Obamacare

[Shaun__]

Obamacare: National Website Disaster!

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

If you subtract 2400 from 7000 you get 4600, that is going to be devastating to someone who actually tries to pay her bills. Also her broken leg could have required surgery to install pins, if it simply shattered when she hit the tree, and her cost would be a lot higher. The end result is going to be everyone else paying higher costs, and her trying to file for bankruptcy or hiding from bill collectors.

ACA was supposed to help really poor people, the people with a little higher income levels were going to be helped by the states. Not all states decided to participate. If the democrats in congress had not been terrified of being called socialists we would have looked at the best healthcare systems around, and just copied things that would work for us. Still if the risk pool is larger prices will have to go down over time, since profits are capped. Those young people paying will be happy for this when they are the ones who need it.

Shaun_ you've ducked my question how Obamacare helps a camgirl making a modest amount between 20,000- $30,000 a year. The very poor have always had Medicaid, that doesn't change other than expanding Medicaid in many states by spending more money. (Of course we already have a big deficit so we are actually borrowing money from the Chinese to pay for medical care for the very poor). The reason the states didn't participate is they unlike Uncle Sam can't print money and many have already maxed out their credit cards, to pay for the pension and health care cost of their public employees.

Also from your math I don't think you understand how insurance under Obamacare works.
First there is a premium the amount varies widely by state but in most state it is about $200 for the baseline Silver program for a somebody in their 20s.
$2400 a year is a lot of money for a young person making $30K on insurance that won't do them much good.

Then there is a deductible much like Auto insurance. For a silver program that deductible is generally $2,000 a year meaning you pay the full cost for doctor visits, X-rays, lab test etc. until you've spent $2,000

Finally unlike Auto insurance where if you wreck the car you only pay say a $500 and the insurance company replaces your car. Insurance programs under the exchange work differently.
After you spent $2,000 you are then responsible for paying the next 30% of additional services you receive with the insurance company paying 70%. Now there is a limit of typically $6,350 the maximum out of pocket expense. But that is in addition to the $2,400 you paid in premium meaning the maximum you have to spend on health care is $8750 in year. But I suspect unless you are consistently in the MFC top 200, she really can't afford $8,750. Frankly I am not even sure there is a much a difference between having to come up with $8750, or $50,000 for lots of girls struggling to make rent. Especially cause they probably can't work for a while cause of their medical problems. Any type of serious medical condition still is huge burden, with or without insurance under Obamacare. Of course the good news is most young people don't get sick only 3.8% a year run up medical expense of $10K and .1% of 50K+. It seems to me that instead of spending $2,400 to buy insurance most camgirls would be better off saving the $2,400/year and eventually they'll have enough money to be pay for most medical expense. Then later they can buy catastrophic insurance which protects them for major medical problems. The reason the White House wants young people to enroll, is not because buying insurance is good deal for young people but rather to help subsidize the older folks and keep our premiums down.

ACA was supposed to do a lot of things, but it was poorly designed, and now we know the implementation was horribly botched.

 

[Bocefish]

New York doctors are treating ObamaCare like the plague, a new survey reveals.

A poll conducted by the New York State Medical Society finds that 44 percent of MDs said they are not participating in the nation’s new health-care plan.

Another 33 percent say they’re still not sure whether to become ObamaCare providers.
Only 23 percent of the 409 physicians queried said they’re taking patients who signed up through health exchanges.

“This is so poorly designed that a lot of doctors are afraid to participate,” said Dr. Sam Unterricht, president of the 29,000-member organization. “There’s a lot of resistance. Doctors don’t know what they’re going to get paid.”

Three out of four doctors who are participating in the program said they “had to participate” because of existing contractual obligations with an insurer or medical provider, not because they wanted to.

Only one in four “affirmatively” chose to sign up for the exchanges.
Nearly eight in 10 — 77 percent — said they had not been given a fee schedule to show much they’ll get paid if they sign up.

The survey invited doctors to anonymously share opinions about the new health care law, and many took time out of their busy days to vent.

“Obama Care wants to start right away, but who see all these new patients???? Not me,” e-mailed one doc.

Another said, “I plan to retire if this disaster is implemented. This is a train wreck.”
“I refuse to participate in the exchange plans! I am completely opposed to this new law,” said a third respondent.

One doctor recycled the mantra used to attack addictions: “The solution is simple: Just say no.”
One physician was so disgusted, he threatened to taken only cash patients going forward.
“I am seriously considering opting out of all insurance plans including Medicare because of [ObamaCare].”

Some physicians said the pressure on insurance carriers to control costs is leading to rationed care.
“OBAMACARE is a disaster. I have already seen denial of medication, denial of referrals,” one doc said.

And they worry that stingy payments for medical services offered by insurers could put some doctors out of business and force others into retirement.
“Any doctor who accepts the exchange is just a bad businessman/woman. Pays terrible,” argued one doctor.

Said another MD, “Can’t imagine any doctors would be willing to work for so little money? All doctors should boycott.”

Doctors complained they’ve gotten the shaft for years even before ObamaCare.
“I get screwed from insurance companies already. I refuse to get screwed any longer,” one doctor said.

Others said they don’t have enough information to make an informed choice.
“This is a joke. We are flying blind,” said one doctor.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/29/docs-resisting-obamacare/

 

[Shaun__]

Shaun_ you've ducked my question how Obamacare helps a camgirl making a modest amount between 20,000- $30,000 a year. The very poor have always had Medicaid, that doesn't change other than expanding Medicaid in many states by spending more money. (Of course we already have a big deficit so we are actually borrowing money from the Chinese to pay for medical care for the very poor). The reason the states didn't participate is they unlike Uncle Sam can't print money and many have already maxed out their credit cards, to pay for the pension and health care cost of their public employees.

I did not duck the question. I told you how the program was supposed to have worked, no one really expected some states to try to make things worse on purpose.

First do no harm. That’s a tenet of medical ethics that future doctors worldwide are taught in medical school.

If only the people we elect to represent us were required to take such an oath when they’re sworn into office.

Because they aren’t, folks in Florida are facing having to pay far more for health insurance over the next two years than necessary. And health insurance executives will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Florida state lawmakers, in their ongoing efforts to block the implementation of Obamacare in the Sunshine State, recently passed a law that will allow health insurance companies to gouge Floridians more than any corporate boss dreamed was possible.

And if that weren’t bad enough, insurers will actually be required by law to mislead their Florida customers about why they’re hiking their premiums.

Republicans, who control the governor’s office as well as both houses of the Florida legislature, were confident the U.S. Supreme Court would declare the Affordable Care Act unconstitutional. Not only did they vote to prohibit the state from spending money to implement a law they just knew would be overturned by the high court, they refused to accept money from the federal government that would have enabled the state’s department of insurance to do a better job of regulating health insurers and enforcing new consumer protections in the law.

When the Supreme Court shocked Obamacare opponents last year by upholding the law, Florida lawmakers were in a pickle.

Their response? They passed a bill that prohibits the state’s Office of Insurance Regulation from protecting consumers from unreasonable rate increases for two years.

Also from your math I don't think you understand how insurance under Obamacare works.
First there is a premium the amount varies widely by state but in most state it is about $200 for the baseline Silver program for a somebody in their 20s.
$2400 a year is a lot of money for a young person making $30K on insurance that won't do them much good.

Then there is a deductible much like Auto insurance. For a silver program that deductible is generally $2,000 a year meaning you pay the full cost for doctor visits, X-rays, lab test etc. until you've spent $2,000

Finally unlike Auto insurance where if you wreck the car you only pay say a $500 and the insurance company replaces your car. Insurance programs under the exchange work differently.
After you spent $2,000 you are then responsible for paying the next 30% of additional services you receive with the insurance company paying 70%. Now there is a limit of typically $6,350 the maximum out of pocket expense. But that is in addition to the $2,400 you paid in premium meaning the maximum you have to spend on health care is $8750 in year. But I suspect unless you are consistently in the MFC top 200, she really can't afford $8,750. Frankly I am not even sure there is a much a difference between having to come up with $8750, or $50,000 for lots of girls struggling to make rent. Especially cause they probably can't work for a while cause of their medical problems. Any type of serious medical condition still is huge burden, with or without insurance under Obamacare. Of course the good news is most young people don't get sick only 3.8% a year run up medical expense of $10K and .1% of 50K+. It seems to me that instead of spending $2,400 to buy insurance most camgirls would be better off saving the $2,400/year and eventually they'll have enough money to be pay for most medical expense. Then later they can buy catastrophic insurance which protects them for major medical problems. The reason the White House wants young people to enroll, is not because buying insurance is good deal for young people but rather to help subsidize the older folks and keep our premiums down.

ACA was supposed to do a lot of things, but it was poorly designed, and now we know the implementation was horribly botched.

I have lived through a bad car accident and cancer, I know how insurance works. You are living in a fantasy world if you think $2400 is going to pay for anything bad, a complete set of blood work costs about $2000, and that is just for general health not specific tests for illness. Also did you miss the thing I said about risk pools? That is how all insurance works, and there is nothing wrong about making the world better for your future self. It show the ability to plan ahead, and not just live for the moment.

PP ACA is poorly crafted, because too many people in this country are too stubborn to cut profit from healthcare and make it a public service.

 

[LuckySmiles]

That is how all insurance works, and there is nothing wrong about making the world better for your future self. It show the ability to plan ahead, and not just live for the moment.

:lol: That's a bit insulting. It's not like anyone who can't afford the extra bill is using the money towards part of a Mercedes payment.
But if the money is used paying off other debts first accruing interest first, it might be making things better for your future self. Lot's of people in their 20's have that too. From all that "living in the moment" or, ya know, planning for the future with other things like, oh I dunno, college? Maybe college debt isn't a thing..

Maybe it's because being in debt forever due to a sudden illness isn't that big a threat to someone who feels like they'll be in debt forever either way.
But if you can cut out an extra bill for a year or two. When you've only got a few thousand left to pay off ray: you might actually feel like you have a sliver of hope at getting somewhere.

It's not a position anyone wants to be in picking and choosing like that, but it's reality. You can say tough shit insurance is more important, but if it's insurance vs oh i dunno groceries,cheap rent, and debt payments...and you can't afford all 4.. which would you pick to cut out? Food! of course! yes we can skip food now because we have health insurance if we start to waste away.

Believe it or not, I'm not just talking about me or random hypothetical vermont slope commanding uninsured camgirl. Last I checked there's a a fuckton of people my age who went to college and work part time jobs ( more than one) making ends meet that pay rent but their jobs don't come with insurance. It's not because they don't want the job that comes with insurance, it's because the job for the college grad with insurance doesn't exist. And the part time jobs without insurance really don't pay all that much either. But the person works juuust hard enough to not qualify for any help from the gov.

Unless the economy is on the upswing now and benefit abundant jobs are a plenty. Maybe I missed that.

 

[Bocefish]

PP ACA is poorly crafted, because too many people in this country are too stubborn to cut profit from healthcare and make it a public service.

How dare those doctors that spend up to 14 years in additional higher learning and hundreds of thousands on their schooling expect to make a profit afterwards. Damn those stubborn assholes.

Most doctors are unhappy now due to all the paperwork and admin time required, just imagine how much happier they'll be with the extras added under Obamacare. Happy Happy Happy doctors will be everywhere. :whistle:

The Million Dollar Mistake:Becoming A Doctor

 

[JerryBoBerry]

But if the money is used paying off other debts first accruing interest first, it might be making things better for your future self. Lot's of people in their 20's have that too. From all that "living in the moment" or, ya know, planning for the future with other things like, oh I dunno, college? Maybe college debt isn't a thing..

Four years at the college I'm going to will only set ya back $96,000, and it's cheaper than a lot. Funny thing is for student's Obamacare is a joke. First off, the main way to be exempt from the nightmare is to not make enough to file taxes. So if you're super poor you don't qualify for any subsidies. So much for the theory of helping the poor masses. This has nothing to do with getting insurance for everyone equally, it has to do with being another socialist handout program paid for on the backs of people who can ill afford it as is.

Then if you want food stamps as a student you have to work 20 hours a week. But that means you've made enough to now have to pay for this. Which more than wipes out what you'll get in food assistance. And to top it all off as a student there's plans available that are cheaper than Obamacare anyway (Aetna Student plan at my college). So it's a shitty price anyway. There's no benefits whatsoever for the young college student to join. No incentive I can see anywhere. In fact joining would be a sign of downright stupidity on a student's part. So much for encouraging young healthy people to foot the bill.

Believe it or not, I'm not just talking about me or random hypothetical vermont slope commanding uninsured camgirl. Last I checked there's a a fuckton of people my age who went to college and work part time jobs ( more than one) making ends meet that pay rent but their jobs don't come with insurance. It's not because they don't want the job that comes with insurance, it's because the job for the college grad with insurance doesn't exist. And the part time jobs without insurance really don't pay all that much either. But the person works juuust hard enough to not qualify for any help from the gov.

And let's not forget the reason there are so many more part time employees out there right now is because of Obamashit. The company I use to work for, before going back to school, and the one my brother still works for didn't want to have to pay for bogus insurance. Like so many other companies, they put their entire workforce, over 7000 employees, to part-time status only. They hired more employees to make up for this, but not one of them gets over 23 hours per week from now on. The company use to have affordable plans that they helped employees paying a percentage of the fees, but not now. The company doesn't pay any part of insurance fees to part time workers. So, this wonderful system has now made it so people are no longer getting the 40 hours a week and being able to afford their own insurance. Instead they make roughly half and have the added expense of bloated insurance rates with less coverage. Great system. Bravo, really.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

How dare those doctors that spend up to 14 years in additional higher learning and hundreds of thousands on their schooling expect to make a profit afterwards. Damn those stubborn assholes.

Most doctors are unhappy now due to all the paperwork and admin time required, just imagine how much happier they'll be with the extras added under Obamacare. Happy Happy Happy doctors will be everywhere. :whistle:

The Million Dollar Mistake:Becoming A Doctor

Doctor...Petroleum Engineer...Doctor...Engineer...

So I'm thinking I chose the right one. :mrgreen:

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and ... .htm#tab-1

And keep in mind that's 2 year old data. It's gone up. :hello2:

 

[Shaun__]

That is how all insurance works, and there is nothing wrong about making the world better for your future self. It show the ability to plan ahead, and not just live for the moment.

:lol: That's a bit insulting. It's not like anyone who can't afford the extra bill is using the money towards part of a Mercedes payment.
But if the money is used paying off other debts first accruing interest first, it might be making things better for your future self. Lot's of people in their 20's have that too. From all that "living in the moment" or, ya know, planning for the future with other things like, oh I dunno, college? Maybe college debt isn't a thing..

Maybe it's because being in debt forever due to a sudden illness isn't that big a threat to someone who feels like they'll be in debt forever either way.
But if you can cut out an extra bill for a year or two. When you've only got a few thousand left to pay off ray: you might actually feel like you have a sliver of hope at getting somewhere.

It's not a position anyone wants to be in picking and choosing like that, but it's reality. You can say tough shit insurance is more important, but if it's insurance vs oh i dunno groceries,cheap rent, and debt payments...and you can't afford all 4.. which would you pick to cut out? Food! of course! yes we can skip food now because we have health insurance if we start to waste away.

Believe it or not, I'm not just talking about me or random hypothetical vermont slope commanding uninsured camgirl. Last I checked there's a a fuckton of people my age who went to college and work part time jobs ( more than one) making ends meet that pay rent but their jobs don't come with insurance. It's not because they don't want the job that comes with insurance, it's because the job for the college grad with insurance doesn't exist. And the part time jobs without insurance really don't pay all that much either. But the person works juuust hard enough to not qualify for any help from the gov.

Unless the economy is on the upswing now and benefit abundant jobs are a plenty. Maybe I missed that.

I was talking about the young people buying insurance who may not need it today. It will save many of them money, when looked at over their entire life. The old system of going to the emergency room, then ditching the bill was not working. Single payer would have been better for the country as a whole, but people like Bocefish would never allow it. I think Bocefish may be a veteran with VA benefits though, also thank you for serving if you did Bocefish. He is in the same boat as many of my coworkers, I got mine fuck the rest of those freeloaders who want medical reform.

They are cussing at people like you. They are the ones doing the insulting not me. Again single payer would have been the most sensible thing for us to have done, but PP ACA is better than nothing. If you truly hate it, then vote for the people trying to go back to the old way of ditching the bill and forcing me and everyone else to pay for your whole visit.

PP ACA is poorly crafted, because too many people in this country are too stubborn to cut profit from healthcare and make it a public service.

How dare those doctors that spend up to 14 years in additional higher learning and hundreds of thousands on their schooling expect to make a profit afterwards. Damn those stubborn assholes.

Most doctors are unhappy now due to all the paperwork and admin time required, just imagine how much happier they'll be with the extras added under Obamacare. Happy Happy Happy doctors will be everywhere. :whistle:

The Million Dollar Mistake:Becoming A Doctor

I was talking about the insurance companies, you know the pointless middle men who add nothing of real value.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

That is how all insurance works, and there is nothing wrong about making the world better for your future self. It show the ability to plan ahead, and not just live for the moment.

:lol: That's a bit insulting. It's not like anyone who can't afford the extra bill is using the money towards part of a Mercedes payment.
But if the money is used paying off other debts first accruing interest first, it might be making things better for your future self. Lot's of people in their 20's have that too. From all that "living in the moment" or, ya know, planning for the future with other things like, oh I dunno, college? Maybe college debt isn't a thing..

Maybe it's because being in debt forever due to a sudden illness isn't that big a threat to someone who feels like they'll be in debt forever either way.
But if you can cut out an extra bill for a year or two. When you've only got a few thousand left to pay off ray: you might actually feel like you have a sliver of hope at getting somewhere.

It's not a position anyone wants to be in picking and choosing like that, but it's reality. You can say tough shit insurance is more important, but if it's insurance vs oh i dunno groceries,cheap rent, and debt payments...and you can't afford all 4.. which would you pick to cut out? Food! of course! yes we can skip food now because we have health insurance if we start to waste away.

Believe it or not, I'm not just talking about me or random hypothetical vermont slope commanding uninsured camgirl. Last I checked there's a a fuckton of people my age who went to college and work part time jobs ( more than one) making ends meet that pay rent but their jobs don't come with insurance. It's not because they don't want the job that comes with insurance, it's because the job for the college grad with insurance doesn't exist. And the part time jobs without insurance really don't pay all that much either. But the person works juuust hard enough to not qualify for any help from the gov.

Unless the economy is on the upswing now and benefit abundant jobs are a plenty. Maybe I missed that.

The reason I find the behavior of camgirls interesting is because a Camgirl with camscore of 1000 makes an hourly wage that is higher than her 20 something peers makes. (Hell the money is the main reason most girls cam.) PLenty of recent college grads with liberal arts degree don't make $15-20/hour. Now most camgirls don't work 40 hours a week but then plenty of 20 somethings are lucky to get 30 hours of a week between two jobs. I find unreasonable to ask young people to pay $200/month for the crappy insurance that you get with Obamacare. Now it would obe ne thing if insurance under Obamacare meant you go to the doctor and only have to pay $25-30 a visit and $50-100 for tests and even if you got cancer you only were worse case out an additional $2000 or so. That is how my existing insurance works. But as I have shown even relatively minor illness under Obamacare result in paying 3500-$6350 above and beyond the $2400 premium. While it is true that $2400 doesn't cover much in the way of medical cost. Skipping 5 years of paying for insurance is $12,000 and that is enough to pay for many procedure if you are unlucky and need them, and pay off almost 1/2 the typical college student load debt if you aren't unlucky. It is worth noting that 80% of young people who don't need to be hospitalized or have a serious medical condition in a 5 year period.

I am curious LuckySmiles how cheap would insurance have to be and/or what would have to cover for you to willing buy it?

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

They are cussing at people like you. They are the ones doing the insulting not me. Again single payer would have been the most sensible thing for us to have done, but PP ACA is better than nothing. If you truly hate it, then vote for the people trying to go back to the old way of ditching the bill and forcing me and everyone else to pay for your whole visit.

You keeping saying this but why? I'm sure it is better if you have a pre existing condition and couldn't get insurance. Hell it probably is better for many 50 years old, perhaps even for myself. (Nope can answer my question yet so I don't know.) But why is it better for a young person?

 

[Sevrin]

They are cussing at people like you. They are the ones doing the insulting not me. Again single payer would have been the most sensible thing for us to have done, but PP ACA is better than nothing. If you truly hate it, then vote for the people trying to go back to the old way of ditching the bill and forcing me and everyone else to pay for your whole visit.

You keeping saying this but why? I'm sure it is better if you have a pre existing condition and couldn't get insurance. Hell it probably is better for many 50 years old, perhaps even for myself. (Nope can answer my question yet so I don't know.) But why is it better for a young person?

Because young people could find themselves having to put their futures on hold in order to pay for their parents' care. And young people do get sick, and have accidents.

While asking this question, you can ask why young people should be called upon to go to war, when older people are not. Those older people were called upon to sacrifice in their time. Our parents and grandparents paid when I was little and couldn't feed, house or defend myself. Our forefathers fought and died to ensure our freedom. Young people should not think that sacrifice for the common good is something that does not apply to them.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

They are cussing at people like you. They are the ones doing the insulting not me. Again single payer would have been the most sensible thing for us to have done, but PP ACA is better than nothing. If you truly hate it, then vote for the people trying to go back to the old way of ditching the bill and forcing me and everyone else to pay for your whole visit.

You keeping saying this but why? I'm sure it is better if you have a pre existing condition and couldn't get insurance. Hell it probably is better for many 50 years old, perhaps even for myself. (Nope can answer my question yet so I don't know.) But why is it better for a young person?

Because young people could find themselves having to put their futures on hold in order to pay for their parents' care. And young people do get sick, and have accidents.

While asking this question, you can ask why young people should be called upon to go to war, when older people are not. Those older people were called upon to sacrifice in their time. Our parents and grandparents paid when I was little and couldn't feed, house or defend myself. Our forefathers fought and died to ensure our freedom. Young people should not think that sacrifice for the common good is something that does not apply to them.

Well most older people have medical insurance, generally through their employment, when you turn 65 you get Medicare. We have already burden young people with medicare system that is unsustainable,. Old people vote more, they have expanded Medicare and added benefits like Medicare part D. By far the largest age group without insurance is 18-29 year old, cause they can't find jobs with insurance. Now I know a lot of 40-65 years old that take care of their age parents, but not many 20 somethings

By far the most affluent group in the country is the 50-64 year olds. The biggest change that has happened in last 50 years is the rise of affluence among our senior citizen. Back in the 1960s the poorest group was the 18-29 year olds, and the second poorest was the senior citizen. Now the 65+ is the second most affluent group.

Regarding military service, we have an all volunteer army for the last 40 years. We pay the young people who go war,and provide them with some very nice benefits when they leave service. But Obamacare isn't volunteer. If you are young you have two choice buy insurance which is pretty much useless, for anything but a very serious illness, or pay 1-2.5% of your income as a fine. Why are we asking them to do this? To make insurance more affordable to the 50+ group.

Now I know a lot of 40-65 years old that take care of their age parents, but not many 20 somethings. It seems to me we have already ask young people to put their future on hold. We've left young people with 17 trillion dollars in debt, two unsustainable entitlement program Medicare and Social Security, a boat load of student debt, and a jobless economy. So somehow its fair ask them to subsidies the insurance of some fat 50 year old (this would include me), so they can get treatment for their type 2 diabetes., (which I don' t have)

Look I'm all for seeing young people get screwed but i think it should be done on camera and we should tip them.

 

[Nordling]

:lol: More from Comedy Central.

 

[Bocefish]

Can it get anymore laugable?

Thanks to ObamaCare, New Yorkers can now get health insurance with rainbow sprinkles.

In yet another bungle for the botched government insurance rollout, the state Health Department has mistakenly listed numerous non-health-related business as enrollment sites — including a Brooklyn cupcake shop that has been besieged by callers.

“I have nothing to do with this,” said Carmen Rodriguez owner of Brooklyn Cupcake in Williamsburg. “I run a very busy establishment, and I’m like, what is going on?”

Because of the mistake, her bakery has gotten 150 calls from people seeking medical-insurance information.

“There has to be somebody who can help with ObamaCare; that’s their own mess,” she said.

New Yorkers shopping for medical coverage under ObamaCare are being directed by the state’s health-exchange Web site to 288 locations where so-called navigators can offer personal assistance.

They are reaching places such as Rodriguez’s shop because the erroneous listings contain the businesses’ accurate addresses, phone numbers and even languages spoken.
The cupcake maker is at her wit’s end.

“I don’t want to be listed, because they are calling my telephone off the hook,” she said.

In nearby Red Hook, the dispatcher for a limo company was equally puzzled at finding his company to be among those listed as enrollment sites.

“If you want me to get you a car, I can help you out,” said Allen Amor of Apex Car & Limo. But ObamaCare? Sorry, wrong number.

Marco Abad, of Zambrand Auto Repair in Sunset Park, said he didn’t even realize his business was among those listed.

“That’s something crazy, because we fix cars over here,” he said.

Amar Git, owner of Desi Deli in Hell’s Kitchen, said he couldn’t possibly help navigate ObamaCare because he doesn’t have insurance himself.

“How can it be? How can I help?” he asked rhetorically.

A receptionist at a supposed navigator site that is actually Crystal Skin Care on Mott Street hung up on a Post reporter.

A clerk at the nearby Dragonland Bakery, another listed site, said no one there spoke English.
One of the places listed at least dealt in health issues — though they were not an enrollment site.
“I’m frustrated, I’m not registered to be a navigator!” said an exasperated Patrick Wu, manager of the Bowery Pharmacy at 95 Bowery. “I don’t know why my name is on the list.”

He said he has fielded about 50 calls since the national health plan launched on Oct. 1 and they’re interfering with his ability to do his job.

A Health Department spokesman insisted only a few businesses were listed by mistake and the list was being corrected.

The spokesman, Bill Schwarz, also said that in some cases workers in the affected businesses aren’t aware that the owners had joined the navigator program.

“Many of these enrollment sites are located in settings — small businesses, libraries, etc. — where New Yorkers go to shop or recreate. As such, some employees of these locations may not be fully aware of the enrollment- assistance efforts,” he said.

 

[Jupiter551]

Fuck obamacare, and fuck your govt.

https://socialreader.com/me/content/Ssicl?chid=78588&utm_source=webapp&utm_medium=tw&utm_content=article_host
NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide, Snowden documents say

Barton Gellman, Ashkan Soltani, The Washington Post

The National Security Agency has secretly broken into the main communications links that connect Yahoo and Google data centers around the world, according to documents obtained from former NSA contractor Edward Snowden and interviews with knowledgeable officials.

By tapping those links, the agency has positioned itself to collect at will from hundreds of millions of user accounts, many of them belonging to Americans. The NSA does not keep everything it collects, but it keeps a lot.

According to a top-secret accounting dated Jan. 9, 2013, the NSA’s acquisitions directorate sends millions of records every day from Yahoo and Google internal networks to data warehouses at the agency’s headquarters at Fort Meade, Md. In the preceding 30 days, the report said, field collectors had processed and sent back 181,280,466 new records — including “metadata,” which would indicate who sent or received e-mails and when, as well as content such as text, audio and video.

The NSA’s principal tool to exploit the data links is a project called MUSCULAR, operated jointly with the agency’s British counterpart, the Government Communications Headquarters . From undisclosed interception points, the NSA and the GCHQ are copying entire data flows across fiber-optic cables that carry information between the data centers of the Silicon Valley giants.

The infiltration is especially striking because the NSA, under a separate program known as PRISM, has front-door access to Google and Yahoo user accounts through a court-approved process.

The MUSCULAR project appears to be an unusually aggressive use of NSA tradecraft against flagship American companies. The agency is built for high-tech spying, with a wide range of digital tools, but it has not been known to use them routinely against U.S. companies.

In a statement, the National Security Agency said it is “focused on discovering and developing intelligence about valid foreign intelligence targets only.”

“NSA applies Attorney General-approved processes to protect the privacy of U.S. persons — minimizing the likelihood of their information in our targeting, collection, processing, exploitation, retention, and dissemination,” it said.

In a statement, Google’s chief legal officer, David Drummond, said the company has “long been concerned about the possibility of this kind of snooping” and has not provided the government with access to its systems.

“We are outraged at the lengths to which the government seems to have gone to intercept data from our private fiber networks, and it underscores the need for urgent reform,” he said.

At Yahoo, a spokeswoman said, “We have strict controls in place to protect the security of our data centers, and we have not given access to our data centers to the NSA or to any other government agency.”

Under PRISM, the NSA gathers huge volumes of online communications records by legally compelling U.S. technology companies, including Yahoo and Google, to turn over any data that matches court-approved search terms. That program, which was first disclosed by The Washington Post and the Guardian newspaper in Britain, is authorized under Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act and overseen by the Foreign ­Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC).

Intercepting communications overseas has clear advantages for the NSA, with looser restrictions and less oversight. NSA documents about the effort refer directly to “full take,” “bulk access” and “high volume” operations on Yahoo and Google networks. Such large-scale collection of Internet content would be illegal in the United States, but the operations take place overseas, where the NSA is allowed to presume that anyone using a foreign data link is a foreigner.

Outside U.S. territory, statutory restrictions on surveillance seldom apply and FISC has no jurisdiction. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) has acknowledged that Congress conducts little oversight of intelligence-gathering under the presidential authority of Executive Order 12333 , which defines the basic powers and responsibilities of the intelligence agencies.

John Schindler, a former NSA chief analyst and frequent defender who teaches at the Naval War College, said it is obvious why the agency would prefer to avoid restrictions where it can.

“Look, NSA has platoons of lawyers and their entire job is figuring out how to stay within the law and maximize collection by exploiting every loophole,” he said. “It’s fair to say the rules are less restrictive under Executive Order 12333 than they are under FISA,” the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

In its statement, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence denied that it was using executive authority to “get around the limitations” imposed by FISA.

The operation to infiltrate data links exploits a fundamental weakness in systems architecture. To guard against data loss and system slowdowns, Google and Yahoo maintain fortress-like data centers across four continents and connect them with thousands of miles of fiber-optic cable. These globe-spanning networks, representing billions of dollars of investment, are known as “clouds” because data move seamlessly around them.

For the data centers to operate effectively, they synchronize large volumes of information about account holders. Yahoo’s internal network, for example, sometimes transmits entire e-mail archives — years of messages and attachments — from one data center to another.

Tapping the Google and Yahoo clouds allows the NSA to intercept communications in real time and to take “a retrospective look at target activity,” according to one internal NSA document.

To obtain free access to data- center traffic, the NSA had to circumvent gold-standard security measures. Google “goes to great lengths to protect the data and intellectual property in these centers,” according to one of the company’s blog posts, with tightly audited access controls, heat-sensitive cameras, round-the-clock guards and biometric verification of identities.

Google and Yahoo also pay for premium data links, designed to be faster, more reliable and more secure. In recent years, both of them are said to have bought or leased thousands of miles of fiber-optic cables for their own exclusive use. They had reason to think, insiders said, that their private, internal networks were safe from prying eyes.

In an NSA presentation slide on “Google Cloud Exploitation,” however, a sketch shows where the “Public Internet” meets the internal “Google Cloud” where their data reside. In hand-printed letters, the drawing notes that encryption is “added and removed here!” The artist adds a smiley face, a cheeky celebration of victory over Google security.

Two engineers with close ties to Google exploded in profanity when they saw the drawing. “I hope you publish this,” one of them said.

For the MUSCULAR project, the GCHQ directs all intake into a “buffer” that can hold three to five days of traffic before recycling storage space. From the buffer, custom-built NSA tools unpack and decode the special data formats that the two companies use inside their clouds. Then the data are sent through a series of filters to “select” information the NSA wants and “defeat” what it does not.

PowerPoint slides about the Google cloud, for example, show that the NSA tries to filter out all data from the company’s “Web crawler,” which indexes Internet pages.

According to the briefing documents, prepared by participants in the MUSCULAR project, collection from inside Yahoo and Google has produced important intelligence leads against hostile foreign governments that are specified in the documents.

Last month, long before The Post approached Google to discuss the penetration of its cloud, Eric Grosse, vice president for security engineering, said the company is rushing to encrypt the links between its data centers. “It’s an arms race,” he said then. “We see these government agencies as among the most skilled players in this game.”

Yahoo has not announced plans to encrypt its data-center links.

Because digital communications and cloud storage do not usually adhere to national boundaries, MUSCULAR and a previously disclosed NSA operation to collect Internet address books have amassed content and metadata on a previously unknown scale from U.S. citizens and residents. Those operations have gone undebated in public or in Congress because their existence was classified.

The Google and Yahoo operations call attention to an asymmetry in U.S. surveillance law: Although Congress has lifted some restrictions on NSA domestic surveillance on grounds that purely foreign communications sometimes pass over U.S. switches and cables, it has not added restrictions overseas, where American communications or data stores now cross over foreign switches.

“Thirty-five years ago, different countries had their own telecommunications infrastructure, so the division between foreign and domestic collection was clear,” Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), a member of the intelligence panel, said in an interview. “Today there’s a global communications infrastructure, so there’s a greater risk of collecting on Americans when the NSA collects overseas.”

It is not clear how much data from Americans is collected and how much of that is retained. One weekly report on MUSCULAR says the British operators of the site allow the NSA to contribute 100,000 “selectors,” or search terms. That is more than twice the number in use in the PRISM program, but even 100,000 cannot easily account for the millions of records that are said to be sent to Fort Meade each day.

In 2011, when FISC learned that the NSA was using similar methods to collect and analyze data streams — on a much smaller scale — from cables on U.S. territory, Judge John D. Bates ruled that the program was illegal under FISA and inconsistent with the requirements of the Fourth Amendment.

 

[Bocefish]

:lol:

 

[Just Me]

 

[Bocefish]

New site that WORKS!

http://www.obamacaregov.us/

 

[Bocefish]

Quick question. Where is the video explaining the much better plan the republicans have ready to vote on?

Even Dems are jumping ship from Obama's LIES:

CRASHES, CANCELLED POLICIES FRACTURE DEMS -As millions of Americans receive notices that their insurance policies are being cancelled because of new ObamaCare regulations, Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., will offer her own bill that will allow Americans to keep their existing plans. When news broke this week that the president for years led voters to believe they could keep their coverage under his insurance overhaul despite knowing otherwise, Republicans pounced offering legislation to block the Obama rules banning low-post, bare-bones coverage. Landrieu, facing a tough re-election fight in a Republican state, is jumping the line with a bill of her own. “The promise was made and it should be kept,” Landrieu told the New Orleans Times-Picayune. “And it was our understanding when we voted for that, that people when they have insurance, could keep what they had. So, I’m going to be working on that fix.” Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., is also preparing his own legislation that would delay by a full year the imposition of ObamaCare fines for those who don’t buy insurance.

 

[Nordling]

You really need to pick better people to spew your propaganda. Tom McClintock? Member of the Teahaddist lobby. These people just pull lies out of their butts and spew them out.

 

[Bocefish]

You really need to pick better people to spew your propaganda. Tom McClintock? Member of the Teahaddist lobby. These people just pull lies out of their butts and spew them out.

Nice generalization. Care to specify the lies McClintock's pulled from his butt?

 

[Just Me]

His track record on keeping promises is still better than the GOP's.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

When the people that had substandard insurance policies cancelled start invading other countries I might take it more seriously. :roll:
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-debunked-20131030,0,6010994.story#axzz2jGBW1FWf

 

[Bocefish]

His track record on keeping promises is still better than the GOP's.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

LMFAO. That link conveniently only rates a select few promises.

How about these SIX PAGES http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... se-broken/

OR these:

When the people that had substandard insurance policies cancelled start invading other countries I might take it more seriously. :roll:

You mean the substandard policies that got cancelled because single men with no children were cancelled because they are now also REQUIRED to pay for maternity and pediatric coverage?



It amazes me how you're trying to defend this epic failure of Obamacare.

On Oct. 1st a grand total of 1 person enrolled in Obamacare.

Even CNN is pointing out the tyranical fascist tactics of the liar-in-chief:

 

[Shaun__]

 

[Just Me]

His track record on keeping promises is still better than the GOP's.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

LMFAO. That link conveniently only rates a select few promises.

How about these SIX PAGES http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... se-broken/

Are you just deliberately being obtuse? That is from the same link. Check the percentage of broken promises between the GOP and Obama.

It amazes me how you're trying to defend this epic failure of Obamacare.

On Oct. 1st a grand total of 1 person enrolled in Obamacare.

How can you call something a failure that hasn't even taken affect yet? The website and roll out have been a failure but it amazes me how intellectually dishonest you are by conflating the two. Medicare roll out was a disaster too, but you wont find anyone using medicare that wants to get rid of it. When you and your fellow right wing ideologues start calling it the ACA instead of Obamacare I will know it has been a success. :lol:

 

[JerryBoBerry]

His track record on keeping promises is still better than the GOP's.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

LMFAO. That link conveniently only rates a select few promises.

How about these SIX PAGES http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... se-broken/

Are you just deliberately being obtuse? That is from the same link. Check the percentage of broken promises between the GOP and Obama.

It amazes me how you're trying to defend this epic failure of Obamacare.

On Oct. 1st a grand total of 1 person enrolled in Obamacare.

How can you call something a failure that hasn't even taken affect yet? The website and roll out have been a failure but it amazes me how intellectually dishonest you are by conflating the two. Medicare roll out was a disaster too, but you wont find anyone using medicare that wants to get rid of it. When you and your fellow right wing ideologues start calling it the ACA instead of Obamacare I will know it has been a success. :lol:

Don't hold your breath for Obamashit to EVER be a success.

 

[Bocefish]

How can you call something a failure that hasn't even taken affect yet?

Because it's foundation was based on on lies and it was passed because of more lies.

It's a failure because it forces insurers to cancel perfectly good plans that don't offer an “essential health benefits” package, providing coverage in 10 categories, including maternity, prescriptions, chronic disease management, mental health and pediatric services that many people don't need or want.

Why?

Because in 2011 the dept. of HHS found that 62% of enrollees didn’t have coverage for maternity services, 18% didn’t have coverage for mental health services and another 9% didn't have prescription coverage. Now people are mandated to pay way more for crap they don't need or want. Do you consider that a success?

I don't.

Forcing a one size fits all plan is BS.

As details emerge, you'll eventually figure out how bad it is, and it will only get worse.

 

[PepperoniPiz]

I'd pay more attention to your posts if they weren't all just propaganda style images.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I'd pay more attention to your posts if they weren't all just propaganda style images.

don't like truth in visual form?