she's always followed through, if not right away. I wasn't even aware that she wasn't planning to honour this latest agreement until I tried to check in with her one day and found that she'd wiped her web presence, including the tools we'd been using to communicate. That said, I'd contacted her several times leading up to her disappearance, so it's unlikely that she simply forgot.

I'm disappointed that she decided to quit camming, but I'm not upset about it - I've been at this long enough to see several of my favourite models retire. What I am upset about is the fact that she agreed to something unusually expensive, then cut and run with the money. If she knew that she might not be able to keep her side of the deal this time, she shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place; we could have stuck to private shows on the camsite. If something changed and she was no longer willing or able to follow through, she should have let me know that she needed to back out so that we could have tried to work something else out instead.

It's not my intention to move directly to legal action. I'd like to contact her, explain the situation, and ask that she return the money if she's no longer willing to fulfill her side of the bargain. Failing that, I'm hoping that the threat of legal action will be enough to get her to negotiate. That said, I am preparing for the possibility of pursuing legal action because she'd have no reason to negotiate if I was relying on an empty threat. To that end, I'm not interested in discussing the legal aspects of this matter until after it's been resolved; the model may see this at some point and I don't want to tip my hand. The reason that I'm not going after the camsite is related to this, so it will have to wait.

Sounds like you just want to go after her and the money is an excuse. We won't validate you here if that is what you are looking for.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

t's not my intention to move directly to legal action. I'd like to contact her, explain the situation, and ask that she return the money if she's no longer willing to fulfill her side of the bargain. Failing that, I'm hoping that the threat of legal action will be enough to get her to negotiate. That said, I am preparing for the possibility of pursuing legal action because she'd have no reason to negotiate if I was relying on an empty threat. To that end, I'm not interested in discussing the legal aspects of this matter until after it's been resolved; the model may see this at some point and I don't want to tip my hand. The reason that I'm not going after the camsite is related to this, so it will have to wait.

I'm not sure what you want from ACF. Our blessing to track her down or hints on how to do so? I can't/won't provide you with how to track her down. As far as our blessing, why do you care? A $1,000 is a lot to lose, I had a girl quit camming while still owing me $100 for a skype, which was below the threshold for me to waste my time, but enough to be annoyed.

You are being so vague that is really hard to give any informed opinions. If you paid her via a camsite, your first option should be to go through the camsite, and you probably should have done that before the pay period ended, cause there is no way a camsite is going to try and take money retroactively from a model.
If you used some other payment, your second option is to contact whoever you uses to give her the $1,000 Paypal, Snapcash, Amazon gift cards and get them to refund your money. I think it will be an up hill battle, but for $1,000 certainly worth a few hours of your time.
If you want to track her down go for it, whatever rights of privacy she had ended when she took a $1,000 and didn't provide the service she agreed to. But I think you are bit naive to think that she is going automatically hand over the $1,000 just because you send her an email. Honestly, the threats of legal action are a bit hollow. Even if you say sue her in small claims, unless she lives in the same country/state as you good luck collecting.

Finally, this is understandably a pro-model forum, and being stalked by an obsessed member is a big fear of many/most models. If she behaved as you describe, who cares if you scare her. When you rip people off you should be scared of the consequences of your illegal behavior. The caveat on my advice is that I know I've heard at most 1/2 of your side of the story. If everything is exactly how you described then, I'd do it. But if there been behavior on your part which anyway justified her cutting contact with you, then I'd move on.

 

[FluffyGalore]

This all seems a bit iffy tbh. I'm sure there is probably more to it than what we are getting, there are always 2 sides to every story. OP I would like to point out you have no idea what this model is actually like. Even if she did cut and run, you are talking about hunting down someone you know nothing about and taking legal action against them. Is it just me that sees how stupid this is? Forgetting for a min everything else everyone else has said, you could track down this girl and find out she has a nasty tempered partner, is involved with pimps, gangs etc the list is endless. Your safety and possibly hers, all over $1000 which in hindsight you shouldn't have parted with anyway. I would never scam anyone and its shit it's happened to you, but if I were this girl and you tracked me down losing $1000 would be the least of your worries. Right now you need to contact the camsite and sort it from there. All this shit about tracking her and taking her to court is just stupid on sooo many levels, and it sounds more like a personal vendetta rather than you purely trying to get your money back.

 

[yummybrownfox]

The pre-ordering content that hasn't been made yet thing...doesn't ExtraLunchMoney have a system in place that's good for this sort of thing? It's been a long time, but I remember I used to do bicep-bouncing vids for a guy on there. I think the member sends the money (or "credits," as they're called on ELM), but instead of the model receiving the credits instantly, ELM holds them. Once the model has made the content and delivered it to the member, I believe the credits are released into her account (after the member approves it?).

I rarely hear any mention of ELM anymore, but I thought it was a cool site.

 

[Relkinet]

I am trying to get my money back from the model. It's the model that cheated me, not the camsite or payment processor that we used, and I don't feel that I'd be justified in trying to cheat one of them in turn. Even if I could convince one of them to give me some of their money to make me feel better, she'd still be getting away with cheating me out of my money. That said, I want to attempt to get it back in a manner that isn't going to cause unnecessary harm.

I'm not asking anyone to validate how I'm planning to handle this matter. You wouldn't be able make a fair decision without all of the relevant details and I'm not going to share those details without the model's consent. If she wants to discuss it with the community after I've made contact with her, then we can go into further detail.

What I was asking for was advice regarding how I can make contacting her less scary. I think it's safe to assume that showing up in person would be a terrible idea, so I was planning to start with a phone call. Would it be better if I was to find someone to act as a mediator?

 

[EspiKvlt]

You're planning to hunt down her phone number, and you're asking how to NOT come off as a stalker...?

Unless you already have her phone number, there is no situation where you don't look creepy here.

 

[Lexi Emerson]

So she had always followed through before in similar arrangements, you paid again, and then suddenly one day was completely gone with no explanation- correct?

This really sounds like something happened that she may have HAD to leave the industry. Maybe for safety, maybe for something else. Most scammers I have heard about scam from the start...they aren't loyal and good to their word then suddenly quit with $1000. $1000 is a lot but also isn't that much at all, it seems weird that she'd be like, "mwahaha got his money now I shall quit camming all together to scam him!" when she clearly was getting money out of you before.

I could be totally wrong, just doesn't make any sense to me.

Also you going after her for the money instead of the camsite (which they have funds set aside for this very thing) makes it seem like you don't care about the money but instead getting back at the model by tracking her personal info down and intimidating her which is just shitty. If you care about the money, you'd just go to the camsite. But I don't think it is the money you care about.

 

[missrosexox]

What I was asking for was advice regarding how I can make contacting her less scary.

There's nothing you could do to make tracking her down and confronting her personally not scary. That's just terrifying, period. And inappropriate.

If you go see a lawyer, the first thing they'll ask is if you tried to seek a refund through the site that processed your payment, and your unwillingness to do that just makes your intentions seem vindictive and malicious. You need to either go through the cam site or let it go.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Also you going after her for the money instead of the camsite (which they have funds set aside for this very thing) makes it seem like you don't care about the money but instead getting back at the model by tracking her personal info down and intimidating her which is just shitty. If you care about the money, you'd just go to the camsite. But I don't think it is the money you care about.

This definitely the vibe you are sending out. To be fair, when I've had similar situations it was more about the principal than the money so I get it.
But if you are serious about it being money, then start acting like its about the money.

Most debt collector start with snail mail, then certified mail so you have proof she got the mail, then finally phone calls.
The only mediators they use are large intimidating guys

 

[Mathematick]

As everyone's already mentioned, there is NO way you can contact her without coming off as a stalker at best, or terrifying and dangerous at worst. There's no way to mitigate that and confronting her over $1,000 WILL come across as extortion.

Moving along, your post is essentially about taking legal action against this model unless she gives you money. Your absolute first step should be to talk to a lawyer. ANY move on your part to confront her directly is going to make you a stalker. This is not the best way to begin a proceeding (looking like a crazy guy on paper will make you lose the case, if it comes to trial). If you can't find a lawyer who is willing to take this case, then there's no point in considering this course of action any further.

IF you do find a lawyer willing to take the case, then you need the lawyer to contact her. Your information on how to 'probably find her' will be no good here. You will need to hire an investigator to find her, culminating in paperwork that supports that the person you find is, in fact, the model. THEN your lawyer can move forward with the necessary steps. Every part of this will be expensive.

Do keep in mind that I am NOT saying to take this course of action. Not only is it incredibly foolish and kinda insane, you will be out far more money than you stand to gain. This just means that IF you fully intend to disregard what all these intelligent people have to say and pursue this at all costs, stick to the legal system.

 

[Ambers Troll]

Yeah I'm sure you're right... *sigh*... just another reason to actually, um, utilize the private function on the site.

On this point. For the most part/ most times external private options may give a better private experience, I guess that is why they are so popular. It is definitely a riskier type of interaction for all involved though. In short you can't drop out after opting in, there is also no guarantee it will even happen.

You can still get scammed a bit even taking the site private option, but you tend to take more responsibility as a member when you stay in when you should have left.

 

[BobbyB]

So she had always followed through before in similar arrangements, you paid again, and then suddenly one day was completely gone with no explanation- correct?

This really sounds like something happened that she may have HAD to leave the industry. Maybe for safety, maybe for something else. Most scammers I have heard about scam from the start...they aren't loyal and good to their word then suddenly quit with $1000. $1000 is a lot but also isn't that much at all, it seems weird that she'd be like, "mwahaha got his money now I shall quit camming all together to scam him!" when she clearly was getting money out of you before.

I could be totally wrong, just doesn't make any sense to me.

Also you going after her for the money instead of the camsite (which they have funds set aside for this very thing) makes it seem like you don't care about the money but instead getting back at the model by tracking her personal info down and intimidating her which is just shitty. If you care about the money, you'd just go to the camsite. But I don't think it is the money you care about.

This is called the "long con", you act realiably for some time to built up trust so that people feel they can trust you with bigger amounts of money and then you go for the kill and then disappear;

I agree 1000 $ does not look much but if there are several people affected it can add up.....

 

[BobbyB]

I am trying to get my money back from the model. It's the model that cheated me, not the camsite or payment processor that we used, and I don't feel that I'd be justified in trying to cheat one of them in turn. Even if I could convince one of them to give me some of their money to make me feel better, she'd still be getting away with cheating me out of my money. That said, I want to attempt to get it back in a manner that isn't going to cause unnecessary harm.

I'm not asking anyone to validate how I'm planning to handle this matter. You wouldn't be able make a fair decision without all of the relevant details and I'm not going to share those details without the model's consent. If she wants to discuss it with the community after I've made contact with her, then we can go into further detail.

What I was asking for was advice regarding how I can make contacting her less scary. I think it's safe to assume that showing up in person would be a terrible idea, so I was planning to start with a phone call. Would it be better if I was to find someone to act as a mediator?

I don't see how you would "cheat" the camsite or the payment processor if you provide correct information about what happened and if you receive a refund based on this. If you make up the facts that wold be a different story.....

 

[JustWantToSeeThePictures]

If the model did this simply out of greed, I think it's as likely that she just decided that she didn't want to cam anymore, and figured she would scam as much money out of her clients as she could on her way out. It's a big if, though. We don't really have any way of knowing what is actually happening here, which is why the best advice is probably to not try to find her.

 

[Jacque_Gusto]

If she had the time to completely scrub her internet presence as a cam model, then she had enough time to send out an email to whoever she owed content to, such as this gentleman. It seems pretty clear to me, based on what he has told us (yes his side of the story i know but thats all we have to go off of) that she was intending to do this to him and whoever else she possibly scammed. For all he knows, or any of us know, she could be camming on a new site right now under a new name getting ready to run the "long con" on more unsuspecting people. Not every tipper is wealthy, in fact i'd say most are at best middle class, $1000 to him could have been months of saving up to be able to afford it. It just seems everyone is being a little harsh to this poor guy. I've seen countless models out by name (real name and username) guys that have "scammed" them out of far less money. He at least seems to be trying to handle this in a legal matter. Just because she is/was/used to be a cam model does not mean she can just take his 1000 dollars and get off with no repercussion simply under the guise of it being "creepy" to track her down to get his money back. Thats like having someone pick pocket you when you are out on the town, not realizing it til later, and just letting them get away with it because it would be "creepy" just track down someone you don't know to get your money and wallet back. That being said, i'd warn you to give her a few more months to see if she makes contact with you just in case something did come up. But I think once a reasonable time period has elapsed, she should no longer have the protection of being a cam model and you technically have your right to treat her as a criminal. In the end camming is a business, and he paid for services that he did not recieve. Just my two cents..... I in no way endorse the stalking of cam models, lol just want to make that clear.

 

[Snowie1969]

And remember.. maybe she is quite willing to pay you back but I can imagine that when you suddenly have to delete your complete internet presence, you may not have the time to make practical notes on how to contact some people.

In other words: she just be having an equally hard time trying to find you than you have trying to find her!

And do it by the book.. and wonder if it's worth paying $1500 or so to get $1000 back.

 

[NerdieBirdie]

If she had the time to completely scrub her internet presence as a cam model, then she had enough time to send out an email to whoever she owed content to, such as this gentleman. It seems pretty clear to me, based on what he has told us (yes his side of the story i know but thats all we have to go off of) that she was intending to do this to him and whoever else she possibly scammed. For all he knows, or any of us know, she could be camming on a new site right now under a new name getting ready to run the "long con" on more unsuspecting people. Not every tipper is wealthy, in fact i'd say most are at best middle class, $1000 to him could have been months of saving up to be able to afford it. It just seems everyone is being a little harsh to this poor guy. I've seen countless models out by name (real name and username) guys that have "scammed" them out of far less money. He at least seems to be trying to handle this in a legal matter. Just because she is/was/used to be a cam model does not mean she can just take his 1000 dollars and get off with no repercussion simply under the guise of it being "creepy" to track her down to get his money back. Thats like having someone pick pocket you when you are out on the town, not realizing it til later, and just letting them get away with it because it would be "creepy" just track down someone you don't know to get your money and wallet back. That being said, i'd warn you to give her a few more months to see if she makes contact with you just in case something did come up. But I think once a reasonable time period has elapsed, she should no longer have the protection of being a cam model and you technically have your right to treat her as a criminal. In the end camming is a business, and he paid for services that he did not recieve. Just my two cents..... I in no way endorse the stalking of cam models, lol just want to make that clear.

Totally disagree. Not sure based on the name if you are a model or not...but I know as a model if someone was threatening me or my life or my family online, I am going to go to settings-delete account on everything really fast. That shit takes 30 seconds to do. Because my priority would be disabling any accounts where someone to gain information, continue to target me, or pinpoint me. If I wanted to get rid of all of my adult content accounts, it would take me maybe 10 minutes. It doesn't take long to disable accounts. What could take a long time, is sitting down, rifling through different sites, different tip histories, and trying to send out messages I need to quit. Like...are you for real? Its possible she did scam him...who knows...but your theory on how someone should have the time to message every little person letting them know she needs to quit is ridiculous and impractical.

 

[Mila_]

Totally disagree. Not sure based on the name if you are a model or not...but I know as a model if someone was threatening me or my life or my family online, I am going to go to settings-delete account on everything really fast. That shit takes 30 seconds to do. Because my priority would be disabling any accounts where someone to gain information, continue to target me, or pinpoint me. If I wanted to get rid of all of my adult content accounts, it would take me maybe 10 minutes. It doesn't take long to disable accounts. What could take a long time, is sitting down, rifling through different sites, different tip histories, and trying to send out messages I need to quit. Like...are you for real? Its possible she did scam him...who knows...but your theory on how someone should have the time to message every little person letting them know she needs to quit is ridiculous and impractical.

Some people act really weird when it comes to money. There were quite a few people complaining on Reddit about Kanye interrupting his set at a festival. People were calling Kanye a scammer for leaving in the middle of the set, and the festival organizers "scammers" for not giving them a full refund.

The rest of the planet (aka "people who are not completely insane"), understand that if your wife is being held at gunpoint in France, the last of your concerns is finishing the song. Normal people also get that if you organized a 3 day festival and one artist interrupted his set, it is quite ridiculous to expect a refund on the ticket.

But that is how people are, money makes them crazy. There are thousand reasons why she might have had to kill her internet presence. But to this guy she must be a scammer. There are better ways to get his money back such as contacting the site, but he wants blood. Or an excuse to go stalk her, who knows.

 

[Jacque_Gusto]

And we have no reason to believe that she was being threatened. All we have is his side of the story, like i said, to go off of. I find it completely ridiculous and impractical that everyone is making every single excuse possible as to why she disappeared on him and making him out to be the bad guy. He came looking for an easier way to resolve this and everyone is painting him out to be the bad guy here. His fault seems to be coming here and thinking other models would do anything besides make excuses for the girl that has scammed him..... and someone that has sent you a thousand dollars for pre-paid content, does not qualify as "every little person" that has tipped her

 

[Carmita Bonita]

I don't make excuses for models who purposefully scam members. That's fucked and wrong and I think most girls here agree.

However what most people ARE saying is OP has a simpler way of resolving this but he won't go that route. With refusing to contact MFC which could in fact, get him at least some of his money back, that's what makes it start to look bad.

In example, I had someone steal my credit card numbers and buy over $600 worth of shit on newegg.com. They were able to get away with it because I didn't realize anything was amiss until their tech stuff shipped. I reported it to the bank, got my money back but I was still pissed. I tried to get the theifs personal info but the company (newegg) wouldn't give it to me.

But I did get my money back, that was the most important thing.

OP attempting to track down the scamming model will use up more resources and money than what he lost, he was an easier way to resolve it but won't. It's a shitty situation and I sympathize with it--It hurts other camgirls as well when someone scams a member. If the money was a big deal to them, they HAVE the option to go to MFC but when they choose a more costly, semi-stalkery route it looks bad.

 

[Mila_]

And we have no reason to believe that she was being threatened. All we have is his side of the story, like i said, to go off of. I find it completely ridiculous and impractical that everyone is making every single excuse possible as to why she disappeared on him and making him out to be the bad guy. He came looking for an easier way to resolve this and everyone is painting him out to be the bad guy here. His fault seems to be coming here and thinking other models would do anything besides make excuses for the girl that has scammed him..... and someone that has sent you a thousand dollars for pre-paid content, does not qualify as "every little person" that has tipped her

Many of us were understanding at the beginning because we believed his story. I even told him to go after the model and sue her in small claims court if everything else failed. In my case, I really thought OP wanted to get his money back.

It was only after he made it quite clear that he was not going to contact the site, and wanted to find her address and phone number directly that we got creeped out. He then refused to consider any possibility other than "she scammed me" when I pointed out he hadn't talked to her since that happened.

OP also has omitted a lot of information through the thread, and avoided answering to straight questions we asked him. So all in all, I think OP did a fine job at painting himself as a bad guy, we didn't have to do much.

 

[NoelleBright]

And we have no reason to believe that she was being threatened. All we have is his side of the story, like i said, to go off of. I find it completely ridiculous and impractical that everyone is making every single excuse possible as to why she disappeared on him and making him out to be the bad guy. He came looking for an easier way to resolve this and everyone is painting him out to be the bad guy here. His fault seems to be coming here and thinking other models would do anything besides make excuses for the girl that has scammed him..... and someone that has sent you a thousand dollars for pre-paid content, does not qualify as "every little person" that has tipped her

Wrong. He says he's looking for a way to totally recoup his losses, which in this case would only be possible by contacting the site directly. Why has he completely written this off as an option when this is the only way possible he could come out on top?
He wants his full $1000 back and he wants it from the model directly. She never received $1000 though, she got at most 50%ish of that. Does he want her to pull the rest out of her asshole?
Even if he were to take legal action against the girl by the time all is said and done it wouldn't have even been worth his time if he could even find anyone to take his case.
That's what people are taking issue with.
He's completely writing off the most logical course of action in favor of the least logical one.

 

[Jacque_Gusto]

We are assuming that he paid this model through a website like mfc or chaturbate with tokens. OP needs to tell us how he paid her. I have looked through his posts numerous times and he doesn't say exactly how he paid her. I have paid many models for content outside of the camsites, via paypal or other options (luckily have not had issues), this could have been how he paid as well, making going to the camsite and asking for a refund not possible. OP clear it up for everyone on how you paid her. That might help a little.

 

[Guy]

We are assuming that he paid this model through a website like mfc or chaturbate with tokens. OP needs to tell us how he paid her. I have looked through his posts numerous times and he doesn't say exactly how he paid her. I have paid many models for content outside of the camsites, via paypal or other options (luckily have not had issues), this could have been how he paid as well, making going to the camsite and asking for a refund not possible. OP clear it up for everyone on how you paid her. That might help a little.

You've paid models with PayPal?
They ban adult content.