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Trayvon Martin

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CammiStar said:
I have a question...

Why is the fact that this man had grass stains on his back and a bloody face an issue? Zimmerman was the one following Trayvon with a gun. Maybe Trayvon was trying to defend himself.

So if I think somebody might be up to no good and I follow them (Without putting my hands on them), they are allowed to attack me?

And that is bullshit about the gun, Any moron would back off if they knew the other guy had a gun unless A. they were a little wanna-be thug or B. they didn't see the gun until they got their ass shot.
 
What Trayvon did was protected under "stand your ground", as Zimmerman pursued him.

What Zimmerman did was NOT protected under "stand your ground" because he was secure, in an SUV, and was not being threatened by Trayvon until AFTER he started pursuing.

Basically, it went down like this:

Zimmerman overreacts to the fact that someone with a hoodie is nearby.
Zimmerman leaves his safety to investigate person in a hoodie.
Person in a hoodie feels threatened by Zimmerman and attacks under Stand Your Ground law.
Zimmerman is now being threatened by Trayvon, after having threatened Trayvon.
Zimmerman starts loosing the fight and pulls out his gun.

Who hit who first in the fistfight is irrelevant, because Zimmerman was not being threatened until he pursued Trayvon.
 
BustyJules said:
CammiStar said:
I have a question...

Why is the fact that this man had grass stains on his back and a bloody face an issue? Zimmerman was the one following Trayvon with a gun. Maybe Trayvon was trying to defend himself.

So if I think somebody might be up to no good and I follow them (Without putting my hands on them), they are allowed to attack me?

And that is bullshit about the gun, Any moron would back off if they knew the other guy had a gun unless A. they were a little wanna-be thug or B. they didn't see the gun until they got their ass shot.

If you think they're up to no good and you follow them when they are not on your property, you are playing hero which is not your job or your right.

What happened with you is different- the guy you were going to shoot was on your property, and broke a car window. The guy you were going to shoot had his hood down, but pulled it up right before breaking the car window. That is obvious suspect, threatening you and your property.

If a person is acting suspiciously but not threatening either yourself or your property, then your responsibility is to contact the authorities, not chase him down and try to play hero.
 
CammiStar said:
I have a question...

Why is the fact that this man had grass stains on his back and a bloody face an issue? Zimmerman was the one following Trayvon with a gun. Maybe Trayvon was trying to defend himself.

Because, those injuries and stains corroborate Zimmerman's account and an eye-witness acct, both of which claimed Zimmerman was on the defensive. People are making this out to be an act of premeditated murder, that Zimmerman walked up to Martin and put two in Martin's chest.

As for following Trayvon... Could be because the Neighborhood Watch told him to? Follow suspicious people from a distance, report crimes if they happen. But lets go with the theory that Zimmerman was planning an execution or to goad Trayvon into a Justified Homicide.

As for Trayvon defending himself? From what? Zimmerman has a handgun but decides to try to take Trayvon with his hands? Doesn't fit. If you need to hammer some nails into wood and got a hammer, you are going to use the hammer.
 
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The eye-witness said they were fistfighting, and Zimmerman was losing, and went to call 911 - and announced it in hearing of the combatants. Then, at some point after he'd called 911 and before he looked out the upstairs window, there had been a gunshot, fighting had ceased and Trayvon was dead.

As soon as the witness was out of view, Zimmerman appears to have decided he needed to defend himself with deadly force, even though he knew police were on the way.

Zimmerman's black neighbour also said he seemed like a "good guy", but then went on to say that he pretty much stayed in his house because every email going around from Zimmerman described suspects in the area as "black males" and his neighbour said he didn't feel like getting shot, at which point his pregnant wife broke into tears and said she hopes their child doesn't have to go through that (meaning unable to leave their house for fear of being shot because they're black and therefore meet the description of someone being up to no good). Zimmerman's neighbour expressed shock that Zimmerman was walking around armed. (Note that an earlier article Boce posted (http://www.examiner.com/charleston-...hed-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin#ixzz1qA3DqLGS) summarised this segment as "In fact the Miami Herald goes on to interview neighbor, Ibrahim Rashada, who is black. Rashada ​confirms that there has been a lot of crime in the neighborhood and indicates to the reporter that the perpetrators are usually black."

They discussed the topic with Zimmerman when the watch captain knocked on their door late last year. Zimmerman seemed friendly, helpful, and a “pretty cool dude,” Ibrahim Rashada said.

“He came by here and talked about carrying guns and getting my wife more involved with guns,” he said. “He said I should have a weapon and that his wife took classes to learn how to use one.

“I do have a weapon, but I don’t walk around the neighborhood with mine!”

Actually, he does not walk around the neighborhood at all.

“I fit the stereotype he emailed around,” he said. “Listen, you even hear me say it: ‘A black guy did this. A black guy did that.’ So I thought, ‘Let me sit in the house. I don’t want anyone chasing me.’ ”

For walks, he goes downtown. A pregnant Quianna listened to her husband’s rationale, dropped her head, and cried.

“That’s so sad,” she said. “I hope our child doesn’t have to go through that.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2 ... rylink=cpy

The former neighbourhood watch captain likewise describes Zimmerman as a good guy, then wondered why he wasn't carrying pepper-spray or a taser, saying that carrying a gun around was "bizarre-o".
He suspects Zimmerman got tired of thugs “and reached his breaking point,” Taaffe said. “But why was he carrying a gun? Why not carry pepper spray or a Taser? That’s bizarre-o

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2 ... rylink=cpy
 
LadyLuna said:
BustyJules said:
CammiStar said:
I have a question...

Why is the fact that this man had grass stains on his back and a bloody face an issue? Zimmerman was the one following Trayvon with a gun. Maybe Trayvon was trying to defend himself.

So if I think somebody might be up to no good and I follow them (Without putting my hands on them), they are allowed to attack me?

And that is bullshit about the gun, Any moron would back off if they knew the other guy had a gun unless A. they were a little wanna-be thug or B. they didn't see the gun until they got their ass shot.

If you think they're up to no good and you follow them when they are not on your property, you are playing hero which is not your job or your right.

What happened with you is different- the guy you were going to shoot was on your property, and broke a car window. The guy you were going to shoot had his hood down, but pulled it up right before breaking the car window. That is obvious suspect, threatening you and your property.

If a person is acting suspiciously but not threatening either yourself or your property, then your responsibility is to contact the authorities, not chase him down and try to play hero.

He was across the street tho, Not even at my building. If it were my car, I would of chased him down and shot him if he took an ounce of a step toward me.

Listen, I get it isn't smart to be the "hero" but when you have to live with thugs running around day in and day out and the cops never doing shit about it, you gotta play hero. If the cops wont do their job and protect my neighborhood, me and one of the guns in my house WILL.

Also the stand your ground law COULD come into play with zimmerman. If he simply walked up to trayvon and said "What are you doing here?" and trayvon started beating the shit out of him and he felt his life was in danger and shot, it is easily self defense. If you listen very closely the operator said "We don't need you to do that" not "STOP FOLLOWING HIM", word use is key also.

I asked my CCL instructor about stand your ground before any of this happened and he said that if I feel threatened and I take just one step back and the person or people continue coming at me that I can use my weapon under stand your ground.
 
LadyLuna said:
What Trayvon did was protected under "stand your ground", as Zimmerman pursued him.

What Zimmerman did was NOT protected under "stand your ground" because he was secure, in an SUV, and was not being threatened by Trayvon until AFTER he started pursuing.

Basically, it went down like this:

Zimmerman overreacts to the fact that someone with a hoodie is nearby.
Zimmerman leaves his safety to investigate person in a hoodie.
Person in a hoodie feels threatened by Zimmerman and attacks under Stand Your Ground law.
Zimmerman is now being threatened by Trayvon, after having threatened Trayvon.
Zimmerman starts loosing the fight and pulls out his gun.

Who hit who first in the fistfight is irrelevant, because Zimmerman was not being threatened until he pursued Trayvon.

Um, no. Merely following somebody while you have a handgun on your person and not in your hands does not constitute a threat to anyone's life or a threat to grievous bodily harm.

As for him getting out of his car. Doesn't matter. The Law allows for it. If you hear a noise and leave your place of safety to investigate it, find out its a bad guy and kill the bad guy because he was advancing on you, you are still justified.
 
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Who hit who first in the fistfight is irrelevant, because Zimmerman was not being threatened until he pursued Trayvon.

Who initiated the physical altercation is 100% relevant. If I turned around and broke someone's jaw or nose because he was following me, I'd be responsible for his medical bills. If someone is on top of me repeatedly smashing my head into a concrete sidewalk, that is a life threatening event where using deadly force in self-defense is totally justified.

They both had every legal right to be where they were. Granted, Zimmerman should not have left his vehicle in pursuit. He says he got out of his vehicle to check the street sign, which is debatable, and was assaulted by Martin.

Sanford police have confirmed that investigators believe Martin decked Zimmerman with a single punch and bashed his head against the sidewalk. Zimmerman then fired his nine millimeter.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162- ... ontentBody
 
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LadyLuna said:
Zimmerman overreacts to the fact that someone with a hoodie is nearby.
Zimmerman leaves his safety to investigate person in a hoodie.
Person in a hoodie feels threatened by Zimmerman and attacks under Stand Your Ground law.
Zimmerman is now being threatened by Trayvon, after having threatened Trayvon.
Zimmerman starts loosing the fight and pulls out his gun.
The entire hoodie thing appears to be another example of lawyer/media spin at work. From the actual call from Zimmerman to the police:
Zimmerman:

We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about.

Dispatcher:

OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.

Dispatcher:

Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring.
Zimmerman doesn't mention the hoodie until he is asked what Martin is wearing. Not sure how you go from that to Zimmerman thought he was suspicious because he was wearing a hoodie. At least, you can't unless you have a window into his head no one else has.

It appears, in fact, that the insinuation that Zimmerman thought he was suspicious because he was wearing a hoodie was originally reported from a quote from one of Martin's lawyers (see the comments thread about the first appearance of the words hoodie associated with the case). The skittles and iced tea rhetoric also appears to have originated with Martin's lawyers.
 
Bocefish said:
Paulie Walnuts said:
He got out of his car from a distant position of safety with a gun to play Judge, Jury and executioner.
When he was instructed not to, by law enforcement.

911 operators are not law enforcement, most agencies consider the dispatcher position as entry-level, requiring only a high school education and a clean background.

You call 911 for help, and instruction.

If he was playing judge, jury and executioner as you opine, how did he get his nose broken and head slammed on the concrete sidewalk several times?

He could have gotten is brains blown out all over the street and still be 100% at fault. He is the one who was the aggressor chasing a suspect who was doing nothing but walking around. last time I checked, walking around isnt illegal.

He got what he was after, a hero kill. Now he's gonna have to live with the backlash.
 
Ru-roh

I just saw police station video of them bringing Zimmerman in. He's cuffed and doesn't have a mark on him or a dirt/grass on his clothes. No bloody head, no busted nose, no nothin.

This is gonna be an interesting week.
 
Paulie Walnuts said:
Ru-roh

I just saw police station video of them bringing Zimmerman in. He's cuffed and doesn't have a mark on him or a dirt/grass on his clothes. No bloody head, no busted nose, no nothin.

This is gonna be an interesting week.

Maybe because this happened a month ago? I'm sure he has changed his clothes :think:
 
Paulie Walnuts said:
lol

No it's from when they took him in immediately after.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... adquarters

Ok I watched, No he doesn't look badly injured but security cameras are not always the best quality. (They should totally hire us cam girls to set up some kick ass cams) anywho.... He could have had injuries not noticed by the video and grass stains could of been on his shirt, not his jacket. I mean, everytime I've ever been in a fight the first thing i would do is take off anything that weighs me down or can help the other person (Jackets, earrings, Hair tied up).

I wasn't there, none of us were and we all have different opinions and my opinion stands. BTW have any of you asked yourself this: If little trayvon was soooo afraid and this nutjob was following him for no reason, why didn't he dial 911? Why was trayvon shot in the front if he was trying to get away? And don't forget the eyewitness accounts that support Zimmerman story.

On those 3 points alone I would acquit Zimmerman.

EDIT: One thing i do want to say is I'm honestly surprised of how even tho some of us disagree that this has been debated in a adult fashion without personal attacks and outright rudeness. Props to everyone! I'm jumping on cam now, But I'm sure there will be more to talk about later :)
 
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I have wondered why the kid didnt call 911 instead of chatting with his GF while running away.

:think:
 
That video is such poor quality you can't really see anything in detail, much less detect grass stains on a dark colored jacket. As for the injuries, he was tended to by paramedics at the scene who would have stopped the bleeding. He declined going to the hospital, but I would hope they at least took pictures of his injuries at the scene before he was tended to by paramedics.

The one part of the video where you can get a decently long look at the back of his head is oh-so conveniently blocked by the ABC banner. Head injuries tend to bleed a lot and you can see one officer looking the back of his head. There is what looks to be a dark spot about the size of a quarter on the back of his melon when he is walking behind the squad car into the building.

There are so many conflicting media reports it's getting to be nearly impossible to distinguish fact from fiction. One media outlet said the cries of help were verified by his parents not to be Trayvon's, yet another outlet reports the cries of help were Trayvon's, while the eye witness also says the cries of help were from Zimmerman.

The DOJ, FBI, special investigators and The Grand Jury will have all the facts and evidence available.
 
I contend it was a tragic accident.

1. Zimmerman followed with the intent only to investigate.
2. Zimmerman was assaulted from behind on his way back to his SUV as he said.
3. Tayvon assaulted from behind out of fear or anger.
4. On the ground, Zimmerman un-holstered his side-arm, dropped the safety and fired one round into Tayvon's chest because he had a reasonable fear that his life was in imminent peril.

sweetiebatman said:
Maybe he didn't think he was in danger of being shot by a maniac :twocents-02cents:

And maybe Tayvon decided he could handle the person following him with his fists instead of 911, instead of asking 'Hey, why are you following me dude?!". And Zimmerman had a surprise for him.
 
Harvrath said:
I contend it was a tragic accident.

1. Zimmerman followed with the intent only to investigate.
2. Zimmerman was assaulted from behind on his way back to his SUV as he said.
3. Tayvon assaulted from behind out of fear or anger.
4. On the ground, Zimmerman un-holstered his side-arm, dropped the safety and fired one round into Tayvon's chest because he had a reasonable fear that his life was in imminent peril.

sweetiebatman said:
Maybe he didn't think he was in danger of being shot by a maniac :twocents-02cents:

And maybe Tayvon decided he could handle the person following him with his fists instead of 911, instead of asking 'Hey, why are you following me dude?!". And Zimmerman had a surprise for him.

I am intrigued as to how, in the first series of events that lead to this "tragic accident" all the blame falls squarely on the dead guy. You might be right but Nothing sits right with me about this whole case.
 
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New information is trickling out every day... Now it has been reported that Zimmerman's weapon was taken by police that night and is being held as evidence. Prior reports didn't even state that Zimmerman was put in cuffs or brought to the police station. The media made it sound like he was released at the scene. Now there is supposedly another witness that is 13 years old.
 
well from the video nordling linked showing an aerial view of the housing complex, there really was no place to hide - which is confirmed by the number of people who called 911 while the altercation was in progress and stated they could clearly see the two struggling, and/or dead Trayvon, from inside their houses. It's an open area, there aren't even fences between the backyards. Maybe he was a ninja?

If I was walking along and some dude seemed to be following me/staring at me in an SUV, then stopped when I stopped to look at him, then got out and followed on foot when I cut through on the footpath I would totally assume he was up to no good. On the other hand, Zimmerman's basis for following Trayvon in the first place as stated to the dispatcher are fucking psycho. He's walking around in the rain....OOOH how suspicious. He's looking around, he must be on drugs! What a fucking nutbag.

Did he seriously claim he got out of his vehicle to check a street sign? Look at the map - in that area of the housing estate there is ONLY ONE STREET! It's the street Zimmerman lives on!!
 
I think people need to show some respect for the deceased. I'm hearing a bunch of crap like "Let's keep in mind that he was suspended from school," (so...he's just a troubled kid who's not worth a damn?) and blah, blah, blah, and not once did I see "R.I.P., Trayvon Martin" in any of those disrespectful posts. Sounds pretty cold-hearted to me.....


R.I.P., Trayvon Martin. My heart goes out to all of those who knew and loved you.
 
Retired Virginia Supreme Court magistrate Judge Robert J. Zimmerman, is his dad.
The lead investigator was over ruled by the Attorney general's office.... shortly after he was brought in.

Sounds a little fishy to me. Zimmerman has a long dirty record of arrests and charges, not the kid he shot.
Dad's a judge... middle of the night the AG walks in and over rules the lead investigator.

If the colors were flipped, the AG wouldnt have answered the phone.
 
sweetiebatman said:
Harvrath said:
I contend it was a tragic accident.

1. Zimmerman followed with the intent only to investigate.
2. Zimmerman was assaulted from behind on his way back to his SUV as he said.
3. Tayvon assaulted from behind out of fear or anger.
4. On the ground, Zimmerman un-holstered his side-arm, dropped the safety and fired one round into Tayvon's chest because he had a reasonable fear that his life was in imminent peril.

sweetiebatman said:
Maybe he didn't think he was in danger of being shot by a maniac :twocents-02cents:

And maybe Tayvon decided he could handle the person following him with his fists instead of 911, instead of asking 'Hey, why are you following me dude?!". And Zimmerman had a surprise for him.

I am intrigued as to how, in the first series of events that lead to this "tragic accident" all the blame falls squarely on the dead guy. You might be right but Nothing sits right with me about this whole case.

Zimmerman, in my scenario, didn't actually do anything unlawful. There is no law about following people in this case. He was Neighborhood Watch, it comes with the territory. People who work in retail do it all the time, they see suspicious people and follow to catch them in the act of shop-lifting.

If Zimmerman was infact walking away and Trayvon assaulted him from behind, it is a crime. Someone walking a way from you, is not a threat. Any use of force against someone retreating is unjustified. The law is crystal clear on this. There have been numerous cases of people shooting assailants who are retreating, and facing criminal charges.
 
Harvrath said:
Zimmerman, in my scenario, didn't actually do anything unlawful. There is no law about following people in this case. He was Neighborhood Watch, it comes with the territory. People who work in retail do it all the time, they see suspicious people and follow to catch them in the act of shop-lifting.

If Zimmerman was infact walking away and Trayvon assaulted him from behind, it is a crime. Someone walking a way from you, is not a threat. Any use of force against someone retreating is unjustified. The law is crystal clear on this. There have been numerous cases of people shooting assailants who are retreating, and facing criminal charges.

If I saw a strange man following me, my first thought isn't "oh maybe that's just the local neighborhood watch guy". I'd immediately think he was a psycho who wants to abduct or hurt me in some way and I'm sure most people would especially kids and teens. I'd be fearing for my life and would do anything possible to get away or defend myself from the dude.
 
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