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Token totals showing glitch.

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Let me speak a moment from the cheap seats. I'm currently in the middle of a massive camathon in an effort to cover my deductible and my off time from an upcoming surgery. I've been working a lot of hours between 2 sites and doing everything I can to try to hit my goals.

Today I had two different people, one had tipped previously and the other hadn't.... who made a comment that I make too much money as a camgirl to need to "camathon" to hit my goals... because we all make a ton of money.

=/

Mind you.... My current rank on MFC is right around #9200 give or take... my current camscore is just a smidgen over 1000-- meaning, if I work a 10 hour day, I won't make what some are able to make in an hour or two. But now I'm being criticized for my "vast wealth" because some guys just don't get the massive income disparity between number 100 and number 10,000.

Thissssss so much. In my first month my take home pay was just under minimum wage and I ranked #2000something I think? Granted I wasn't on cam every day but I was almost always researching or planning, and I can't work full-time anyway due to health problems, so I was doing my personal 'full-time.' My second month was a LOT lower, ranking #4000something, and after that I got sick and am only just sorting out getting back to it. Actually just before I got sick I went on holiday and a member was asking me about it, so I explained it was paid for as a present. He was like 'lol don't lie, you're paying for it out of your amazing camgirl income'

Uhhh... I wish HA. I have relatively low living costs at the moment so was able to use my spare money to help out a family member in need and that was that. I've borrowed a shit ton of money to be able to live since my last camming paycheck. If I get back on cam and a member says they're not going to tip me because I don't need it, I might just put on a homicide show
 
I guess you aren't familiar with hiperbole

*Hyperbole ;)

*Hyperbola ;)

haha. My first thought when I read Swarles post was the math side of things.

Equations-of-Hyperbolas.png
 
One thing I will add, on behalf of a camgirl that is not registered here but read some part of the thread, is that many of the costs associated with camming (toys, lube, outfits, etc) are covered by customers buying gifts and gift cards. Just another data point, I'll let her defend it herself if she so chooses.
While many guys do buy supplies or send gift cards rarely are they actual gifts sent with nothing in return expected. Most are not so really those are still costing a cam girl something. It doesn't matter if a member tips for show and she uses that tip to buy the toy or a member buys the toy and gets a show. I would call neither a gift by the member but a transaction.
Do some guys just gift to gift? Of course. Many. I've gotten lots of generosity and given it in return. However most members want something for their money, not that there's anything wrong with it, and that is mistakenly called a gift by a lot of members as most cam girls can attest to. So while some costs can be covered by some generous members that is no where near the norm to have happen. It's lucky if you are on the receiving end to get someone to give with nothing in return and to give helpful things as well.
 
Maybe it's because I'm only top 100 a couple of times a year when I do a mega month, but no one has said anything like that in my room yet.

I really think the majority of members were maybe only surprise to see HOW high the top 3 really is but the rest is all pretty expected. Someone would be having to eating some serious naive pie to not be aware.
 
I think a good comparison would be if The Boss set up a GoFundMe to pay for hospital bills or housing repair while pouting that he "is so broke" because no one buys his records anymore. In that case, I might feel bad for him in a "Awww, I can spare $20 to help him!" until I learned that he is still making at least 6digits yearly on just royalties.


This is kinda off-topic, but still within the same ideas, so I didn't want to make a completely new thread. Ok, we were talking about Bruce Springsteen and how shitty it would feel if he complained about being broke and needing help paying his bills, only to find out that he's loaded.

Today, this tweet showed up in my timeline.


Now, I have mixed feelings about it. Obviously, Bert (lead singer of The Used) makes a fuckload of money. So people might wonder why he isn't forking over the $25k that his brother-in-law needs. However, from his viewpoint, why should he have to spend $25k of his money, when he can easily send a tweet to billions of people, asking a few to donate $5-20, and it'll be done super quickly? He's helping out by using his fame to work for him (and bro-in-law). What do you think about it?

My point is, if this were a top 100 (or 250) model doing this: would your thought-process change? Would you donate?

Personally, I'm more likely to donate if I "know" the person, as opposed to a brother-in-law or something. Maybe that's shitty of me. I dunno. And I'm WAY more likely to donate if the person doesn't ask for "help" often. I'm sure we've all seen enough "My dog needs emergency braces!" tweets before. I'm just curious as to what everyone else's thought processes are for situations like these.
 
What do you think about it?

My point is, if this were a top 100 (or 250) model doing this: would your thought-process change? Would you donate?

McCracken must be a millionaire by now (or pretty damn close) so there's no way I'd donate knowing that $25k to him is probably going to impact his bank balance less than a $25 donation would impact my own. I think I'd feel the same way if it was a top (as in consistently top 100) model. Might be different if I was loaded but given that's not the case, I have to put my own finances ahead of anybody else's. "Who needs this money more?" If the model in question is pulling in six figures a month then the answer is invariably going to be "me". If it was a lower camscore model who I got on well with and knew well enough (or thought I knew well enough) to know that they really did need that money more than I did, then I'd be a lot more likely to donate. It would also change things considerably if the top model was offering something that I really wanted in exchange for the donation, but then I guess it would cease to be a true donation and become a simple transaction.
 
This is kinda off-topic, but still within the same ideas, so I didn't want to make a completely new thread. Ok, we were talking about Bruce Springsteen and how shitty it would feel if he complained about being broke and needing help paying his bills, only to find out that he's loaded.

Today, this tweet showed up in my timeline.


Now, I have mixed feelings about it. Obviously, Bert (lead singer of The Used) makes a fuckload of money. So people might wonder why he isn't forking over the $25k that his brother-in-law needs. However, from his viewpoint, why should he have to spend $25k of his money, when he can easily send a tweet to billions of people, asking a few to donate $5-20, and it'll be done super quickly? He's helping out by using his fame to work for him (and bro-in-law). What do you think about it?

My point is, if this were a top 100 (or 250) model doing this: would your thought-process change? Would you donate?

Personally, I'm more likely to donate if I "know" the person, as opposed to a brother-in-law or something. Maybe that's shitty of me. I dunno. And I'm WAY more likely to donate if the person doesn't ask for "help" often. I'm sure we've all seen enough "My dog needs emergency braces!" tweets before. I'm just curious as to what everyone else's thought processes are for situations like these.


For me the internet is SCAM central, the only way I donate money is by handing it over in cash to the person who needs it......

:)
 
I will attempt to make what will likely be a rather poor analogy but I am curious to read any responses. I will start by asking the models here a question.


What if a known whale or member with a large token balance came into your room, chatted for a while, and then left without tipping or only tipping a small amount, how would you feel? I suspect there would be some disappointment at the very least.


In a way, that’s the same feeling some members have once they learn just how much a top 10 model on MFC earns. Excuse my French but it’s like, “What the fuck?, I tipped $200 to a woman who can literally afford to wipe her ass with $100 bills.”


As I said before, I will and do buy reasonably priced content from any model, regardless of what they earn, because I am receiving a product in return. But a tip is essentially a gift of money and I can’t justify gifting money to someone who makes almost as much in a month as I do in a year. I also buy privates from time to time but prefer other cam sites that have HD quality cam streams.


Having said all that, I do believe that almost all models appreciate every tip no matter the amount. Nor do I mean to imply that members who tip smaller amounts are not valued or receive nothing for the money they spend. This is only my perspective on the subject.
 
Maybe it's because I'm only top 100 a couple of times a year when I do a mega month, but no one has said anything like that in my room yet.

I'm really starting to think this has hit the middle/lower "class" girls more than girls that are in a better position. I've had a few comments about "I didn't realize how much you made! Who cares about a slow night or two!" when I've been stuck in the Top 1000 this month (I haven't been ranked around their in nearly 2 years) and unable to take care of the things I used to.

It's REALLY weird to me that it's happening like this, though, I kind of wonder if guys always assumed models they see talk about rank at any point were always raking in the dough and now that the numbers have been seen they think maybe it extends all the way down? I'm not really sure but it's so weird to me that I've heard more low ranked girls get comments about this or girls that a more frequently farther up.
 
I'm really starting to think this has hit the middle/lower "class" girls more than girls that are in a better position. I've had a few comments about "I didn't realize how much you made! Who cares about a slow night or two!" when I've been stuck in the Top 1000 this month (I haven't been ranked around their in nearly 2 years) and unable to take care of the things I used to.

It's REALLY weird to me that it's happening like this, though, I kind of wonder if guys always assumed models they see talk about rank at any point were always raking in the dough and now that the numbers have been seen they think maybe it extends all the way down? I'm not really sure but it's so weird to me that I've heard more low ranked girls get comments about this or girls that a more frequently farther up.

I think it is unfortunate that there has been such a weird amount of backlash to this news. I also think that it appears the "middle/lower class" of girls are getting more of a noticeable amount of feedback is the room counts unfortunately. You probably have guys that want to bitch at the top models who don't feel they are getting tokens coming in at their normal pace and are trying to speed up their tips in whatever way, but when the room has x thousand guys in there they are going to get drowned out. So those dudes instead choose to vent in a room where they know it will get noticed. By a model who doesn't make tokens with that kind of frequency of a top model who is also having a slow night and trying to boost her tips. Which is just lame, but assholes are gonna asshole.
 
Just to put things into perspective here are the hours worked for the top 50 highest income MFC models for 2015 :
Average hours for TOP 3 = 1,757.67
Average hours for TOP10 = 1,109.50
Average hours for TOP20 = 964.47
Average hours for TOP50 = 855.58

Thanks for taking the time to make that graph. I do feel it's necessary to note that MCG isn't always accurate (sometimes not counting enough hours versus when we keep exact bookkeeping). However, it's probably close enough to judge that yes, there is a correlation between the average ranking and their amount of time on cam. Just the numbers above show that. Of course, you still have some models with extremely high camscores who rake in the tokies with very few hours that tilt the scale, but overall it's nice to see a physical chart showing more hours typically = more money.
 
While many guys do buy supplies or send gift cards rarely are they actual gifts sent with nothing in return expected. Most are not so really those are still costing a cam girl something. It doesn't matter if a member tips for show and she uses that tip to buy the toy or a member buys the toy and gets a show. I would call neither a gift by the member but a transaction.
Do some guys just gift to gift? Of course. Many. I've gotten lots of generosity and given it in return. However most members want something for their money, not that there's anything wrong with it, and that is mistakenly called a gift by a lot of members as most cam girls can attest to. So while some costs can be covered by some generous members that is no where near the norm to have happen. It's lucky if you are on the receiving end to get someone to give with nothing in return and to give helpful things as well.

I buy cam girls a lot of stuff off amazon. I have 66 orders this year so far and 87 last year plus some from other sites like yandy as well (why do I have to like fin dom lol). The only thing I ever ask from them is to show me what it looks like on them. All I ask for is a few pics and that's pretty much it. Some models I have known for 5+ years so I might hop on skype for 5-10 to see them show it off but that's it. And I don't ALWAYS ask for something. Some aren't MFC models but they might do a "gold show" on streamate in the outfit I bought so I will join and see it. I don't see anything wrong with a guy wanting something in return like a few pics but of course if they expect custom videos or something like that then yes it's probably too much. It all depends on you relationship with them and how much they spent and so on.
 
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As I said before, I will and do buy reasonably priced content from any model, regardless of what they earn, because I am receiving a product in return. But a tip is essentially a gift of money and I can’t justify gifting money to someone who makes almost as much in a month as I do in a year. I also buy privates from time to time but prefer other cam sites that have HD quality cam streams.

I think I understand this as very often, in a top model's room a tip is taken as a gift, with nothing in return or, if it's a small part of a large countdown you will not see anything in return instantly...sometimes not for an hour or two.

I've watched top girls for a couple of hours without seeing so much as a nipple even though the tips have been rolling in. That is the nature of those rooms. I've seen lower ranked girls get naked in fifteen minutes for very little...that is the nature of those rooms. MFC has the greatest disparity of any site. The playing field is far from level but that's just the way it is.

There are some incredibly beautiful, entertaining, erudite girls from the top to bottom and there are some who are as dull as ditch water at all rank levels. You just have to find the girls who float your boat sexually, mentally, spiritually...whatever you're looking for. It's there somewhere.
 
I've watched top girls for a couple of hours without seeing so much as a nipple even though the tips have been rolling in. That is the nature of those rooms. I've seen lower ranked girls get naked in fifteen minutes for very little...that is the nature of those rooms. MFC has the greatest disparity of any site. The playing field is far from level but that's just the way it is.

Bingo! Someone like LexiVixi has 30K token countdown EVERY day. Now I'm not sure if she finishes it every time but she certainly puts it up there and it could be 20/30K left or 10/30K left she is still wearing everything she logged in with. I am pretty sure she does a group show once she does her "show" as well which I am not a fan of. For example, if I just spent say $50-100 worth of tokens towards your countdown, I shouldn't have to spend another $20-50 because you won't do your show in free chat even though you just made approx. 30K tokens. I feel like the top girls inflate their countdowns up the wazoo. PumpkinSpice had a 50K one yesterday too.

At least for me, seeing a giant countdown is almost "discouraging" especially if they don't plan on doing anything until the countdown is over but if you see 5K tokens topless, 5K tokens naked, 5k tokens show you actually see some progress.
 
Bingo! Someone like LexiVixi has 30K token countdown EVERY day. Now I'm not sure if she finishes it every time but she certainly puts it up there and it could be 20/30K left or 10/30K left she is still wearing everything she logged in with. I am pretty sure she does a group show once she does her "show" as well which I am not a fan of. For example, if I just spent say $50-100 worth of tokens towards your countdown, I shouldn't have to spend another $20-50 because you won't do your show in free chat even though you just made approx. 30K tokens. I feel like the top girls inflate their countdowns up the wazoo. PumpkinSpice had a 50K one yesterday too.

At least for me, seeing a giant countdown is almost "discouraging" especially if they don't plan on doing anything until the countdown is over but if you see 5K tokens topless, 5K tokens naked, 5k tokens show you actually see some progress.

In defence of the 30k token countdowns, I can see why they exist. If a new model tried it, they'd get nowhere. If a model has built up a big enough following and routinely has enough members to realistically clear a goal like that, I can see why they do it (and really, why wouldn't they?). Especially if they're fortunate enough to have a few high-tipping members amongst their regulars (which they almost certainly do if they're making that many tokens), it just makes economic sense. Why would a model with 50 regular tipping members do a show for the same price as a model with 5 regular tipping members, ya know?
 
*** This! When I do a countdown, its usually divided into 300tk per clothing item, then 500tk for the "big show". But I certainly don't begrudge those who have worked up a frenzied fan base and can capitalize on their successes.

As to what a person is doing for the tokens... I have spent hours and hours in Kickaz's room.. I love watching her shows and I've even tipped in a time or two because she is that entertaining to me... but I've never seen her naked. Every models members have their own expectation for what they "expect" from the shows. That is the beauty of MFC... so much variety.
 
In regards to the top models working the most hours, I think it's a cycle. If you're bringing in *that* much money, wouldn't you want to stay on for long periods of time to keep making money? I know I would!

Unfortunately, I don't think it's as simple as "Working more hours = Your income is increased". It might happen but it might not. I know there's been some debate about this before and we do have a thread similar to this topic about how much of being a cam girl is based on luck and how much of it is based on hard work. You can see that here: https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/luck-and-its-role-in-being-a-successful-cam-girl.21836/

Other models that pull longer hours don't always see such a great return and risk lowering their cam score (which places them lower on the MFC home page by default). This can hinder opportunities to meet new tippers. Here again, we see a cycle.

I myself am an example of all of this. I have worked a ton of hours and am not in the top 50. Unfortunately, I only started MFC in April 2015 so I am unable to compare myself to models who worked all of 2015. That being said, from April through October I'm at around 1,000 hours. I do normally put in around 140-150 hours per month. In September 2015, I started to work even longer hours to test the theory. I totaled 175 hours and did not increase my income over all. All I did was cut my cam score in half. So, again, I do believe it is a cycle.

As far as count downs go, yes, top girls can have really high ones that we can only dream of achieving. This said, there usually are smaller incentives, even if they are more hidden. I myself have very small incentives at 10 tokens per activity, when I do free chat, and that works great for me.

The model mentioned, Lexivixi, has a variety of activities such as shots, war, or dice. All of the tips go towards the countdown but you do get something out of it via the game played or shot. Those games can also result in a flash, if you win. She also very frequently gets up and does a mini tease show. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say she is wearing everything until her count down is completed (which implies she's not doing much, the way I read it) nor is it necessary to say you do not care for someone's show. Though she isn't directly apart of this community of ACF, she is still apart of our community on MFC and, like everyone, deserves respect.
 
In defence of the 30k token countdowns, I can see why they exist. If a new model tried it, they'd get nowhere. If a model has built up a big enough following and routinely has enough members to realistically clear a goal like that, I can see why they do it (and really, why wouldn't they?). Especially if they're fortunate enough to have a few high-tipping members amongst their regulars (which they almost certainly do if they're making that many tokens), it just makes economic sense. Why would a model with 50 regular tipping members do a show for the same price as a model with 5 regular tipping members, ya know?

I agree that top models CAN make those countdown #'s but the point I was trying to make was I think they should break it up into smaller countdowns. If she has a 30K token countdown, why not do 10K topless, 10K bottomless, 10K show as an example. Same amount of tokens as a customer it gives me more incentive to tip.


As to what a person is doing for the tokens... I have spent hours and hours in Kickaz's room.. I love watching her shows and I've even tipped in a time or two because she is that entertaining to me... but I've never seen her naked. Every models members have their own expectation for what they "expect" from the shows. That is the beauty of MFC... so much variety.

Isn't kickaz relatively new to camming too? Like I swear I read she has only been camming for just over a year and already this much success. I was pretty shocked to see a non-nude model as #1 girl on the site, or in the top 10 at least. She's not my cup of tea but more power to her as she has found the winning formula.

The model mentioned, Lexivixi, has a variety of activities such as shots, war, or dice. All of the tips go towards the countdown but you do get something out of it via the game played or shot. Those games can also result in a flash, if you win. She also very frequently gets up and does a mini tease show. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say she is wearing everything until her count down is completed (which implies she's not doing much, the way I read it) nor is it necessary to say you do not care for someone's show. Though she isn't directly apart of this community of ACF, she is still apart of our community on MFC and, like everyone, deserves respect.

I didn't mean it to be disrespectful, I was just using her as an example. I have spent very limited time in her room so I am only speaking from what I have experienced.
 
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I agree that top models CAN make those countdown #'s but the point I was trying to make was I think they should break it up into smaller countdowns. If she has a 30K token countdown, why not do 10K topless, 10K bottomless, 10K show as an example. Same amount of tokens as a customer it gives me more incentive to tip.




Isn't kickaz relatively new to camming too? Like I swear I read she has only been camming for just over a year and already this much success. I was pretty shocked to see a non-nude model as #1 girl on the site, or in the top 10 at least. She's not my cup of tea but more power to her as she has found the winning formula.



I didn't mean it to be disrespectful, I was just using her as an example. I have spent very limited time in her room so I am only speaking from what I have experienced.[/QUOTE

Kickaz has been camming on MFC since June of 2012.
 
I agree that top models CAN make those countdown #'s but the point I was trying to make was I think they should break it up into smaller countdowns. If she has a 30K token countdown, why not do 10K topless, 10K bottomless, 10K show as an example. Same amount of tokens as a customer it gives me more incentive to tip.
but... It's how she feels comfortable and it's working juuuuuuust fine for her I'd say.
 
I have not been camming a whole lot the past few months and this incident has caused some very awkward conversations the past few days when members asked about it.

I sincerely believe that what people do with their money is up to them. A few years ago it was revealed that a gamer on YouTube made 7-8 million in ad revenue, and suddenly most of his viewers were pissed off about that (even though they never spent anything themselves but time). It is what it is, and if everyone liked his videos enough to watch them that often, then yes, he righteously earned that.


Likewise with the top 20 models, they're popular and people watch and tip them. There are only a few top 20 models I've tipped (small amounts) because I enjoyed them. I know they don't need my tokens. but that's not really the point, it was about giving them something in return for my enjoyment of their presence.


But I really wish that sometimes that viewers or members would take a step back and understand that what some make at the top is not anywhere near what everyone makes. The drop offs are massive. Once models are rank 500 rank or worse, they're getting into the territory where it might be difficult for some to pay their bills, especially if they have kids, or a mortgage, or student loans, or medical bills, etc. Once it's #1000 or worse? They're probably living pretty tightly. Worst than 2000? It's minimum wage level.


One night I recognized a camgirl from my school. Her camscore was really low. She was so entertaining and literally no one was tipping her. I checked her mycamgirl stats and there was a day where she was online for 12 hours, and her score dropped below 200. If she made so much as 50 tokens an hour that day I'd be surprised. At that rate, it's $30 gross income if that for the night. If she was online that long, she probably badly needed the money and no one helped out. In person and online I've never seen her have anything other than an incredibly positive attitude, and it makes me sad to think about how she must have felt after that night.


But that is the reality for the vast majority of camgirls out there. Making zilch.


You know what's worse? When members say shit like "well not everyone should expect to make a living doing this" as an excuse to not tip. But you know what? That's the reality for some. The girl I knew? I don't know her entire story, but I do know that she's physically disabled (which she hides online very well, she's never in her wheelchair online). I can only guess that has a negative impact on job prospects, but I can say that if everyone who hung out in her room actually tipped her, she'd be in just a little bit more of an okay situation.


I really wish members would keep in mind that there are a lot of camgirls who do this as a job because they need to. They may love their jobs, don't get me wrong, but ultimately the purpose of a job is to get paid so that one can survive. Some work on camsites because it's slightly better than minimum wage. Some work on camsites because they can't even find a job that's minimum wage. If any of these girls were to sit in a bar for an hour, without a doubt someone would buy them a drink in exchange for talking to them. But for some reason this is totally lost on a large number of members that visit camsites. Yes, the price of a $5 drink will go a long way for many girls.
 
As a member who has at times behaved in "whalish" ways, here are my thoughts on this incident:

-The glitch is a huge invasion of privacy. If this wasn't an adult site, the media would have dragged them through the mud and they would have had to do something to repair their reputation. As such, the models are beholden to them regardless of how much they make. The models have no leverage in this situation, even the top ones.
-In my mind, a fair apology is if MFC gave all premium members a small amount of tokens. Then, these members can go tip whoever they chose. Or they can tailor this list of members to the most active or top percent of spenders. To me, this would be like Target doing a store wide discount because their credit card database was hacked.
-Members who complained about how much models make and use it as excuses not to tip were probably never big spenders or will never be big spenders so no big loss there
-I have my favorites and I obviously don't like all the highest earning models. However, as much as I don't understand their appeal, I chalk it up to the same reason I can't understand why Justin Bieber or Kim Kardashian are popular. At the end of the day, they don't impact my enjoyment of the site
-The invasion of privacy notwithstanding, the data is very interesting. What is missing from the picture is a breakdown of how many of the tokens are from whales and how much from "crowd sourcing." Meaning, if we saw a list of the top MFC spenders, it would be very useful. Or, from the top earning models, what percentage of their tokens are from whales. I'm sure everyone agrees that whale behavior has an outsized influence on model success but we don't know how much.
-The reason why this glitch has a bigger impact on the lower models is because their audience, being smaller spenders, are more likely to be concerned about social equality. A member with means is probably buying luxury brand items in real life and not dwelling too much on cost benefit analysis for purchasing such items. A top MFC model is almost like a celebrity or a luxury brand. However, if you have limited discretionary funds or living beyond your means and trying to spend money on MFC, the glitch is probably a wake up call. As if the top models are to blame for the members' position in life, their anger is misplaced because they are really just angry at the gross economic inequalities in real life. And MFC as an escapist thrill, they rather imagine it operated like a socialistic haven rather than a mirror image of real life.
 
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