Do you believe that rape culture is real?

[justjoinedtopost]

Ok, but you're not saying much here.

Do you have any thoughts on "rape culture" @Behemoth?

 

[EspiKvlt]

Do you have any thoughts on "rape culture" @Behemoth?

Are we going back to that conversation now? lol

 

[Behemoth]

Do you have any thoughts on "rape culture" @Behemoth?

Yes, I have thoughts on lots of things.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Yes, I have thoughts on lots of things.

What do you think of it?

 

[Behemoth]

What do you think of it?

I think like many concepts there is some clear validity to it but I also think it gets invoked when inapplicable or overdone which causes other folks to discount the concept entirely.

I know this because I used to discount the concept entirely, and later found it to have some validity.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I don't think this really has anything to do with female dominated. Little girls were always taught these things and judged if they didn't manage. Now, all .children are. But, realistically, sitting quietly is not natural (necessarily) for children of either gender. To me, it shows more how far we've gotten away from letting children be children. Schools are afraid of litigation. Parents are tired because most houses now have both parents working. The way children work is no longer tolerated in our society and they are rushed through it.


This is pretty interesting. It seems more economy driven than feminism driven though. Since most families now require two working parents, a girl who wants to have children might be more likely to put herself in school. On top of that, women have less time to waste if family is part of their goal. To get a decent job that allows for prenatal care and maternity leave means getting that degree. Does this number include trade schools? I would guess more men than women seek out trades, and in this economic climate, trade school is a good way to go. Could the 10% difference be made up of those men?

I agree there is a lot of resistance to letting kids be kids. But in general, boys are more hands-on experiential learners than girls, so sitting quietly at their desk is harder. Also, many of the high energy, competitive activity that were stress releases for kids especially boys, are being phased out in the 21st century.. Things like dodgeball, tug of war, and even tag are being replaced by kinder gentler activities like freeze tag. It isn't really a surprise that K-12 is largely a feminine institution. 75+% of the teacher are female, and slightly over the principals are also.

It is not just college, girls do better at school at all levels. Few dropouts (28% vs 36%), few discipline problems 70% of expulsions are boys. Girls get higher grades overall and girls make up almost 60% of the students in top 10% of the class. Boys still do moderately better than girls in Math portion of the SAT, while girls do slightly better than boys in the writing portion,

Trade schools aren't a big factor in US education systems. The recent crackdown student loan/GI Benefits of the often bogus For profit colleges, lead to bankruptcy of trade schools like ITT, and big drops in enrollment at the University of Phoenix. I think the primary reason there a lot more woman than men is college, is that our high school prepare girls better than boys for college. Given the big difference in wages between those with college degrees and those without, this is will pretty much eliminate any gender wage gaps in the future.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Thanks for the clarification Izzy, that makes sense and I can see your point. (Also I've blissfully forgotten about cold.)
This brings me to another threadjack. The emphasis of changing men's behavior, but not asking women to change theirs.

Almost all the focus on rape culture is on getting men to change their behavior. Now let me stipulate the following, men in the past by and largely treated woman like shit, many still do, awful behavior is still widely tolerated, I'm far from perfect on this front, the world would be kinder and gentler place if men acted more like women.

Still, since the rise of feminism in the 60s and 70s we've seen a huge amount of progress. Stuff that was common in the 60s (think Mad Men) is universally condemned even by old guys in their 70s that used do to it themselves Rapes are way down. Women in virtually all professions from lawyers to vets are commonplace, and even women in media are often portrayed as kick-ass types, who are smarter and more competent than men.

School has turned into female dominated institutions. Little boys are taught to sit quietly at the desks and punished if they don't. Middle age boys are taught how important it is to play well with other share feeling and not hurt feelings. By the time you hit college, there are safe space, classes in white male privilege, and weird rules for having sex. As a result girls to better than boys at all levels of education. Now have more college degrees than men, and with the ratio of girls to boys being 60/40 at many colleges the situation is getting more imbalanced every day.

The one thing that hasn't changed is men are still expected to do virtually all pursuing in a relationship. So much of the reason I commented on your delivery guy story is empathy. He sees this pretty girl and want to get to know her and yes hopefully have sex with her. What the hell exactly are his options? He'll die a lonely virgin if waits for female delivery girls to ask him out, same thing is true for waitresses, female doctors, nurse, or girls in his office. I understand that he is being stupid and clueless, but as the terrific Cracked article said, Harrison Ford didn't get laid in all the movies by taking "no I'm not interested in you" for an answer.While I know that Isabella has a strong personality and has asked guys, out. I bet that not many models on here have asked more than 10 guys out in their lives.(Random hookups don't count).

One of the promises of 1st wave feminism is that woman would start doing the pursuing. It just hasn't seemed to happen. I think I know the reason, getting the courage to ask somebody out is hard, getting rejected kindly is painful, and being laughed at is soul-crushing. The whole pursuing business for many of us guys is no fun. Hell even the guys who were good at it, and enjoyed the game, got tired of it by the time the were in their late 20s.. So woman don't do because they don't have to. If a pretty girl wants to meet somebody she puts on cute outfit, goes to a bar, smile when an acceptable guy looks at her and by the night she'll have had at least 1/2 dozen guy approaches her. Maybe once in a blue moon, she'll suggest to a guy lets go someplace else and he'll reject her.

Actually, woman, especially attractive ones don't even need, to leave their house. Spend a few minutes to create a profile, on Match, OkCupid, or Tinder and upload some pictures. You'll be overloaded with messages. @caireen had a contest in her room. She created OkCupid profile, with everyday pictures, and we bet on how many messages she'd get. She ended up with over 30 in either an hour or 1/2 hour. Which is what I got in a year match.com. Good looking woman get so many messages, that's considered acceptable to simply ignore them. (At least in person the girl had to come up with sorry I need to "laundry every day for the next two weeks execuse") The male-female imbalance is so lopsided that the OkCupid blog reported this amazing fact.

A guy rated in the top 20% in looks sending a message to a woman rated in the bottom 20% in looks was less likely to get a response from that girl, than a bottom 20% girl sending a message to a top 20% guy was to get a response from the guy. Think of that the ugliest girls were pickier than the best looking guys! The odds of a hot girl responding to an ugly guy were like winning the lottery. I think one of the reasons MFC/camsite are so popular it is one of the few ways that average or below average guy can get any type of response from the elusive "hot chicks".

Now, this may not have anything to do with Rape culture but I think it is related to the backlash against the term being applied widely.

With the delivery driver, he knows I'm in a relationship as usually my boyfriend goes to pick it up, there are actually a few of them who do this and it's very annoying, which is why I don't ever order food on my own. That is how bad it is, I cannot order a take away without my boyfriend present. Also it's very obvious that you've ordered food for two people. So they're not trying to find love. They're being pests because they're bored at work and want to chat to a pretty young girl as long as possible even though she's being clear that she just wants her food.

When you talk about wanting girls to chat to guys more, well they do. But a lot of men do not like it. In my experience men that I have approached have happily wanted sex from me, but due to me approaching it's put them off anything more. While if I allow someone to chase me they will want more than sex. This is a cultural issue for men and women. Men say they want women to do more work and be more open to sex, yet they punish the women who are by losing interest or treating them as an object. It's very hard to move forward in a situation like this.

As for the being approached at a bar, it is pretty much never by anyone you would find attractive. Possibly because the attractive guys don't feel they need to approach girls. There's also the issue that the attractive girls get approached by everyone and the less conventionally attractive girls can get overlooked. Not every girl can put on a short skirt and look hot, nor does every girl who puts on a short skirt want male attention. It's often the girls that these guys are approaching are the ones who get loads of come ons and find it infuriating, therefore it will be hard for them to have the chance. Having lots of guys approach you does not make it easier to find someone suitable. It can be overwhelming and harder to choose, especially when a lot of the men aren't being altogether honest about what they want from you. Many just like the chase, and if you are clear that you're not interested this doesn't seem to be a deterrent.
I can understand from a guys point of view, I have been aware for years that if I want sex it will be easy as anything. Which can be empowering in a way. But believe it or not, girls enjoy the chase too. And we're generally not allowed it. If a guy likes a girl it is assumed if he is keen he'll say yes, and if a girl chases a guy who doesn't seem interested it is seen as being embarrassing, desperate, stalkerish etc. Because culturally it's assumed that a man is sure about who he's attracted to and won't change his mind, while it's seen as the girl would (or is lying about her feelings). I know quite a few bisexual girls, including myself who stopped dating men because they were "too easy". One issue though is, while women find it easier to find sex, that doesn't mean it's easier to find a relationship. It's also culturally assumed that a woman will want a relationship while the man will want sex. Which isn't always true, but I find when I've not wanted a relationship no man has believed me because I "must" have long term on the brain. I guess the same with girls assuming a man just wants sex.
Now, if men started being more respectful and less predatory towards women it might allow women the opening to feel safe chatting some guys up. But it's very hard to be given the opportunity as society is at the moment, especially as any interest a woman gives is often blown way out of proportion. It is a cultural issue that effects everyone, and it could change. The connection with rape culture here is more in the fact that men are taught it's ok to be predatory, or that men are all desperate just waiting for sex, kind of like animals and that women are targets to hunt and chase. And because this can be so predatory it means it's hard to even the tides. To be fair, I also know what it's like to be completely rejected by someone in a nasty way. Men can be just as cruel as girls when it happens. I try to be nice when I turn someone down, problem is, if you're nice they often won't give up. Sometimes seems that unless you tell someone to fuck off they don't understand "no".

This part isn't anything to do with rape culture, though it is interesting. With what you say about girls doing better in colleges, this isn't due to some kind of extra nurturing. The statistic is only slightly higher, though it's thought girls who go to college work slightly harder. Possibly because we have more to prove and culturally aren't taught to be as self entitled. The issue is, statistically those women who graduate go into less well paid jobs than the men.
There are some interesting statistics on different jobs that used to be done more by men and are now done more by women. Certain jobs that used to be considered well paid and respectful changed when women started to do them. This could be due to the fact that in the past you could pay women considerably less for the same job. So it's understandable why jobs became seen as less valuable if they were receiving a fraction of the pay as other jobs. Perception of worth, if you put a large price tag on it people think it's worth more or is somehow better. There are lots of female teachers, but there are also plenty of male teachers. And I don't know if this is the same in the USA but we have a shortage of teachers, but they are a fairly underpaid job with high hours. Women stereotypically go into these positions because they can start part time while raising children and the hours work with their childrens school hours. It's not that men find it hard to get into the business, just that less men want to. So I feel it's not a battle to go into seeing as men have every option of going into this field.

Men and women both need to change what they believe as the cultural norm. Rape "culture" is talking about culture as a whole, and this is not just how men treat women but on how women feel is ok to be treated. Education goes both ways, and while victim blaming isn't seen as being productive, there are plenty of situations where women are being encouraged to speak out. The issue is, if men refuse to change this does little good. There are lots of situations where women get sexually harassed in the workplace by their superiors or other employees and after reporting it are fairly quickly edged off their rota or a reason is found to let them go. A couple of years ago I was being sexually harassed in work by my manager and he propositioned me, announcing that we were going to have sex. I said that I don't sleep with people I work with and that I wanted to keep things professional. Before my next shift he'd called me up and made up a lame excuse to let me go. I had no evidence of our conversation so never bothered to put it forwards, though I had known he did this to a lot of the girls he'd hired and then fired in the past. I had been told by the bouncer that if I didn't sleep with him he would fire me for being a "tease" and if I did sleep with him I'd be fired for being unprofessional. Problem is, who are you going to report it to? I've seen a girl flirt her way into a promotion, she used to sit on the boss's desk flirting every day in the middle of the office. She shouldn't have done it, but he was in the position of power and shouldn't have allowed it to happen or given her special treatment for anything other than her work. Some of the guys who worked there were really nice, but just walking through the office I might as well have been on a pole in a club. The girls being nearly as bad as the guys. There are plenty of women who make it difficult for other women to succeed. This is why I am a feminist, not in the sense of bringing other women down and trying to control how they live, but because I believe women and men need to be unified on wanting change in this particular cause. I believe that changing these cultural norms will be beneficial for both sexes.

 

[Guy]

@Kitsune, I'll never take a chill pill about rape you insensitive prick,

@Kitsune just left ACF. Thank god. I started this thread to have a welcoming and legit disscusion and she ruined it. What she was saying on here was very upseting. Glad that her trolling has come to an end on ACF.

 

[fandango]

@Kitsune just left ACF. Thank god. I started this thread to have a welcoming and legit disscusion and she ruined it. What she was saying on here was very upseting. Glad that her trolling has come to an end on ACF.

Different views don't ruin anything and she was absolutely not a troll.

Nothing @Kitsune said was personal and it was always well argued as to why she had her views.

I disagreed with some of the things she said but she was one of the most intelligent and thought provoking posters here. ACF will be a much duller place without her. If all you want is a forum full of people with the same views then threads like this one would have ended after about 2 pages, no one would be exposed to new thoughts and the same view you had would just be reinforced regardless of whether or not it's right just because you have surrounded yourself only with likeminded thinkers and driven away anyone who dares to challenge you.

Also when everyone agrees with each other you get into a horrible us VS them scenario where people begin arguing over issues that never even existed in the first place that they just invent the other side as putting forward. This video explains the problem of surrounding yourself only with people who agree far better than I can. If it's too long for you to watch then just skip to 3 minutes. For the part most relevant here.



I for one hope @Kitsune decides to come back even if I did disagree with many of the things she said a lot of them also made a lot of sense.


Edit to add I'd say the trolls here are the two people who began the name calling instead of putting forth reasoned arguments as to why Kitsune was wrong.

 

[Gen]

@Kitsune just left ACF. Thank god. I started this thread to have a welcoming and legit disscusion and she ruined it. What she was saying on here was very upseting. Glad that her trolling has come to an end on ACF.

This is really unfair. Firstly you shouldn't start controversial threads if you are going to be upset about the responses. The point of a thread like this is to get a variety of responses. Secondly, even if I disagree with most of what she said, she wasn't trolling just because you don't share views with her. To wait until someone's left to say they ruined it is quite rude. This thread hasn't been ruined, it's been a good discussion (that you have barely participated in) aside from a few rude comments.

 

[CharlieCharma]

@Kitsune just left ACF. Thank god. I started this thread to have a welcoming and legit disscusion and she ruined it. What she was saying on here was very upseting. Glad that her trolling has come to an end on ACF.

I definitely did not intend to scare her away. Her response to my post was insulting and I could have gone without calling her out if I was a bigger person(but rape is a topic I have very strong opinions about and love to discuss), but I really don't think I said anything leaving worthy.

 

[Guy]

Different views don't ruin anything and she was absolutely not a troll.

Nothing @Kitsune said was personal and it was always well argued as to why she had her views.

I disagreed with some of the things she said but she was one of the most intelligent and thought provoking posters here. ACF will be a much duller place without her. If all you want is a forum full of people with the same views then threads like this one would have ended after about 2 pages.

Also when everyone agrees with each other you get into a horrible us VS them scenario where people begin arguing over issues that never even existed in the first place that they just invent the other side as putting forward. This video explains the problem of surrounding yourself only with people who agree far better than I can.



I for one hope @Kitsune decides to come back even if I did disagree with many of the things she said a lot of them also made a lot of sense.


Edit to add I'd say the trolls here are the two people who began the name calling instead of putting forth reasoned arguments as to why Kitsune was wrong.

@fandango why did you give me a turd? I have no problem with people who have different
political beliefs. I had no problem with the fact that she was a republican or supporter of trump. What upset me was that she trivialized martial rape, said that trans women could never be women, compared homosexuality to incest, and said bad stuff about muslims. I know people who are lgbt, muslims, and rape victims. I was also concerned for the lgbt models and rape victims on ACF. Thats why I was upset. I love all of you and want ACF to be a welcoming place.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I really enjoy disagreeing with @Kitsune and reading her view point BECAUSE it is so completely different from mine.

 

[SMuser69]

@fandango why did you give me a turd? I have no problem with people who have different
political beliefs. I had no problem with the fact that she was a republican or supporter of trump. What upset me was that she trivialized martial rape, said that trans women could never be women, compared homosexuality to incest, and said bad stuff about muslims. I know people who are lgbt, muslims, and rape victims. I was also concerned for the lgbt models and rape victims
on ACF. Thats why I was upset.

If that's her opinion then she's entitled to it. You're free to disagree with it.

You came on GLOATING about an active contributor being driven away from a forum. That's pretty shitty thing to be happy about.

 

[fandango]

@fandango why did you give me a turd? I have no problem with people who have different
political beliefs. I had no problem with the fact that she was a republican or supporter of trump. What upset me was that she trivialized martial rape, said that trans women could never be women, compared homosexuality to incest, and said bad stuff about muslims. I know people who are lgbt, muslims, and rape victims. I was also concerned for the lgbt models and rape victims
on ACF. Thats why I was upset.

I gave you a turd for saying "Thank god shes gone", "she ruined your discussion" and that you're "glad her trolling has come to an end"

Perhaps the Turd was harsh however if you are accusing her of being a troll then your post gloating she has gone would fall into the same category of trollishness so I stand by it. Don't take it personally Guy, I like you and think you also add a lot the forum, just that one post was deserving of a Turd.

Just because you started a thread you don't own it or control which direction it goes in, especially if you rarely add any posts yourself. This thread is also an open question so you can't be mad when you get answers that disagree with your way of thinking.

Lastly so what if she does all the things you've listed? If you have a problem with what she says then explain why in your opinion her opinions are wrong. Resorting to name calling, or chasing away with pitchforks just makes you look worse. (This last paragraph is the general "you" rather than you personally Guy)

 

[CharlieCharma]

@Guy, I do see where you're coming from. She rated a chill pill on a pretty sensitive topic. She has insulted me in another thread. She is very easy to take offense to, but unless someone is threatening it's generally bad manners to take joy in their emotional pain or seeing them driven away from somewhere.

 

[Guy]

If that's her opinion then she's entitled to it. You're free to disagree with it.

You came on GLOATING about an active contributor being driven away from a forum. That's pretty shitty thing to be happy about.

I thought that people on here were offenend by what she was saying and that her leaving would make people on here feel more welcomed. Yeah I should have thought before posted. Thats not first time Ive made that kind of mistake on here. I made my self look like an asshole. So sorry @AmberCutie. Do you think that its better for me to leave? Maybe my social skills are too poor for me to be here.

 

[JoleneBrody]

@Guy Interacting with people who offend you is not always a bad thing, in fact without it it's likely humanity never would have evolved beyond hunter/gatherers.

 

[MFCGod]

I think it's a shame about Kitsune

If we all have the same opinions what's the point of discussing anything, would all be one big circle jerk

It's good to hear opinions that differ from your own sometimes, if nothing else when you reply you have to think through what you believe and why and reevaluating is always healthy

ps. I don't agree with name calling or being condescending though of course

 

[Carmita Bonita]

I thought that people on here were offenend by what she was saying and that her leaving would make people on here feel more welcomed. Yeah I should have thought before posted. Thats not first time Ive made that kind of mistake on here.

Your heart is in the right place, Guy. It's nice you care about the models on here, stand up for mariginalized people and don't want anyone getting upset but I think it just came off gloaty as stated before and that in turn, makes you sound unwelcoming/intolerant.

It sucks that kitsune left feeling attacked but at the same time no one can expect people to take it lightly when they get a 'chill pill' for discussing a rape experience. I know I had to ignore her myself and restrain myself from getting into ragey-mode when I saw the whole "partner rape isn't as bad as stranger rape" having my experiences with it. I guess what I'm trying to say is...it goes both ways. We all dish out shit and can't expect/predict/control people's reactions.

 

[fandango]

Do you think that its better for me to leave? Maybe my social skills are too poor for me to be here.

Please don't feel like you have to leave Guy. There's not a single person here who can say that they're perfect and has never said the wrong thing, or had something received differently from how it was intended. Besides without you we wouldn't even have had this thread in the first place and it has been a very interesting thread, I know I've learned a lot since my first post back on page 1. Just take it all as a learning experience and grow from it.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Men and women both need to change what they believe as the cultural norm. Rape "culture" is talking about culture as a whole, and this is not just how men treat women but on how women feel is ok to be treated. Education goes both ways, and while victim blaming isn't seen as being productive, there are plenty of situations where women are being encouraged to speak out. The issue is, if men refuse to change this does little good. There are lots of situations where women get sexually harassed in the workplace by their superiors or other employees and after reporting it are fairly quickly edged off their rota or a reason is found to let them go. A couple of years ago I was being sexually harassed in work by my manager and he propositioned me, announcing that we were going to have sex. I said that I don't sleep with people I work with and that I wanted to keep things professional. Before my next shift he'd called me up and made up a lame excuse to let me go. I had no evidence of our conversation so never bothered to put it forwards, though I had known he did this to a lot of the girls he'd hired and then fired in the past. I had been told by the bouncer that if I didn't sleep with him he would fire me for being a "tease" and if I did sleep with him I'd be fired for being unprofessional. Problem is, who are you going to report it to? I've seen a girl flirt her way into a promotion, she used to sit on the boss's desk flirting every day in the middle of the office. She shouldn't have done it, but he was in the position of power and shouldn't have allowed it to happen or given her special treatment for anything other than her work. Some of the guys who worked there were really nice, but just walking through the office I might as well have been on a pole in a club. The girls being nearly as bad as the guys. There are plenty of women who make it difficult for other women to succeed. This is why I am a feminist, not in the sense of bringing other women down and trying to control how they live, but because I believe women and men need to be unified on wanting change in this particular cause. I believe that changing these cultural norms will be beneficial for both sexes.

The last 3 decades I've been exposed to a lot of this (educationally) about the sexual harassment. I can't really say it has done me any harm. The bigger companies I have worked for have also understood that any relationship in the workplace can be distracting and counterproductive, and have had clear policies about separating (or removing) people who became involved.

This part:
"this is not just how men treat women but on how women feel is ok to be treated"
I have seen a great deal of from an educational/awareness point of view.

Perhaps this:
"this is about how men treat women, and how women feel it is ok to be treated, and
this is about how women treat men, and how men feel it is ok to be treated."
might be a more unifying approach (educational/awareness I'm referring to, not your personal view).

Let's keep going with the war against harassment. Let's expand our mission. Let's wage the war on all fronts. Let's tackle this problem of women flirting/fucking their way to the top too; they are at the very least enablers, and in a few rare cases, outright predators themselves.

One of the companies I worked for, there was a lot of this going on. One of the managers wound up married to an employee (one of them was transferred after it came out). He later got fired for harassment (not long term pressure-into-sex type harassment, but said-an-inappropriate-remark harassment) in a separate situation. The company did not tolerate that sort of stuff, there were regular training sessions on it, they had an excellent reporting mechanism in place, and it was still a breeding free for all behind the scenes. Women and men alike playing the game...in between the black/white cases of men sexually harassing and women exploiting the system, there is a vast expanse of grey area.

I wonder if there is anything short of putting everyone, men and women alike, in full burqas that would eliminate this. Then I suppose we would have to do something to deal with pheromones too. But I find it remarkable to hear extreme voices on the left/feminist side adopting ideas similar to the right/religious that appalled me (not so much referring to what you said here, but some of the extremist I have run across the last week or so).

@Kitsune just left ACF. Thank god. I started this thread to have a welcoming and legit disscusion and she ruined it. What she was saying on here was very upseting. Glad that her trolling has come to an end on ACF.

I have had my "Good God, wtf did she just say!?" moments reading @Kitsune posts. But there is a lot of gold in her dirt if you are willing (and able) to sift through it.

 

[heybarkeep]

Legit bummed about her leaving. Didn't even agree with much of what she said but enjoyed the way she said it. The cringe, circle jerks and pity parties will only get worse without her here. Sucks but I can't blame her for wanting to leave.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

...myself from getting into ragey-mode when I saw the whole "partner rape isn't as bad as stranger rape"...

lol that one caught me off guard, right in the solar plexus

Do you think that its better for me to leave?

Oh hell no.

You started this mess. Don't you dare try to leave now.

 

[EspiKvlt]

@Guy we don't want anyone to leave. Not you, or Kitsune. I totally understand why you said what you did, and I understand that you were just looking out for others when you made that post, but like most people have already said, all us saying "yeah I agree" on every topic gets us straight to NowhereTown.

Though this topic was sensitive and heated, the fact that it's gone on this long is because of conflicting opinions. Without Kitsune and others like her, a lot of these threads would die out really fast without much of any conversation.

I was also offended by the "partner rape is less bad" comment, as I too have been the victim of that crime, but then people were also shitty to her by accusing her of never experiencing rape and making her tell her story.

I'm really upset she felt she doesn't belong her, as she has contributed so much to this forum.

And the same exact thing goes for you, Guy.

 

[JickyJuly]

But in general, boys are more hands-on experiential learners than girls, so sitting quietly at their desk is harder.

I don't have boys to compare, but I am all nerves to send my oldest to school because she is wild as heck. I think this is more perception than reality. Boys communication generally develops slower though. And, that could lead to being more sensory. Do you think boys and girls would do better in classes that are separated by gender? I've read a bit about girls' schools, and kind of like the concept at least after primary school. Some of what I've read runs opposite to what you are saying instead suggesting that girls tend to shrink themselves in classes with boys and get overshadowed. One thing I find annoying is that I've NEVER mentioned sending my daughter to a girls only school without being told I can't "protect" them from boys. Seems like a weird assumption to make that my motives couldn't be academically based and tailored to the specific kid (whether the school choice is right or wrong). Thought dumping here.

Trade schools aren't a big factor in US education systems.

I was thinking more like plumbing, construction, electrical, media, cooking things you might need certification for that can be high earning. When I was in high school, juniors and seniors could go to Skill Center and leave high school trained for a career already. A lot of those trades lean toward men. So, I thought maybe the extra 10% not in college landed there.

Given the big difference in wages between those with college degrees and those without, this is will pretty much eliminate any gender wage gaps in the future.

Maybe! That would be great, but it really depends on what career paths these women are taking. If they're entering fields of math and science, they're money! Female dominated fields (like teaching) tend to be lower pay already. And fields that require a lot of investment by an employer might be harder for women to compete in if it is assumed they will leave the work force to build families at some point.

 

[Guy]

I just found this article. http://www.technicianonline.com/opinion/columns/article_10c164e0-1d83-11e7-b41a-3b371d42d3db.html

 

[AudriTwo]

@Kitsune just left ACF. Thank god. I started this thread to have a welcoming and legit disscusion and she ruined it. What she was saying on here was very upseting. Glad that her trolling has come to an end on ACF.

I wasn't upset. I just disagreed. This is why you have a discussion, and try to keep the flames at bay. (we are all guilty of it) If opinions change, neat. If they don't, neat. If we can all step back and look back learn how we can be better humans to one another, neato!

But don't gloat.

 

[heybarkeep]

I just found this article. http://www.technicianonline.com/opinion/columns/article_10c164e0-1d83-11e7-b41a-3b371d42d3db.html

Do you have any thoughts or opinions on the article?

 

[JickyJuly]

I really enjoy the contributions Guy and Kitsune make to the forum. I think some people carry judgements of Kitsune that lead to some of what she says being blown out of proportion. Like, if someone else had "chill pilled" that post, would it have resulted in such a disaster? And, of course, when we disagree we want the other person to see and acknowledge our side. So, even if you 100% disagree with the person, is it productive to critique their tone or a post rating? Even as someone who falls into the liberal/feminist/social justice group she tends to rail against, I can understand why the tone of her posts is the way it is. If you're going to make a statement knowing most are going to disagree, you might as well go in assertively with guns blazing.