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Incel (Involuntary Celibacy)

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Also I'd like to add that I've spent a couple of hours yesterday on reddit and few subforums there trying to understand what reddit is and what discussions are going on there - which I've never did before - and I have to say I found these forums very toxic, full of entitlement, bitterness, revenge from both all the parts (men/women) involved. It's a rabbit hole personally I don't want to dive in and it's not the way I live my life.

Speaking of Reddit, part of me is a little glad they got rid of their S U G A R D A D D Y section. Not just because the guys on there were full of shit and not legit, but also because the guy who was the moderator of that section (screen name 'SugarDaddy') was a total fucking asshole. Like not even a decent human being at all.

I remember trying to give him a heads up via private message about one of the members on there who's a scammer sugar daddy who'd scammed me and at least one other girl from there, and this moderator prick's like "So? What the fuck do you want me to do?" And starting talking shit to me. Wow...attitude? I gave the prick a piece of my mind, and he starts calling me "fat bitch...dumb bitch...fucking thot, etc." I fired back at him (via PM), and that's when he decided to ban me from the S U G A R D A D D Y section altogether, and message me "Enjoy, cunt."

Prior to that, I'd seen the way he'd spoken nastily to other women on there...even removing some of their posts when they said something to him that he didn't like. Of course he went back and deleted those posts of his real fast when he knew I was getting ready to attempt to report him to Reddit.
 

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Speaking of Reddit, part of me is a little glad they got rid of their S U G A R D A D D Y section. Not just because the guys on there were full of shit and not legit, but also because the guy who was the moderator of that section (screen name 'SugarDaddy') was a total fucking asshole. Like not even a decent human being at all.

I remember trying to give him a heads up via private message about one of the members on there who's a scammer sugar daddy who'd scammed me and at least one other girl from there, and this moderator prick's like "So? What the fuck do you want me to do?" And starting talking shit to me. Wow...attitude? I gave the prick a piece of my mind, and he starts calling me "fat bitch...dumb bitch...fucking thot, etc." I fired back at him (via PM), and that's when he decided to ban me from the S U G A R D A D D Y section altogether, and message me "Enjoy, cunt."

Prior to that, I'd seen the way he'd spoken nastily to other women on there...even removing some of their posts when they said something to him that he didn't like. Of course he went back and deleted those posts of his real fast when he knew I was getting ready to attempt to report him to Reddit.
I hope these fake daddies don't flock into discord bdsm/kink groups, because I see a lot of male users with the dom+daddy tag, comparing to the recent past. I am very suspicious and never accept direct dms from them. they could be easily like any crazy incel
 

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Also I'd like to add that I've spent a couple of hours yesterday on reddit and few subforums there trying to understand what reddit is and what discussions are going on there - which I've never did before - and I have to say I found these forums very toxic, full of entitlement, bitterness, revenge from both all the parts (men/women) involved. It's a rabbit hole personally I don't want to dive in and it's not the way I live my life. Now, it's friday, jjtp, and I'm going out, see you here in the next days. I'm always down to share my thoughts.

For what it's worth you get out of reddit what you put in. If you go looking for toxicity, you will find toxicity. Not every sub is like that though. Many are nice and helpful and good groups of people who don't allow the toxic bull.
 
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I posted this on another forum. One of the small number of women on the forum, thought this was trolling/hoax.

What do you all think. I want to believe she's right but IDK.

 

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I posted this on another forum. One of the small number of women on the forum, thought this was trolling/hoax.

What do you all think. I want to believe she's right but IDK.

Fake af. It’s too “perfect” to be real. Also no way someone could take photos of her at work and still surprise her the next day; you can easily tell where the photos taken from and parking lots aren’t so big he could go unnoticed. But yeah it hits all my “sure, Jan” buttons, except they didn’t applaud at the end.
 

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Thanks for everyone's replies. I have had some time away from this forum and any online interactions involving too much female opinion lately due in no small part to some links/ posts in this thread... I officially went MGTOW even though had unofficially been so for quite a few years.
As it turns out 'monk' was the final destination for me; no sexual interaction (i.e. I don't mean 'going monk' for self improvement purposes). The last 'red pill' was quite an odd feeling of sadness, relief, and acceptance; I didn't feel any anger towards women or society in general.
I can say that as a result things are working out well since the life change; which is a good thing as there is no going back to the way things were.

Any questions about MGTOW feel free to hit me with them while I am around.
 

Gen

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I can say that as a result things are working out well since the life change; which is a good thing as there is no going back to the way things were.

What is the benefit in speaking in absolutes? Like declaring yourself MGTOW instead of just being single and independent but considering the possibility of life changing one day. I’m not asking in a snarky way, just never really understood it.
 
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What is the benefit in speaking in absolutes? Like declaring yourself MGTOW instead of just being single and independent but considering the possibility of life changing one day. I’m not asking in a snarky way, just never really understood it.
I have to admit, I'm curious as well. To me, MGTOW statement just seems like another iteration of "No Ma'am" from "Married with Children". And, like anything, labels tend to be limiting more than people realize.

Admittedly, I've skimmed over much of this thread and find it a bit interesting. Sure, there's issues between the genders. But, to be honest, any time you have two people together there's bound to be some kind of problem, at some point in time. However, I can't see blaming all of one particular demographic (sex, age, what-have-you) for any particular problem. I'm single, and have been for many years. Shit, last time I went on a date was probably 2015? I don't hold it against anyone, not even myself since I have a busy schedule and I honestly don't miss the whole dating thing.

I personally just don't get this whole blame game that so many seem to want to do.
 

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What is the benefit in speaking in absolutes? Like declaring yourself MGTOW instead of just being single and independent but considering the possibility of life changing one day. I’m not asking in a snarky way, just never really understood it.

I can at least understand the rejection of "the possibility". While I love the company of women, I have to say that "the possibility" had been a profound source of anxiety for me. I do better as a person with thoughts of romance removed from my life.

I have to admit, I'm curious as well. To me, MGTOW statement just seems like another iteration of "No Ma'am" from "Married with Children". And, like anything, labels tend to be limiting more than people realize.

Admittedly, I've skimmed over much of this thread and find it a bit interesting. Sure, there's issues between the genders. But, to be honest, any time you have two people together there's bound to be some kind of problem, at some point in time. However, I can't see blaming all of one particular demographic (sex, age, what-have-you) for any particular problem. I'm single, and have been for many years. Shit, last time I went on a date was probably 2015? I don't hold it against anyone, not even myself since I have a busy schedule and I honestly don't miss the whole dating thing.

I personally just don't get this whole blame game that so many seem to want to do.

Yeah, that's the stuff that bothers me. No matter where I look where these groups and their labels are concerned, it takes no digging at all before the misogyny and toxic masculinity becomes apparent. Choosing to live a life alone most definitely does not mean one has to make an enemy of all women.
 
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I can at least understand the rejection of "the possibility". While I love the company of women, I have to say that "the possibility" had been a profound source of anxiety for me. I do better as a person with thoughts of romance removed from my life.

Unfortunately, some people just don't do well with others. Whether it be in general, or in a romantic relationship. You seem to understand this aspect of you.


Yeah, that's the stuff that bothers me. No matter where I look where these groups and their labels are concerned, it takes no digging at all before the misogyny and toxic masculinity becomes apparent. Choosing to live a life alone most definitely does not mean one has to make an enemy of all women.

I don't see it as just men having this towards women, and that wasn't my statement. It's in all aspects of life. Regardless of sex, age, religion, skin colour, etc. People are segregating themselves from others, primarily out of intolerance for others. People seem to think the world has moved forward. While in many aspects, it has. I think in many of the key aspects of life, it has actually gone backwards. People are much more isolating themselves, and segregating to what they feel they can identify with and the hatred the world is showing is growing.
 

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Yeah, that's the stuff that bothers me. No matter where I look where these groups and their labels are concerned, it takes no digging at all before the misogyny and toxic masculinity becomes apparent. Choosing to live a life alone most definitely does not mean one has to make an enemy of all women.

I can only speak for what I've seen on Reddit, but guys in MGTOW subs spend a shocking amount of time bitching and whining about women. I thought the whole point of the "Going their own way" idea was to not focus on/care about women anymore, rather than hating on them day in and day out. I definitely understand the sentiment of just not wanting to focus on trying to date and just focusing on enjoying your life, I've done that since I was a teen, because I'm not super interested in dating and enjoy being single. But the way dudes tend to go about it, on Reddit at least, seems pretty contradictory.
 
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I can only speak for what I've seen on Reddit, but guys in MGTOW subs spend a shocking amount of time bitching and whining about women. I thought the whole point of the "Going their own way" idea was to not focus on/care about women anymore, rather than hating on them day in and day out. I definitely understand the sentiment of just not wanting to focus on trying to date and just focusing on enjoying your life, I've done that since I was a teen, because I'm not super interested in dating and enjoy being single. But the way dudes tend to go about it, on Reddit at least, seems pretty contradictory.

From what i gathered through observation and experience, when you're an individual who has an irrational hatred for something, it's very easy to revert back to hating no matter how hard you try to divert focus elsewhere. There will be triggers that set you off quite easily, even when you least expect it. Sometimes those thoughts just enter your brain out of nowhere. When that hate consumes you that badly, it's hard to escape it.
 
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Incels, yeah that's a thing I think I only heard of recently. Right after the Canada thing. Way back in high school I was the stereotypical quiet kid, a few male friends, one or two female acquaintances and never a girlfriend or date during high school. And I can say I had an incel type thought now and again back then, but luckily I'm not a terribly bad looking guy, so after going off to college and losing some weight thanks in no small part to selling my soul to Uncle Sam (turns out the fucker just wanted me for my body) anyway, lost some weight and long story short, "incel" no more. So I grew out of that shit but I do understand the thought process and I totally get that it is primarily about self pity, that's why they flourish as a community, they LOVE the validation of that self pity that they get from other incels. You see it any time in a culture that sees itself as a victim, regardless of whether they are victims or not. That sweet sweet validation that "Yes! You are right! It's not YOUR fault, it's them, they did this to you!" It's an easy drug to get hooked on and hard to kick. I have no sympathy for any of them, none at all. Life sucks but you do what you can to make it better or you lie down and wait to die and these fuckers are waiting and it's saddening and disgusting to see them lash out at others because they can't see that they are their own worst enemy and their own problem.
 

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What is the benefit in speaking in absolutes? Like declaring yourself MGTOW instead of just being single and independent but considering the possibility of life changing one day. I’m not asking in a snarky way, just never really understood it.
Firstly I am not 'single', it is a bit of a shaming term but an understandable comparison.
Life always changes, I wasn't talking of absolutes. To go back from where I am now would be a major jump backwards, I have no interest in jumping back into servitude. My relationships with women and society in general are far more satisfying now that it has lost its sex appeal; that is all that has really changed.

My previous post was actually a sad joke about going back as impossible because my sex drive has been gone since going MGTOW (How unfortunate would it be if I wanted to go back).
I went from a very high sex drive (release at least once a day); gone without for perhaps a week once or twice, to nothing at all. Nothing but the morning I should say, all fantasy life is just gone, this was the extent to which I understood the philosophy [Believed in for most of this audience].
The feeling was a mixture of quiet sadness for the lost pleasure/ memories of pleasure (no anger for me) and that feeling of getting to the beach/ out into nature: Then the sadness passed quickly. Have recently wondered if this free feeling is what it is like for women when it comes to men?

Choosing to live a life alone most definitely does not mean one has to make an enemy of all women.
This is true. I started as someone who believes in equality and I still do. From my red pill perspective I see women and men as being still trapped by misandry. The red pill philosophy sees misandry as like an engine always pushing in the one direction, male behaviour including misogyny you can think of as attempting to hold back or slow this push. There are good reasons for this historically (romantic love and the protection/ care of women ) but in modern society it is unnecessary (won't include unwanted but we are getting there). Personally I'd rather get out of the way let the engine reach the end of the line and work on creating our new male roles from what remains of those no longer needed. This is in essence what MGTOW is, leaving the broader relationship to find a better one or perhaps none at all. For those still on the train this is fine you won't notice us gone and we won't be there to stop you.

I enjoy and have kept all my relationships with women in my life, the only real change negatively is that I won't accept much talk of matchmaking or any shaming language for being 'single'. On the positive side I can have much less superficial friendships with women since the change; which would end if I went back to being 'single'.

Actually the biggest change has been work/ lifestyle changes. I am looking to cut one more day off my working week now that I don't need the income... I like my work so I won't drop it completely but can always do less.
 
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Firstly I am not 'single', it is a bit of a shaming term but an understandable comparison.

I enjoy and have kept all my relationships with women in my life, the only real change negatively is that I won't accept much talk of matchmaking or any shaming language for being 'single'. On the positive side I can have much less superficial friendships with women since the change; which would end if I went back to being 'single'.

I don't get this. How is "single" a shaming term? I consider myself single, yet have no interest in dating. My female friends are just that: friends. I have no desire to sleep with them, or really anyone in particular either. It just isn't a priority, nor has it really ever been.

But, I also am one who doesn't believe in labels either. I think far too many people try to find a label to slap on so they can associate themselves with something. IMO, it's a kind of self-segregation. Which, in many ways, causes more harm than good.
 

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On the positive side I can have much less superficial friendships with women since the change; which would end if I went back to being 'single'.
Is that a positive thing in your case?

Women have told me they prefer the superficial version of me. Something about my deep intimate personality either makes them cry, or get really pissed off.
But, I also am one who doesn't believe in labels either. I think far too many people try to find a label to slap on so they can associate themselves with something. IMO, it's a kind of self-segregation. Which, in many ways, causes more harm than good.
I agreee wholeheartedly.

What is shaming about the term single?
Gen why are you encouraging this shit?
 

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I don't get this. How is "single" a shaming term? I consider myself single, yet have no interest in dating. My female friends are just that: friends. I have no desire to sleep with them, or really anyone in particular either. It just isn't a priority, nor has it really ever been.

But, I also am one who doesn't believe in labels either. I think far too many people try to find a label to slap on so they can associate themselves with something. IMO, it's a kind of self-segregation. Which, in many ways, causes more harm than good.
What is shaming about the term single?
MGTOW is not exactly a label, more a philosophy; consider it the end of the red pill journey. The term 'single' is a way to shame men to go back to the way they were (for women 'single' is more a positive/ negative mix depending on their place in society). Using 'single' is a way to avoid the single and not interested group. A feminist example would be labeling a woman 'a tease' or 'prude', it may be true but the label comes with all the other manipulative baggage. Labels can be powerful (negative and positive) so use the right one because people will always generalize or group people together.
I found that the biggest change in my friendships with women is that I don't worry about catering to their more entitled views and perspectives, honesty comes super easy, I am relaxed, confident, and much more social. I have always enjoyed how political women tend to be, I need some people I can talk to in this way.

Is that a positive thing in your case?

Women have told me they prefer the superficial version of me. Something about my deep intimate personality either makes them cry, or get really pissed off.
Lots of red pill guys like to 'game' women by being superficial, many still believe that women like sex/ love/ companionship in the same way that they do. Genuinely opt out of this role for a while and you will see the difference in these current friendships (platonic and obviously non-platonic).

Social capital is important to women sharing emotion draws upon that so 'superficial' is capital neutral. Personally I can't do superficial, it bores me, so when it comes to women I commit to the capital neutral thing and that it will stay that way. Women don't owe me the energy of finding me people to hook up with, they can't count on my protection, and I won't be trading my status/ wealth/ sexuality/ seed. Everything else is open for discussion, due to my love of psychology and ideas it is usually solely on those types of things with women friends.
Hope this answers the question for you.
 
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Gen

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MGTOW is not exactly a label, more a philosophy; consider it the end of the red pill journey. The term 'single' is a way to shame men to go back to the way they were (for women 'single' is more a positive/ negative mix depending on their place in society). A feminist example would be labeling a woman 'a tease' or 'prude', it may be true but the label comes with all the other manipulative baggage.
Single is a descriptor, not a label, and it’s used for both genders equally. Calling a man single is in no way comparable to calling a woman a tease or a prude, lol. I also think your interpretation of how men and women are perceived when they’re called single is very skewed.
 
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MGTOW is not exactly a label, more a philosophy; consider it the end of the red pill journey. The term 'single' is a way to shame men to go back to the way they were (for women 'single' is more a positive/ negative mix depending on their place in society). Using 'single' is a way to avoid the single and not interested group. A feminist example would be labeling a woman 'a tease' or 'prude', it may be true but the label comes with all the other manipulative baggage. Labels can be powerful (negative and positive) so use the right one because people will always generalize or group people together.

Sorry, but this sounds like a complete copout for avoiding feeling scorned, used and mistreated by women. Almost seems like one who follows this MGTOW hogwash would dive into a diatribe about why they aren't with anyone and will do everything they can to avoid stepping into a puddle of the word "single" as they dance around their feelings.. Single means one. Doesn't mean shit about whether you're available, chasing after women. Or, if you wear a chastity belt for various reasons. Nor does it have anything to do with how people, or yourself, perceive your singledom.


Seems like MGTOW is more about having negative feelings towards women than it does about addressing the reasons why.

I think you'd be better of joining "No Ma'am" than being a part of MGTOW

http://marriedwithchildren.wikia.com/wiki/NO_MA'AM



 

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Single is a descriptor, not a label, and it’s used for both genders equally. Calling a man single is in no way comparable to calling a woman a tease or a prude, lol. I also think your interpretation of how men and women are perceived when they’re called single is very skewed.
just made an edit to better explain this .. 'single' excludes the single and not interested option like with the right opportunity you will switch back to just single and perhaps at some point 'not single'.
The real choice is between sex/ love interaction and no sex/love interaction between the sexes, single is a stage in the first one, not in both, MGTOW (monk) is in the second one; there is no female equivalent yet. So the term 'single' is very much a shaming term. I didn't take offense on the term but wanted to explain the POV.

I will admit 'red pill' perspectives are very skewed from society, there is good reason The Matrix was used as a descriptor for the 'awakening'. Living in a world you believe you once had control over and waking up enslaved by it is quite an intense thing. Personally I awoke quite gently over years with no desire to return back, but many men didn't and are still angry about it: Women are not to blame, both men and women just let society create itself this way; nature dictated that we do it this way.
Some of the guys are slowly getting some concepts as to what society will look like in the future. Nobility and a few forms of aristocracy may make a return to society, consumerism should develop a massive split. Women will work harder for a while sharing it to 'get it all' including male partners (it won't bother other men doing these other roles in society). Things actually look pretty positive for the future of men from most MGTOW perspective. For men living right now happiness means doing their own thing; whatever they want, if you want family chase that but be safe doing it.
On unattached men/ 'singles', since we are on the subject you are brave guys, these days it is big wave surfing.
 

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Single is a descriptor, not a label, and it’s used for both genders equally. Calling a man single is in no way comparable to calling a woman a tease or a prude, lol. I also think your interpretation of how men and women are perceived when they’re called single is very skewed.

The number of people who hound me about dating someone... "Do you have a boyfriend yet?" Do I need one? If so, someone forgot to tell me. We'll deal with that "I'm gay" thing later.
 

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Lots of red pill guys like to 'game' women by being superficial, many still believe that women like sex/ love/ companionship in the same way that they do. Genuinely opt out of this role for a while and you will see the difference in these current friendships (platonic and obviously non-platonic).

Social capital is important to women sharing emotion draws upon that so 'superficial' is capital neutral. Personally I can't do superficial, it bores me, so when it comes to women I commit to the capital neutral thing and that it will stay that way. Women don't owe me the energy of finding me people to hook up with, they can't count on my protection, and I won't be trading my status/ wealth/ sexuality/ seed. Everything else is open for discussion, due to my love of psychology and ideas it is usually solely on those types of things with women friends.
Hope this answers the question for you.
I don't know man, sounds like you may be overthinking this thing a little.

But what the hell, as long as you are single, you got all the free time in the world. Knock yourself out with it...
 
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I can understand the mentality that exists behind the MGTOW movement, just not the rhetoric and finger pointing. Since my major, long term relationship fell apart many years ago, I came to the understanding of what I was doing wrong for my part of the relationship. But once the ship had sailed, it was too late for the profoundness of my epiphany to have any repairing effect. I think that many men internalize the pain of a breakup, I know I did, but we tend to externalize blame and minimize our part when having discussions with friends about why the breakup occurred. When I decided to start dating again, I became very aware of my thoughts and had to make an active and very difficult decision to alter the filters that I was using to parse what I was feeling and why I was feeling it. When I removed personal pride and ego from the equation, I found that introspection was a very powerful tool. But alas, too little and too late are poisonous components of the thought process when proper healing time is never taken. Remaining single is a personal decision for me at this stage of my life, so I wouldn't feel comfortable with associating myself with a "movement" or anything of the sort. My life goals have simply changed. They've also become very selfish, as my personal happiness has become the single most important factor in my life as I prepare for retirement with plans to travel the world afterwards. I'll just be doing it as an unattached, single male. ;)
 

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What is the benefit in speaking in absolutes? Like declaring yourself MGTOW instead of just being single and independent but considering the possibility of life changing one day. I’m not asking in a snarky way, just never really understood it.
Just an update, change increasingly unlikely from status MGTOW. The sex drive hasn't returned, have lost around 7kg due to getting back to some activities I loved, am planning to cut one day off work a week some time next year for some extra study.
 

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Just an update, change increasingly unlikely from status MGTOW. The sex drive hasn't returned, have lost around 7kg due to getting back to some activities I loved, am planning to cut one day off work a week some time next year for some extra study.
How do you plan to handle women (if you should happen to run across them) who think that you being an unattached male gives them the liberty to bombard you with unsolicited advances and unwanted physical contact? Sorta wondering how bona fide MGTOWs deal with this; does it send them into a murderous rage or what?

As a non-MGTOW, my policy has always been to try and grin and bear it, politely weather the storm unless things get to a point where I really need to put my foot down. This usually leaves me feeling disgusted and a little dirty, like I could have handled the situation better. Was it my fault for being too friendly?
 

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I feel like this particular quote from the first article about says it all: "When they say they feel entitled — that they're not getting the love and affection and sex that all humans need — it's in part because they see women as inhuman objects," Friedman said. "Who wants to date a guy like that?"

The second one about mgtow's... Well, that's even more sad in a way. I can understand making a decision to not date or to become celibate. But to cut women out completely for the fact that they're female? And to assume that they're going to maliciously cause you pain? Also, fair enough cutting all the drama out, but it kind of seems like with all that whining about women that they're causing far more drama. Sounds harsh, but humans are social, we thrive because of our ability to feel empathy and communicate with one another. In the wild people like this would die off, and seeing as they're so set on never having sexual relations, or in the case of incels actually going after women they might have a chance with, then it seems that their genes will die with them. I understand having a shitty time with the opposite sex, but there is a point where you need to evolve with the times and just let go of concepts which don't serve you.
As the quote from the article pointed out, why on earth would a woman date a man who sees her as an object he's entitled to when she could date someone who genuinely sees her as a person? This all goes along with the "being an underdog automatically makes me a nice guy". I am so fed up with people assuming that less conventionally attractive men are automatically nice. There is no correlation between looks and kindness! The only difference might be that someone less conventionally attractive might work harder at presenting their personality as being good.
 
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