Who are you voting for?

[Mila_]

Hasty reply because I am between clips and only have a few minutes.

Thank you for elaborating. Yes, much of that, I do agree with. I believe in living life with a minimum of regrets, and in that regard, if a woman wants children and a family, that is a wonderful thing. I, personally, do not for an enormous combination of reasons but I respect those who do. Women shouldn't be shamed for making that choice. It's just when domesticity is the only option that it becomes problematic. I recognize the converse is true, which is exactly what you are pointing out i.e. that a woman has failed if she chooses to embrace traditional roles. I also never said that sex and gender doesn't matter, just that we should raise our little girls to be tougher rather than the limp-wristed "everyone gets a trophy" flavor of parenting that is endemic now, and that little girls should be encouraged to be bold and intelligent rather than coddled. I just wanted to clarify that. I get what you are saying, though.

Ha, and no, I understand the notion of sex as a commodity all too well. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, one just has to learn to use it. I don't know about reason vs. intuition-- I think both can be cultivated in either gender, and it is very dependent on individual personalities. I am similarly wired in that I am more logic-oriented, and I think it boils down to a combination of things. I think if a woman can leverage sensuality, intuition, and reason, she really has it made.

I have actually heard of Camille Paglia but haven't read anything of hers. I am always interested in differing points of view, though, so I will check her out. (I do really appreciate the recommendation.) I am an existentialist in the Camus sense at heart, which tinges most of my worldview and contributes to an appreciation of Beauvoir.

My copy is in Miami and I can't find Sexual Personae online to quote something from there, but here is Paglia talking about the thing I wanted to quote in an interview:

I talk about this in Chapter One of Sexual Personae, how a penis is like an extension, it's like your hand or your arm, it goes outward from you. You are testing things, you probe. Men when they urinate have this arc, they project outward, and they have to learn how to do it. Adulthood is learning how to aim, to focus, to make an arc of transcendance. Women merely water the ground they stand on.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

No, limiting the spending of money of a corporation does not deny an individual that right. When giant corporations and billionaires can buy our elections, that's what's fucked up. I can live with Joe's Dry cleaners not allowed to spend money on politics...as long as Joe can.

Thankfully the supreme court differs entirely with your opinion.

 

[Nordling]

Thankfully the supreme court differs entirely with your opinion.

In your world, yes, I understand. But even as a right wing oriented person, I can't help thinking you just don't understand what's going on. The reason the US broke from England in the first place was not because they didn't like King George, it was because of a giant corporation that was controlling trade. Today's "tea party" has the symbology all mixed up. Citizen's United was another brick in the road to fascism (merging of government and business).

 

[Nordling]

You realize that virtual all the concern about Citizen United turned out to be wrong this election.
The evil oil, big pharma, telecom companies, did not give tens of millions of dollars to campaigns.
The Koch brothers spent less money after Citizen United than before.
In fact, the whole story about you can buy elections with enough money was shown to be one big lie
Trump spent less than 1/2 of Hillary and won. He got almost no money from PACs and didn't even really spend that much of his own money.
In the Republican primary the candidate who raised the most PAC money Jeb Bush did awful, 4 delegates. Ben Carson who raised even money (from smaller donors) got only 7 delegates. Trump raised and spent very little and won.
In the Democratic primary, Bernie took no PAC money, but raised plenty of money from small donors. He did ultimately lose to Hillary, but it wasn't because of lack of money.

This election was not the test of Citizens United. Trump and his minions didn't have to spend money, the networks and cable "news" shows gave him all the free air time he needed.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

No, limiting the spending of money of a corporation does not deny an individual that right. When giant corporations and billionaires can buy our elections, that's what's fucked up. I can live with Joe's Dry cleaners not allowed to spend money on politics...as long as Joe can.

Where is the evidence they have? Lots of innuendo but as posted earlier. This election, the less PAC money you spent, the better you did.

There is a kinda of fun documentary out on HBO called "Meet the Donors, made by Alexandra Pelosi the daughter of Democrat Majority leader Nancy Pelosi. In the film she interviews lots of big Republican and Democratic donor the folks who donate millions and even tens of millions each cycle. By and large, the reason most of them do it is A. because they have more money than they can spend. B. They believe in the cause and candidate they are supporting. C. It's cool to hobnob with a powerful politician and some celebrities.

The popular view that politician are blank slates and for 10 million you can buy their vote on a pipeline, 20 million for gun control, and 30 million for abortion, is just wrong. The politician have their opinion and the pro-choice donor give millions to the pro-choice politician and pro-gun donors give millions to the pro-gun politician.

As 'Meet the Donors", makes clear the big perk you get as a big donor is the politician will return your phone, take your meeting, and send you a nice Christmas card.

Their million of corporations in this country, the vast majority are one person, and most of the rest are less than 10 people. Many of them are not-for-profit. To say that is ok for an individual camgirl to buy an ad opposing the condom proposition, but it is illegal if 20 camgirls get together and form a corporation to sell t-shirts and sex video and use the proceeds to buy ads opposing Prop 60 makes no sense.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

This election was not the test of Citizens United. Trump and his minions didn't have to spend money, the networks and cable "news" shows gave him all the free air time he needed.

So how do you explain Bernie Sanders this election, or why Jeb Bush did some much worse than Kaisch despite spending lots more money.

If this election isn't a good test of Citizen United. Give me an example of an election that was?

 

[JickyJuly]

For those of you who believe women and men are very different, how much of that do you believe is innate and how much do you believe is learned? And, if you have children in the future, do you believe watching a small human turn into an adult could change your opinion at all? Before having children, I had no idea how much of their personality is already there when you meet them. My oldest daughter is extremely type a (always has been) and owns a significant amount of characteristics that are seen as boy. But, those characteristics make her so strong and they aren't necessarily masculine outside of the lines our culture draws. So far when we engage socially with other kids, she doesn't seem to feel the need to tone herself down, but I am nervous for what going to school might do. Will she feel pressured to fit herself in more with girls whose traits are more classically feminine? This shit eats at me.

It would be nice if we could just accept that all people are different and the same. If we didn't pressure people to fit in with their tribes, maybe they'd be more likely to reach their full potential. If we let the type A girls bust stuff up instead of telling them to calm down, they'd give more to the world. And if we stop beating down dudes who aren't classically masculine, there'd be less rage.

 

[Nordling]

So how do you explain Bernie Sanders this election, or why Jeb Bush did some much worse than Kaisch despite spending lots more money.

If this election isn't a good test of Citizen United. Give me an example of an election that was?

Bernie did quite well, and spent a lot of money. Jeb and all Bushes are now poison...no one wants another Bush.

If money had no effect on elections, obviously people would quit spending it. This election is a fluke, it's a backlash against "the establishment," even though Trump IS the establishment. The hate in this country is so strong that they elected an incompetent clown for the President of the US. Analyze until the cows come home, no one sane can completely figure this out.

 

[JickyJuly]

The popular view that politician are blank slates and for 10 million you can buy their vote on a pipeline, 20 million for gun control, and 30 million for abortion, is just wrong. The politician have their opinion and the pro-choice donor give millions to the pro-choice politician and pro-gun donors give millions to the pro-gun politician.

I don't think politicians are blank slates, but most people will put up with more from someone who is offering them something. Not all politicians are going to be up for sale on everything, but they aren't going to be moral superheroes either. Most people will go against their hearts a little bit for $. I mean, Nascar had a Viagra car. Doubt any of those dudes dreamed about driving the erectile dysfunction car, but someone drove it and cashed the checks. I guess it would be more appropriate to liken this to camgirls and whales. Watch a whale in a camroom. Lots of camgirls will grit their teeth and smile when their whale says something that might get a common dude an eye roll.

I mean, do we really believe that THAT many highly educated Republican folks don't believe that climate change exists?

 

[MFCGod]

For those of you who believe women and men are very different, how much of that do you believe is innate and how much do you believe is learned?

Personally the biggest difference I notice is emotional intelligence, generally women are naturally better at reading other peoples emotions and are more empathetic d

I'm sure a lot of women here have experienced being annoyed at a male partner not being able to understand why they are upset

RE: Children, I don't know how old your children are, I would guess not that old since you don't look very old yourself, but I wonder if the really big differences will be seen once they hit puberty

Hormones have such a massive effect on reshaping our bodies differently during puberty, it would make sense that they also do with the brain, leading to some different behaviors

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Bernie did quite well, and spent a lot of money. Jeb and all Bushes are now poison...no one wants another Bush.

If money had no effect on elections, obviously people would quit spending it. This election is a fluke, it's a backlash against "the establishment," even though Trump IS the establishment. The hate in this country is so strong that they elected an incompetent clown for the President of the US. Analyze until the cows come home, no one sane can completely figure this out.

But Bernie spent no PAC money, none of this evil corporation money that will ruin our election process. The fear monger that Citizen United will ruin our election turned out to be completely wrong. There is Bernie, crotchy old geezer, raising tons of money in exactly the right way from folks like Jicky, $27 at a time. I notice you ducked my question to give me an example of where Citizen United allowed a corporation to buy an election.

There is a lot of research that once you a certain threshold of spending, enough to achieve name recognition, the effects of additional spending are very marginal. The main reasons the Koch brother cut spending dramatically this election, is because they found it wasn't effective. I suspect 2016 will see a dip in spending compared to 2012.

I'm not saying that money has no effect, or you can't move the needle on a politician views, with a big check. Jicky's whale analogy is good one. But the conventional wisdom, that you can buy an election with enough money is a lie. This election once again proves that you need a good candidate with a good message, Bernie had a good message, but wasn't exactly a great candidate. Hillary Clinton had neither.
In hindsight, Trump had a brilliant message "Make American Great Again", and he was a good but highly polarizing candidate because he said and acted completely the opposite of a politician and wasn't politically correct. I'm not sure another $100 million would have helped Hillary, but a better candidate by either party would have easily won this election.

Citizen United protect the rights of American to get together and act in concert to express their political views. The dire prediction of the harm this would cause didn't occur.

 

[Lili_xo]

Just watched the video of trump meeting obama. I was very touched at how obama helped trump to make it go well. That part was visible. Trump spoke a few words and spoke well but obama said a lot more and it was obvious he helped polish everything tuning in to how difficult it is to just go to white house be president with all this press and all. Thank you obama (and this is not a troll attempt either i liked what i saw)

 

[justjoinedtopost]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ance-burned-for-praising-trump-s-trade-stance

Interesting.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ance-burned-for-praising-trump-s-trade-stance

Interesting.

Also, wrapped up my informal local polls today...

Asked a woman if she voted today (one that got burned by ACA). She said yep, was incredibly relieved that Hillary didn't make it in the White House.
Asked another one, a stranger. She said yep. I asked her "Did it go your way?" Didn't say a word, just started crying. She was at work too, behind a register. I kinda felt like a shit for not minding my own business.

 

[Vera]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ance-burned-for-praising-trump-s-trade-stance

Interesting.

*sigh* The TPP is an objectively bad idea. I get where NB is coming from. I wish people would quit reacting so irrationally to this election and start trying to work cohesively instead of acting like whiny toddlers. None of the protesting or hand wringing is constructive. Welcome to democracy, there will always be a winner and a loser. We as the people have to do our best for the country regardless of our political alignment and this is just silly.

 

[Misono]

Pretty much sums up my British opinion, much more articulately than I could do so



Edit: Awkward how that paused the video preview, sort of Trump like I imagine...

 

[BlairLuxe]

I know Mila posted a picture of what the results of the election would have looked like if only certain demographics voted a few pages back, but millennials weren't one of those demographics. Here's a picture of what it would have looked like if you could only millennial votes:

Even when you only count the votes of white millennials, Trump didn't do well:

Also, so I don't double post, @justjoinedtopost If you were talking to a cashier, I have it on good authority that 99% of cashiers (I was one for too long) are on the verge of crying, on the verge of snapping, or already dead inside. I can't imagine being someone who deals with the public at a near constant this week. You won't be what she remembers about today on her commute home, I promise you. This is probably just a rough few days to deal with the public at the capacity that cashiers do.

 

[JickyJuly]

What about the indirect results of Citizens United though? Pumping more money into the political system makes it less accessible to the average American. Or at least makes it feel less accessible which is damaging enough. Already, most people don't feel properly represented and really, we aren't. A majority of politicians are from the same career path even. Nothing against lawyers, and I get how studying law meshes with diving into politics. Still, people of different passions need to be in there working together. We need some retired teachers up in that bitch. Some scientists. I'd love for someone like my Dad whose worked his life away to represent people like himself in there.

Just like "superdelegates" stuff like Citizens United makes America feel just a little less a part of things. Not sure how much further politicians can push that. Doesn't seem to have worked for them this time around. Hehehe.

 

[Nordling]

But Bernie spent no PAC money, none of this evil corporation money that will ruin our election process. The fear monger that Citizen United will ruin our election turned out to be completely wrong. There is Bernie, crotchy old geezer, raising tons of money in exactly the right way from folks like Jicky, $27 at a time. I notice you ducked my question to give me an example of where Citizen United allowed a corporation to buy an election.

There is a lot of research that once you a certain threshold of spending, enough to achieve name recognition, the effects of additional spending are very marginal. The main reasons the Koch brother cut spending dramatically this election, is because they found it wasn't effective. I suspect 2016 will see a dip in spending compared to 2012.

I'm not saying that money has no effect, or you can't move the needle on a politician views, with a big check. Jicky's whale analogy is good one. But the conventional wisdom, that you can buy an election with enough money is a lie. This election once again proves that you need a good candidate with a good message, Bernie had a good message, but wasn't exactly a great candidate. Hillary Clinton had neither.
In hindsight, Trump had a brilliant message "Make American Great Again", and he was a good but highly polarizing candidate because he said and acted completely the opposite of a politician and wasn't politically correct. I'm not sure another $100 million would have helped Hillary, but a better candidate by either party would have easily won this election.

Citizen United protect the rights of American to get together and act in concert to express their political views. The dire prediction of the harm this would cause didn't occur.

The harm has already occurred. The Koch brothers have all the rights of everyone else WITHOUT Citizens United. Once again, MONEY is not speech, no matter what some old SC fascists think.

Trump's "make America great" was a great message? Trump is not a good candidate by any sane yardstick, unless being a crude, lying, racist, misogynist asshole is your idea of "good."

Trump won for a number of reasons, his appeal to the gutter plus vast voter suppression being probably the top two.

 

[Aella]

I know Mila posted a picture of what the results of the election would have looked like if only certain demographics voted a few pages back, but millennials weren't one of those demographics. Here's a picture of what it would have looked like if you could only millennial votes:

Even when you only count the votes of white millennials, Trump didn't do well:

This is probably inaccurate. The millennial map was from October and a projection. The accuracy is not promising, seeing as how everyone was deadly wrong about projections this year.

https://www.cnet.com/news/map-showing-young-voters-blue-millennials-democrats-us/

 

[justjoinedtopost]

But Bernie spent no PAC money, none of this evil corporation money that will ruin our election process. The fear monger that Citizen United will ruin our election turned out to be completely wrong. There is Bernie, crotchy old geezer, raising tons of money in exactly the right way from folks like Jicky, $27 at a time. I notice you ducked my question to give me an example of where Citizen United allowed a corporation to buy an election.

There is a lot of research that once you a certain threshold of spending, enough to achieve name recognition, the effects of additional spending are very marginal. The main reasons the Koch brother cut spending dramatically this election, is because they found it wasn't effective. I suspect 2016 will see a dip in spending compared to 2012.

I'm not saying that money has no effect, or you can't move the needle on a politician views, with a big check. Jicky's whale analogy is good one. But the conventional wisdom, that you can buy an election with enough money is a lie. This election once again proves that you need a good candidate with a good message, Bernie had a good message, but wasn't exactly a great candidate. Hillary Clinton had neither.
In hindsight, Trump had a brilliant message "Make American Great Again", and he was a good but highly polarizing candidate because he said and acted completely the opposite of a politician and wasn't politically correct. I'm not sure another $100 million would have helped Hillary, but a better candidate by either party would have easily won this election.

Citizen United protect the rights of American to get together and act in concert to express their political views. The dire prediction of the harm this would cause didn't occur.

Between you and @JerryBoBerry posts, I have discovered I may have a bit of ignorance on my part that needs addressing (as it pertains to CU). Glad I didn't drop the hammer on $10 donation to Wolf PAC I briefly considered a while back.

*sigh* The TPP is an objectively bad idea. I get where NB is coming from. I wish people would quit reacting so irrationally to this election and start trying to work cohesively instead of acting like whiny toddlers.

Same here. Got a pair of New Balance on right now, and I had no idea they were American made. Practically unheard of in this day and age.

If I decide to burn them, it will only be to give me an excuse to go buy a new pair of NB.

Also, so I don't double post, @justjoinedtopost If you were talking to a cashier, I have it on good authority that 99% of cashiers (I was one for too long) are on the verge of crying, on the verge of snapping, or already dead inside. I can't imagine being someone who deals with the public at a near constant this week. You won't be what she remembers about today on her commute home, I promise you. This is probably just a rough few days to deal with the public at the capacity that cashiers do.

I used to be a cashier too. This one works in a very low traffic store, more often than not she is just sitting their waiting, but I guess that can be a whole different kind of stress. I don't care if she remembers me or not; just kind of hope my laughing, throwing a hug, and pointing out it was going to be ok since we are all dead no matter what made her feel better and not worse.

Nothing against lawyers, and I get how studying law meshes with diving into politics.

Any good ole boy can dismantle the Constitution, but it takes a lawyer to make you feel good about it.

 

[Deleted member 31926]

...just kind of hope my laughing, throwing a hug, and pointing out it was going to be ok since we are all dead no matter what made her feel better...

You know, @justjoinedtopost, I think you could be a shitlord yet.

 

[BlairLuxe]

This is probably inaccurate. The millennial map was from October and a projection. The accuracy is not promising, seeing as how everyone was deadly wrong about projections this year.

https://www.cnet.com/news/map-showing-young-voters-blue-millennials-democrats-us/

My apologies for not checking that more carefully. I do still hope that this is a sign that millennials will not let him get re-elected, especially because there will be 4 more years of young people in the next presidential election. Even if it WAS from before the election happened, I don't think that millennials voted for Trump at the same rate as the whole of the US. I could be wrong, though. Hopefully there will be a better and more accurate depiction of how millennials voted. Does anyone know what the actual numbers ended up being as far as how millennials voted?

 

[TeganTrex]

@Misono I love that video more and more.

 

[Nikola Tesla]

You know, @justjoinedtopost, I think you could be a shitlord yet.

JJTP is an experienced troll

 

[justjoinedtopost]

JJTP is an experienced troll

Would have meant more coming from Edison, but thank you nonetheless.

 

[Deleted member 31926]

JJTP is an experienced troll

You do pretty well yourself at times. Personally I'd like to see us have a "Good Troll Attempt" rating for posts.

 

[fandango]

No, limiting the spending of money of a corporation does not deny an individual that right. When giant corporations and billionaires can buy our elections, that's what's fucked up. I can live with Joe's Dry cleaners not allowed to spend money on politics...as long as Joe can.

I don't understand this. If Joe's dry cleaners can't spend any money but Joe can then what is to stop Bill Billionaire from spending his own personal money once his corporation can't spend any? If he's a billionaire its not like a few million here or there will make that much difference if it comes from his personal or company account and the situation would remain exactly as it is now. Or is it more a case of once someone crosses a certain monetary threshold he should not be allowed to use it anymore to try and influence government?

Personally I think the only way it could work would be to ban any and all political donations. Any campaigns for public office would have to come from some central fund with each candidate given the same amount and then once it's spent they are not allowed anymore money. Of course this scenario would never happen and would be completely impossible to enforce.

 

[Nordling]

I don't understand this. If Joe's dry cleaners can't spend any money but Joe can then what is to stop Bill Billionaire from spending his own personal money once his corporation can't spend any? If he's a billionaire its not like a few million here or there will make that much difference if it comes from his personal or company account and the situation would remain exactly as it is now. Or is it more a case of once someone crosses a certain monetary threshold he should not be allowed to use it anymore to try and influence government?

Personally I think the only way it could work would be to ban any and all political donations. Any campaigns for public office would have to come from some central fund with each candidate given the same amount and then once it's spent they are not allowed anymore money. Of course this scenario would never happen and would be completely impossible to enforce.

By limiting the AMOUNT anyone can spend on politics.

 

[AmberCutie]

@Misono I love that video more and more.

@Misono I could have listened to that guy rant in that fashion for hours. How can I hire him to be my cool uncle or something?