Canadian Politics (and maybe other things too)

[Crumb]

As per Jessi's request, a thread for Canadian Politics and other happenings in Canada.

So, the talk of the day is the introduction of Bill C36, legislation that affects sex work in Canada

And go..

 

[Crumb]

quoted from another thread...

Canadian politics has always interested me. How does someone like Harper get elected, when every Canadian I talk to seems so nice, have I just gotten lucky or do perv sites just attract my kind of people?

not sure how much you know about Canadian politics so I'll just say it anyway.
The Harper Conservatives gained power with about 40% of the vote. so it's not that all of Canada is behind him, it's just the way our system works. and like every other country, we do have social conservatives and the religious right which is the Conservative base (much like the Republicans in the states)
we, the people, vote for our local members of parliment, and send them to Ottawa to represent our area. whichever party gains the most seats in the house, gets to rule and whoever is the leader of said party, gets the PM job. and the Prime Minister has to have the confidence of the house so, technically, although highly unlikely, an independent could have the PM job instead of the leader of the majority party.
with this new legislation, as well as every other piece of legislation, Harper and his cronies can do whatever they want to because they have a majority to pass whatever bill they want even if it's a piece of crap like C36. and it will pass if the Supreme Court of Canada (SCC) doesn't review it first to make sure it honours the rulings it made back in December.
I have always like minority govs... it provides balance even if sometimes it can slow shit down.
that's all i can really think of right now ...
so yeah, I think perv sites just attract your type of people and you've been lucky

 

[Gen]

There was also the robocall scandal in which Harper's Conservatives were calling voters to ask if they were voting conservative, and then if they said no, calling them again to give them fake polling stations so they couldn't vote. Not sure if that could've made a big enough dent to change things (most of the calls weren't investigated), but still important. As evidenced with the new elections act reform bill, the Cons really want to prevent non-Cons from voting. (That was the first election I ever voted in!)

 

[Crumb]

another reason he managed to stay in power is basically by politicking.
I can't quite remember the order in which it all happened, but Harper maneuvered shit so that he could win a majority government, which is what he was looking for since he took office in 2006

-a Liberal/NDP coalition formed to take control of the house, but soon after failed because Harper suspended Parliament in reponse.
-Canadians were tired of elections, and one party or the other was basically threatening to have one called because they didn't or wouldn't want to agree on a piece of legislation
-a vote of no confidence being called at a time when the Conservatives had a lead in the opinion polls.. leading to the dissolution of the current gov and forming the current one.
-also another reason why Harper and co. got voted in, is because the Liberals were going through a scandal at the time and Canadians didn't really approve and showed it in the vote. (this one should probable be first in line lol)


and in light of everything that has happened since 2011, it'll be interesting to see if the Conservatives can get re elected next year. 2015 being an election year.
NDP still has a long way to go, Liberals were decimated last election and currently trying to rebuild under Justin Trudeau (son of long time former PM Pierre Trudeau)

 

[Crumb]

and the real reason this thread was made...
came across this article in my attempt to follow whats happening with #BillC36 #c36

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... pposition/

says this was made as a compromise, and to withstand a charter challenge
the first I believe, the latter I do not
it goes on to say that should this bill fail, the only alternative is full legalization.

 

[Jessi]

Penalizing clients does NOT help sexworkers or victims of trafficking.

Like an interviewee said in another article, workers are going to be getting calls from fake numbers, fake client contact info, won't be able to keep info on where they are or who they're seeing (and anyone managing the books is going to be profiting off someone else's sex work, so they're probably a criminal too). So when something DOES happen theres way less to go on.

Not to mention that someone purchasing services from a consenting adult doesnt deserve to be treated like a dirty pervert/criminal.

If abolitionists cared about sex workers they would stop trying to take their jobs away, and stop supporting laws that would make things for trafficking victims worse. What they really care about is stopping people from having the dirty naughty sex and prostitution is an easy pariah because its still socially stigmatized sex.

 

[Crumb]

Penalizing clients does NOT help sexworkers or victims of trafficking.

Like an interviewee said in another article, workers are going to be getting calls from fake numbers, fake client contact info, won't be able to keep info on where they are or who they're seeing (and anyone managing the books is going to be profiting off someone else's sex work, so they're probably a criminal too). So when something DOES happen theres way less to go on.

Not to mention that someone purchasing services from a consenting adult doesnt deserve to be treated like a dirty pervert/criminal.

If abolitionists cared about sex workers they would stop trying to take their jobs away, and stop supporting laws that would make things for trafficking victims worse. What they really care about is stopping people from having the dirty naughty sex and prostitution is an easy pariah because its still socially stigmatized sex.

there's honestly not much I can say because I agree with you.

as a guy who isn't opposed to the idea of calling upon the services of an internet based escort, I'll be damned if I'm going to give out my real name or use my real email address from my own ip address. I don't want that sort of thing tracing back to me.
When it comes to streetwalkers, the language is so broad, that they'll have no choice to go to even darker corners with even fewer prying eyes so they don't run the risk of their client getting busted or themselves (so much for the girls themselves being safe from prosecution)

and another thing that came to mind when I was reading Genxoxo's post in the other thread... and hit upon in articles I've read, is the definition of "Sexual Services".
I mean, couldn't camming fall under that definition? it's a leap, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. It might be argued that camgirls sell "sexual services" and all Canadian dudes, including myself, are all of a sudden criminals as soon as I take a girl private? but this could be a slippery slope argument so, nevermind.

how did Peter McKay and Stephen Harper think they could get away with this. reading the legislation myself and not being a lawyer I could see that it was essentially the same thing as what was struck down. Did they hope they could sneak it by quick enough? and then let the courts deal with it for another few years.

one last thing, I know I'm not the most articulate person out there and this probably isn't the most coherent post ever but this is the abolitionist view, supposedly wanting to decrease the demand, and therefore decrease the supply.. they're not going to ever be able to legislate out someone's desire to have sex.
legalize it, regulate it, tax it. use the tax money made from prostitution to fund exit and addiction programs, because 20mil isn't going to cut it.
regulation should include licencing and health checks, if they're not legally able to work in Canada, no licence. so there's a better idea of who might be coerced/trafficked into the trade instead of trying to guess if someone is in the business of their own free will (this won't be foolproof but it's a start). fail a health check, no licence. clients should have the right to see said licenses and health reports for their own safety as well.

sorry

 

[Gen]

The one issue I have with health checks is that I think it puts the onus on the worker, and not the client, to "be clean", even though ultimately it wouldn't matter if one partner is healthy an the other isn't. I also think it'd marginalize even more - say you need health checks to work at a brothel, you contract an STI and still need money, you then have to go work on the street. Obviously I think getting checked often is good & important for sex workers, but I think it's unfair to force the workers to do it and not the clients (which, obviously most clients wouldn't do, haha). I know they do that in Australia, though!

And yeah, the idea of bringing camming in does seem like a slippery slope, but because the bill is so ill-defined, there are so many ambiguities. For example I run a clips4sale store under my name, that sells videos of my roommate. Could I be charged with exploiting her, or posing advertisements for someone else? If I tweeted "check out my friend Jessi, her videos are only $100 today and they're so hot", that could be advertising. It's so vague and general, I don't imagine it'd hold up in court (or that anyone would bother charging a camgirl for a tweet), but it points to how unclear and useless this legislation is.

And yeah, I agree that abolition is a super idealistic view (especially based on $20mill). Prostitution will never be eliminated but they could certainly work to make it safer and less exploitative. This just isn't gonna do it.

 

[Gen]

I always have a lot to say so I'm just gonna double post

There are places that do require licenses now, such as Alberta - you must register as an escort to work independently or at an agency, and you have to have it advertise in the papers, too. But of course there is no way to ensure women who work on the street have these numbers, even though registration was initially brought in because of a bunch of sex workers getting murdered. Also considering how much stigma there is towards sex workers, and the current legal risks, lots of women who might have wanted to work for an agency then end up working alone, using online ads instead, trying to skirt the cops who are checking for ID numbers.

I think prostitution is in a unique place because even when we regulate it (like through licensing), there will always be unregulated aspects like street work, the tricky part being that almost any legislation that's meant to regulate the work just further marginalizes vulnerable members. But we obviously do need regulations and procedures if we want sex work to be legalized.

I also agree that they shouldn't penalize clients for consensual sex (I am super against penalizing clients, it's ridiculous), but I guess their idea is that the sex isn't fully consensual because of the money exchange or power dynamic, or the fact that the worker may be there unwillingly. But that assumes so much and takes away all agency from workers who do want to be there, which is fucked. And arresting clients leads to a whole slew of problems like you guys said.

 

[KyraFortune]

WhyNotHarper.ca <-- There's many things I can think of over the course of the last few years that could be added to this. I wish it was kept updated, we could be at #100 or more by now lol.

I've been kinda following the whole C-36 bill and whatnot, but just...ugh. I seen a response Harper made just...ugh...this part bothered me. Especially knowing our community here and the amount of willing-totally-unharmed-ladies who choose to participate in this industry.

“I think we understand, as most Canadians understand … this fundamental truth: The activities around prostitution are illegal because they are bad and harmful for women and for society more broadly.”

 

[Jessi]

WhyNotHarper.ca <-- There's many things I can think of over the course of the last few years that could be added to this. I wish it was kept updated, we could be at #100 or more by now lol.

I've been kinda following the whole C-36 bill and whatnot, but just...ugh. I seen a response Harper made just...ugh...this part bothered me. Especially knowing our community here and the amount of willing-totally-unharmed-ladies who choose to participate in this industry.

“I think we understand, as most Canadians understand … this fundamental truth: The activities around prostitution are illegal because they are bad and harmful for women and for society more broadly.”

What EVER would we do if didnt have a rich old white guy to tell us whats bad for us. :roll:

Because that time he slashed budgeting for women's health from foreign aid programs was so good for women.

 

[Crumb]

a little thread necromancy and update

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LegisInfo/BillDet ... Id=6635303

third reading passed the Commons earlier this week, and now in the second reading at the Senate
from what I'm reading, and following #c36, looks like the Conserv's are pushing this through fast as they're running out of time (only a couple more months left before deadline)