What is going on with First Choice?

[Laura0210]

Need a little help, pls.

Since Paxum is so lame and i am waiting for more than 1 week to have my account verified, i registered 3 days ago at epayments.

I submitted all the documents and today i recrived an email from them - Your account has been successfully verified. "Your ePayments e-wallet and card limits have been increased. Please log in to learn more about limits"

All good but when i try to order a credit card, i click on the New Card button ( as in their tutorial) and i get at the bottom of the page a black line with Unfortunately this service is temporarily unavailable.

What the heck is wrong? Thanks in advance.

 

[Darkemporium]

This is exactly type of conversation we should have constantly among ourselves! I agree that messaging them wont help at all(i still didnt receive anything from fcp support from week ago hah) i like how @Darkemporium thinking...all of us have no proof of our money there if they shut down site! I also think we should not just wait and do nothing...and be quiet about it all over the internet...stop bealive that loosing your money for good is not an option!

OK this will be a little long post about my experience and ONLY about my experience

Some days ago i asked to transfer my funds from FCP to ChoiceBank.
My email in very bad english :
"Hello,
my question is:
If i open an account with Choice Bank, there is a possibility that my Firstchoice Pay frozen funds can be moved to the account i made with you?

Thank you and best regards"

This was the answer:

"Dear --------,

Thank you for your inquiry. I have to tell you that we technically could set up an account following the usual procedures and due diligence. Direct accountholders of the bank are facing the exact same problem as clients in First Choice Pay. Just moving amounts from one account to the other would not help much.

Best regards,
Ad Kees

Vice-President Banking and Investment Services"

So I asked to set-up the account, this was my thinking: funds remain frozen but a bank need to send me some documents about my deposit as proof of this movement.
Me:
"Dear Ad Keen,
I'll be very happy to set up an account with Choice Bank and transfer amounts from FCP to the Bank as you told me, due to have more documents and evidence of my amount stored.

Let me know if documents are needed for this operation.

Best Regards"

Choice Bank:
"Dear -------,

Due to the situation we are in right now we cannot accept new applications. I will gladly discuss with you once this situation is solved. However: I have to tell you that there are some types of businesses we could not accept.

Again: once we open services again I am happy to talk with you about this.

Best regards,

Ad Kees"

LOL
They state they can set up an account for me, then I asked how ... and the answer is: sorry you can't set up an account
I think this is enaugh to state they are playing a really confusing game.

At this point i'm glad Caporaso answered me about legal/calss action in italian language (you need to translate sorry)
"Gentile ------,

giá rappresentiamo alcuni correntisti di Choice Bank e come lei ci troviamo di fronte a risposte vaghe dalla banca. Per ora la nostra strategia é quella di fare pressioni sulla Banca Centrale del Belize per capire esattamente cosa stia succedendo, raccogliere rappresentazioni di piú clienti possibili in modo che se dobbiamo ricorrere ai tribunali i costi siano piú bassi che agendo da soli. Come lei ben sa la cosa é recente e ci siamo mossi velocemente.

Per questa prima fase che comprende la raccolta delle rappresentazioni mediante delega e pressioni sulla Banca Centrale attraverso esposti, denunce a banche centrali estere, articoli ed altro, stiamo chiedendo ai clienti che ci forniscano un bilancio del conto (carta o corrente), copia del passaporto e la firma di una Delega che ci consente di rappresentarli e/ o contrattare a loro nome altri avvocati. Il costo della Delega apostillata, spese e onorari é di 1000 EUR.

Se ha dubbi o domande non dubiti a contattarmi."

I'm ok with who say: "Don't message them about same thing 10000 times everyday", but we have to realize that our only tools to resolve this is our perseveration, legal actions and share trusted infos. As long as we don't have any official news about our money is our right to ask and expect answers
Sorry again for my english and sorry for this loooooong message

 

[tekwolf]

At this point i'm glad Caporaso answered me about legal/calss action in italian language (you need to translate sorry)
"Gentile ------,

giá rappresentiamo alcuni correntisti di Choice Bank e come lei ci troviamo di fronte a risposte vaghe dalla banca. Per ora la nostra strategia é quella di fare pressioni sulla Banca Centrale del Belize per capire esattamente cosa stia succedendo, raccogliere rappresentazioni di piú clienti possibili in modo che se dobbiamo ricorrere ai tribunali i costi siano piú bassi che agendo da soli. Come lei ben sa la cosa é recente e ci siamo mossi velocemente.

Per questa prima fase che comprende la raccolta delle rappresentazioni mediante delega e pressioni sulla Banca Centrale attraverso esposti, denunce a banche centrali estere, articoli ed altro, stiamo chiedendo ai clienti che ci forniscano un bilancio del conto (carta o corrente), copia del passaporto e la firma di una Delega che ci consente di rappresentarli e/ o contrattare a loro nome altri avvocati. Il costo della Delega apostillata, spese e onorari é di 1000 EUR.

Se ha dubbi o domande non dubiti a contattarmi."

"Dear ------,

we already represent some Choice Bank account holders and how we are faced with vague answers from the bank. For now our strategy is to put pressure on the Central Bank of Belize to understand exactly what is happening, to gather representations of more possible customers so that if we have to resort to the courts the costs are lower than acting alone. As you well know it is recent and we moved quickly.

For this first phase that includes the collection of representations by delegation and pressure on the Central Bank through complaints, complaints to foreign central banks, articles and other, we are asking customers to provide us with an account balance (card or current), copy of passport and the signature of a Delegation that allows us to represent them and / or contract other lawyers on their behalf. The cost of the apostille Delegate, fees and fees is 1000 EUR.

If you have any doubts or questions, do not hesitate to contact me. "

The translation

 

[BufordT]

I hate to say this, there is another translation. If you have to resort to class action your grandchildren will still be waiting to receive your funds. Pressure for the information may get some small results but a class action is not the way you should want this to go.

 

[JickyJuly]

I hate to say this, there is another translation. If you have to resort to class action your grandchildren will still be waiting to receive your funds. Pressure for the information may get some small results but a class action is not the way you should want this to go.

Given the crazy TOS, it would have to be a class action to get anything accomplished. I wonder if they knew when they branched off from Payoneer that this was going to happen? People who need a processor for adult site payments are obviously less likely to willingly engage in a mass lawsuit together.

 

[Chriss]

I'm really surprised about how many "official" info state opposite situations:
many message say the bank is ok
other messages say our fund will be gone in the near future
other assure our fund will be returned in some way to us
other that bank, Belize, and the world is near to hit by a meteorstrike (sarcasm) ...

... i think this is a very confusing strategy to cover another reality

Given the crazy TOS, it would have to be a class action to get anything accomplished. I wonder if they knew when they branched off from Payoneer that this was going to happen? People who need a processor for adult site payments are obviously less likely to willingly engage in a mass lawsuit together.

When you say TOS you mean terms and conditions?

 

[BufordT]

I have to tell you that there are some types of businesses we could not accept.

To me this could possibly be a subconscious validation of why the funds were frozen. Even with TOS that give them ways out there will be pressure on them to make things as whole as possible. Class action can work, I'm only saying it takes forever.

 

[JickyJuly]

When you say TOS you mean terms and conditions?

Right. Terms of service meaning you agree to them just by using the service. I couldn't find a separate TOS for FCP, but the Payoneer TOS was bleak in this sort of situation.

 

[Chriss]

Right. Terms of service meaning you agree to them just by using the service. I couldn't find a separate TOS for FCP, but the Payoneer TOS was bleak in this sort of situation.

I read 3 times terms and conditions of firstchoice and nothing wrong there!
They can take our money only if we do fraud, drugs etc... so they can t take our money just because...!

They wanted to fill our card in the begining but they couldn t because the bank interrupted their services and then they refunded us "stuck funds"...

So now everyone talks about lawyers and trials when it s a real possibility that we will get our money back...

Fcp is still Payoneers (trillion dollar company)...just think about that... and give it more time...

 

[JickyJuly]

I quoted the part of the TOS I'm referring to several pages back. Ignore it if you like, but it's there.

 

[Chriss]

Can you share a link from fcp with the TOS you are saying?

I read all of them and nothing like that...

 

[zumba2]

Can you share a link from fcp with the TOS you are saying?

I read all of them and nothing like that...

She's saying about this :

15. Limitation of Liability
IN NO EVENT SHALL PAYONEER, ITS AGENTS, REPRESENTATIVES, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES AND AFFILIATES BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY OTHER PARTY FOR ANY LOSS OR INJURY OR ANY DAMAGES, EITHER DIRECT,
INDIRECT, PUNITIVE, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHERWISE (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO
LOST PROFITS OR LOST SAVINGS) RESULTING FROM OR IN ANY WAY CONNECTED TO YOUR USE OF THE
PAYONEER ACCOUNT OR US PAYMENT SERVICE, EVEN IF IT HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
DAMAGES. THIS LIMITATION OF LIABILITY SHALL APPLY REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE CLAIM ASSERTED IS
BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE.
IN NO EVENT SHALL PAYONEER'S LIABILITY TO YOU AT ANY TIME EXCEED THE AMOUNT OF THE TOTAL FEES YOU
PAID TO PAYONEER FOR THE USE OF THE US PAYMENT SERVICE.
IN NO EVENT SHALL PAYONEER, ITS AFFILIATES, AGENTS, REPRESENTATIVES, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, OR EMPLOYEES BE LIABLE FOR ANY ACT OR OMISSION RESULTING FROM CIRCUMSTANCE BEYOND THEIR REASONABLE
CONTROL.
YOU HEREBY WAIVE ANY AND ALL RIGHTS TO BRING ANY CLAIM OR ACTION RELATED TO YOUR USE OF THE
PAYONEER ACCOUNT AND US PAYMENT SERVICE BEYOND ONE (1) YEAR FROM THE FIRST OCCURRENCE OF THE
ACT, EVENT, CONDITION OR OMISSION ON WHICH SUCH CLAIM OR ACTION IS BASED

 

[Chriss]

She's saying about this :

15. Limitation of Liability
IN NO EVENT SHALL PAYONEER, ITS AGENTS, REPRESENTATIVES, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES AND AFFILIATES BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY OTHER PARTY FOR ANY LOSS OR INJURY OR ANY DAMAGES, EITHER DIRECT,
INDIRECT, PUNITIVE, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHERWISE (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO
LOST PROFITS OR LOST SAVINGS) RESULTING FROM OR IN ANY WAY CONNECTED TO YOUR USE OF THE
PAYONEER ACCOUNT OR US PAYMENT SERVICE, EVEN IF IT HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
DAMAGES. THIS LIMITATION OF LIABILITY SHALL APPLY REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE CLAIM ASSERTED IS
BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE.
IN NO EVENT SHALL PAYONEER'S LIABILITY TO YOU AT ANY TIME EXCEED THE AMOUNT OF THE TOTAL FEES YOU
PAID TO PAYONEER FOR THE USE OF THE US PAYMENT SERVICE.
IN NO EVENT SHALL PAYONEER, ITS AFFILIATES, AGENTS, REPRESENTATIVES, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, OR EMPLOYEES BE LIABLE FOR ANY ACT OR OMISSION RESULTING FROM CIRCUMSTANCE BEYOND THEIR REASONABLE
CONTROL.
YOU HEREBY WAIVE ANY AND ALL RIGHTS TO BRING ANY CLAIM OR ACTION RELATED TO YOUR USE OF THE
PAYONEER ACCOUNT AND US PAYMENT SERVICE BEYOND ONE (1) YEAR FROM THE FIRST OCCURRENCE OF THE
ACT, EVENT, CONDITION OR OMISSION ON WHICH SUCH CLAIM OR ACTION IS BASED

Payoneer or FIRSTCHOICE?

I can t acces a payoneer account,
I just read the terms of FCP...

 

[bbbosic]

So... is FirstChoice Pay part of Payoneer or Choice Bank? Why don't we know the answer of this simple question?


When you click on the sign up button of FCP, you can find the terms and conditions: https://payouts.firstchoicepay.com/...eDebitCard.Terms&pid=Ykr3sHP2szCViGYJr25ufQ==

 

[Chriss]

So... is FirstChoice Pay part of Payoneer or Choice Bank? Why don't we know the answer of this simple question?

Dude if fcp is part of payoneer or not.... the terms of fcp are different...

Why would i concider payoneers tos if I have a fcp sittuation?

 

[Chriss]

So... is FirstChoice Pay part of Payoneer or Choice Bank? Why don't we know the answer of this simple question?


When you click on the sign up button of FCP, you can find the terms and conditions: https://payouts.firstchoicepay.com/Partners/Default/pagecontent.payoneer?rsckey=ProcessorTypeDebitCard.Terms&pid=Ykr3sHP2szCViGYJr25ufQ==

I read the terms of fcp 3 times...
Nothing there...only reasonable sittuations to loose money... not stupid sh.t

 

[bbbosic]

Dude if fcp is part of payoneer or not.... the terms of fcp are different...

Why would i concider payoneers tos if I have a fcp sittuation?

To recover our money it's important to know if it's part of Payoneer or Choice Bank. If FCP is part of Payoneer, we don't have anything to do with the situation of Choice Bank. If their account is frozen on Choice Bank, then it's their problem, not ours.

 

[Chriss]

To recover our money it's important to know if it's part of Payoneer or Choice Bank. If FCP is part of Payoneer, we don't have anything to do with the situation of Choice Bank. If their account is frozen on Choice Bank, then it's their problem, not ours.

I called directly the payoneer ph.no. and they accesed my account instantly like fcp support... in a personal mail from FCPs "escalation team" they mentioned very clear that all the payoneer staff is trying to get us a good resolution....
You take the conclusions now...

And I can tell you loud and clear that fcp support told me many times that they don t depend of choice bank in this moment, thay can acces the funds but they don t have an issuing bank and this is not a 2 day process...

 

[Mandy Chen]

But it said contact choice bank. Choice bank is still going under. That's been determined.

To recover our money it's important to know if it's part of Payoneer or Choice Bank. If FCP is part of Payoneer, we don't have anything to do with the situation of Choice Bank. If their account is frozen on Choice Bank, then it's their problem, not ours.

If you look at the back of your fcp card you can see its Payoneer...see the bottom of your card that says for online access please go to https://myaccount.payoneer.com

Either its part of Payoneer, or part of both Payoneer and Choicebank (partnership).

 

[Chriss]

I can see a normal "liability failure" here...


OUR LIABILITY FOR FAILURE TO COMPLETE TRANSACTIONS

In no event will we be liable for consequential damages (including lost profits), extraordinary damages, special or punitive damages. Additionally, we will not be liable:

1. If, through no fault of ours, you do not have enough funds available on your Card to complete the transaction;
2. If a merchant refuses to accept your Card;
3. If an ATM where you are making a cash withdrawal does not have enough cash;
4. If an electronic terminal where you are making a transaction does not operate properly;
5. If access to your Card has been blocked after you reported your Card lost or stolen;
6. If there is a hold or your funds are subject to legal process or other encumbrance restricting their use;
7. If we have reason to believe the requested transaction is unauthorized;
8. If circumstances beyond our control (such as fire, flood or computer or communication failure) prevent the completion of the transaction, despite reasonable precautions that we have taken; or
9. Any other exception stated in our Agreement with you.

 

[bbbosic]

I called directly the payoneer ph.no. and they accesed my account instantly like fcp support... in a personal mail from FCPs "escalation team" they mentioned very clear that all the payoneer staff is trying to get us a good resolution....
You take the conclusions now...

And I can tell you loud and clear that fcp support told me many times that they don t depend of choice bank in this moment, thay can acces the funds but they don t have an issuing bank and this is not a 2 day process...

Wow, thanks for sharing this important information. So our money is not on a frozen bank account of Choice Bank and it's not lost even when Choice Bank goes bankrupt.

So I hope they can transfer our money to a Payoneer Card. It looks like the best solution.

 

[Chriss]

Wow, thanks for sharing this important information. So our money is not on a frozen bank account of Choice Bank and it's not lost even when Choice Bank goes bankrupt.

Believe me I asked them in any way possible the sittuations of Choice Bank (bankruptcy, running with money, authorities pressure...)
They said every time that they don t depend on the bank at all....

And acces your FCP account and read in the bottom lines "Member of FDIC" than means the US state assures the money... i don t know the 'tos' there...

 

[Darkemporium]

I quoted the part of the TOS I'm referring to several pages back. Ignore it if you like, but it's there.

Jicky I absolutely respect your point of view but TOS are not always conform to the laws and international laws.

Example: facebook

If you write: i can stole your data, money when I want and if i want ... this not mean that a company can do

I'm sure FCP is doing best they can bcz they know that

 

[zumba2]

Here's something you can find on payoneer website. So...I guess first choice is related with payoneer but they work with choice Bank.

 

[Mandy Chen]

Found this screenshot too when Payoneer announced Firstchoicepay for the first time

 

[a_haze420]

Yeah it was established long long ago that first choice was the adult industry friendly version of payoneer. I thought everyone knew this already as they said that when fcp was introduced. They are the same company.

 

[avantgart]

I would at the end on the line hold payoneer accountable! I signed up with them! When they decided to move us to fcp they did not ask anything...just told us...i remember they said at first: payoneer is fcp now...and now they wont have anything with fcp
Fcp is closing down for good...payoneer wont help...our money is not in choice bank...!?!it seems everyone washing their hands so they could dessapear in piece soon with our money...

 

[JickyJuly]

Jicky I absolutely respect your point of view but TOS are not always conform to the laws and international laws.

Example: facebook

If you write: i can stole your data, money when I want and if i want ... this not mean that a company can do

I'm sure FCP is doing best they can bcz they know that

Prepaid cards are not banks. They are not held to the same laws as banks. FCP/Payoneer has an agreement with Choice bank. You, and the rest of us who were card holders, do not. Never did.

 

[Smores]

Does anyone in Canada have a cross border us account? I'm looking at that option so I don't have to wait two weeks for checks to clear but I'm unsure

This is very problematic even for people who are not webcam models. There is so much f*ng financial regulation now that Canadian banks will not open accounts for US citizens and vice versa. I had a sales guy at a major US bank tell me that his bank is refusing all accounts from Canadians because literally no one at the bank can figure out what is legal and not legal for a Canadian with a US account.

I feel like personal freedom in all forms is under attack now. Under the guise of protecting us from terrorists, governments have extended their reach into every aspect of our lives, and they are squeezing all of us.

 

[a_haze420]

This is very problematic even for people who are not webcam models. There is so much f*ng financial regulation now that Canadian banks will not open accounts for US citizens and vice versa. I had a sales guy at a major US bank tell me that his bank is refusing all accounts from Canadians because literally no one at the bank can figure out what is legal and not legal for a Canadian with a US account.

I feel like personal freedom in all forms is under attack now. Under the guise of protecting us from terrorists, governments have extended their reach into every aspect of our lives, and they are squeezing all of us.

I'm Canadian and I have a US based bank account and I just opened it too