RANT! Our message is NOT a contradiction.

[Deleted member 37064]

Starting to really question the common sense of the individual I'm dealing with here.

Makes two of us...

Third point, ya, no, that sounded a lot like "I have a black friend" except you made your minority friends all sound like helpless drug addicts and shit.

They are not my friends, and yes many of them are drug addicts. Are all of them? No. Are there good people living there struggling to make ends meet? Of course. But, the fact remains that low income areas have more incidents of drug overdoses, violence, rape, domestic abuse, etc. than elsewhere. For the record, low income areas are not exclusive to blacks or minorities. There are many people of many different colours and ethnic backgrounds whom live there.

As I stated before, I speak from personal experience of seeing these things first hand working with the people living there. If I was the least bit racist, bigoted, or whatever, I would not do what I am doing. Are you speaking from experience as well, or is it just that you are commenting on what you've seen in the news, social media and so forth?

Fourth. No. That's not how this works. Just no. You can't call a jew a kike, but as a jew, I can say it and so can Lil Dicky in his songs cause ya know, we had family go through the Holocaust. Same for black people saying the n-word. They went through systematic oppression. You didn't. They can claim the word, you can't. Simple as fucking that.

Please show me where I stated I wanted to claim any derogatory word. Did I state anywhere that I wanted to call anyone a derogatory name? No. You, and others are jumping to conclusions and accusing me of things I didn't say.

I'm asking you, and others to take a step back, and reread what I wrote in terms of the hypocracy of things. This isn't just about racial or ethnic slurs. This isn't just about sexual objectification when I speak of someone degrading themselves. Yes, I provided some examples. But, they were not all-inclusive.
However, the core of my message is as it has always been: The world is full of hypocracy. You cannot control what a person thinks, or acts. However, you can help influence their decisions by how you act and project yourself. If you find a word offensive when others use it. Then, perhaps, one might want to reconsider using it in reference to yourself and members of whatever demograph you belong to. The only way these things will hopefully go away is if everyone stops using them. Lead by example.

At that, I'm stepping away from topic. Too many have misconstrued my posts in this thread. I've attempted to explain things time and time again. Yet, few, if any have truly understood them.

 

[Gen]

As I stated before, I speak from personal experience of seeing these things first hand working with the people living there. If I was the least bit racist, bigoted, or whatever, I would not do what I am doing.

I work in the same (or similar) field, and have worked with lots of bigoted people. I'd argue some people become more bigoted through working in social services than they were before. It's easy to get burnt out when you feel you're trying your best and get resentful for the fact that no matter how hard you're trying, some people won't be helped. Working in a field doesn't mean you're good at it or well suited to it, or that you don't hold prejudices against the people you're helping. Tons of people in social services have a saviour complex or want to help but get mad when they're not appreciated enough, and that turns into prejudice against their clients. I'm not saying you personally are racist or bigoted or anything but saying you can't be because of your job is wrong.

 

[heybarkeep]

Spoiler: Not for the faint of heart

Honky

I feel like ***** was dead on arrival at being an effective racial slur partly due to it sounding too goofy to elicit any negative emotions. Similar to goober in a way. Goober could mean something terrible but you would still be a dick if you were to really take offense to being called one.

 

[AmberCutie]

Goober could mean something terrible but you would still be a dick if you were to really take offense to being called one.

That's my go-to when I wanna call someone a name or tease them but don't actually dislike them or want hurt feelers.

 

[CharlieCharma]

That's my go-to when I wanna call someone a name or tease them but don't actually dislike them or want hurt feelers.

That's what my grandpa has called me for forever whenever I mess up. It's actually kind of adorable.

 

[heybarkeep]

That's my go-to when I wanna call someone a name or tease them but don't actually dislike them or want hurt feelers.

Yeah, harmless, can't remember seeing it used in a hostile fashion really. I could have worded that better. Should have said even if goober meant something terrible, which it doesn't, you'd still be a dick to take offense to such a goofy sounding word. The way I worded it originally can easily be confused as me saying goober means something terrible.

 

[CharlieCharma]

Yeah, harmless, can't remember seeing it used in a hostile fashion really.

I had a very upset three-year-old yell at me that, no, I was the goober after I called her a goober for throwing a fit over some dumb shit. So, ya know. It can't get pretty hostile if you yell it loud enough. XD

 

[n_i_c_u]

He says, "I'm not saying she doesn't deserve respect, and I'm not saying that porn stars and such don't deserve respect. I'm just saying that if they want to send this message, they shouldn't be doing porn, and acting this way, because it contradicts their message; and it's perpetuating, if not encouraging the behavior they're speaking out against."

To be fair, I CAN understand why most would think it's a contradiction.
A camgirl demanding to be treated as a human, and not objectified 24/7, when it's practically her JOB to be a "piece of meat" (god I hate saying that..)

This is all really confusing to me. I want to have a great comment but I don't think it will happen. I don't think you will change your boyfriend if that is what you are wanting from this discourse (always tough to talk about a "he said/she said" with only one person participating, and honestly I would love to hear his actual words if he could even type them to a bunch of people he doesn't know). But, hey, it sparked lots of great thought and maybe you wanted the broader view to be discussed based upon what you quoted him as saying? That is cool.

I would hate to think that your boyfriend represents most people, but, I don't get out very much anymore and don't engage with people that are not cool. Hope you can show this thread to him and he changes his thought.

 

[heybarkeep]

Was curious about the origins of goober. A few chuckles were had along the way.

The most offensive word in the English language. It is the ultimate insult that must be used sparingly. It essentially questions ones validity as a human being. The deepest facets of human nature itself are called into question and examined upfront when calling someone a "goober", "goob", or "gooberino". As "fricc" is to "fuck", one may also use "goofball" to ease the intensity of this word.

by DaquanDuBrillious January 03, 2017

Derrogatory term used by US soldiers for any local citizen or Insurgent, in both Afghanistan and Iraq, particularly after the military leadership decreed that using the term "Hadji" was a punishable offense.
"Well guys, it looks like we can shoot 'em with rifles or missiles, but should you go so far as to call one a Hadji your ass is grass. I recommend that you call them 'Goober' instead; it seems less offensive to the untrained ear..."

by B 2/75 October 01, 2005

female goober = goobette

Brought by slaves to what is now the Southeastern United States, the word goober is derived from the Bantu word for peanut. In slang usage, goober derives from Goober Pyle, a character on the 1960s American TV sitcom, The Andy Griffith Show. Originally, the word referred to a dullard who hails from rural America.

Bout to start using dullard more often. Up there with goober and doofus as least insulting sounding insults.

 

[swagger]

About this whole message thing, I'm old, but to me it's kind of comic booky. Kind of like having a nickname, "they call me beast mode", no, you called yourself beast mode and hoped your friends would join in. I guess celebrities can have a message, but they're kind of comic booky too. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the concept of having a message, like this avatar like goal that floats above your head isn't super prevalent in the real world. People judge you by your behavior, if you have some sort of inner monologue or message you're trying to push, perhaps your best bet is to exhibit that in your behavior, because that's what the rest of us see. My opinions here aren't based on the morality of judgement, objectification, sexual or otherwise, just on the whole "having a message" thing.

 

[Ambers Troll]

I never said which female performer I would use as a good example of

a strong woman, that expresses her sexuality, and sends a message that you still need to respect women, even if they are sexual.

..... I really like Christina Aguilera, that woman has had so much cock and been completely unapologetic for it yet no one slut shames her for it.
Take her most popular album 'Stripped' for example, there is a song called 'Infatuation'. If you understand the topic, she is actually saying how much fun/ wonderful it is as a rich woman paying for sex/ romance. Now that is an example for models worth celebrating.

 

[jolietjake]

I have been reading this thread with interest...except for the Nicki Minaj part which I have no interest in...and it triggered something I have been thinking about for a long time. Maybe part of the issue is sex as behavior vs. sex as identity. Sex is the first division of human beings. We are all human, then we are male and female. To be sure there are great variations within those two categories, but still it is the first divider of humans. Therefore, sex is who we are, not what we do. So maybe we would be better off thinking of it in that way. A camgirl is not just expressing her sexuality, but expressing the way she views/ expresses her femaleness in relation to other humans. And how I react to her is an expression of my maleness. Maybe that would help me be mindful of the fact that she is a female human and I am a male human and those are the only two categories I need to pay attention to when interacting. Maybe if we start to think of that in those terms then the whole objectification/ message thing goes away because it becomes about the way we express the most basic part of identity rather than about our behavior and what message it gives people. If there is a message, it becomes "this is how I see my femaleness/ maleness".

 

[CedricDean]

Holy shit, I don't usually read rants, but I took a chance on this thread and wtf?? How is this controversial? How did your very reasonable discomfort with your boyfriend's prejudiced remarks end up sparking such a mess?

Two ideas here: (1) people can be sexual without deserving to be treated as objects, and (2) people, especially women, are not degraded or less respectable by being sexual.

Duh??

The difference between being sexual and being sexualized comes down to two concepts: agency and consent. You have the right to express your sexuality in ways that do not harm others, whether through fashion, sexual acts, or selling sexual entertainment (as a cam host or a pop singer). Other people should respect you as a person, respect your boundaries, ask permission before doing things like touching you, sending dick pics, or using potentially offensive sexual language. Treating you as though your choices, feelings, bodily autonomy, etc. don't matter, or acting as though your only value comes from the sexual gratification of others is wrong. Full stop.

Human sexuality is fucking bizarre, let's be honest. But it's not shameful (unless it is expressed in ways that harm others), and it doesn't diminish the worth or agency of the people who partake in it. It doesn't make people's ideas any less worth listening to, and it doesn't make someone's feelings and boundaries matter less. The idea that sex workers deserve less respect than other workers because of our profession is prejudiced and wrong. Why am I selling my "virtue" but bankers who make shady loans and private prison owners aren't? Why am I "selling my body" but retail workers who develop foot or back injuries from standing and coal miners who develop black lung aren't? We're providing a service that brings people enjoyment, not suffering or injustice-- where's the lack of virtue or respectability in that? The fact that people are willing to pay $20 to watch someone shove a dildo in their bits doesn't mean that person is only worth $20, any more than paying $20 to see a concert pianist play means that the pianist herself is only worth $20. Our sexuality (or lack, in the case of ace folks) is part of us, but it doesn't limit us or define our worth, and anyone who thinks it does is bigoted and wrong.

 

[Ms_Gingersnatch]

I think the whole idea of a "slutty" woman saying "don't objectify women" is confusing to people because we aren't very clear about what it means to objectify someone. That's how you end up with people honestly wondering things like "But doesn't she objectify herself all the time?" IMO, when we say "don't objectify me," it really means something along the lines of "don't treat me as an object (a thing without needs or agency) for your sexual gratification without my consent."

If I go about my life dressing/acting "like a slut," I'm not objectifying myself. I'm simply enjoying my sexuality as part of being a human. If I work in the sex industry or in a highly sexualized industry, I may cater to other people's sexual desires, but that occurs by my own choice, within defined boundaries, and I'm being rewarded for it financially. That's not the type of objectification I'm trying to avoid. If I'm in bed with a partner, and I ask him to treat me like a[n ejaculatory fluid receptacle], that's more of a kink game - it's consensual, it gets me off as much as it does him, and we both know it's symbolic and not how either of us sees me irl.

Objectification becomes a problem when you do it in ways that I didn't outright request and that indicate that no aspect of my humanity matters except the aspects that get you off or please you.

A lot of comments on this thread have been along the lines of "We only see you/Nikki Minaj as your public selves. We don't know the other, non-sexual parts of you very well. How can we objectify or avoid objectifying you when we don't have another frame of reference?" It's fine to treat us like cam models when we are being cam models. We choose to be there and to be sexually pleasing to our audiences. It's ok to see us in a sexual way, and that's not the bad kind of objectification. A lot of the negative objectification we experience happens when people ignore our boundaries, which is essentially telling us that our choices/needs don't matter compared to what your dick wants. You don't objectify women by having sexual thoughts about us. But when we don't matter as humans, that's when you've made us into objects in your mind.

A few examples of how someone might objectify me as a cam model by putting his desires above my humanity:

• When a customer demands that I wake up, get sexy, and do an appointment at 4:30 am, even though I've stated that I will be asleep at that time.
• When a customer insists that his strong feelings for my cam persona should grant him the ability to meet, fuck, date, or marry me, despite the fact that I haven't indicated a willingness to take my cam experience into the real world.
• When a custie breaks my rules or urges me to break my limits because it's something he really wants.
• If an irl friend finds out that I cam and immediately thinks I'll give him a blow job, although we've known each other for several years, and I've never expressed any desire to suck his dick. Somehow being sexy for money means I'm all sex, all the time, and nothing else.
• When a cam viewer mistreats me because he just wants me to be a slut, not a businesswoman (aka gets butthurt if I won't do things for free).
• When a fan feels that his desire to be a part of my life exceeds my need for privacy.
• If a customer happens to encounter me while I'm trying to buy my damn groceries and gets upset that I don't fit his mental image of an utterly depraved slut 24/7.

So, to come back to the point, I don't think it's inconsistent for a highly sexual woman or a sex worker to send the message that people shouldn't treat women like their basic needs/wants/humanity matter less than a man's sexual desires.

 

[SaffronBurke]

If a customer happens to encounter me while I'm trying to buy my damn groceries and gets upset that I don't fit his mental image of an utterly depraved slut 24/7.

Lord, I can only imagine how disappointing it would be for a sub to see me buying kitty litter and toilet paper in my bleach-stained "grocery store sweats". Sorry I'm not tarted up and wearing a corset, I have shit to do.

 

[Ms_Gingersnatch]

Lord, I can only imagine how disappointing it would be for a sub to see me buying kitty litter and toilet paper in my bleach-stained "grocery store sweats". Sorry I'm not tarted up and wearing a corset, I have shit to do.

LOL! Yes! I can just imagine a custie: "Wait... but... you're always so ready to go. I thought you'd be having a threeway with the cashier and the bag boy right there on the conveyor belt!"

Me: "Um... self checkout, bb. You know perfectly well that if you give me a good machine, I can handle shit all by myself!"