Do you believe that rape culture is real?

[justjoinedtopost]

I just found this article. http://www.technicianonline.com/opinion/columns/article_10c164e0-1d83-11e7-b41a-3b371d42d3db.html

And what do you think about it @Guy? What is your opinion on it?

also, hate to be the grammar nazi, but...

What upset me was that she trivialized martial rape...

should read marital rape.

Martial rape conjures up an entirely different specter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wartime_sexual_violence
"A testimonial by a woman of the name Maria Louise Niyobuhungiro recalled seeing local peoples, other generals and Hutu men watching her get raped about 5 times a day. Even when she was kept under watch of a woman, she would give no sympathy or help and furthermore, forced her to farm land in between rapes."
Revolutions can be ugly.

I remember reading about women being raped when the Red Army pushed through Europe. And I wonder, what reality are young people on a college campus, who demand that a statue be taken down for fear of "triggering" someone, living in?

 

[Guy]

Do you have any thoughts or opinions on the article?

She does an excellent job of explaining what I believe rape culture is and societys victim blaming. Do you agree with what shes saying in the article?

 

[SMuser69]

I still have no clue why people get so upset about these emotes. Disagree, Chill pill and facepalm are neutral rated. As far as I know your total rating doesn't trigger any form of moderation so why take them so seriously. At least why treat them as an insult at all. Your comments are things that are receiving test scores. I'd wish the power of a facepalm or disagree wasn't so strong that MORE people would contribute their ideas to threads like this.

I don't have boys to compare, but I am all nerves to send my oldest to school because she is wild as heck. I think this is more perception than reality. Boys communication generally develops slower though. And, that could lead to being more sensory. Do you think boys and girls would do better in classes that are separated by gender? I've read a bit about girls' schools, and kind of like the concept at least after primary school. Some of what I've read runs opposite to what you are saying instead suggesting that girls tend to shrink themselves in classes with boys and get overshadowed. One thing I find annoying is that I've NEVER mentioned sending my daughter to a girls only school without being told I can't "protect" them from boys. Seems like a weird assumption to make that my motives couldn't be academically based and tailored to the specific kid (whether the school choice is right or wrong). Thought dumping here

I my high school class was mostly male (30% female) and half my teachers were male (sciences and history all male teachers, english and languages female). The top 10 in my class (half were girls) all went into college for science majors which they ALL graduated. The male teachers would often put you against another student in the class. The competition was constant and ruthless. It took awhile for the girls to adjust but were able to handle themselves on par with the boys in the end. The english classes and language classes were "from the lesson guide" ordeals where you could had removed the teacher all together and still gotten a good grade just reading the book. This is why my grammar sucks and I have to pay for an assistant but I can teach thermodynamics to an eight year old.

My sister went to an all girls high school and college. She went to college for an arts degree and forced to goto a grad program to get a masters so actually get a decent job. She basically had no other male interact other than me and my friends. This let to ton of social problems because of awkwardness around guys. She got married to the first guy she dated and divorced three years later. She never developed interpersonal skills and never was put in competition with a man to figure out how equal footing we are when it comes to some things.

At my ten year reunion all the girls carried themselves and had presence equal to the guys there. We even played some games to compete. I'm very proud how we all turned out in the end and never doubted anyone in my classes ability to succeed. We all have a loyalty toward each other years later and keep in regular touch.

I'd say the aggressive classroom was successful and it was the male teachers that promoted it. I don't know if that was exclusively a male teacher thing just it was in my school.

 

[Luckyfoxxy]

I wish Kitsune left her twitter at least.

She does an excellent job of explaining what I believe rape culture is and societys victim blaming. Do you agree with what shes saying in the article?

I'm curious now, do you have any opinions of your own?

 

[Guy]

I wish Kitsune left her twitter at least.

I'm curious now, do you have any opinions of your own?

I agree with what she says here.
"Pay attention to your surroundings. Watch your drink. Never walk alone. Carry pepper spray. Be polite to the guy that calls you a b---- because you didn’t say “thank you” following his cat call. Walk to your car with your keys between your knuckles. Make sure no one follows you home. None of these things prevent sexual assault, but rather than our culture fixing the issue, girls are taught that they have the ability to prevent it from happening." Its not just people saying " Dont dress like a slut"
Ive heard of teenage rape victims being told by their own parents " You shouldnt have gone to that party". Thats absolutely ridiculous and shocking.

 

[heybarkeep]

She does an excellent job of explaining what I believe rape culture is and societys victim blaming. Do you agree with what shes saying in the article?

Not really. Very shallow article with made up stats. I do agree with what Biden said but your confirmation bias is a bit too obvious. I do appreciate you giving your opinion.

 

[Guy]

@JizzyJezebel I dont think @Luckyfoxxy was trolling. I havent said much about my opinion of this topic on this thread.

 

[EspiKvlt]

I wish Kitsune left her twitter at least.

I don't think she has any social media, including Twitter.

 

[SMuser69]

She does an excellent job of explaining what I believe rape culture is and societys victim blaming. Do you agree with what shes saying in the article?

She still citing these 1 in 6 statistics which come from questionable surveys. This is not to say there isn't an issue but bias surveys for larger numbers distracts from the message. The response of 5000 people multiplied against a % rate then guestimated for inflation (even though the crime rate is decreasing) and you create 17 million victims.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-earp/1-in-4-women-how-the-late_b_8191448.html

Here we have an official DOJ report showing a continual decrease in reports over a 15 YEAR period. Why is EVERY other crime metric in america decreasing and even the reports from the DOJ always decreasing but the RAINN number which people ALWAYS like to jump on calculate based on a INCREASE that using a bias survey?
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf

 

[MFCGod]

but rather than our culture fixing the issue

Culture can change and be absolutely perfect, there will still be sexual predators, one would hope not as many but it would still happen

Some peoples brains just seem to be wired in such a way they can be evil and either not care or rationalize it

Maybe the best prevention would be to psycho analyse the population, make people get tested every couple of years, look for the traits of people who are more likely commit sexual assaults, if you're high risk you get an electronic tag and forced into treatment (if treatment would help)

The above would be pretty draconian of course

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Not really. Very shallow article with made up stats. I do agree with what Biden said but your confirmation bias is a bit too obvious. I do appreciate you giving your opinion.

Very shallow I agree. Also, more college campus shit.

Biden's remark raises flags with me (if taken literally, and not just viewed as political pandering)...
"“Victory will be achieved when not a single solitary woman who is abused, violated, physically or mentally, asks herself ‘What did I do?’’
Unattainable goal for one thing. Focused solely on women for another.

Maybe the best prevention would be to psycho analyse the population, make people get tested every couple of years, look for the traits of people who are more likely commit sexual assaults, if you're high risk you get an electronic tag and forced into treatment (if treatment would help)

That's not a half bad idea.

Might be able to cure all of society's problems. Murder, theft, non-sexual assaults, etc...

Let's face it sexual assault is not the only thing we've got cooking on the stove.

 

[Luckyfoxxy]

Very shallow I agree. Also, more college campus shit.

Biden's remark raises flags with me (if taken literally, and not just viewed as political pandering)...
"“Victory will be achieved when not a single solitary woman who is abused, violated, physically or mentally, asks herself ‘What did I do?’’
Unattainable goal for one thing. Focused solely on women for another.

I think blaming yourself is among first things people do when something bad happens. "Was it my fault?"; "What could I've done to prevent this" whatever you'll get mugged, lose your job suddenly without explanation etc.

 

[Guy]

She still citing these 1 in 6 statistics which come from questionable surveys. This is not to say there isn't an issue but bias surveys for larger numbers distracts from the message. The response of 5000 people multiplied against a % rate then guestimated for inflation (even though the crime rate is decreasing) and you create 17 million victims.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-earp/1-in-4-women-how-the-late_b_8191448.html

Here we have an official DOJ report showing a continual decrease in reports over a 15 YEAR period. Why is EVERY other crime metric in america decreasing and even the reports from the DOJ always decreasing but the RAINN number which people ALWAYS like to jump on calculate based on a INCREASE that using a bias survey?
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf

Rape is severely under reported. And this isnt from RAINN. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/rape-study-report-america-us_n_4310765.html

 

[heybarkeep]

Unattainable goal for one thing. Focused solely on women for another.

Yeah, can't argue really. The overall message, had he not left out men, is a goal worth working towards despite not being possible. Things won't be perfect but still worth giving the old college try.

 

[SMuser69]

Rape is severely under reported. And this isnt from RAINN. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/rape-study-report-america-us_n_4310765.html

There an article here talking about the actual questions asked in that survey and how it could lead to misleading nunbers. This is the same report that say 1 in 7 MEN are victims of severe physical violence by a partner too.
http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/

We won't get ACTUAL rape statistic until 2018 when the DOJ report that will be using data from police and hospitals that only started to be recorded in 2016 comes out.

I'm not saying there nothing to be concerned about but there are too many differences in reports for any reliable numbers. I have a feeling the number sits in the 600-800k range in the US but that's pure opinion based on the difference between both reports the general confirms total decrease in crime in the US and DOJ number since FBI definition of rape was changed.

 

[CharlieCharma]

I really enjoy the contributions Guy and Kitsune make to the forum. I think some people carry judgements of Kitsune that lead to some of what she says being blown out of proportion. Like, if someone else had "chill pilled" that post, would it have resulted in such a disaster? And, of course, when we disagree we want the other person to see and acknowledge our side. So, even if you 100% disagree with the person, is it productive to critique their tone or a post rating? Even as someone who falls into the liberal/feminist/social justice group she tends to rail against, I can understand why the tone of her posts is the way it is. If you're going to make a statement knowing most are going to disagree, you might as well go in assertively with guns blazing.

I would have flipped on anyone for a chill pill. She said later on that she felt attacked by my first post, which was insane to me because I put no attacks against her in the first post. When it comes to someone talking about their rape, you should probably not disrespect it. If you disagree, write out why. But just disrespecting someone's opinion on such a touchy topic is generally going to get a pretty negative response.
And yes, it is ok to critique someone's tone. I'm not going to listen to a person going, "I'm right, you're wrong because you're being too emotional", but totally will listen to non-patronizing opinion. If you go in guns blazing when no one is going to agree with you, you're going to get exactly that thrown right back at you.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I would have flipped on anyone for a chill pill. She said later on that she felt attacked by my first post, which was insane to me because I put no attacks against her in the first post. When it comes to someone talking about their rape, you should probably not disrespect it. If you disagree, write out why. But just disrespecting someone's opinion on such a touchy topic is generally going to get a pretty negative response.
And yes, it is ok to critique someone's tone. I'm not going to listen to a person going, "I'm right, you're wrong because you're being too emotional", but totally will listen to non-patronizing opinion. If you go in guns blazing when no one is going to agree with you, you're going to get exactly that thrown right back at you.

I figured she probably just chillpill rated you based on the "your attitude is offensive" remark. This is a touchy subject to begin with, and when you get a couple of women together, both with differing opinions and a boatload of repressed toxic masculinity, blowups like that are bound to happen.

But I whole-heartedly agree about the "stranger danger is a lie" bit. That has stuck in my craw for a long time now.

 

[CharlieCharma]

But I whole-heartedly agree about the "stranger danger is a lie" bit. That has stuck in my craw for a long time now.

I'm about to say something super annoying. A qualifier I'm sure everyone hates. But fuck it.
As a parent, I fucking hate stranger danger. In the USA, and as a white person, I'm not a normal victim of strangers and sex trafficking(minorities though? look at the missing black girls in DC. Minorities get all the shit ends of the stick). Same as my kid. The dangers in our lives are people we know. People put so much of an emphasis on not taking candy from strangers that they don't teach children and women what they should really be looking out for. What behavior is actually inappropriate and a huge red flag. Stranger danger is bullshit. I mean, there are evil people in this world. But, evil people would much rather their victims be easy targets. Easy targets are people who trust you.

 

[AudriTwo]

Rape is severely under reported. And this isnt from RAINN. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/rape-study-report-america-us_n_4310765.html

Rape not being reported isn't an epidemic. I always wonder where these people get their numbers. Do they have psychic children locked away in tubs in their basement? The reasons why a victim doesn't report a crime are vast. Some people don't report simply because they do not want to relive trauma. You have to tell everyone what happens. You have to get examined when you already feel vulnerable. Sometimes you have a fucking mental breakdown. Sometimes a victim chooses not tell. When I bring up what happened to me, someone may ask if they are in jail, or what happened after. When the response is "nothing," you have no idea the judgment that is instantly thrown your way. And it sucks.





From a victim/survivor point of view: Sometimes I feel like people who believe we live in a rape culture are just virtual signaling and sometimes they end up doing more harm than good.

This is a touchy subject to begin with, and when you get a couple of women together, both with differing opinions and a boatload of repressed toxic masculinity, blowups like that are bound to happen.

Hahaha

 

[Gen]

look at the missing black girls in DC.

Maybe you just mean in general but I was relieved to learn that a lot of that got misinterpreted and that there aren't more girls going missing than usual:

The number of juveniles reported missing in the District has been trending downward.

Statistics show that fewer than 190 juveniles have disappeared each month this year, about equal with the number at the same point a year earlier, and down from about 200 a month in 2015.

When it comes to the approximately 19,000 people reported missing in the District since 2012, 16 cases remain unsolved. Five of those involve young girls of color, including four who have reportedly disappeared since late December. The fifth is the highly publicized case of Relisha Rudd, an 8-year-old who disappeared in 2014.

Compared with other cities, the District falls in the middle of the pack, both in the number of missing children each year and the percentage of those cases that involve children of color, said Robert G. Lowery Jr., the vice president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

The whole article is really interesting especially talking about how badly the police Twitter has been handled: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.was...5dde3c-161f-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html

 

[CharlieCharma]

Maybe you just mean in general but I was relieved to learn that a lot of that got misinterpreted and that there aren't more girls going missing than usual:


The whole article is really interesting especially talking about how badly the police Twitter has been handled: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.was...5dde3c-161f-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html

I should say, look at it versus missing white girls. Yes, it is going down(crime in general is, lately). But, minorities are far more likely to be victims of sex trafficking than white children and women.

EDIT: Also, remember. The USA is about 68% white and 12% black IIRC.

 

[JickyJuly]

I would have flipped on anyone for a chill pill. She said later on that she felt attacked by my first post, which was insane to me because I put no attacks against her in the first post. When it comes to someone talking about their rape, you should probably not disrespect it. If you disagree, write out why.

I'm not into the ratings policing, but I think it's hard to dispute that Kitsune has a double standard set against her when the post in which she shared her sexual assault experience was "facepalmed" without anyone batting an eyelash. And one of those was from you which makes the whole thing smack of a little hypocrisy.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I'm about to say something super annoying. A qualifier I'm sure everyone hates. But fuck it.
As a parent, I fucking hate stranger danger. In the USA, and as a white person, I'm not a normal victim of strangers and sex trafficking(minorities though? look at the missing black girls in DC. Minorities get all the shit ends of the stick). Same as my kid. The dangers in our lives are people we know. People put so much of an emphasis on not taking candy from strangers that they don't teach children and women what they should really be looking out for. What behavior is actually inappropriate and a huge red flag. Stranger danger is bullshit. I mean, there are evil people in this world. But, evil people would much rather their victims be easy targets. Easy targets are people who trust you.

The stranger danger thing is a part of it, to be sure. But a relatively small part. Sort of like contrasting the high-profile mass shootings against the day to day killings you never hear about.

When I bring up what happened to me, someone may ask if they are in jail, or what happened after. When the response is "nothing," you have no idea the judgment that is instantly thrown your way. And it sucks.

From a victim/survivor point of view: Sometimes I feel like people who believe we live in a rape culture are just virtual signaling and sometimes they end up doing more harm than good.

You're not the only one. Listening to someone share their account in a survivors group, when they got to the end they said "Everyone always asks 'did you report it to the police'?" and then they detailed the reasons they didn't.

 

[CharlieCharma]

I'm not into the ratings policing, but I think it's hard to dispute that Kitsune has a double standard set against her when the post in which she shared her sexual assault experience was "facepalmed" without anyone batting an eyelash. And one of those was from you which makes the whole thing smack of a little hypocrisy.

I have no memory of her rape post. Can you remember the page number?

EDIT: Found it. page 3. I facepalmed because she said marital rape wasn't as bad and had a tone like she was better for being objective and getting over her rape. She could have called me out on that. I prolly should have quoted instead and told her, sorry, sucks about your experience, but here is why. But other people had already done so before I read it.

 

[JickyJuly]

I have no memory of her rape post. Can you remember the page number?

 

[AudriTwo]

I should say, look at it versus missing white girls. Yes, it is going down(crime in general is, lately). But, minorities are far more likely to be victims of sex trafficking than white children and women.

EDIT: Also, remember. The USA is about 68% white and 12% black IIRC.

Why do you think minorities are more likely victims of sex trafficking? Just wondering your opinion.

 

[Gen]

I should say, look at it versus missing white girls. Yes, it is going down(crime in general is, lately). But, minorities are far more likely to be victims of sex trafficking than white children and women.

EDIT: Also, remember. The USA is about 68% white and 12% black IIRC.

Right, I just figured since you mentioned DC specifically and there's so much talk about that right now, you might not have seen the updates, since (as I shared in my post), DC's racial makeup of missing kids is not the worst compared as other cities. I was personally glad to hear things weren't as bad as they were being made out to be on social media (though, obviously, they're not good and the racial divide is important) so I thought it might be helpful info to share.

 

[CharlieCharma]

View attachment 69631 View attachment 69632

Yeah, I was facepalming for the feminist brownie points bullshit.

My rape doesn't effect me. I trust dudes. I don't care. I don't have trouble sleeping at night. But I'm not going to be condescending to women who were affected negatively by theirs.
My post on here wasn't patronizing to other peoples experiences.

 

[CharlieCharma]

Why do you think minorities are more likely victims of sex trafficking? Just wondering your opinion.

Because they show up in the news less often. People care less about missing minorities.

 

[AudriTwo]

Because they show up in the news less often. People care less about missing minorities.

But there are thousands of white children that go missing and don't show up in the news. I don't think that is the case. In my area they report on all missing children. I think it's a lot of variables. Like who are the perpetrators and why did they target that child? Could it be minorities are usually in the low income bracket. Poor people are most likely to be the victim of a crime.