Why I no longer tip - one member's experience

[nzhere]

Which will lead to a proliferation of $20 premiums who save 1 token and keep it forever so they can get into those rooms.

I doubt MFC would do this, though. It would be a bad business move.

It would keep guests and basics out of the BEST rooms- the kinds of rooms that tend to convince guests and basics to become premiums.

A 20$ premium is a premium, they already converted from basic /guest even if they have 1 token in credit. To get into those rooms.

Guest and basics could still enter rooms. It would be the models CHOICE to enable the OPTION rather than a 24x7 basic/guest lockout on some rooms.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Yes by definition even if you are a whale tipper in one room, if you sit and watch other girls for free for ages without tipping, you're still a freeloader, at least in their rooms.

It's like you get people who do bad things/bully people, yet are really lovely to certain people. Does being nice to their family cancel out all the other things they do? No, it doesn't.

I know a guy who's been with his girlfriend for 6 years, and he now cheats on her constantly. His excuse is "Well I was faithful the first 4 years" as though this is somehow a big excuse and means he's now let off for being a cheating bastard the rest of the time.

People always want to justify themselves, and everyone is the hero of their own story. Whatever people do they will always have a defence/excuse/opinion. Not many people genuinely believe or think they're bad people.

I sometimes check out girls rooms as a guest/basic, for totally different reasons to most men, and I don't tend to be interested enough to lurk for periods of time either. I don't feel if a model came to watch my room that they'd be freeloading though, that is the only time I feel it's a little different.

And also yes, if you're freeloading you're a third class citizen. Second class would be those who show a little appreciation, and 1st would be those who tip whatever they can/are loyal to me. I do look down on freeloaders, however nice they are, I cannot help it. Guests and basics are a bit like flies at my horse's yard. Always there, can be annoying, but I ignore for the most part, I have very little interest in them, and any interest I do have is not flattering. They are insignificant, and so are other freeloaders. If they want my opinion to change they have the opportunity to change it, but until then I'm not going to chase them just in case!

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

OK, now you have gone and done it. I was perfectly happy to enjoy my popcorn and watch the show. But now the thread has taken a turn and some salient points have been made. Now I can't help myself.

Yep, I have been a freeloader. Not habitually or necessarily with intent. It just happened. As a previous poster indicated, I also had guilt about it. I'm not proud of it.

Maybe I had not tokens, nor was in a position to purchase any at that point. I was going to log into MFC and drop by a couple of my favorites rooms to just say "Hi". Lo and behold, none were online at that time. Well, you know, I was already there, checked out some random rooms, came across a public show, stayed for a few minutes, didn't tip, that makes me a freeloader in the technical sense of the term.

.

I must be masochistic (fortunately I'm in the right forum to help with this fetish ) to revive this thread . I share your feelings but I am feeling less guilty because what hasn't been discussed is the only ways that MFC provides for preventing Freeloaders are absurdly expensive. I'd argue that this probably true on absolute basis and definitely true on a relative basis to other adult entertainment. True private at 80 tokens/min is $400/hour (Assuming you buy 900 token for $75 and tad cheaper for Platinum members), the model gets $240/hour. Now $240 hour is what a good shrink or lawyer gets if they are lucky. I am not stupid enough to encourage cam girl wrath by saying that is tougher to be a good lawyer or shrink than a cam girl. I have watched enough bad, good, and great cam shows to know that their is skill in the profession. But can we all agree that training period to become a top cam girl requires considerably less time, less money, and the training a hellva of a lot more fun :mrgreen: than becoming a lawyer or doctor? Groups at 10 tokens/min are less but at $50/hour aren't exactly cheap, and many girls don't do them. Obviously Cam girls, like lawyers and shrinks have a lot of non billable hours.

So imagine you're an MFC member who doesn't want to be a a freeloader. Once a month he forks out $75 and get his 900 tokens (I've been averaging twice that since joining MFC this summer). One option is he goes to a models room has an 11 minute private and spends his 900 tokens that way. If he visits her room several times a week and doesn't tip for the rest of the month is he a freeloader? If his favorite model takes the month off or stops camming, should he feel guilty checking out other girls rooms looking for next months recipient of his 900 tokens?

Another option is he goes to several different models rooms contributes to the countdown. Assume the models follow MFC rules (one of my favorite models Nicole Riley actually does this bless her heart) and don't do public cum shows. He then watches the final cum show in group his 900 tokens is good for an hour or so (90 minutes max) If he is lucky he can see one or two shows a week for $75 and probably spend four to five hours a month interacting with lovely MFC models. Is participating in a group show or two a month sufficient tipping that you can watch her show without feeling like a freeloader? The third option, which I am pretty sure is the most common one is that guys tip 10,20, for countdowns sometimes 50-200 for a raffle or contest or content.

Several models have made a convincing IMO argument that camming should be treated like premium porn and price accordingly. So lets compare $75 a month to other types of legal adult entertainment, it is 3 times as much as most porn websites, on many sites $75 gets you 6 months membership. $75 is 5 times as much as a month Playboy TV, (which actually shows hardcore films unlike the magazine or website). 75 buys you a ticket for a fully nude Vegas show It is a (fairly cheap) night at strip club (maybe a lap dance, a couple of drinks, dancer tips). It seems to me from a adult entertainment perspective an hour at strip club should be worth more than an hour of watching a girl on a cam. It is certainly potentially more lucrative for the cam girl. $ My fundamental question is how many hours of interactive sex shows should a guy who spends $75/month on tokens expect; 15 minutes, and hour, 2, 5, 10, 25, 75? .

It seems me that fundamental problem is that MFC doesn't provide a mechanism that enable model to entice customers to spend modest amounts of money for a higher quality product.
The gold shows at Streamate are good example of how to do this. (Personally, I dislike the whole SM experience and despise that models only get 35% of my money). On the other hand when I am watching a top 20 model do her cum show with, with my closest 1,000 internet buddies, I really don't think the experience is much different than watching porn video on my PC. So I don't feel any need to do more than a token 10 tip and in the future maybe not even that as I get more jaded. I save my tokens for the models with lower cam score who maybe only have 20-100 guys in the rooms. They are the ones who answer my questions and response to my requests, cause this is a different experience that I don't get watching a porn video.

However, the OP said that he was on MFC primarily to masturbate. So he really has no incentive to tip. So if MFC wouldn't provide an incentive than the models need to figure out a way of doing. Calling members who are not tipping 3rd or 2nd class citizen or freeloading scum and attempting to guilt them into tipping is one approach. I just question over the long term is it a particularly smart approach. Not being a model I don't have a clue what would be a good way of incentives non tipping guys to change their behavior, but I would suggest that positive reinforcement works better than negative.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

If a member tips in my room one night I do NOT expect him to tip every single other night. It's nice if they contribute at least once a week if they watch me etc, it really depends on how much they can and feel comfortable contributing. If a member regularly coming into my room, as in whenever I'm online and I can see they have tokens yet they never tip/very occasionally drop 20 tokens but then clearly spend it on another girl, well that is kind of rude. Learn to hide your tokens! Sure you're waiting for your favourite to come on, but you've still been in my room for 3 hours!

I personally think if you're a member who buys 900 tokens per month and tips 20 tokens per night to different models (about 600 tokens) you should hide your tokens. It's kind of like waving a bone in front of a dog with no intention of giving it.

Everyone does search round models, check out top models rooms etc and does a bit of freeloading.
There is "I just can't tip at the moment but normally tip in this model's room" and "I am not intending on tipping this model" or even if someone's sussing out how much they like the model.
I know it sounds kind of bad but there is a difference between freeloading in a top model's room who's having no issue completing her countdowns and a model's room who's struggling to make a countdown. Neither is good at all, but there's something a little sick to me going into a girls room who's having problems keeping the room going and working her heart out, with the sole intention of watching a free show/having a wank, watch her do a dance or something, have a wank over it and then bugger off.

One of the things I love about mfcs is that my members can tip one night but can still watch me for free other nights! I love that! I also like that people can choose how much they pay, so if someone's fairly well off they can obviously tip more, but if someone's fairly poor they can tip what they want!

A lot of members also haven't met the right girl. One of my tippers has been on mfc for years, for the conversation over anything else, but has tipped me more in the last two months than he's tipped for the few years he's been coming on the site.
It's also a different attitude in a way. There's "I am not going to ever tip because I can get it for free" or an openness to tipping, that you are willing, you just haven't had someone who you really felt you wanted to tip that much for.
Member's have said when I've got 600 tokens left until cumshow "oh, you've got ages left, I'll come back later" (I actually hate these guys, oh, i'll come back for the free show, why the fuck would you say that?!) but I still explain that 600 tokens is barely anything on my cumshow countdown, and that a lot of the time that'll go in a matter of minutes. Yes to a total freeloader 600 tokens seems like a great deal, but to me I know it's a countdown I can easily make and also that there are regular's who'll tip it in one go.

 

[HarmlessSquirrel]

If a member tips in my room one night I do NOT expect him to tip every single other night. It's nice if they contribute at least once a week if they watch me etc, it really depends on how much they can and feel comfortable contributing. If a member regularly coming into my room, as in whenever I'm online and I can see they have tokens yet they never tip/very occasionally drop 20 tokens but then clearly spend it on another girl, well that is kind of rude. Learn to hide your tokens! Sure you're waiting for your favourite to come on, but you've still been in my room for 3 hours!

I personally think if you're a member who buys 900 tokens per month and tips 20 tokens per night to different models (about 600 tokens) you should hide your tokens. It's kind of like waving a bone in front of a dog with no intention of giving it.

Everyone does search round models, check out top models rooms etc and does a bit of freeloading.
There is "I just can't tip at the moment but normally tip in this model's room" and "I am not intending on tipping this model" or even if someone's sussing out how much they like the model.
I know it sounds kind of bad but there is a difference between freeloading in a top model's room who's having no issue completing her countdowns and a model's room who's struggling to make a countdown. Neither is good at all, but there's something a little sick to me going into a girls room who's having problems keeping the room going and working her heart out, with the sole intention of watching a free show/having a wank, watch her do a dance or something, have a wank over it and then bugger off.

One of the things I love about mfcs is that my members can tip one night but can still watch me for free other nights! I love that! I also like that people can choose how much they pay, so if someone's fairly well off they can obviously tip more, but if someone's fairly poor they can tip what they want!

A lot of members also haven't met the right girl. One of my tippers has been on mfc for years, for the conversation over anything else, but has tipped me more in the last two months than he's tipped for the few years he's been coming on the site.
It's also a different attitude in a way. There's "I am not going to ever tip because I can get it for free" or an openness to tipping, that you are willing, you just haven't had someone who you really felt you wanted to tip that much for.
Member's have said when I've got 600 tokens left until cumshow "oh, you've got ages left, I'll come back later" (I actually hate these guys, oh, i'll come back for the free show, why the fuck would you say that?!) but I still explain that 600 tokens is barely anything on my cumshow countdown, and that a lot of the time that'll go in a matter of minutes. Yes to a total freeloader 600 tokens seems like a great deal, but to me I know it's a countdown I can easily make and also that there are regular's who'll tip it in one go.

I think you should always hide your tokens. Do you show everyone what's in your wallet? Probably you don't, even to friends. In fact, I've heard a number of models flat out tell the guys in their rooms to hide their tokens. One, as Isabella says, it's not going to make a good impression if you clearly have a lot of tokens but aren't giving any out in the room you're in. It is like saying, I could tip you, but I'm not going to. Two, there are rooms where you'll be making yourself a target for a hard-sell. Personally, I hate that sort of thing. I guess if you're fine with that, then go ahead, but that totally puts me off. You should decide what you're comfortable spending, not let someone else decide for you. Thirdly, I don't want how I get treated to be based on how rich or poor I appear to be. Probably most models are not like that, but there will be some. The only situation I can think of in which you'd need to show your tokens is if you're asking a model who doesn't know you for a private. Then, I guess you might need to show her you have enough that you're not wasting her time.

Yes, I agree that any variant of the "I'll come back when you're doing what I want to see" scenario is obnoxious. The one I always see is "I got here just in time " at the beginning of a show, followed by no tip. If you feel this way, just say nothing -- you'll look like much less of an ass. "Just on time" along with a good tip I would assume is just fine with the models, although I'm still not sure who's supposed to be excited that you're just on time.
As I've said before, due to MFC's marketing rhetoric, I don't really have a problem with people who don't tip, but I do think the polite thing for them to do would be to not call attention to the fact. IMO, they should not be asking for anything ever and certainly not be talking about tokens -- what's already there in free chat is available to them, but that's it.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I think you should always hide your tokens. Do you show everyone what's in your wallet? Probably you don't, even to friends. In fact, I've heard a number of models flat out tell the guys in their rooms to hide their tokens. One, as Isabella says, it's not going to make a good impression if you clearly have a lot of tokens but aren't giving any out in the room you're in. It is like saying, I could tip you, but I'm not going to. Two, there are rooms where you'll be making yourself a target for a hard-sell. Personally, I hate that sort of thing. I guess if you're fine with that, then go ahead, but that totally puts me off. You should decide what you're comfortable spending, not let someone else decide for you. Thirdly, I don't want how I get treated to be based on how rich or poor I appear to be. Probably most models are not like that, but there will be some. The only situation I can think of in which you'd need to show your tokens is if you're asking a model who doesn't know you for a private. Then, I guess you might need to show her you have enough that you're not wasting her time.

Yes, I agree that any variant of the "I'll come back when you're doing what I want to see" scenario is obnoxious. The one I always see is "I got here just in time " at the beginning of a show, followed by no tip. If you feel this way, just say nothing -- you'll look like much less of an ass. "Just on time" along with a good tip I would assume is just fine with the models, although I'm still not sure who's supposed to be excited that you're just on time.
As I've said before, due to MFC's marketing rhetoric, I don't really have a problem with people who don't tip, but I do think the polite thing for them to do would be to not call attention to the fact. IMO, they should not be asking for anything ever and certainly not be talking about tokens -- what's already there in free chat is available to them, but that's it.

Agree agree agree. Only time tokens should be shown is if you're planning on taking girls private who you don't know that well. But quite often what does happen, is a guy asks to take you private, you see he has over 800 tokens and accept basically on those grounds. He takes you in for say 300 tokens worth. That really pisses me off. I actually think members should state pretty much exactly how long they want a private for before asking the girl. I get sometimes you don't know exactly, but you will know whether you're waiting for her to get naked and start playing to drop out, or if you want to watch her cum, I think that should be said first. I'm sorry but I would never make a man wank, let him expect he's going to cum, get him all excited and then drop out. Sure I could carry on, but I'd be online as away which is bad for camscore, I'm not a machine, I can only cum a certain amount of times in a night, and they do wear me out a bit, so that's not really an option.

I think some guys do buy tokens, don't spend any and let the girls see them to try and get attention etc. Or even just like making the girls feel bad for themselves by showing they have the money but don't want to tip. I'm not the most money grabbing out of cam girls but when I see someone has tokens, whether a regular or not, I will attempt to extract them if I get the opportunity to. It is my job and how I'll get paid. There's that line between pointing someone in the right direction and being pushy though, and it can be a very fine line. A lot of members who tip me do need a little persuasion, not much, but a little implication to get them interested. It's no different to selling something in a shop. If you're window shopping/browsing, being offered help by sales assistants can seem pushy and almost make you feel a little harassed, whilst if you are there for the purpose of buying, the help offered can be very useful, friendly and polite.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

If a member tips in my room one night I do NOT expect him to tip every single other night. It's nice if they contribute at least once a week if they watch me etc, it really depends on how much they can and feel comfortable contributing. If a member regularly coming into my room, as in whenever I'm online and I can see they have tokens yet they never tip/very occasionally drop 20 tokens but then clearly spend it on another girl, well that is kind of rude. Learn to hide your tokens! Sure you're waiting for your favourite to come on, but you've still been in my room for 3 hours!


I know it sounds kind of bad but there is a difference between freeloading in a top model's room who's having no issue completing her countdowns and a model's room who's struggling to make a countdown. Neither is good at all, but there's something a little sick to me going into a girls room who's having problems keeping the room going and working her heart out, with the sole intention of watching a free show/having a wank, watch her do a dance or something, have a wank over it and then bugger off.

But a guy who takes you private once a month or longish group once month isn't freeloading correct?
My tokens are set to show a range high medium low, that way if I do ask a model about private she knows that I have enough.

I completely agree on the "morality" of freeloading in a popular models room vs a struggling model. My theory is if I am in room with 1,000+ folks, if everyone contributed 10 tokens that is 10K tokens more than adequate pay. So I am contributing my fair share of course the reality is that <5% are contributing a dime and if we all only put in 10 that is only 500 token and the system would breakdown. It is simply cruel to do the same thing in camscore 1000 model's room. Right now I am still susceptible to appeals to fairness even in a popular room.
The problem is the ratio of tipping members to non tipping is so low. I can easily see myself switching from thinking those freeloaders are assholes for not contributing, to thinking man what an idiot I am, paying for shit that 98% of the guys are getting for free.

I must stop by your room some time to hear bugger off and wank with an English accent.

One of the things I love about mfcs is that my members can tip one night but can still watch me for free other nights! I love that! I also like that people can choose how much they pay, so if someone's fairly well off they can obviously tip more, but if someone's fairly poor they can tip what they want!

Member's have said when I've got 600 tokens left until cumshow "oh, you've got ages left, I'll come back later" (I actually hate these guys, oh, i'll come back for the free show, why the fuck would you say that?!) but I still explain that 600 tokens is barely anything on my cumshow countdown, and that a lot of the time that'll go in a matter of minutes. Yes to a total freeloader 600 tokens seems like a great deal, but to me I know it's a countdown I can easily make and also that there are regular's who'll tip it in one go.

Just FYI, I often do this especially if the room discussion is lame, or the models is playing a game I am not interested in. At least in my case you aren't losing tokens. I'll come back and the tip during or after the cum show. The rational is very simple. I may contribute 20 or 30 tokens for a countdown. When the show is over I feel I have done my part. When I didn't contribute to the countdown I'm inclined to tip 50 or buy a video even at full price. Basically I am tipping you for services rendering, rather than in anticipation of future services.
In the states some restaurants automatically include a tip in the bill. In those cases I never include more, but if they let me tip after the fact (and most do). I very seldom tip less than 15% and tip more for very good service.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Haha now I get it! Lol!

I must stop by your room some time to hear bugger off and wank with an English accent.

Had forgotten about that!

I do wish sometimes people would share the tokens out more evenly, tonight for example, I did pretty well, but thanks to one person who tipped a lot, and then another who tipped the 850 remaining in my countdown, a few other people tipped, but not loads. In fact at one point I was dancing and realised although the room count was over 200, there were no more prems in the room, 25 out of the room count were prems, 145 were guests. and about 3 had been tipping, the bulk going to one guy.

If you're going to come back when it's a show, fair enough, but don't say it! it's saying "yeah so when you've not got your legs open I find you too boring/not interesting enough to waste my time with. I'll come back when you're on your back" What girls enjoy that?!

The guys who take me private once a month.... hmmm.... well, that depends. If they take me in a private of 500 tokens once a month but hang out in my room/try pming me a lot the rest of the time, then yeah I see them as a bit of a freeloader, with privates really it's a transaction, once the private is done we're even. If they take me in a long private once a month it's a little different because taking me in a long private is going above and beyond my expectations, plus you get to know someone better, it goes beyond being a simple transaction, i.e. I strip then wank, cum and then they leave. It's much more personal when you spend time getting into it.

A lot of my members don't like the idea of going private, or even group, they want to tip me in the room because although they like the dancing/completing a countdown aspect, the tips are still mainly to make me happy/smile. A lot of them feel uncomfortable doing things like privates, and don't like taking me away from the public room where I might make more tips. Let's face it, being in a room is a lot more relaxed. But yeah I think that there being so many freeloaders around atm is scaring off members who do tip, or persuading those on the edge not to or to tip less, or making those who tip large amounts resent how many happily sit there getting it for free. Many don't care that much, but it is still an issue. Models care because we get close to our members and don't like having those we care about rinsing their bank accounts for us when no one else contributes, but mfcs doesn't care about that at all, they just care about the over all makings.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I do wish sometimes people would share the tokens out more evenly, tonight for example, I did pretty well, but thanks to one person who tipped a lot, and then another who tipped the 850 remaining in my countdown, a few other people tipped, but not loads. In fact at one point I was dancing and realised although the room count was over 200, there were no more prems in the room, 25 out of the room count were prems, 145 were guests. and about 3 had been tipping, the bulk going to one guy.

If you're going to come back when it's a show, fair enough, but don't say it! it's saying "yeah so when you've not got your legs open I find you too boring/not interesting enough to waste my time with. I'll come back when you're on your back" What girls enjoy that?!

I see where you are coming from, but we may just agree to disagree. When I've done this it is for a variety of reasons, but generallyI have something else I should be doing beside perving on internet, the model is struggling to hit her countdown, and I have generally contributed consistently lots of 10 token tips and am tired of the freeloaders. The model has said in PM or even publically I am about to log if I am not getting tips. So I say I'll be back and help you out as way of encouraging them to stay and try and hit their countdown. (My personal opinion is the ones who are the most successful are the most persistent and work the longest). It is also protects me from contributing say 200 of 1,000 countdown only to have the model log out of frustration.

But I completely agree on the need spread the tipping out more evenly. I was in room tonight where there were 9 guys who all tipped >300 (including myself) and 2 maybe 3 who were over 1,000 and I think 20+ who tipped something. It feel better both for myself and the model to have multiple tippers, even if there were 700 freeloaders. The room you describe is far more common and I guess is sustainable as long as MFC continue to find whales to be harpooned.

The guys who take me private once a month.... hmmm.... well, that depends. If they take me in a private of 500 tokens once a month but hang out in my room/try pming me a lot the rest of the time, then yeah I see them as a bit of a freeloader, with privates really it's a transaction, once the private is done we're even. If they take me in a long private once a month it's a little different because taking me in a long private is going above and beyond my expectations, plus you get to know someone better, it goes beyond being a simple transaction, i.e. I strip then wank, cum and then they leave. It's much more personal when you spend time getting into it.

A lot of my members don't like the idea of going private, or even group, they want to tip me in the room because although they like the dancing/completing a countdown aspect, the tips are still mainly to make me happy/smile. A lot of them feel uncomfortable doing things like privates, and don't like taking me away from the public room where I might make more tips. Let's face it, being in a room is a lot more relaxed. But yeah I think that there being so many freeloaders around atm is scaring off members who do tip, or persuading those on the edge not to or to tip less, or making those who tip large amounts resent how many happily sit there getting it for free. Many don't care that much, but it is still an issue. Models care because we get close to our members and don't like having those we care about rinsing their bank accounts for us when no one else contributes, but mfcs doesn't care about that at all, they just care about the over all makings.

Remember that a monthly 500 token private cost a member $50 and takes you 8 minutes, nets you $25 and if you do them at the beginning or end of a show hardly disrupts your traffic. (I am assuming this is non fetish private) It is interesting that is your perspective, because I'd bet a member who visited your room 2-3 times a week who always made a 25 token tip for the 1st countdown and 25 token tip with nice thank you the end of the night, and wrote you two or 3 short PM would be count as good regular, especially if he contributed to the room conversation. It would seem to me that a 500 token a month regulars would be worth having, regardless of how you get the tips but than I am not a model (IANM)

I am no fan of privates mostly cause of they are bloody expenses but also because they aren't relaxing. I also dislike them because they take away from the social aspects of MFC and reduce it to a wank festival. But mostly I think privates encourage unhealthy obsessions. If I guy is spending $500 or $1000/month in privates with a model he is going to be almost certainly develop expectations. For every model who is refreshingly honest like yourself, and reminds customers that "I am a fantasy girl on the net, we are never going to meet, and even if we did you are old enough to be my father, I am not dating you", there is several who actively encourage it with date raffles, be your girlfriend, and dozens who don't discourage it. It is also nice to hear that some models care about depleting members banks accounts.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I see where you are coming from, but we may just agree to disagree. When I've done this it is for a variety of reasons, but generallyI have something else I should be doing beside perving on internet, the model is struggling to hit her countdown, and I have generally contributed consistently lots of 10 token tips and am tired of the freeloaders.

Then we're talking about completely different situations. And still, how can you disagree? You haven't been in my position when someone has said something like that. You know how it feels from your perspective. Fine if you say "right got to go for a bit but will be back later" That's cool, but openly not tipping and then coming in the room and saying "I'll come back when you're doing a show/closer to doing a show" is a piss take. To be honest whether you're tipping or not you shouldn't say things like that, sure you can think/feel them, but there is absolutely no need to tell a girl that!

I'd bet a member who visited your room 2-3 times a week who always made a 25 token tip for the 1st countdown and 25 token tip with nice thank you the end of the night, and wrote you two or 3 short PM would be count as good regular, especially if he contributed to the room conversation.

This member quite possibly wouldn't even get onto my friendslist. But, there is a difference, and that is that if a member tips in the room they are paying for the room experience, not one on one treatment. If someone takes me in a private, they're buying that amount of time. There are no strings attached afterwards. If that member is pushy with off cam pms etc, comes to my room a lot, annoys me, anything, they're not worth that 500 tokens. If they pm me to say hello when I'm in my room but don't continue trying to have a chat/sex chat and then also talk in the room, cool, they'll stay on my friends list.
Pms for me are pretty strictly for those who have tipped in the past and want to plan a show/ask about my videos, bit of small talk if you want to ask about those things, or if you are a regular tipping member/are particularly generous and I get on with you. If you buy one video a month and try pming me every day when I come online but not on cam, then yes it's tokens, but you're wasting time.
Yes if a member takes me in a 500 token private every month yet doesn't demand any one on one attention, and doesn't come into my room much then it's all cool, or even if I know full well they struggle for money and spend whatever they can on me and I get on with them then I'm happy having them in the room, but they're there at my invitation.
Otherwise if someone watches me every day I'm online then it's like £1 each day I'm online. I wouldn't give someone tipping 15 tokens each day to countdown a free 8 minute skype show at the end of the month, so really why should I be thrilled that they get daily entertainment because they've paid for 8 minutes of my time/so they could have a wank?

I love mfcs, but god, sometimes members do expect a hell of a lot from your tokens! Because of the free element a lot of members get a sense of entitlement, especially if they've contributed in the past. Thing is, it seems all very wonderful on the members side, but there's a reason not every single girl in the world is jumping at this opportunity! My friends know what I do and know full well I make £30-£150 per hour by not doing all that much, yet why are they not signing up? They'd rather slave for hours on end and earn less than what I make in an hour in a day because this job is so undesirable to them. That's why cam girls are paid so much and should be paid. If you like cam girls, feel thankful they exist! Because if people stop paying for porn/these kind of services one day, or more girls start signing up and the paycheque gets lower, everyone will leave.

 

[AmberCutie]

While I may not use the term 'freeloader', I do think there is a difference between someone who tips during public chat once in a while, and someone who pays for a private once a month.

As Isabella said, a person tipping in public chat is chipping in for the girl's time in public chat. A person going private is paying for 1 on 1 attention in private chat.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I'm inclined to agree. It's like when you go and hang out in a pub all day. If you buy a drink or a meal, you're paying for a service/product and you're getting what you paid for. It's the same thing with prvates/groups. If you want to partake in one of those you have to pay for it, lest you won't get it. Tipping in free chat is akin to tipping the barstaff/waitresses/waiters. Technically, you don't have to do it, but if you're sat in a bar for hours on end, being waited on by the staff and at the end of it, you haven't tipped even a little, even though you're not obligated to do that, you likely won't have ingratiated yourself to the staff. :twocents-02cents:

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I am not entirely sure what my goal is with this post, other than to say that models shouldn't condemn members for freeloading when freeloading is the rational way to approach MFC. Instead, they should blame their fellow models for allowing this behavior to become acceptable. I'm reminded of the caution many mothers pass on to their daughters, 'no one's going to buy the cow if you give the milk away for free'.

Rather than condemn freeloaders I think the models on this site should condemn those amongst them who offer free shows that disincentivize members from paying for content.

The OP's language is a bit harsher than I'd use but I agree with his basic point. Let me put a positive spin on it, I am a premium member, help me understand what benefits I get by continuing to purchase tokens. I've got all the MFC benefits, changing font colors, a special lounge,changing member names without having to sign up again, and I am underwhelmed.

The pub analogy would apply if tipping was the norm on MFC it isn't. (It is worth remembering that tipping is not the cultural norm for many places in the world, and a place like Vegas is a crazy outlier where people expect tips for doing anything.) In Isabella's room only 1% were tipping, only 12% had ever tipped this seems to be a typical ratio on MFC.

Now there are psychic benefits, associated with spending tokens, making a pretty girls smile and hearing her thank me. The group applause for closing a topic etc. Some tangible ones; PM privileges, videos and pictures, (although often the videos are simply recording of MFC shows). But for the most part I see the same cum show as I guy who hasn't paid a dime.

Frankly it is disheartening to hear that a guy who spends a $50 a month with a model for a private, but does no other tipping is judged more harshly than a basic, guest, or hidden/0 token premium, and the guy who tips 500 tokens a month, barely rates getting onto the PM a list and receives nothing beyond the same show that basic gets.

Now there are two ways of encouraging people to pay for premium service. The most common is to provide additional services that improve the experience for the person and/or make them feel special. The second way is to reduce the service to the people paying bargain rates. Most companies do the first, but the airlines have actually done a good job on the second. Airlines make flying coach so uncomfortable, charge you for everything from checked bags to using the toilet that lots of people will pay 2-5x as much for business or 1s class.

I love mfcs, but god, sometimes members do expect a hell of a lot from your tokens! Because of the free element a lot of members get a sense of entitlement, especially if they've contributed in the past. Thing is, it seems all very wonderful on the members side, but there's a reason not every single girl in the world is jumping at this opportunity! My friends know what I do and know full well I make £30-£150 per hour by not doing all that much, yet why are they not signing up? They'd rather slave for hours on end and earn less than what I make in an hour in a day because this job is so undesirable to them. That's why cam girls are paid so much and should be paid. If you like cam girls, feel thankful they exist! Because if people stop paying for porn/these kind of services one day, or more girls start signing up and the paycheque gets lower, everyone will leave.

To a large extent I am not arguing that premium member necessarily deserve more, but that people who don't pay deserve much less. Right now MFC is dependent on tiny fraction of the population (aka whales) paying an absurd amount, 1-2% like myself paying $50-200/month, ~10% spending $10-$50 and everybody else paying zip. Frankly MFC is in the business to maximize by profit, and they have decided that policing their shows to prevent public cum shows isn't worth the trouble. I don't mind paying $75/month I do mind feeling like I am sucker for paying it.

Humm, 1400 online @ MFC, 1100 Streammates,200 on Chaturabe, and god know how many on other sites. I am not too worried about running out of camgirls even if the average paycheck gets cut by 75%, times are tough and roughly 60 million girls turn 18 every year and increasingly large fraction have access to the internet


Interesting discussion.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Frankly it is disheartening to hear that a guy who spends a $50 a month with a model for a private, but does no other tipping is judged more harshly than a basic, guest, or hidden/0 token premium, and the guy who tips 500 tokens a month, barely rates getting onto the PM a list and receives nothing beyond the same show that basic gets.

Really not sure where you got this idea from... :?

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Frankly it is disheartening to hear that a guy who spends a $50 a month with a model for a private, but does no other tipping is judged more harshly than a basic, guest, or hidden/0 token premium, and the guy who tips 500 tokens a month, barely rates getting onto the PM a list and receives nothing beyond the same show that basic gets.

Really not sure where you got this idea from... :?

From Isabella's quote

Otherwise if someone watches me every day I'm online then it's like £1 each day I'm online. I wouldn't give someone tipping 15 tokens each day to countdown a free 8 minute skype show at the end of the month, so really why should I be thrilled that they get daily entertainment because they've paid for 8 minutes of my time/so they could have a wank?

I am not saying Isabella is wrong. I am saying from the perspective of the guy forking over $50 month, he is treated exactly as the guy who spends $0, so why spend the $50?

 

[mynameisbob84]

[I am not saying Isabella is wrong. I am saying from the perspective of the guy forking over $50 month, he is treated exactly as the guy who spends $0, so why spend the $50?

Because he gets $50 worth of private shows that the person spending $0 doesn't get.

 

[LadyLuna]

Isabella is one model. She runs her show how she runs it. In a room where most people pay $50 a day, $50 a month is going to seem like nothing (not saying that's how much Isabella gets, just putting it in perspective).

When I was on MFC, everyone who paid got exactly the same treatment. If I recognized you, you got the same treatment almost as someone who paid, unless that recognition was very vague, or had an iffy feel as though I didn't quite like something you had done previously. I didn't do public shows because I don't like the idea of a few people paying and everyone getting to see it.

Please don't act like Isabella speaks for everyone. She only speaks for herself.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Being able to direct a live human being to satisfy you sexually is an expensive service, as it should be. Honestly, I can't cum in 500 tokens unless I'm having a hair trigger kind of day and I already know EXACTLY what the guy wants. IMO those tokens would be better spread out over a few videos or some tipping.
But, that's just like, my opinion man. I don't go private unless I know I'm going to enjoy myself properly.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

[I am not saying Isabella is wrong. I am saying from the perspective of the guy forking over $50 month, he is treated exactly as the guy who spends $0, so why spend the $50?

Because he gets $50 worth of private shows that the person spending $0 doesn't get.

I was referring to the guy who tipped 500 tokens a month spread out over 2-3sessions per week. He doesn't get an 8 minute private, maybe he gets PM privilege but basically gets the same experience as the guy giving $0.

 

[Shaun__]

[I am not saying Isabella is wrong. I am saying from the perspective of the guy forking over $50 month, he is treated exactly as the guy who spends $0, so why spend the $50?

Because he gets $50 worth of private shows that the person spending $0 doesn't get.

I was referring to the guy who tipped 500 tokens a month spread out over 2-3sessions per week. He doesn't get an 8 minute private, maybe he gets PM privilege but basically gets the same experience as the guy giving $0.

If he was tipping for show countdowns he would be getting the show, or if he was tipping for smiles he would be getting smiles. You do not go to a store and bitch that you spent $50 dollars on food, and the owners refuse to follow you back on twitter. You got the food.

 

[UncleThursday]

Being able to direct a live human being to satisfy you sexually is an expensive service, as it should be. Honestly, I can't cum in 500 tokens unless I'm having a hair trigger kind of day and I already know EXACTLY what the guy wants. IMO those tokens would be better spread out over a few videos or some tipping.
But, that's just like, my opinion man. I don't go private unless I know I'm going to enjoy myself properly.

And you know the hat needs to be there if I ever take you private, JJ. :lol:

Now, to be on topic...

I've only been in Isabella's room once. And she was logging off like 3 minutes after I showed up and said hi. So I don't know how she does her room.

But, I really only stopped in to say hi from knowing her from here.

I've visited a few models from here just because of here. Amber and JJ are among them. But, mostly, I come in, say hi, maybe hang out for a few minutes, then skee-daddle. I've only tipped Amber a few times, and mostly it was because she had the cootie killing page up (which is damn fun, so even if I'm only sticking around a few mins, I like to hurt a cootie ). But I'm not in Amber's room every day, or normally for a long time when I do stop in. Same for JJ, in the terms of I have only been in there a few times, and only tipped a few times. But, again, I'm normally only in for a few minutes, say hi, tell her the hat is sexy, have a laugh or two, then skee-daddle. So, I'm not in JJ's room every day, or for a long time when I am.

And it is nothing against those women. They both seem genuinely fun when I do stop in and say hi. But, as I said in my previous post, I tend to multiperv on models that I have known for a lot longer, so dividing my attention up even more is probably not the best idea. :lol:

But I'd hope neither of them would see me as a freeloader if I pop in, say hi, and then pop out. I'm obviously never going to be some of their biggest tippers, and with how many models I already am regular with, probably not a room regular. But I don't mind popping in and saying hi when I see them every now and then. And I hope they don't mind it when I do that, as well.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Frankly it is disheartening to hear that a guy who spends a $50 a month with a model for a private, but does no other tipping is judged more harshly than a basic, guest, or hidden/0 token premium, and the guy who tips 500 tokens a month, barely rates getting onto the PM a list and receives nothing beyond the same show that basic gets.

Really not sure where you got this idea from... :?

Um yeah, I don't see how you got this idea either. Basics and guests don't even get onto my judging list they are so below relevance. Sure maybe one day they'll become a prem, or maybe they're actually secretly awesome models coming to check me out, but as guests that is what they are, they can't currently tip and there's no point thinking about it.

I'm also not saying I judge people who take me in a private once a month harshly, just that I don't see why they should get special treatment for the rest of the month. I mean sure if someone takes me in a private over 1000 tokens a few times a month, that's slightly different, it goes a bit more above and beyond. Like Jolene said, she can't even orgasm in 500 tokens worth. For me it's minimum effort on the members part, it's not a particularly personal experience with the person for me, it's just a quick wank. If you get me to really enjoy the experience/enjoy your time then yeah you might get a bit more attention.

I would also like to say that I agree with everything you guys said! Like Luna said this is how I feel, not every model feels this way. I'm not a top earning model either, but it is my full time job, £15 a month (which is what I get from a 500 token private) is really not something I'm going to jump up and down about (bear in mind tipping that in the room would probably lead to me being tipped more). It all adds up, but I have other things on my mind. For many models though it's either not their full time job, so that extra money is great, or they have a very low camscore and again, a 500 token private is a godsend (or something to that extent).
I give my regulars quite a lot of attention while I'm offline, sometimes I'll have a quick chat with someone who takes me privates now and then, but the relationship is different. I see tippers as friends, guys who only take me private, short ones at that aren't friends, they're just buying a product.
It's not that I wouldn't enjoy going private and don't encourage it, but if someone wanted more attention they'd do better dropping their 500 tokens in the room for some videos, helping me with my countdown, helping me/everyone have a good night.
Never forget either that in a girls room yes often only a few people are tipping, but usually there are also 5+ people in the room who have tipped a lot the previous nights. Kind of like a rotation. I like members tipping in the room because it helps out my other tippers, if you come into my room most nights, allow all the other members to tip for the show, and then when it's your chance you whisk me away in private it's not fair on the other prems. Honestly I feel that you kind of owe them, it's your turn to help them out. Another idea is buy 900 tokens, tip 350 in the room one night and then take the girl private for 550 worth. This is if you enjoy room time and one on one attention, if you just want a wank, then that's all cool!

 

[bob]

I'm also not saying I judge people who take me in a private once a month harshly, just that I don't see why they should get special treatment for the rest of the month.

i couldn't agree more.....guys who think that way, actually, are a little pathetic to me.....the kind of attention that they're looking for doesn't come easy in the real world (except when they were like five)....it sure as hell is ludicrous to expect it in a model's room.

 

[JoleneBrody]

[I am not saying Isabella is wrong. I am saying from the perspective of the guy forking over $50 month, he is treated exactly as the guy who spends $0, so why spend the $50?

Because he gets $50 worth of private shows that the person spending $0 doesn't get.

I was referring to the guy who tipped 500 tokens a month spread out over 2-3sessions per week. He doesn't get an 8 minute private, maybe he gets PM privilege but basically gets the same experience as the guy giving $0.

500 tokens worth of tipping each month is awesome! Even spread out over the month in 10 token increments, I would consider that guy a swell guy... unless of course he's a dick face. 500 tokens isn't worth putting up with a dick face.

The guy who tips 500 over the month and has a good attitude would be welcome into my room with open arms and made to feel at home. Not only do I notice when a member shows appreciation but my fellers do too. A feller who never tips, even a little, is not likely to be welcomed into the social circle of my room. For many, the social aspect of MFC is why they keep coming back.

If you think the guy tipping 500 over the month gets the same experience that the guy tipping 0 then you sir, forget what makes us human. Empathy. Yes, maybe this is a dying emotion and our species is doomed but for now that's what separates the good from the not so good, the ability to feel. I would feel good about tipping for the show I'm enjoying, I would not feel good about not tipping and just take take taking. Did you forget that a naked woman took time from her day to entertain YOU! Is that not enough? Is knowing you were a gentleman and did your part to keep her coming back not enough? Face it, if everyone thought the way you explained, every camgirl would be gone. Sucks for you.

 

[Kradek]

Did you forget that a naked woman took time from her day to entertain YOU! Is that not enough?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm also not saying I judge people who take me in a private once a month harshly, just that I don't see why they should get special treatment for the rest of the month.

I used to have a regular who thought that if he takes me private, I will then give him custom photos of my ass for free. :roll: I explained that you can't "double-dip" and really think that tokens spent in private will get you x tokens worth of content.

You TIP separately for custom photos...not expect them for free because you think you "did me a favor" in going private.....(if you wanna "do me a favor," tip me because you like and appreciate me).

He's done this before (and another model had a similar experience with him). He's spent tokens on custom photos and then would occasionally message me, asking me to hook him up with some free pics since he went private or since he spent x tokens before on custom pics. Gee, if only I could walk into Victoria's Secret and ask "Since I just spent $40 on a push-up bra in here, can you hook me up with a bunch of FREE panties...since I'm a repeat customer?" :roll:

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Yesterday there was a guy in my room who's name was "tipscostmoney" how many points did he have? 20. How long had he been a member of mfcs? 2 and a half years. I just saw the name and was like "oh dear" "tips cost money"..... well duh! So does pretty much everything in life!

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

500 tokens worth of tipping each month is awesome! Even spread out over the month in 10 token increments, I would consider that guy a swell guy... unless of course he's a dick face. 500 tokens isn't worth putting up with a dick face.


If you think the guy tipping 500 over the month gets the same experience that the guy tipping 0 then you sir, forget what makes us human. Empathy. Yes, maybe this is a dying emotion and our species is doomed but for now that's what separates the good from the not so good, the ability to feel. I would feel good about tipping for the show I'm enjoying, I would not feel good about not tipping and just take take taking. Did you forget that a naked woman took time from her day to entertain YOU! Is that not enough? Is knowing you were a gentleman and did your part to keep her coming back not enough? Face it, if everyone thought the way you explained, every camgirl would be gone. Sucks for you.

That is good to know, and ya I figure an asshole would need to spend 5,000+ tokens before he'd be worth putting up with.
I agree JJ, empathy and all that is important and the social aspects of MFC is what sets it apart. It is worth it to me but clearly not a large percentage of folks who watch MFC.

Yesterday there was a guy in my room who's name was "tipscostmoney" how many points did he have? 20. How long had he been a member of mfcs? 2 and a half years. I just saw the name and was like "oh dear" "tips cost money"..... well duh! So does pretty much everything in life!

Pretty much everything, except for a watching beautiful and talented woman give impressive sex performance. Those you can watch for free or $20 gets you a lifetime pass on MFC.
So the reason Isabella you should be concerned about guests and basics is because there presence makes people like myself and the OP feel stupid for paying for something we can get for free.

I caught the end of a countdown just watched 2 hot US blonde girls (Camscore ~3k) play with dildos and make out for about 25-30 minutes. The good news is that they got 60 plus tips, the bad news of the 1300 guys in the room me and 7 guys tipped once and one guy tipped 50+ times at 20 tokens. The other 1300 guys didn't tip at all. From the prospective of the models they made $60+/hour certainly a decent living. The whale got whatever satisfaction he gets. However, what about those 8 of us of who tipped 20 tokens, I have never been in the room before and will almost certainly never socialize there. Compared to the whale who tipped > 1000 our 160 tokens doesn't matter. So why bother as I said the positive feeling about doing the right thing is balanced by feeling like a sucker.

All of the analogies, to cars, groceries, and clothes are flawed. All of those are physical products and they cost something to make. There is a real cost with giving one away. Cam girls are selling a digital product and it costs fractions of a penny more for 10 guys to see your performance than one guy, or even 100 or 1000. The cost of giving a picture set is the time it takes your PM/or email that password period.

The right analogy is digital products particular entertainment ones. Has anybody NOT pirated/illegally downloaded, a song, a movie, a TV show, a computer game, used a shareware program without paying for it? If you are under 40, you'll be the first person I've "met". Now ethically pirating all of these are at least as bad as freeloading, plus doing so is illegal.

Now some of you maybe too young to remember the world before iTunes and app stores. Music piracy was rampant prior to iTunes. iTunes made easier for people to get music than trying to download from Napster and pirate sites, but the real breakthrough was the pricing. Turns out a lot of people are willing to spending $.99 to buy a song, but not willing to spend $15 for album. We have seen same phenomena with Netflix and movies if you can get unlimited streaming movies for $10 why bother to torrent them. Same thing is true for smartphone apps if they only cost $1-$3 why bother to pirate them. For computer games and some video games, Steam has revolutionized the business. You can buy a game when it is first released for $50 or wait 6-12 months and buy it for $5-10, significantly reducing the incentive for pirating.

The problem as I said in my first post all of the pricing on MFC is way too expensive and it in part it has to be because 90+% of the folks pay nothing. It seems to me we would all (models and paying customers like myself) be better off if instead one whale paying for 1,000 guys to watch the show and 8 us paying a bit more than our fair share. 100+ guys watched the show but all chipped in for the show. One simple way to do this would be reduce the token cost of groups from 10 tokens a minute to 1 token a minute that way it would only cost a guy $2 (like an app) to watch a 25 minute show. But in order for this to work models would have restrict themselves to maybe only show boobs and a few flashes otherwise the race to the bottom starts.

 

[sweetiebatman]

I completely disagree with your assessment, I have never, chatted to, got to know and got along with "In the Ghetto" By Elvis Presley, nor have i expected to say hello after when i play those songs

There is NO hard and fast rule for members and camgirls, Im sure there is pressures on both sides

 

[JickyJuly]

Why should any dude be able to watch a 25 minute show for $2? A token a minute is a nickel for the model. That's crazy talk. To make the same amount as a private she'd need to keep 60 people in her group show. The fact that there are girls who do public shows and dudes who sit around not paying anything, doesn't mean EVERY girl should lower her expectation and every dude should get on the being an entitled piece of crap wagon. It's not about having compassion or being humane. We're not begging for food on the corner. We're offering a service. It's not a service you need. It's a service you want. So pay for it or STFU. "Men" who whine aren't worth 1, 10 or 1000 tokens in my opinion. There will always be women who expect to be paid for their time, and no matter how many douchenozzles show up, there will always be men who understand the worth of interactive porn without whining.