Encouraging tipping

[happyguy]

Maybe this has been discussed before...

I am a knight for several models and I get so frustrated when one user does all the tipping and brings (sometimes) hundreds of other users with tokens into the room and they just sit by and watch for free.

What (polite) words can I say in public chat to encourage the others?

Any suggestions gratefully received. Thank you

 

[misterical]

There’s no point in talking about mods/knights that cause many problems, is there? Mods/knights who aren’t humble tend to think of themselves as special, and that’s why they cause problems.

Literally, the point of your first post was to claim that Moderators/Knights ARE special.

 

[KingMarti]

There’s no point in talking about mods/knights that cause many problems, is there? Mods/knights who aren’t humble tend to think of themselves as special, and that’s why they cause problems. That’s exactly an example of someone unqualified. Talking about losers doesn’t serve any purpose.

You realize that you are the one saying that mods and knights are special right, so by your own logic you would be a bad mod so not really in a position to talk on the subject.

It’s unfortunate that, despite your extensive experience, you haven’t seen any success stories. Models are busy and don’t have the chance to check other rooms often.

Models have no reason to be in other room (unless you mean their room on other sites). If you do mean their rooms on other sites, it's really not that hard to manage. We even have tools for consolidating chat which makes it even easier. Mods cause drama where drama is not needed.

In fact, users are the ones who visit other rooms more frequently and see both success and failure examples. I may not have been watching for as many years as you, but I do know a few success stories, and I feel lucky to have seen them.

There are 100's of threads on here about poor user experiences with mods. You arnt in a position to know if its a success story because you only see one side of it, you cant deem the success or failure of something with only a fraction of the total information.

 

[Smoothie]

There’s no point in talking about mods/knights that cause many problems, is there?

If you’re trying to put blinders on and pretend there is no problem, then no. Discussing the many problems with mods/knights will not serve that purpose.

If you’re trying to understand reality, well… the problems are a part of it.

If you’re buying a car and notice it’s leaking oil, do you ignore that just because it’s a problem, and problems aren’t worth discussing?

 

[KingMarti]

If you’re buying a car and notice it’s leaking oil, do you ignore that just because it’s a problem, and problems aren’t worth discussing?

I offer them double the asking price because it has variable weight reduction

 

[honeybee]

The part that I’ve bolded, IMO, is the part of the equation that @honeybee is sort of tip-toeing around. The focus has been on practical reasons a mod/knight is not the same as a “normal member,” but I noticed the “helping my friend” bit continues to slide into the explanation.

I’d wager that the psychological need to feel like you’re saving the day for your favorite model is at the heart of your insistence that a mod/knight is just a little more special that everyone else.

Models are professionals. Don’t underestimate that fact. Chances are, she spotted you as a member with a high likelihood for being loyal to her room based on your behavior, and knighting you was a business move to reinforce that loyalty. Now, you are obligated to “help your friend,” right?

(I know that sounds pretty cynical, but life be that way sometimes.)

Please read the quote below. Are you saying that I am underestimating professionals?

While I understand your perspective, I don't mean to belittle anyone. The point I’m making is about the nature of volunteer support. A moderator or knight, even without being paid, may still feel a genuine desire to help, out of respect for the model or the community. It’s not about suggesting the model can't handle things on their own, but rather about having a supportive dynamic that can make the environment even better. As for 'leaving it to the professionals,' I agree that some models prefer to manage everything themselves, but I still think there’s value in having people who are motivated by passion, not just payment, to help enhance the experience.

 

[honeybee]

If you’re trying to put blinders on and pretend there is no problem, then no. Discussing the many problems with mods/knights will not serve that purpose.

If you’re trying to understand reality, well… the problems are a part of it.

If you’re buying a car and notice it’s leaking oil, do you ignore that just because it’s a problem, and problems aren’t worth discussing?

I’m well aware that there are problematic people. However, I also know that talking about them only leads to mockery.
But what about someone who bought a car with an oil leak? They made a mistake. Shouldn’t they have chosen a proper car instead?

 

[Schnauzevoll]

I ban a lot of ultimate members for this, there's a difference when someone has offered you their time to taking it. Since PM is a tip menu option for me, first time they PM without tipping, verbal warning, 2nd pm without tipping written warning, 3rd pm with out tipping ban. I find it disrespectful when people think that they pay someone who isnt me that they get free access to something that I charge for. It actually annoys me that sites include the ability to PM as part of their subscription service because they are selling you something they dont own (the models attention).

my untipped pms just get thrown into the archive, there they can get off sending and sending and sending. i only keep my fanclub ppl in my inbox and the guys that tipped for it

 

[honeybee]

You realize that you are the one saying that mods and knights are special right, so by your own logic you would be a bad mod so not really in a position to talk on the subject.

Models have no reason to be in other room (unless you mean their room on other sites). If you do mean their rooms on other sites, it's really not that hard to manage. We even have tools for consolidating chat which makes it even easier. Mods cause drama where drama is not needed.

There are 100's of threads on here about poor user experiences with mods. You arnt in a position to know if its a success story because you only see one side of it, you cant deem the success or failure of something with only a fraction of the total information.

I can’t help but feel the limits of my expression and English ability. I’m not saying that mods/knights are special in terms of status. Isn’t there a difference between having a role expected by the model and being considered special as a status? What I’m saying is that they have a role expected by the model. I don’t categorize that as being "special." Does having a role automatically make someone special?

Also, I understand that you think models don’t need to be in other rooms. There may be models who think that way, but there are also models in the same ranking categories who want to understand why certain models are popular. There are many different perspectives on this.

As for not being in a position to know success stories—well, isn’t that something you can’t know for sure from your side?

 

[Smoothie]

Please read the quote below. Are you saying that I am underestimating professionals?

That quote shows that you acknowledge the technical aspects of being a professional (the mechanics of running a room, etc.). I’m talking about the tactical aspects, which you honestly seem to be ignoring.

For example: being able to sense when a tipper is a worthwhile mark, who would feel a sense of honor and loyalty from being modded/knighted, which is something that could lead to more future tips.

I’m talking about the model’s ability to figure you out, like a salesperson that notices your eyes light up when they tell you that you look great standing next to that shiny new sportscar.

You seem like the type of guy who is extremely passionate about your perceived role in the success of your favorite model’s room. All I’m saying is, I think your favorite model probably saw that coming from a mile away.

But what about someone who bought a car with an oil leak? They made a mistake. Shouldn’t they have chosen a proper car instead?

Yes. And they probably would have, if they didn’t willfully ignore the “problem” because they didn’t think it was useful to address problems.

 

[honeybee]

That quote shows that you acknowledge the technical aspects of being a professional (the mechanics of running a room, etc.). I’m talking about the tactical aspects, which you honestly seem to be ignoring.

For example: being able to sense when a tipper is a worthwhile mark, who would feel a sense of honor and loyalty from being modded/knighted, which is something that could lead to more future tips.

I’m talking about the model’s ability to figure you out, like a salesperson that notices your eyes light up when they tell you that you look great standing next to that shiny new sportscar.

You seem like the type of guy who is extremely passionate about your perceived role in the success of your favorite model’s room. All I’m saying is, I think your favorite model probably saw that coming from a mile away.



Yes. And they probably would have, if they didn’t willfully ignore the “problem” because they didn’t think it was useful to address problems.

Are you reading the quote below?

Needless to say, the requirement for a mod/knight is simply to be someone who can help the model feel comfortable. That requirement might include people who tip a lot, those who are friends, those with insider knowledge, or, as you mentioned, those who have technical knowledge. There are various factors. I understand that your choice of mods/knights is to help clear goals.

 

[misterical]

Needless to say, the requirement for a mod/knight is simply to be someone who can help the model feel comfortable. That requirement might include people who tip a lot, those who are friends, those with insider knowledge, or, as you mentioned, those who have technical knowledge. There are various factors. I understand that your choice of mods/knights is to help clear goals.

I'd say I'm many of those things to my favourite model who I moderate for. I certainly consider myself a friend, built up over years and I certainly have some technical knowledge based on my skillset which comes in handy for her sometimes. I'm a decent tipper and I've hopefully added levity at times.

Does any of that mean that I should wade in and get involved in the room or interact with members? Of course it doesn't. I don't have a fucking clue how to be a cam model. I can't see the things in the interface that she can see. I've no idea about members beyond my own perception. Sometimes I test myself by trying to guess whether a member is going to be a good tipper or a timewaster. I'm wrong as often as I'm right. I just keep out of it all. Not my business.

 

[KingMarti]

I can’t help but feel the limits of my expression and English ability. I’m not saying that mods/knights are special in terms of status. Isn’t there a difference between having a role expected by the model and being considered special as a status? What I’m saying is that they have a role expected by the model. I don’t categorize that as being "special." Does having a role automatically make someone special?

It dost automatically make them special, it doesn't make them special at all. That's the point I was making, mods / knights are the same as any other member they are not special.

Also, I understand that you think models don’t need to be in other rooms. There may be models who think that way, but there are also models in the same ranking categories who want to understand why certain models are popular. There are many different perspectives on this.

there is no reason for a model to be in another models room while they are broadcasting, end of story they should be focusing on their own room. If they want to understand why things are popular they do that in their off hours, the only reason to do it while online is to try and poach members from other models rooms.

As for not being in a position to know success stories—well, isn’t that something you can’t know for sure from your side?

How can you gauge is something is a success if you dont have access to all the information to determine it?

 

[honeybee]

It dost automatically make them special, it doesn't make them special at all. That's the point I was making, mods / knights are the same as any other member they are not special.

there is no reason for a model to be in another models room while they are broadcasting, end of story they should be focusing on their own room. If they want to understand why things are popular they do that in their off hours, the only reason to do it while online is to try and poach members from other models rooms.


How can you gauge is something is a success if you dont have access to all the information to determine it?

It seems we are finally reaching an agreement on this point. Mods/knights have a role, but they are not special. Can we agree on that? Were you also denying the role itself? That part seems like it will never be bridged.

Of course, during broadcasts, models are very busy, especially if they are popular. However, it might be possible for the model to ask mods/knights about why other models are popular. And that has nothing to do with stealing customers. It’s about how the model expresses themselves, which is the essence of it.

As for whether someone is successful or not, that is ultimately for the model to decide. Some might measure success by the amount of tips, while others might go by the number of people tipping. The criteria for success are in the hands of the model, not the mods/knights. Mods/knights are simply there to put in the passion to help her feel successful. Of course, without compensation. While tipping, too.

 

[LeonF1]

I'm curious if you've ever asked the models what their expectations of you are and what they said.

Also, you may want to take a step back and ask yourself who's really getting what out of this relationship. And maybe reflect on exactly what it cost you to get to where you are.

 

[yummybrownfox]

And certainly never on someone else's behalf. I see this all the time. Stop it, if anyone is doing this. It just encourages them to not tip.

That used to get on my nerves when guys would do that on MFC. Either tipping on the behalf of another member who’s commenting that he wants to see tits or ass, or tipping on behalf of another member who wants a raffle ticket for a Skype show. I’ve had to PM a MFC regular to politely ask him to please stop doing that. And non-tippers don’t deserve to win raffles anyway. Lol. While the member’s heart may be in the right place, PLEASE stop doing stuff like this, guys. It’s so uncomfortable.

And if I gotta hear a member talk about how he just spent all this money at GameStop, and he’s just sitting in my free chat not tipping…yet making played out comments about how he hopes my tits accidentally fall out (), I’m gonna say something…..

 

[KingMarti]

It seems we are finally reaching an agreement on this point. Mods/knights have a role, but they are not special. Can we agree on that? Were you also denying the role itself? That part seems like it will never be bridged.

I dont see how I could deny the role, it's a thing that exists, but the role of a mod is the same as every other user in the room, to tip towards shows and to enjoy the shows they tip for.

Of course, during broadcasts, models are very busy, especially if they are popular. However, it might be possible for the model to ask mods/knights about why other models are popular. And that has nothing to do with stealing customers. It’s about how the model expresses themselves, which is the essence of it.

A member going to a different room is different from a model going to a different room. From just looking at a room there is no way to know what a model has the popularity that they have, you can take 2 models that look exactly the same, do exactly the same shows and they can have wildly different results. Without knowing everything that the model is doing both on and off cam there is no way to know what is causing popularity, then there is also the added mix in of luck, a member that one day went in, spent a bunch improved the placement which had a knock on effect even after they left.

As for whether someone is successful or not, that is ultimately for the model to decide. Some might measure success by the amount of tips, while others might go by the number of people tipping. The criteria for success are in the hands of the model, not the mods/knights. Mods/knights are simply there to put in the passion to help her feel successful. Of course, without compensation. While tipping, too.

Yes that is exactly my point, you wouldnt be in a position to judge the level of success because only the model has access to the information that would determine it.

Generally when you are doing a commission only sales job (which camming is) the goal is to make as much commission as you can, so income would generally be the measure of success, but you are right that any day the focus may be on something else depending on what the model deems the most important thing for their business at that time, but more often than not, it's going to be income because at the end of the day that's what matters when working, the amount you get out for the time you put in.

 

[honeybee]

I dont see how I could deny the role, it's a thing that exists, but the role of a mod is the same as every other user in the room, to tip towards shows and to enjoy the shows they tip for.

A member going to a different room is different from a model going to a different room. From just looking at a room there is no way to know what a model has the popularity that they have, you can take 2 models that look exactly the same, do exactly the same shows and they can have wildly different results. Without knowing everything that the model is doing both on and off cam there is no way to know what is causing popularity, then there is also the added mix in of luck, a member that one day went in, spent a bunch improved the placement which had a knock on effect even after they left.

Yes that is exactly my point, you wouldnt be in a position to judge the level of success because only the model has access to the information that would determine it.

Generally when you are doing a commission only sales job (which camming is) the goal is to make as much commission as you can, so income would generally be the measure of success, but you are right that any day the focus may be on something else depending on what the model deems the most important thing for their business at that time, but more often than not, it's going to be income because at the end of the day that's what matters when working, the amount you get out for the time you put in.

There seems to be a subtle difference in how we view the role, and since that gap doesn’t appear bridgeable, I’ll stop debating that point. It’s clearly a stalemate.

Personally, I believe that users (including mods/knights, of course) actually have more opportunities than models to understand why a model is popular. Users visit other models’ rooms and might see things like a popular model sending a thank-you PM for just a small tip during off-cam time. They may also notice if a model’s tip menu is priced higher or lower than average—these are things that might be easier for users to grasp than for models themselves. As you pointed out, there is also a factor of luck. But over the course of one month, three months, or six months, the impact of luck tends to average out.

As for the criteria for success, I also believe that it’s very important for mods/knights to understand what the model considers to be success. Of course, income is important. But some models may set their prices a bit lower and hope that users will keep coming back in the long term. The strategy depends on the model’s stage or circumstances, and there really is a wide range. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that any mod/knight who tries to impose their own definition of success on the model has already failed in their role.

 

[KingMarti]

There seems to be a subtle difference in how we view the role, and since that gap doesn’t appear bridgeable, I’ll stop debating that point. It’s clearly a stalemate.

Personally, I believe that users (including mods/knights, of course) actually have more opportunities than models to understand why a model is popular. Users visit other models’ rooms and might see things like a popular model sending a thank-you PM for just a small tip during off-cam time. They may also notice if a model’s tip menu is priced higher or lower than average—these are things that might be easier for users to grasp than for models themselves. As you pointed out, there is also a factor of luck. But over the course of one month, three months, or six months, the impact of luck tends to average out.

A lot of this is really inconsequential, a bigger impact is the things you wont see in the room, like how often they are talking to members when they arnt online, how and where they are promoting themselves will have a bigger impact on popularity than anything that happens in their room. Price really isnt an issue when it comes to sales, as long as you can convince someone of value then you can sell at any price so a higher or lower priced tip menu doesnt have much impact in anything.

For low pricing to work you need high volume, a model that dosnt have much traffic will ultimatly earn less than a model with higher pricing with little traffic even though the lower price might seem like they are doing more. This is getting pretty heavy into sales theory though. Essentially everything comes down to marketing, so focusing on whats happening in a room is putting attention on the effect not the cause.

As for the criteria for success, I also believe that it’s very important for mods/knights to understand what the model considers to be success. Of course, income is important. But some models may set their prices a bit lower and hope that users will keep coming back in the long term. The strategy depends on the model’s stage or circumstances, and there really is a wide range. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that any mod/knight who tries to impose their own definition of success on the model has already failed in their role.

Everyone in the room knows what the models goal is, that is why the model sets a goal. There really isnt any need for mods to have any more information of the models plans than anyone else.

 

[Vixxen81]

LOL at mods thinking they are agents for models. Get out of here with that nonsense. The absurdity is large.

 

[misterical]

LOL at mods thinking they are agents for models. Get out of here with that nonsense. The absurdity is large.

Not mods per se. Assholes. It's just that some assholes are also mods .

 

[misterical]

As for the criteria for success, I also believe that it’s very important for mods/knights to understand what the model considers to be success. Of course, income is important. But some models may set their prices a bit lower and hope that users will keep coming back in the long term. The strategy depends on the model’s stage or circumstances, and there really is a wide range. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that any mod/knight who tries to impose their own definition of success on the model has already failed in their role.

Cam models don't need the input of weird management consultant fetishists. Just more guys wanking and paying for the privilege of doing so.

 

[honeybee]

A lot of this is really inconsequential, a bigger impact is the things you wont see in the room, like how often they are talking to members when they arnt online, how and where they are promoting themselves will have a bigger impact on popularity than anything that happens in their room. Price really isnt an issue when it comes to sales, as long as you can convince someone of value then you can sell at any price so a higher or lower priced tip menu doesnt have much impact in anything.

For low pricing to work you need high volume, a model that dosnt have much traffic will ultimatly earn less than a model with higher pricing with little traffic even though the lower price might seem like they are doing more. This is getting pretty heavy into sales theory though. Essentially everything comes down to marketing, so focusing on whats happening in a room is putting attention on the effect not the cause.



Everyone in the room knows what the models goal is, that is why the model sets a goal. There really isnt any need for mods to have any more information of the models plans than anyone else.

You are a model, and your strategy is something you should plan yourself, and I have no intention of arguing about that. Regarding knowledge management for mods/knights, that’s also your decision. However, I should point out that you are not the standard. I wish you the best of success.



What follows are simply my thoughts.

Isn't there a severe lack of perspective here? If you're talking about how often models interact with members offline, mods/knights are the ones talking to them, so we know this already. Naturally, by the time users reach the Gold League, they’ll notice that other popular models are probably doing the same thing. As for where and how models are promoting themselves, who is the target of these promotions? Isn’t it the users? Is there really anyone who doesn’t notice this?

Also, regarding your argument that "if you focus on what's happening in the room, you're missing the cause of the impact," it seems as though you're suggesting that the outside factors are the important ones. Aren't you ignoring the reality that actions within the room have the most direct impact? While promotions and external activities are certainly part of success, the value gained by customers when they are in the room should be the most influential. The interactions and quality of entertainment in the room are the most important, and external activities and promotions only complement that—they cannot be the fundamental cause of success.

If marketing can truly ignore pricing strategy, feel free to go ahead.

 

[Maxi]

Well, I have to say - you sound like the MOST fun.

 

[AudriTwo]

other camsites do just fine without mods/knights. they only started being a thing once CB started up. they are a feel-good title with the feel of responsibility.

its psychology.

 

[KingMarti]

You are a model, and your strategy is something you should plan yourself, and I have no intention of arguing about that. Regarding knowledge management for mods/knights, that’s also your decision. However, I should point out that you are not the standard. I wish you the best of success.



What follows are simply my thoughts.

Isn't there a severe lack of perspective here? If you're talking about how often models interact with members offline, mods/knights are the ones talking to them, so we know this already. Naturally, by the time users reach the Gold League, they’ll notice that other popular models are probably doing the same thing. As for where and how models are promoting themselves, who is the target of these promotions? Isn’t it the users? Is there really anyone who doesn’t notice this?

There's honestly so much that you dont know about this business just to give you an understanding of the things you are wrong about would take a year, you have assumptions that are based on nothing but beliefs.

As for marketing, buisnesses run marketing campaigns to generate new customers, to get re-occuring customers etc I really cba to go into detail on it it's a really big subject. As for talking with members offline, no it's not just mods and knights, talking with members could be all members, could be big tippers, again it's just another form of marketing that models can do.

Also, regarding your argument that "if you focus on what's happening in the room, you're missing the cause of the impact," it seems as though you're suggesting that the outside factors are the important ones. Aren't you ignoring the reality that actions within the room have the most direct impact? While promotions and external activities are certainly part of success, the value gained by customers when they are in the room should be the most influential. The interactions and quality of entertainment in the room are the most important, and external activities and promotions only complement that—they cannot be the fundamental cause of success.

If marketing can truly ignore pricing strategy, feel free to go ahead.

Yes the outside factors are what influence what happens in regards to traffic, popularity etc. Think of it as a rocket, the outside factors are stage 1, they are what get things moving, get traffic into the room, get the name recognized etc, only after that do actions in the room matter. Let's say you start a new room, you get a little bump from the promotion of new models, the thing that is going to take you from 100 viewers to 2k viewers isnt just being online, it's going to be from people learning who you are when you are not online (ie/ marketing) this could be you yourself posting in reddit threads or it could be members that saw you online talking about your show in reddit thread (other forums, discords etc). Without marketing it's like opening up a store and assuming everyone will just know you are there because you opened.

Marketing a product the right way, price dosnt matter, why do you think Gucci can sell a tshirt for 2k while wall mart has them for $10, it;s because of their marketing, you can argue that the Gucci tshirt is better quality, but there is a point where quality dosnt increase anymore and all that is left to make you want to pay the price Gucci is asking is how they have marketed their brand.

 

[honeybee]

There's honestly so much that you dont know about this business just to give you an understanding of the things you are wrong about would take a year, you have assumptions that are based on nothing but beliefs.

As for marketing, buisnesses run marketing campaigns to generate new customers, to get re-occuring customers etc I really cba to go into detail on it it's a really big subject. As for talking with members offline, no it's not just mods and knights, talking with members could be all members, could be big tippers, again it's just another form of marketing that models can do.

Yes the outside factors are what influence what happens in regards to traffic, popularity etc. Think of it as a rocket, the outside factors are stage 1, they are what get things moving, get traffic into the room, get the name recognized etc, only after that do actions in the room matter. Let's say you start a new room, you get a little bump from the promotion of new models, the thing that is going to take you from 100 viewers to 2k viewers isnt just being online, it's going to be from people learning who you are when you are not online (ie/ marketing) this could be you yourself posting in reddit threads or it could be members that saw you online talking about your show in reddit thread (other forums, discords etc). Without marketing it's like opening up a store and assuming everyone will just know you are there because you opened.

Marketing a product the right way, price dosnt matter, why do you think Gucci can sell a tshirt for 2k while wall mart has them for $10, it;s because of their marketing, you can argue that the Gucci tshirt is better quality, but there is a point where quality dosnt increase anymore and all that is left to make you want to pay the price Gucci is asking is how they have marketed their brand.

Let me say it again, it's your room, so you should believe what you believe.


The following are just my thoughts.

First, this model's explanation of marketing is overly general and doesn't seem to align with the "reality of the modeling business." Furthermore, the attitude of declaring "you don't understand this industry" or "it would take a year to make you understand what's wrong" without even checking what the other party knows or doesn’t know comes off as nothing but arrogance. Refusing dialogue and validation while asserting that only one's own perspective is correct is not a discussion, but self-righteousness.

The model's argument uses the metaphor of "external factors = marketing" being the first stage, with efforts within the room being secondary. However, this oversimplifies the reality. A model’s job is "live entertainment," and the experience within the room is the "product" itself. If the customer doesn’t find value in that experience, no amount of promotion will lead to repeat visits or sustained support. In other words, promotion is just the entrance, and the core of long-term popularity lies in the interactions and quality of the experience within the room.

Furthermore, the claim that "price doesn’t matter, as long as you convince someone of the value" is extremely abstract and disconnected from reality. The model uses the example of comparing Gucci and Walmart t-shirts, but this is a misleading analogy. Gucci was founded in 1921, with over 100 years of brand equity, cultural context, long-term relationships with customers, and the embedded value of rarity and status in its pricing. On the other hand, Walmart’s t-shirt is a product that ensures basic quality as a utility item. Simply equating these two as differences in "marketing" ignores the differences in materials, manufacturing background, and consumer psychology.

Moreover, there are hardly any individuals in the modeling industry who possess the brand power of a Gucci. If a new model ignores price strategy, they will likely never even be a contender, buried before they can establish a foothold. Customers make decisions based on the balance between price and the experience they get, and ignoring this with theoretical marketing is merely academic.

The approach of overvaluing external factors and underestimating the actual service content and quality within the room fundamentally misjudges the mechanisms of success. While external factors are certainly necessary, ultimately, what retains customers is the intrinsic value of the experience within the room. Before considering marketing as a "magic key," shouldn't one ask if their "product" is even worthy of that?

 

[MarieElise]

Isn’t this way of thinking belittling to another human being?

 

[KingMarti]

Let me say it again, it's your room, so you should believe what you believe.


The following are just my thoughts.

First, this model's explanation of marketing is overly general and doesn't seem to align with the "reality of the modeling business." Furthermore, the attitude of declaring "you don't understand this industry" or "it would take a year to make you understand what's wrong" without even checking what the other party knows or doesn’t know comes off as nothing but arrogance. Refusing dialogue and validation while asserting that only one's own perspective is correct is not a discussion, but self-righteousness.

The model's argument uses the metaphor of "external factors = marketing" being the first stage, with efforts within the room being secondary. However, this oversimplifies the reality. A model’s job is "live entertainment," and the experience within the room is the "product" itself. If the customer doesn’t find value in that experience, no amount of promotion will lead to repeat visits or sustained support. In other words, promotion is just the entrance, and the core of long-term popularity lies in the interactions and quality of the experience within the room.

Furthermore, the claim that "price doesn’t matter, as long as you convince someone of the value" is extremely abstract and disconnected from reality. The model uses the example of comparing Gucci and Walmart t-shirts, but this is a misleading analogy. Gucci was founded in 1921, with over 100 years of brand equity, cultural context, long-term relationships with customers, and the embedded value of rarity and status in its pricing. On the other hand, Walmart’s t-shirt is a product that ensures basic quality as a utility item. Simply equating these two as differences in "marketing" ignores the differences in materials, manufacturing background, and consumer psychology.

Moreover, there are hardly any individuals in the modeling industry who possess the brand power of a Gucci. If a new model ignores price strategy, they will likely never even be a contender, buried before they can establish a foothold. Customers make decisions based on the balance between price and the experience they get, and ignoring this with theoretical marketing is merely academic.

The approach of overvaluing external factors and underestimating the actual service content and quality within the room fundamentally misjudges the mechanisms of success. While external factors are certainly necessary, ultimately, what retains customers is the intrinsic value of the experience within the room. Before considering marketing as a "magic key," shouldn't one ask if their "product" is even worthy of that?

Ai will give you bad information when you ask it about things it's not been trained on. There are models that within the industry do have the brand power that Gucci has in the fashion industry.

sure, marketing isnt important, it cant change someones view of a brand, the only thing that matters in the cam business is putting on a show. I mean why would we listen to someone with a decade of experience in the cam industry who takes the time to educate you on how things actually work.

 

[misterical]

You are a model, and your strategy is something you should plan yourself, and I have no intention of arguing about that. Regarding knowledge management for mods/knights, that’s also your decision. However, I should point out that you are not the standard. I wish you the best of success.



What follows are simply my thoughts.

Isn't there a severe lack of perspective here? If you're talking about how often models interact with members offline, mods/knights are the ones talking to them, so we know this already. Naturally, by the time users reach the Gold League, they’ll notice that other popular models are probably doing the same thing. As for where and how models are promoting themselves, who is the target of these promotions? Isn’t it the users? Is there really anyone who doesn’t notice this?

Also, regarding your argument that "if you focus on what's happening in the room, you're missing the cause of the impact," it seems as though you're suggesting that the outside factors are the important ones. Aren't you ignoring the reality that actions within the room have the most direct impact? While promotions and external activities are certainly part of success, the value gained by customers when they are in the room should be the most influential. The interactions and quality of entertainment in the room are the most important, and external activities and promotions only complement that—they cannot be the fundamental cause of success.

If marketing can truly ignore pricing strategy, feel free to go ahead.

Linkedin is a challenging wank for sure.

 

[misterical]

Let me say it again, it's your room, so you should believe what you believe.


The following are just my thoughts.

First, this model's explanation of marketing is overly general and doesn't seem to align with the "reality of the modeling business." Furthermore, the attitude of declaring "you don't understand this industry" or "it would take a year to make you understand what's wrong" without even checking what the other party knows or doesn’t know comes off as nothing but arrogance. Refusing dialogue and validation while asserting that only one's own perspective is correct is not a discussion, but self-righteousness.

The model's argument uses the metaphor of "external factors = marketing" being the first stage, with efforts within the room being secondary. However, this oversimplifies the reality. A model’s job is "live entertainment," and the experience within the room is the "product" itself. If the customer doesn’t find value in that experience, no amount of promotion will lead to repeat visits or sustained support. In other words, promotion is just the entrance, and the core of long-term popularity lies in the interactions and quality of the experience within the room.

Furthermore, the claim that "price doesn’t matter, as long as you convince someone of the value" is extremely abstract and disconnected from reality. The model uses the example of comparing Gucci and Walmart t-shirts, but this is a misleading analogy. Gucci was founded in 1921, with over 100 years of brand equity, cultural context, long-term relationships with customers, and the embedded value of rarity and status in its pricing. On the other hand, Walmart’s t-shirt is a product that ensures basic quality as a utility item. Simply equating these two as differences in "marketing" ignores the differences in materials, manufacturing background, and consumer psychology.

Moreover, there are hardly any individuals in the modeling industry who possess the brand power of a Gucci. If a new model ignores price strategy, they will likely never even be a contender, buried before they can establish a foothold. Customers make decisions based on the balance between price and the experience they get, and ignoring this with theoretical marketing is merely academic.

The approach of overvaluing external factors and underestimating the actual service content and quality within the room fundamentally misjudges the mechanisms of success. While external factors are certainly necessary, ultimately, what retains customers is the intrinsic value of the experience within the room. Before considering marketing as a "magic key," shouldn't one ask if their "product" is even worthy of that?

Imagine listening to this fucker as he drip-feeds you 20 tokens one at a time over a 6 hour shift. Jesus wept.