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Do you feel that this technology will help you greatly reduce piracy of your content?


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WebcamStartup

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This is all very interesting, and if I wasn't about to walk out the door in a few hours on an awesome desert trip of epicness, I'd take the time to go over everything in-depth, which I will when I return. Forgive me if this question is already answered above and I'm just being lazy, but;

Can a model or studio implement this tech on their own, or is this something that really has to be done by the networks the model / studio is performing on?

Is there any case-studies from the industry that demonstrate an effectiveness in DMCA takedowns?

Is there any costs of implementation for independent models and is there an average ROI on implementation?

How the hell are sites within the Pornhub network on the list of participants, but not Pornhub itself?
 
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WebcamStartup

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I still say the solution is to convince an Anon Sect to launch #OpCamgirl and do some massive DDOS / defacing of scraper sites, especially those that are monetizing pirated content through subscription memberships.

Sometimes criminal acts are the most effective methods of fighting crime.
 

justjoinedtopost

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And a camsite that allowed no guest viewing would be a camsite with no members.
I understand this is a necessary evil. I just wish they would all time limit guest views. It irks me to see the goal reached, and the room count jump way up, all guest viewers.

I'm not opposed to this and the technology sounds cool but I think hyperbolic talk of war and massive lost income is incorrect and dramatic
This is where @FemdomGoddess really lost me.

Also if the FBI got involved to bust Butthurt Bob for sharing ten of my videos, I'd question the use of federal resources
Agreed. I would much rather they focus their efforts on those damned reefer addicts.


I still say the solution is to convince an Anon Sect to launch #OpCamgirl and do some massive DDOS / defacing of scraper sites, especially those that are monetizing pirated content through subscription memberships.
I can't stand those sites. Curious though, how much money they make.

I did download a couple of shows from a now defunct site (camddl), but that was just to compare and see if an fps issue was just me, or others too. The cam without the chat just isn't the same
 

WebcamStartup

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I can't stand those sites. Curious though, how much money they make.

I did download a couple of shows from a now defunct site (camddl), but that was just to compare and see if an fps issue was just me, or others too. The cam without the chat just isn't the same

I've dabbled as an adult webmaster. Conversion rates on paysite affiliate programs don't convert at all. The tube generation, I guess. The display ad networks (Plugrush, Juicyads, ect) pay crap PPC / CPM, too. With the traffic porn sites get, if you were making AdSense style revenue it would be lucrative.

*BUT* Since adult traffic doesn't convert, adult traffic is worth crap.

Honestly, camming is the only profitable niche in the adult industry, at least for a webmaster / affiliate. I was shocked when I started getting some customer commissions from my model resources. I wasn't even targeting the actual customers, but they converted.

I've contemplated dabbling in the camming / amateur niche, targeting customers. But the issue is; how the hell do you build up a camming niche site without content? None of the camming sites give content to use for promotion. Sure, you can embed a bunch of tube videos, but if the video gets deleted, you've got a bunch of broken embeds.

The only people who have the content to do this are the people doing it illegally.

In all honesty, if the camming sites were to offer affiliates some video content to build up niche sites, it'd probably help mitigate some of the illegal pirating. Would also help affiliates LEGALLY promote their network. Some networks, CamWithHer, for example, do provide such content, but c'mon, now! CamWithHer, ICGirls and all the other sites in their network are on their way out.

So, to answer your question; If they're monetizing through revshare camming affiliate programs, there's tons of potential. If it's just adult advertiser / publisher network ads, they're making crap income. One has to wonder about the quality of the traffic, too. They're on scraper sites because they don't want to pay for cam shows. If they're not going to pay, it doesn't matter if they convert or not. PPL might even be better than revshare in that particular scenario, but fuck PPL. Eventually the network will ban the webmaster from using PPL if their traffic doesn't perform anyway.
 

FemdomGoddess

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This topic is being discussed in many different places. It's also being presented to major news and industry outlets.

The response to this topic on this forum is greatly different than everywhere else it's being discussed. I can only assume that most of the people who have replied have nothing to do with content creation and are for piracy. A few have even admitted to participating in pirating content in one form or another.

I would like to see more models opinions on this topic. Opinions from anyone other than content producers is useless and will be written off. I cannot see that models who are serious about their chosen career would be against this in one form or another. Hell, there are even models who have become DMCA agents because of they saw a great opportunity.

I suppose a good solution to the models who are against this and want to participate in piracy is to allow them to opt out of using the technology.
 

Gen

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Mar 23, 2013
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I create content and also pirate movies/books/music.

anyone here with the little banner that says "cam girl" creates content. A lot of members here are also writers, artists, etc. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're uninformed or useless.
 

justjoinedtopost

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This topic honestly belongs in Cam Girl Discussion.
And yet, you posted it in Random Discussion. Gotta say, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
You can consider yourself written off.
 
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SaffronBurke

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I create a lot of content, frequently 20+ videos a week. I really don't bother myself worrying about piracy, because I would rather spend my non-filming time doing things that are going to make me money - researching new fetishes, queuing ads on social media, and networking with other models - rather than give myself a headache worrying about piracy.

The sheer volume of content I produce makes it so that I really don't worry too much about people reselling my content or uploading it elsewhere, because it is just not worth my time or energy when I could be working instead. Piracy will exist as long as digital media exists. Rather than worry about it, I focus on creating things that people will want to buy. I don't have the time to add more steps to the process of creating my videos. I shave away enough sleeping time as it is getting everything done in time, why sacrifice more?
 
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AmberCutie

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This topic belongs in Cam Girl Discussion.
Would have been better if you started it in General Camming Discussion (I will move it) but please don't assume that since it's in that area, that members are not allowed to discuss within the topic.
 
Oct 21, 2014
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A: Those 10 videos that ButtHurt Bob bought are each uniquely watermarked. This watermark(s) can contain ButtHurt Bob's Username, Email, IP Address, Mac Address, Device, Browser, Time, Date, or anything else they would like.
The MAC (it's an acronym, not a raincoat) address doesn't propogate beyond the local network segment and can be changed anyway. So you've got a throwaway username, a throwaway email, the external IP address of a VPN or onion router exit node, a browser identifier which is trivially spoofed etc. (not that knowing that the video was sent to someone using IE10 is much use anyway)

I agree piracy of digital media is a problem, I don't agree that steganography is the solution.
 
Sep 28, 2012
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FemdomGoddess, mate. Are you trying to sell this thing or are you trying to convince people not to use it by putting them off with a combative attitude and ad hominem attacks? Cos right now, you're doing the latter, innit.

Yours sincerely
Butthurt Bob
I hope Bob's isn't too Butthurt with me.:sweating: But that is exactly my question also, are you selling something? trying to mobilize support? Because right now you coming across as a fingerprinting jihadist and it is not helping you.

Piracy is clearly a problem. I found a site the doesn't even uploaded cap shows, just sold camgirl videos. When some camgirl charges $50 or even $200 for a video, I think it is naive to believe that even folks who are willing to spend money to buy camgirl content won't be tempted.

But I also don't think it makes sense to give up and say, fuck it piracy is here forever nothing I can do about it.

The lessons the music industry learned for iTunes, the movie/tv business have learned from Netflix/Hulu etc. and the game business with Steam is that you need to do two things.
First, you need to make the content affordable. Sure I could torrent movies, but for $9/month from Netflix why bother with the hassle. The Same thing is true for Steam, if I'm willing to wait 6 months after the game is released and it's been patched a few times, I can get them for $5-$20 generally.
Second you need to add enough anti-piracy protection to act as a deterrent for casual piracy. There is no way you'll stop all the piracy. In the examples I gave you ain't going to be able to stop capper Craig from doing his thing. However, it's possible you maybe able to stop Butthurt Bob,and Newbie Neal from sharing their videos if they know that there is a risk that could have their account banned.

But, I'm pretty sure that this needs to be super easy for the camgirls to use. Probably nothing more than cut and paste the guys username into the fingerprinting program before you send him a link to the video.
More importantly, you need to get the cooperation of the camsites, the clips4sales, manyvids etc, because without their help you are pissing into a hurricane.
 
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FemdomGoddess

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All these claims on how this won't work but not one person has purposed a better solution besides provide more affordable content. What is a better solution?
 
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Shaun__

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This is no joke! It's been used by the motion picture industry and companies like HBO for a few years now.

I always wondered how Hollywood had ended all piracy on the internet, but now I know. And knowing is half the battle.
R2rU7pR.gif
 

justjoinedtopost

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From someone that has helped models with DMCA takedowns...

1. Watermark doesn't deter piracy, just helps in validating for takedowns, that is if the site follows DMCA takedown protocal, several don't.

2. For personal videos/prize's...if you take time to watermark with winners screen name it can cut down on it getting uploaded...also works with tru/pvts. Again won't deter, but can help track uploaders or butthurt bob's.

As far as fighting back, that would take action from the websites to deter it before it happens... IE going after piracy websites. Instead of just removing content, go after the websites provider like contacting Cloudshare to take down website (several piracy sites use it). For example Cloudshare is in USA and follows DMCA protocal, but will not give out site owner information without a court order. But will give information about the sites server if enough complaints are filed. MFC has lawyers and I'm sure could get this done, but doesn't. Instead they focus on sending emails to take down, which don't always work.

Another option would be for camsite to limit time/amount of basic/guests. If guest would get kicked after 15 minutes and basic 30 minutes, these automated piracy sites would have to over come this. Then limit amount of basic/guest in room, so they can automate it so they can't come right back. Tracking premiums is easy if they are recording, if they are in top 20 rooms and not talking, you can take a good guess what's going on. Camsite is not likely to do this as it would take money to code, and could limit potential sales as the 'popular girls' would fill quickly. Maybe make it model option(most likely will get abused) during public show or during weekends/busy hours?


The more fun and intersting method would be for the camgirls to attack back by contacting some hacker group to track down who is doing the sites and make it public. Atleast with paparizzi the actors can see who they are dealing with, and that in a nutshell is what these piracy sites are, using someone elses name/face for their benefit, and have same mentality from what I've read on other forums.

Good luck in your war.
 

JerryBoBerry

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This is no joke! It's been used by the motion picture industry and companies like HBO for a few years now.


Your example of HBO is amusing given the first four episodes of Game of Thrones season 5 that were leaked were digitally watermarked. They were smudged out and copies sent out on torrents. Didn't really stop them.
 
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VeronicaChaos

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I feel like partially what needs to happen is the ease of payment, as well as reputability. Lots of people aren't going to go through the effort of getting out their credit card every time they want to fap, and just as many don't trust porn sites with their credit cards at all. At this point, it is easier to watch porn free than it is to pay for it, regardless of if one's willing to or not. On google if you search for a video there are tons of renting and streaming options that are the first result, one click, bam. Why bother going through the effort of downloading a torrent when you can watch whatever you want for a few bucks? Unfortunately, due to the high risk nature of pornography, there are way more loops to go through to offer payment. And the independency of porn producers such as us makes it more difficult for licensing to become a reality like it has for mainstream media. And of course every camgirl/content maker has completely varied opinions about advertising, piracy, licensing, etc.

We're buskers on the street. What we need to move towards is becoming credible companies that offer licensing options for mass audiences.
 
The response to this topic on this forum is greatly different than everywhere else it's being discussed. I can only assume that most of the people who have replied have nothing to do with content creation and are for piracy. A few have even admitted to participating in pirating content in one form or another.

I would like to see more models opinions on this topic. Opinions from anyone other than content producers is useless and will be written off. I cannot see that models who are serious about their chosen career would be against this in one form or another. Hell, there are even models who have become DMCA agents because of they saw a great opportunity.

It sounds like you're mainly looking for responses from cam girls, so I was wondering why you didn't just post this in the Models Only section (but I see you're not verified...I'm not either) or in the Ask-A-Model section (though members often respond to Ask-A-Model posts too...lol). I've seen a thread similar to this get a little ugly in the past. Lol. You should've been here a few years ago when what's his face was on here admitting to being a well-known capper, and saying that cam girls should be grateful to him...because he's one of the "nicer, more respectful" cappers. Lmfao...

clarence-laugh-o.gif
 
Sep 15, 2010
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Anyone promising to stop <anything bad> happening on the internet is making a commitment they can't live up to. At best this technology will make piracy a little more difficult; it won't "stop" anything. The people who will drop out will be the casual file sharers, and the ones who carry on will be the people who profit financially from it.
 

JerryBoBerry

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Anyone promising to stop <anything bad> happening on the internet is making a commitment they can't live up to. At best this technology will make piracy a little more difficult; it won't "stop" anything. The people who will drop out will be the casual file sharers, and the ones who carry on will be the people who profit financially from it.

I was thinking of posting just that, but ya beat me to it. I was reminded of games on Apple IIe's back in the early 80's. Some of them had copy protection software so people couldn't sell copies. Of course there was software to break that protection.

And of course DVD players have that region protection so you can't play a DVD in america if it was sold in the UK. Of course all the codes got leaked and that whole protection scheme went out the window fairly quickly. Nowadays copying a DVD or Bluray is not even an inconvenience to do it's so simple.

At one point Disney came out with a new encryption scheme, it was right before they were planning on releasing their latest blockbuster. The method to bypass their new encryption was leaked 3 weeks before the film was released. So people were making copies immediately.

I could go on but the idea is for every single protection scheme that has been invented and touted as the ultimate anti-piracy measure, pirates have come up with a way around it quickly. There's no exception I can think of. So they are pretty much useless. The only ones they benefit are the people who come up with the new protection scheme as they try to convince people to buy it through their fear mongering.

To put it another way: a website has ads, you install an adblocker. The site comes up with adblocker blockers. Now you can install Anti-adblocker blocker blockers.

It never ends. Anyone who tells you they have a way to stop piracy doesn't know what they are talking about.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Digital watermarking is great if you're trying to figure out which member of the Academy, or which critic that you sent a screener to, had theirs leaked. It does less than nothing to figure out which completely anonymous unpaid visitor capped a livestream, and would require that each stream is individually modified for each viewer, which would be exceedingly expensive (one stream vs. 1000 streams in a popular MFC room). It could be used by e.g. clips4sale to track it back to a specific user and credit card, but that credit card is likely to also be anonymous and disposable.

The best there is right now for copy protection is probably HDCP as used by e.g. Netflix. It's so effective that it sometimes takes as much as an hour or so before new Netflix releases make it onto torrent sites.

Put "analog" (visible) watermarks on your stream/clips to drive traffic back to you, maybe spend a little time DMCAing to reduce visibility, but beyond that it just isn't worth it.

what needs to happen is the ease of payment, as well as reputability
1000 times this.
 
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