Was I in the wrong or was she? PVT set as Ticket Show on other site...

[dinnerforbreakfast]

Little perplexed about this but the story goes -

A model I have been visiting pretty often for the last 2-3 months recently had a bunch of regulars leave so her income took a massive dive, she's been stressed and at a loss as to what to do. I enjoyed that she chats, jokes and interacts with members as a whole, not just sitting PMing all the time. She doesn't show much in the room, but will do nude shows in pvt, group or ticket.

For a while she's been taking basically any private requested, many less than 10 mins. I pointed out that it was probably a bad idea to do this. My observations are that in the grand scheme it ultimately will lose her money and followers because if she is constantly leaving the public chat to do short privates, members will get tired and just leave to find other models to interact with and her follower base will decline. I've tried to help her with some ideas to get things back on track.

Anyway, last night she was pretty upset about it all and offered to reduce the tokens/min cost for a private for an hour. I bought some tokens and sat down to have the private and was looking forward to it, thinking I was helping her feel a bit better and have some fun myself. I've enjoyed chatting and always tried to be fun and tip in her room to keep things going.

I start it, she asks me to wait a couple of minutes while she is typing something and I hear a bell chime go off, she had set our private as a ticket show for a measly 60 token entry on another site!

I said "Hang on, I don't think I am very happy about that, why didn't you ask me about this first?" and that it would have been perfectly happy for her to had set it as a private there so people could pay per minute to spy. She got all haughty and ended the ticket show on the other site, saying "Happy now?!" I wasn't, the mood had been shattered so I asked to please end the the private. She did and then came back in tears. I even tipped the tokens I was going to use in the private so she at least got some income for the night. No thanks, just coldness towards me.

I felt kind of deceived because I think she knew I wouldn't have been cool with what she did, but also guilty because she was upset, did I have a point? Am I the asshole here?

I don't know...weird fuckin' day.

 

[MarieElise]

Wow some models are really open. I read stuff here posted by you guys and I'm always like; : even my highest paying member would never get access to that level of private info, nor would they be free and welcome, to be making suggestions to me, like that. That's such a boundary blur situation, in my eyes anyways. Oh well, I guess everyone has different boundaries. I don't think you are in the wrong here.

This whole interaction you describe, is weird and icky to me (because boundaries, like I said), but I don't think you did anything wrong. Is this model pretty new? Been at this a very short time?
I don't want to bash her, just sounds like maybe she's struggling, and made a bad decision.

Then handled it poorly afterwards too.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

Wow some models are really open. I read stuff here posted by you guys and I'm always like; : even my highest paying member would never get access to that level of private info, nor would they be free and welcome, to be making suggestions to me, like that. That's such a boundary blur situation, in my eyes anyways. Oh well, I guess everyone has different boundaries. I don't think you are in the wrong here.

This whole interaction you describe, is weird and icky to me (because boundaries, like I said), but I don't think you did anything wrong. Is this model pretty new? Been at this a very short time?

I think a lot of models get thrown into a room by a studio, and barely told anything about the ins and outs of the job, what to expect or have much guidance at all. So when that initial flurry of members dies down they aren't really prepared to keep the momentum going.

I quite like a bit of openness and appreciate some candour, though of course I wouldn't expect or want a model to tell all. I've even said to some they should be more careful about what they reveal, for their own safety and privacy. Seen too many doxed or stalked and abused by psychopath members.

This particular model is under a lot of stress, so I will somewhat put last nights debacle down to that, though I still feel a bit hoodwinked.

 

[Nigerian Prince]

For a while she's been taking basically any private requested, many less than 10 mins. I pointed out that it was probably a bad idea to do this. My observations are that in the grand scheme it ultimately will lose her money and followers because if she is constantly leaving the public chat to do short privates, members will get tired and just leave to find other models to interact with and her follower base will decline. I've tried to help her with some ideas to get things back on track.

I see this argument a lot but from my observation as well as my own experience, unless you have a large following it's usually better to take the guarantee of a private instead of just hoping to make more in public. And it's certainly possible for models to build up a following of users to take them private regularly.

 

[Wuggie]

For a while she's been taking basically any private requested, many less than 10 mins. I pointed out that it was probably a bad idea to do this. My observations are that in the grand scheme it ultimately will lose her money and followers because if she is constantly leaving the public chat to do short privates, members will get tired and just leave to find other models to interact with and her follower base will decline. I've tried to help her with some ideas to get things back on track.

This can be true at some points, but if she also does not have a lot of tips going on when she's in the public room, it might be required to take those privates.. there can be MANY reasons for this and it's not always black/white.. I do always suggest having a minimum time for privates..

I start it, she asks me to wait a couple of minutes while she is typing something and I hear a bell chime go off, she had set our private as a ticket show for a measly 60 token entry on another site!

This is something I ALWAYS talk to girls about before a private, that I expect anything public to be put into private, or if they can fully turn it off.. I do believe this is a very fair thing to talk about just like any other request before a private.. to me it's NO different than asking if they perform something specific honestly. I will also add I felt SUPER weird at the start bringing this up, because I felt like I was directing how she should run her rooms, but figured afterall I do not want to sit with a odd feeling, in something I spend money on...

I said "Hang on, I don't think I am very happy about that, why didn't you ask me about this first?" and that it would have been perfectly happy for her to had set it as a private there so people could pay per minute to spy. She got all haughty and ended the ticket show on the other site, saying "Happy now?!" I wasn't, the mood had been shattered so I asked to please end the the private. She did and then came back in tears. I even tipped the tokens I was going to use in the private so she at least got some income for the night. No thanks, just coldness towards me.

I felt kind of deceived because I think she knew I wouldn't have been cool with what she did, but also guilty because she was upset, did I have a point? Am I the asshole here?

If she's under a lot of pressure, this might also have brought out this feeling in her, if you have talked nicely for 2 - 3 months and this is not normally how she would act, I would personally let it cool off for a bit and then you could maybe talk about future privates and how you'd expect it to be, that it was a pay per minute thing on other sites etc.. in a nice manner of course

but NO I would say you're not the asshole here.

 

[AussieCosplay]

I don't know what site this is on, but as far as I know...most sites have in their TOS that splitstreaming isn't allowed during PVTs.

So as a model this is risky behaviour, not just that it might lose you your customers, but also as it could result in losing your account too.
It's honestly fraudulent, if someone is specifically paying for 1 on 1 time...that's what they should receive.
If they're cool with allowing a "spycam" or whatnot then that's different...all about consent and getting what you paid for.


-------
I do also want to raise this boundaries thing as well as even if she's telling you about having less income (trustme...we all currently have less than we would if the economy were better). It's important that you don't let it become too important to you personally. Be a friend, tip when you can, but at the end of the day it's her job not yours. You're there to have fun. There are plenty of cam models who won't lie, and who also could use some extra tokens.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

I see this argument a lot but from my observation as well as my own experience, unless you have a large following it's usually better to take the guarantee of a private instead of just hoping to make more in public. And it's certainly possible for models to build up a following of users to take them private regularly.

Yeah I understand there is a balance, I suppose it does depend on the model and theres no one catch-all strategy. It's more that I have seen it happen a number of times now, the member will come in get what they want for 10 mins, spend their $20 and not come back, so aren't converted into regulars.

 

[Wuggie]

I don't know what site this is on, but as far as I know...most sites have in their TOS that splitstreaming isn't allowed during PVTs.

So as a model this is risky behaviour, not just that it might lose you your customers, but also as it could result in losing your account too.
It's honestly fraudulent, if someone is specifically paying for 1 on 1 time...that's what they should receive.
If they're cool with allowing a "spycam" or whatnot then that's different...all about consent and getting what you paid for.


-------
I do also want to raise this boundaries thing as well as even if she's telling you about having less income (trustme...we all currently have less than we would if the economy were better). It's important that you don't let it become too important to you personally. Be a friend, tip when you can, but at the end of the day it's her job not yours. You're there to have fun. There are plenty of cam models who won't lie, and who also could use some extra tokens.

I believe StripChats rule is that it can't be a public stream open while being in private for example, and I can't remember CB having ANY rule about this.. so it could be one of those two.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

This can be true at some points, but if she also does not have a lot of tips going on when she's in the public room, it might be required to take those privates.. there can be MANY reasons for this and it's not always black/white.. I do always suggest having a minimum time for privates..


This is something I ALWAYS talk to girls about before a private, that I expect anything public to be put into private, or if they can fully turn it off.. I do believe this is a very fair thing to talk about just like any other request before a private.. to me it's NO different than asking if they perform something specific honestly. I will also add I felt SUPER weird at the start bringing this up, because I felt like I was directing how she should run her rooms, but figured afterall I do not want to sit with a odd feeling, in something I spend money on...


If she's under a lot of pressure, this might also have brought out this feeling in her, if you have talked nicely for 2 - 3 months and this is not normally how she would act, I would personally let it cool off for a bit and then you could maybe talk about future privates and how you'd expect it to be, that it was a pay per minute thing on other sites etc.. in a nice manner of course

but NO I would say you're not the asshole here.

In this case, perhaps I assumed too much! I actually chat to her on both sites and she knew I had been holding on to a few tokens to join a ticket show on the other one and that I wasn't exactly flush with tokens right now.

Yes, I will give it a bit of time and hope that things cool a bit, she's definitely under a lot of pressure, I do enjoy her company and we have a great laugh most of the time.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

It's honestly fraudulent, if someone is specifically paying for 1 on 1 time...that's what they should receive.
If they're cool with allowing a "spycam" or whatnot then that's different...all about consent and getting what you paid for.

That was the issue I had, the spycam would have been fine, it was that it was advertised as a ticket show on the other site that bugged me and made me feel...used I guess.

Thanks for the rest of your reply, I will try to remember your words in future

 

[mika_kedi]

It looks like I'm in a minority here but I don't see much difference between a ticket show (assuming that she would still not take directions from or interact with enyone else but you and basically treat the ticket holders as spies) and spying in this situation. You are still paying for a private show (at a discounted rate as you said! she would have to perform a longer show to earn what sho would normally earn in a shorter time = more work, less money for her, better deal for you), she wasn't broadcasting the show as public on another site, whoever wanted to watch would have to buy a ticket. I suppose you felt cheated because of a ticket price, 60 tokens would give them maximum of 10 minutes spying at a lower rate and you mentioned it was supposed to be a longer show, but since you got a discount on your private show why wouldn't she give a discount to potential spies as well?
What in this situation exactly feels so unfair to you?

 

[KingMarti]

IMO when you negotiate / pay a discounted rate you will never get the same level as if you paid the actual price. That difference in price between the normal rate and the discounted rate needs to be made up somewhere. Speculating here but I would guess that the only reason a discount was offered on the pvt was because the expectation was that she would make the difference back from the ticket show, it's a situation where everyone wins, you get the pvt you wanted at a lower rate, the tokens generated by the ticket show on the other site help boost her page ranking and the model dosnt loose out (well maybe, there's still the risk that she dosnt sell any tickets for the ticket show and then just has to take the hit on the discounted pvt). Could this have all been discussed before hand? Yes. But since neither of you brought it up it seems that what she does on other sites wasnt enough of an issue for it to be discussed before hand.

 

[misterical]

I can see both sides of this argument to be honest. I'd probably be a bit put out if I was the member but I can also see why the model did it, especially if she was struggling. As @mika_kedi says, it's not much different from a spy show so long as the other members are not directing the action. I think the only thing wrong here is the lack of communication.

And as to @dinnerforbreakfast point about the initial flow of traffic, I've really only seen it on Chaturbate because that is the only time I've been around when a model has had the "new" tag. While it seems like a good idea to help establish a userbase, from what I saw it was two weeks of a model being utterly overwhelmed and unable to cope with the demand followed by a completely barren period where they had next to no visitors and started to doubt themselves and their abilities. Certainly with the model I visit, it kind of crushed her confidence for a bit. I'm not sure what the solution is but the whole "feast then famine" approach seems shaky at best, especially for models who previously had no experience on busy token sites.

The thing to consider about pvts as well @dinnerforbreakfast is that while on the surface they might not look lucrative on a per minute basis, often that is just the base rate to move behind the curtain. Tipping for actions then takes place inside the private but doesn't show in the public chat, so a 10 minute private might be more lucrative than you think.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

I appreciate people's replies here and I of course see both sides to it, I did in fact try to talk to her about what the private would be like and all she said was 'sexy show' and kinda rushed me into it without any clear answers. With her making it a ticket show, people tip and then make requests which she would have followed, splitting her attention, so...that's not a private, why not invite me to a ticket show in the first place? I don't often take models private but I think the main thing is, you get the models whole attention, no?

As you say misterical, there was a lack of communication. At any rate I'll try to chat to her a little about it when she comes online next and patch things up.

from what I saw it was two weeks of a model being utterly overwhelmed and unable to cope with the demand followed by a completely barren period where they had next to no visitors and started to doubt themselves and their abilities.

This is EXACTLY what has happened. She's upset that people don't want to chat to her or spend time there anymore. At first her privates were 6tokens/min, so you get someone with 100 tokens, no extra tips etc taking her private for a few minutes over and over, like a conga line...

I think that initial period was wasted and she's struggling now because of it. Hopefully she can get over this lull and find her confidence again, because she is fun to hang out with.

 

[Vixxen81]

Had it been me I would have banned you immediately for the audacity to try to control my finances. Full stop.

Tell her to sign up here and we'll help her.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

Had it been me I would have banned you immediately for the audacity to try to control my finances. Full stop.

Tell her to sign up here and we'll help her.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Vixxen81]

Thanks for your input!

I'm dead serious. I cut guys like you left and right and it improves my stream and my mental health. I'm not here to negotiate or worry about your feelings when it comes to how I make my money.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

I'm dead serious. I cut guys like you left and right and it improves my stream and my mental health. I'm not here to negotiate or worry about your feelings when it comes to how I make my money.

I know you are and I was expecting a comment from you and for it to be...abrupt.

If that is how you run your room and it works for you, great!

 

[AussieCosplay]

IMO when you negotiate / pay a discounted rate you will never get the same level as if you paid the actual price. That difference in price between the normal rate and the discounted rate needs to be made up somewhere. Speculating here but I would guess that the only reason a discount was offered on the pvt was because the expectation was that she would make the difference back from the ticket show, it's a situation where everyone wins, you get the pvt you wanted at a lower rate, the tokens generated by the ticket show on the other site help boost her page ranking and the model dosnt loose out (well maybe, there's still the risk that she dosnt sell any tickets for the ticket show and then just has to take the hit on the discounted pvt). Could this have all been discussed before hand? Yes. But since neither of you brought it up it seems that what she does on other sites wasnt enough of an issue for it to be discussed before hand.

I straight up offer my regulars a discount (I would never say yes if they asked...only if I offer), but at the same time that's because I value their support and they're genuinely less work than someone new, I already know what they like and all that so it's easier for me.

I definitely agree that you only get what you pay for!

I really have to stress again that breaking TOS isn't worth it for a few extra dollars, neither is lying to a regular...it's a great way to make money problems even worse.

If she didn't think OP was paying enough to go solo...she really should have just not offered it t that price, explained that it wouldn't be as intense as full price, or even suggested a spy show to subsidise his spend up front.

OP definitely is emotionally entangled here but at the same time, lying to someone who's paying you is just not a good plan. I'd be pissed off if someone did that to me.

(Obviously there some providing a fantasy that requires fact fudging, but this isn't like saying you're horny when you're not...it's more like buying an entire movie theatre viewing on discount and then they leave the door open and let people watch even though they said to you it was a private screening)

 

[misterical]

This is EXACTLY what has happened. She's upset that people don't want to chat to her or spend time there anymore. At first her privates were 6tokens/min, so you get someone with 100 tokens, no extra tips etc taking her private for a few minutes over and over, like a conga line...

This is what happened with the model I visit. Endless privates at a low token rate (not set by her). Eventually she decided that they get a fairly vanilla show for that rate. Anything more explicit results in her pointing to the tip menu. But that new period was crazy. Over 150 in the room and lots of privates. The feeling I got was that a lot of these members were old hands and were happy to exploit her new status and lack of experience on the platform to their advantage. She soon cottoned on.

The drop in numbers was hard though. She just totally fell off a cliff and it really battered her because she felt it was something she was doing (or not doing).

 

[MarieElise]

I think a lot of models get thrown into a room by a studio, and barely told anything about the ins and outs of the job, what to expect or have much guidance at all. So when that initial flurry of members dies down they aren't really prepared to keep the momentum going

That sucks. If they are going to take a cut they probably should provide some guidance and support (imo anyways). Legally they probably don’t, but ethically they should imo. At least for brand new models who are lost.

This particular model is under a lot of stress, so I will somewhat put last nights debacle down to that, though I still feel a bit hoodwinked.

That sounds fair to me.

 

[Vixxen81]

I know you are and I was expecting a comment from you and for it to be...abrupt.

If that is how you run your room and it works for you, great!

Direct. I stand by it. I don't need to write 18 paragraphs to get my point across that I consider people who do this as loss leaders and I don't have time for it. I hope one day she gains the same confidence.

She's clearly new, she needs guidance and it shouldn't be from you but from people who actually know what they are doing and have years of success.

And all of us are under extreme stress.

 

[misterical]

I actually think that the missing piece of this puzzle is the exact meaning of "Private" on the site in question. Most sites with Private that I visit allow other users into the room during the show. If you want 1-2-1 @dinnerforbreakfast then you need to be thinking "Exclusive". Once you get your head round the idea of other users being in the room then does it really matter if they came from the same site or a different one? More power to her. She's guilty of nothing but a failure to communicate it properly. I certainly wouldn't object to it if I was asked. As long as it didn't interfere with my experience and I wasn't doing cam to cam (where people could hear my voice) then I'd rather she was making more money. It's no skin off my nose. It's not like I can see the guys standing there.

 

[MarieElise]

Technically if you go by the tos none of the shows on these sites are considered truly private ever. It’s written into the small print.

ETA; But I do think it’s probably a better business move to talk to someone upfront about it if you purposefully plan on broadcasting their “private”. Seems more ethical. Unless it’s a customer you don’t care if they return anyways.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

That sucks. If they are going to take a cut they probably should provide some guidance and support (imo anyways).

It certainly appears to be nice studio with clean, interestingly presented rooms. I believe they treat her well and don't seem to control her. Maybe they are a bit lacking when it comes to giving the models a little more direction or support with their shows...I can't really say for sure.

 

[MarieElise]

It certainly appears to be nice studio with clean, interestingly presented rooms. I believe they treat her well and don't seem to control her. Maybe they are a bit lacking when it comes to giving the models a little more direction or support with their shows...I can't really say for sure.

Again (just one of my opinions, and I do tend to have strong ones), but it’s sad the bar is that low. It’s clean and they don’t control her. Imo those things shouldn’t even be on the table as positive points, those should be a given. But, realistically I get it that they are on the table, because the bar is so abysmally fucking low.

Reminds me of research studies; well the language is nice and they aren’t trying to trick us. Again, low bar. Abysmally low. That should be a given.

I do agree with Vixxen that pointing her over here could be super helpful.

 

[misterical]

If I know a model well, and the suggestion isn't going to impact my enjoyment, then I'll always happily go along with anything that makes her more money. I've gone private on other platforms which offer a greater percentage, then moved back to the original platform for public tipping. Sometimes the difference in percentage can be quite significant while the cost to me is exactly the same. You'd have to be a bit of a tosser not to do that if asked. Sometimes members think their interaction with a model needs to be an instructional monologue and not a conversation where you can agree something that is mutually beneficial.

And more fool the guys sitting wanking with no control over the action

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

Most sites with Private that I visit allow other users into the room during the show.

Are you thinking of the ability to 'spy' on a private show? That's pretty normal and I would expect that unless I had paid more for an exclusive private and C2C.

The difference here as I have said was that she was inviting others in that would interact, tip for activities and chat on a DIFFERENT site, which isn't a private...it's a group or ticket show.

 

[misterical]

Are you thinking of the ability to 'spy' on a private show? That's pretty normal and I would expect that unless I had paid more for an exclusive private and C2C.

The difference here as I have said was that she was inviting others in that would interact, tip for activities and chat on a DIFFERENT site, which isn't a private...it's a group or ticket show.

Well that and the fact that on pages like Streamate other people can just join the private. In fact, I think on Streamate they join the private at the same per-minute rate as you so presumably they should get an input in the direction of the show. Someone will clarify from the model's perspective in a moment I'm sure.

 

[MarieElise]

Well that and the fact that on pages like Streamate other people can just join the private. In fact, I think on Streamate they join the private at the same per-minute rate as you so presumably they should get an input in the direction of the show. Someone will clarify from the model's perspective in a moment I'm sure.

What you said is correct about Streamate privates. Not exclusives though; only privates.