New York Times article on camming

[pg240]

Man. I did NOT expect to see the NYTimes open to this article on my friend's kitchen island this morning!! They have no idea that I'm a cam model, so I just casually glanced at it and put it back down. I was DYING to get home to read it and discuss on the forum!!

I was pretty happy with the overall positivity of the piece. My only issue was the section about Kathryn Griffin's opinion:

"Even those women who become cam models of their own free will take on serious risks associated with sex work, Ms. Griffin said. Those risks, she said, run from the low self-esteem that comes from working on the margins of society, to using drugs to cope with a job that can feel shameful, to getting into other activities, whether stripping in a club or prostitution. The still-unsolved murders on Long Island of women who advertised as prostitutes on Craigslist also speak to the risks of going it alone in the sex industry.

“The longer they do it, the more vulnerable they become to going to the next stage and the next stage,” Ms. Griffin said of camming."

Maybe I'm biased because of my camming community (MFC regulars and forum members), but I really think that is an inaccurate statement and assumptions. I definitely don't see myself or any other models I've gotten to know headed in that direction. And then, to end the article implying that Lolli is headed there... that sucked.

But, way to go Lolli! I loved the pictures, too.

I was put off by this woman's comments, as well. She made it sound like this is an addictive process like drugs and that thought had never entered my mind. I thought the whole point was that the web created this safer environment for sex work so people didn't have to dance in strip clubs or become call girls if they didn't want to. I just thought that was a completely out-there assumption on her part that had little merit. She's presumably an "expert," so perhaps there's some basis in fact for her comments, but I sure don't see it.

 

[ThunderWeasel]

Man. I did NOT expect to see the NYTimes open to this article on my friend's kitchen island this morning!! They have no idea that I'm a cam model, so I just casually glanced at it and put it back down. I was DYING to get home to read it and discuss on the forum!!

I was pretty happy with the overall positivity of the piece. My only issue was the section about Kathryn Griffin's opinion:

"Even those women who become cam models of their own free will take on serious risks associated with sex work, Ms. Griffin said. Those risks, she said, run from the low self-esteem that comes from working on the margins of society, to using drugs to cope with a job that can feel shameful, to getting into other activities, whether stripping in a club or prostitution. The still-unsolved murders on Long Island of women who advertised as prostitutes on Craigslist also speak to the risks of going it alone in the sex industry.

“The longer they do it, the more vulnerable they become to going to the next stage and the next stage,” Ms. Griffin said of camming."

Maybe I'm biased because of my camming community (MFC regulars and forum members), but I really think that is an inaccurate statement and assumptions. I definitely don't see myself or any other models I've gotten to know headed in that direction. And then, to end the article implying that Lolli is headed there... that sucked.

But, way to go Lolli! I loved the pictures, too.

I was put off by this woman's comments, as well. She made it sound like this is an addictive process like drugs and that thought had never entered my mind. I thought the whole point was that the web created this safer environment for sex work so people didn't have to dance in strip clubs or become call girls if they didn't want to. I just thought that was a completely out-there assumption on her part that had little merit. She's presumably an "expert," so perhaps there's some basis in fact for her comments, but I sure don't see it.

These days, "experts" only give the opinions they're paid to give.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

for those curious about the impact on traffic...

My clips4sale traffic and sales are thru the roof. I havent posted anything new in days so i should not be selling lots of videos (when you post stuff, you get seen) and yet my stuff is selling like crazy.

Amazing NY Times readers actually watch and buy porn, who would have thunk. . All publicity is good publicity as long as they spell your (stage) name right. It was alos pretty decent tease photo if very tame by your standards. :mrgreen:

BigElectricCat.

I think it's better this way. I don't think I'd want to see what the typical newspaper comment poster would say. I know, at least in the city I call home, the people who respond to newspaper articles are blithering idiots.

I would have been interested in seeing what the NY readers say. Porn generally results in split between liberal readers, with the sex is good crowd, and the traditional feminist, porn is exploitative of woman crowd like the professor in the article.

The NY Times social media editor had this to say about the people who post comments on the NY Times, it helps that it is moderated and the bad trolls get deleted fairly quickly. I personally don't think they are all that impressive but it ain't youtube trolls or reddit either.

What would you say is the ratio, in a given day, of times you say to yourself, “Wow, the readers of The New York Times sure are a thoughtful bunch,” to the times you say to yourself, “Commenters are a bunch of [insert expletive that wouldn't get through our comment moderators]“?

For every time I say the latter, I say the former at least 10 times. The New York Times’s commenters are in a class of their own. If you think I’m sucking up, just read the comments in response to the Vladimir Putin Op-Ed, and ask if this kind of discussion, with this kind of spotlight, could have happened on any other general news site.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Man. I did NOT expect to see the NYTimes open to this article on my friend's kitchen island this morning!! They have no idea that I'm a cam model, so I just casually glanced at it and put it back down. I was DYING to get home to read it and discuss on the forum!!

I was pretty happy with the overall positivity of the piece. My only issue was the section about Kathryn Griffin's opinion:

"Even those women who become cam models of their own free will take on serious risks associated with sex work, Ms. Griffin said. Those risks, she said, run from the low self-esteem that comes from working on the margins of society, to using drugs to cope with a job that can feel shameful, to getting into other activities, whether stripping in a club or prostitution. The still-unsolved murders on Long Island of women who advertised as prostitutes on Craigslist also speak to the risks of going it alone in the sex industry.

“The longer they do it, the more vulnerable they become to going to the next stage and the next stage,” Ms. Griffin said of camming."

Maybe I'm biased because of my camming community (MFC regulars and forum members), but I really think that is an inaccurate statement and assumptions. I definitely don't see myself or any other models I've gotten to know headed in that direction. And then, to end the article implying that Lolli is headed there... that sucked.

But, way to go Lolli! I loved the pictures, too.

I was put off by this woman's comments, as well. She made it sound like this is an addictive process like drugs and that thought had never entered my mind. I thought the whole point was that the web created this safer environment for sex work so people didn't have to dance in strip clubs or become call girls if they didn't want to. I just thought that was a completely out-there assumption on her part that had little merit. She's presumably an "expert," so perhaps there's some basis in fact for her comments, but I sure don't see it.

Really? The thread "Holly Hanna the Jenna Jameson of Camgirls" is exactly this a camgirl that is now doing porn. Nor is she the first to go down that path. I do know a few girls who've started camming and tried out stripping. It is very common for girls to start off just getting topless in public and naked in private/group who are now using fuck machines in public. For every Olivia4Naked that moved from doing public cumshows, to being non nude,there are many more that have moved in the opposite direction. One of the top models, when she started her reaction to both girl girl and anal was ewww and is now doing both. The line between a girl doing porn and camgirl offering videos with multiple different partners on clips4sale is awfully blurry IMO. But it something that happens as camgirls spend more time camming.

Now I don't believe there is one path like Playboy--> Penthouse--> Camming-->Stripping-->Porn-->Escort. But I think the Ms. Griffin's is exactly right the longer you are in the adult entertainment business the more exposure you have to other aspects. Your inhibitions get lower, your willingness to try other things is greater either because of the novelty/bucket list and/or the money. I can't think of any girl who has been doing adult work for 5 years who isn't doing more hardcore stuff now than when they started.

I suspect that Ms. Griffin is projecting the documented negative aspects (drug use, crime victims, self-esteem) of traditional sex worker like strippers, porn actresses, and prostitutes and assuming the apply to camgirls. I doubt there has been a good study done yet, and personally doubt that is as bad as being a prostitute, but I bet camming has more negative aspects than a being waitress or office worker

 

[Sky_Smith]

Man. I did NOT expect to see the NYTimes open to this article on my friend's kitchen island this morning!! They have no idea that I'm a cam model, so I just casually glanced at it and put it back down. I was DYING to get home to read it and discuss on the forum!!

I was pretty happy with the overall positivity of the piece. My only issue was the section about Kathryn Griffin's opinion:

"Even those women who become cam models of their own free will take on serious risks associated with sex work, Ms. Griffin said. Those risks, she said, run from the low self-esteem that comes from working on the margins of society, to using drugs to cope with a job that can feel shameful, to getting into other activities, whether stripping in a club or prostitution. The still-unsolved murders on Long Island of women who advertised as prostitutes on Craigslist also speak to the risks of going it alone in the sex industry.

“The longer they do it, the more vulnerable they become to going to the next stage and the next stage,” Ms. Griffin said of camming."

Maybe I'm biased because of my camming community (MFC regulars and forum members), but I really think that is an inaccurate statement and assumptions. I definitely don't see myself or any other models I've gotten to know headed in that direction. And then, to end the article implying that Lolli is headed there... that sucked.

But, way to go Lolli! I loved the pictures, too.

I was put off by this woman's comments, as well. She made it sound like this is an addictive process like drugs and that thought had never entered my mind. I thought the whole point was that the web created this safer environment for sex work so people didn't have to dance in strip clubs or become call girls if they didn't want to. I just thought that was a completely out-there assumption on her part that had little merit. She's presumably an "expert," so perhaps there's some basis in fact for her comments, but I sure don't see it.

Really? The thread "Holly Hanna the Jenna Jameson of Camgirls" is exactly this a camgirl that is now doing porn. Nor is she the first to go down that path. I do know a few girls who've started camming and tried out stripping. It is very common for girls to start off just getting topless in public and naked in private/group who are now using fuck machines in public. For every Olivia4Naked that moved from doing public cumshows, to being non nude,there are many more that have moved in the opposite direction. One of the top models, when she started her reaction to both girl girl and anal was ewww and is now doing both. The line between a girl doing porn and camgirl offering videos with multiple different partners on clips4sale is awfully blurry IMO. But it something that happens as camgirls spend more time camming.

Now I don't believe there is one path like Playboy--> Penthouse--> Camming-->Stripping-->Porn-->Escort. But I think the Ms. Griffin's is exactly right the longer you are in the adult entertainment business the more exposure you have to other aspects. Your inhibitions get lower, your willingness to try other things is greater either because of the novelty/bucket list and/or the money. I can't think of any girl who has been doing adult work for 5 years who isn't doing more hardcore stuff now than when they started.

I suspect that Ms. Griffin is projecting the documented negative aspects (drug use, crime victims, self-esteem) of traditional sex worker like strippers, porn actresses, and prostitutes and assuming the apply to camgirls. I doubt there has been a good study done yet, and personally doubt that is as bad as being a prostitute, but I bet camming has more negative aspects than a being waitress or office worker

and personally doubt that is as bad as being a prostitute, but I bet camming has more negative aspects than a being waitress or office worker

just UGH.
unless you have been a prostitue or cam girl, no one can comment on how "bad" it is. or whether there are "negative" aspects.
cliches and stereotypes are so freaking boring.

 

[Sevrin]

Man. I did NOT expect to see the NYTimes open to this article on my friend's kitchen island this morning!! They have no idea that I'm a cam model, so I just casually glanced at it and put it back down. I was DYING to get home to read it and discuss on the forum!!

I was pretty happy with the overall positivity of the piece. My only issue was the section about Kathryn Griffin's opinion:

"Even those women who become cam models of their own free will take on serious risks associated with sex work, Ms. Griffin said. Those risks, she said, run from the low self-esteem that comes from working on the margins of society, to using drugs to cope with a job that can feel shameful, to getting into other activities, whether stripping in a club or prostitution. The still-unsolved murders on Long Island of women who advertised as prostitutes on Craigslist also speak to the risks of going it alone in the sex industry.

“The longer they do it, the more vulnerable they become to going to the next stage and the next stage,” Ms. Griffin said of camming."

Maybe I'm biased because of my camming community (MFC regulars and forum members), but I really think that is an inaccurate statement and assumptions. I definitely don't see myself or any other models I've gotten to know headed in that direction. And then, to end the article implying that Lolli is headed there... that sucked.

But, way to go Lolli! I loved the pictures, too.

I was put off by this woman's comments, as well. She made it sound like this is an addictive process like drugs and that thought had never entered my mind. I thought the whole point was that the web created this safer environment for sex work so people didn't have to dance in strip clubs or become call girls if they didn't want to. I just thought that was a completely out-there assumption on her part that had little merit. She's presumably an "expert," so perhaps there's some basis in fact for her comments, but I sure don't see it.

These days, "experts" only give the opinions they're paid to give.

Dafuq. It's not fair to piss all over the opinion of someone who, in their career, has had to help pick up the pieces when sex workers' lives fall apart. People don't get on the radar of social workers when they buy a condo or pay off their student loans. They get there when they get in over their heads and can't cope.

 

[pg240]

Man. I did NOT expect to see the NYTimes open to this article on my friend's kitchen island this morning!! They have no idea that I'm a cam model, so I just casually glanced at it and put it back down. I was DYING to get home to read it and discuss on the forum!!

I was pretty happy with the overall positivity of the piece. My only issue was the section about Kathryn Griffin's opinion:

"Even those women who become cam models of their own free will take on serious risks associated with sex work, Ms. Griffin said. Those risks, she said, run from the low self-esteem that comes from working on the margins of society, to using drugs to cope with a job that can feel shameful, to getting into other activities, whether stripping in a club or prostitution. The still-unsolved murders on Long Island of women who advertised as prostitutes on Craigslist also speak to the risks of going it alone in the sex industry.

“The longer they do it, the more vulnerable they become to going to the next stage and the next stage,” Ms. Griffin said of camming."

Maybe I'm biased because of my camming community (MFC regulars and forum members), but I really think that is an inaccurate statement and assumptions. I definitely don't see myself or any other models I've gotten to know headed in that direction. And then, to end the article implying that Lolli is headed there... that sucked.

But, way to go Lolli! I loved the pictures, too.

I was put off by this woman's comments, as well. She made it sound like this is an addictive process like drugs and that thought had never entered my mind. I thought the whole point was that the web created this safer environment for sex work so people didn't have to dance in strip clubs or become call girls if they didn't want to. I just thought that was a completely out-there assumption on her part that had little merit. She's presumably an "expert," so perhaps there's some basis in fact for her comments, but I sure don't see it.

Really? The thread "Holly Hanna the Jenna Jameson of Camgirls" is exactly this a camgirl that is now doing porn. Nor is she the first to go down that path. I do know a few girls who've started camming and tried out stripping. It is very common for girls to start off just getting topless in public and naked in private/group who are now using fuck machines in public. For every Olivia4Naked that moved from doing public cumshows, to being non nude,there are many more that have moved in the opposite direction. One of the top models, when she started her reaction to both girl girl and anal was ewww and is now doing both. The line between a girl doing porn and camgirl offering videos with multiple different partners on clips4sale is awfully blurry IMO. But it something that happens as camgirls spend more time camming.

Now I don't believe there is one path like Playboy--> Penthouse--> Camming-->Stripping-->Porn-->Escort. But I think the Ms. Griffin's is exactly right the longer you are in the adult entertainment business the more exposure you have to other aspects. Your inhibitions get lower, your willingness to try other things is greater either because of the novelty/bucket list and/or the money. I can't think of any girl who has been doing adult work for 5 years who isn't doing more hardcore stuff now than when they started.

I suspect that Ms. Griffin is projecting the documented negative aspects (drug use, crime victims, self-esteem) of traditional sex worker like strippers, porn actresses, and prostitutes and assuming the apply to camgirls. I doubt there has been a good study done yet, and personally doubt that is as bad as being a prostitute, but I bet camming has more negative aspects than a being waitress or office worker

OK, I take your point. The possibility exists for progression into other realms of sex work. But that escalation probably exists right within camming. I'll just chat, OK I'll take my top off, OK I'll get nude, OK I'll do shower shows, OK I'll masturbate and sell videos.

I don't think anyone is pretending that camming is the same as being a school teacher in the eyes of the community. And some personalities are just prone to wanting and doing more. So maybe she had a valid point. I just wonder about the prevalence. I suspect the vast majority of cammers are content with the content and the income.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

and personally doubt that is as bad as being a prostitute, but I bet camming has more negative aspects than a being waitress or office worker

just UGH.
unless you have been a prostitue or cam girl, no one can comment on how "bad" it is. or whether there are "negative" aspects.
cliches and stereotypes are so freaking boring.

So I can't comment on the problems of being soldiers like PTSD, because I've never been combat. Nor the problems of fidelity with bartenders or dancers cause I've never done either, or the stress of being a air traffic controller, or the health problems of coal miners.

There is lot of research done on jobs in this country. Not all of is great but not of all is crap either. 45 million google hits worth on sex worker research alone. I've read a fair amount of the research on porn and sex workers over the last couple decades and even participated in one research project on camming. Statistically there some real negative aspects to sex work, in the same way that you are far more likely to be killed on the job as a pilot, or a fisherman, or get respiratory illness as coal miner than an office worker. When a journalist is doing a story on camming it is part of his obligation to present a balanced picture of a pretty new occupation. I thought Ms. Griffin's quote was pretty mild.

 

[galactic6]

On the issue of "big earners" keeping more tips, that could be a confusion with the discounts when buying large token packages. While models earn a nickel a token, the tokens cost members between 10 cents and something less than 8 cents depending on the size of the purchase. Models keep around 60% of the take from those big token package. Only the 200 token package was mentioned. It's a somewhat subtle point and not actually important for the article so I can see how an editor trying to cut this piece down would get confused by it.

Some have noted that this was in the Technology section. While it's tagged as technology and appeared there too, it actually appeared in the Business section both in print (on page BU1, the front page of the Sunday Business section) and on-line (on the website, on the iPhone and iPad apps, and in the daily headlines email) although positions on-line change constantly. It was on the front page of nytimes.com and in the first screen of the apps. It's currently the 5th most viewed article on nytimes.com.


(beating out Maureen Dowd is always a good thing)

I didn't look up exact numbers, but I believe the Times has around 2.5 million paid print and on-line readers and a much larger unpaid readership.

This article is pretty long but that's not unusual for a lead Sunday piece written by a Pulitzer Prize winner. I didn't count the words, but it takes up 5 pages on-line, more that twice what normal articles use. This thing is probably pushing 4K words. That much space in one of the most important news outlets in the world would have attracted a large amount of editorial attention, not to mention the, let's say sensitive, subject matter.

I see this as a good article but I would have like to have learned more about models who haven't had the kind of success Lacey has had. Although the point of the article is show how the Internet has changed the dynamic of the adult entertainment industry in favor of some performers, I don't think most models on MFC or other services are making such a decent living off of cam work alone. There are plenty of part-timers and models just passing through plus models who have no real success at all (double plus the models in bad studios). An interesting article can be written (probably already has been) about the broad expansion of participation in adult entertainment made possible by the Internet and the wide availability of broadband.

I think the comments by Kathryn Griffin were effectively balanced out by others on how camming isn't as dangerous as other forms of sex work. I can only imagine camming is less likely than more traditional forms of sex work in leading some down an ugly path.

Pretty certain this is the longest comment I've ever made on ACF and it's all straight lines. :geek:

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

OK, I take your point. The possibility exists for progression into other realms of sex work. But that escalation probably exists right within camming. I'll just chat, OK I'll take my top off, OK I'll get nude, OK I'll do shower shows, OK I'll masturbate and sell videos.

I don't think anyone is pretending that camming is the same as being a school teacher in the eyes of the community. And some personalities are just prone to wanting and doing more. So maybe she had a valid point. I just wonder about the prevalence. I suspect the vast majority of cammers are content with the content and the income.

It is a relatively new profession (JenniCam aside). Most of the models on ACF, must less MFC have only being camming for a couple of years. The folks who have been doing it like 5 year like Amber (my apologies if I am wrong on the time) are quite rare. I first looked at MFC around six years ago, I was just a basic and didn't spend much time, but I wonder how many top models then are still top models now (Miss MFC only goes back 2 years). I don't recognize any. There is a newness associated with all girls in the adult industry. Even in the 18 months I've been active I've observed plenty of girls that did very well their first year or two struggle and have switched sites, settled for less income, or worked harder. I just don't think we know what happens after 5 years cause we just don't have a lot of data on camgirls who have been doing it for 5 years. If the camming income drops do they get conventional jobs, live with less, or try different aspects of the adult industry? I am sure it is a combination, but I wouldn't even hazard a guess on percentages.

 

[Albert_1]

Good read imo. I love getting a peek behind the curtain into how the business side of this works. Congrats lolli!

 

[LadyLuna]

(that bit about the longer you do it the more you're willing to do)

There's a difference between going further because your boundaries expand, and going more hardcore. I've actually gotten less hardcore in some areas, more hardcore in others. Example: when I first started, I was willing to contemplate the idea of doing taboo roleplay. Now, I know that I'm not able to handle it. When I first started, my pain tolerance was a lot lower, so my spanking shows weren't as hard as they are now. But, I know my pain tolerance better, so I am better able to keep within it instead of accidentally going over-board. Which is more hardcore, the one that makes me hurt more, or the one where I'm hitting with more force? If the former, I'm actually less hard-core now when it comes to pain-play.

The things that have been added, in my case, were all things that I either didn't know about before, or couldn't do for some reason or another (like adding nipple clips not because a boundary expanded, but because I was finally able to purchase them. And like adding a clips4sale store not because I wasn't willing to record videos before, in fact, I recorded a few before I ever found out about it, but because I found out that it was an option.) Quite a few things that I used to be willing to explore I no longer offer, because I encountered my boundary and won't let it go further through camming. If my boundaries get pushed, it's in my real-life sex life, not in my camming life. When the real life boundaries get pushed though, that has an effect, and changes my camming life.

 

[ThunderWeasel]

I was put off by this woman's comments, as well. She made it sound like this is an addictive process like drugs and that thought had never entered my mind. I thought the whole point was that the web created this safer environment for sex work so people didn't have to dance in strip clubs or become call girls if they didn't want to. I just thought that was a completely out-there assumption on her part that had little merit. She's presumably an "expert," so perhaps there's some basis in fact for her comments, but I sure don't see it.

These days, "experts" only give the opinions they're paid to give.

Dafuq. It's not fair to piss all over the opinion of someone who, in their career, has had to help pick up the pieces when sex workers' lives fall apart. People don't get on the radar of social workers when they buy a condo or pay off their student loans. They get there when they get in over their heads and can't cope.

Good point, I hadn't taken into account the fact that she rarely, if ever, encounters anyone that hasn't ended up in a bad situation.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

http://misslollipoptumbles.tumblr.com/post/62069207205

my official 'response' blog post - to this article.. now that the dust has settled a bit.

 

[pg240]

http://misslollipoptumbles.tumblr.com/post/62069207205

my official 'response' blog post - to this article.. now that the dust has settled a bit.

You state your case eloquently as a perfect counterpoint to some of the things in the Times article. I applaud you and encourage everyone to read your blog post.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

by the way, if anyone would like to discuss this on my forum (nothing like ACF! but its my little corner of the web) it will come up in web searches when people look for miss lollipop i posted my response and created a small discussion area on there for it. Feel free to copy/paste any opinions you'd like to share that you posted here..

http://miss-lollipop.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0

 

[JoleneBrody]

(that bit about the longer you do it the more you're willing to do)

There's a difference between going further because your boundaries expand, and going more hardcore. I've actually gotten less hardcore in some areas, more hardcore in others. Example: when I first started, I was willing to contemplate the idea of doing taboo roleplay. Now, I know that I'm not able to handle it. When I first started, my pain tolerance was a lot lower, so my spanking shows weren't as hard as they are now. But, I know my pain tolerance better, so I am better able to keep within it instead of accidentally going over-board. Which is more hardcore, the one that makes me hurt more, or the one where I'm hitting with more force? If the former, I'm actually less hard-core now when it comes to pain-play.

The things that have been added, in my case, were all things that I either didn't know about before, or couldn't do for some reason or another (like adding nipple clips not because a boundary expanded, but because I was finally able to purchase them. And like adding a clips4sale store not because I wasn't willing to record videos before, in fact, I recorded a few before I ever found out about it, but because I found out that it was an option.) Quite a few things that I used to be willing to explore I no longer offer, because I encountered my boundary and won't let it go further through camming. If my boundaries get pushed, it's in my real-life sex life, not in my camming life. When the real life boundaries get pushed though, that has an effect, and changes my camming life.

Such a great post Luna! It's kind of funny how what looks like getting more "hardcore" to many may also be a model getting less "hardcore".
Example for me. I was a groups and privates only girl for my first 2 years, in the start of my 3rd year I started doing public shows, cut out groups entirely and only go private with select trusted friends.
A lot of people would say I've gotten more loose in time and with what I'm willing to do, but that's only because they are likely people who never saw it before because they never joined the daily groups or took me private.
Now in reality, going to public shows was me becoming more tame! I now do shows and get off the way I want to without having orders being barked at me. Nobody typing "harder, harder, HARDER!" Over and over, with me fearing that if I didn't oblige he would end the private and I would earn less. Now, I am paid upfront via countdown and earn MORE the less direction and demands I take. A lot of people say "I remember when JJ didn't do blah blah..." bitch, you have no idea what I did. (not calling you a bitch.)
What's behind closed doors is often more than you expect to see displayed on the front lawn. Just a little food for thought.

 

[Sevrin]

http://misslollipoptumbles.tumblr.com/post/62069207205

my official 'response' blog post - to this article.. now that the dust has settled a bit.

If you haven't already, you might want to email that link to reporter boy. He might find some of the discussion interesting and want to share it with his ilk.

 

[inkydoo]

Following the link on your blog post stops me at a NYTimes log in screen. Does anyone have a different URL that doesn't require a login?

 

[LadyLuna]

Following the link on your blog post stops me at a NYTimes log in screen. Does anyone have a different URL that doesn't require a login?

Weird, I took the link and it didn't... I'm on Comodo IceDragon at the moment, which is kinda like Firefox.

The link in the thread op is a little different, maybe that one will work for you?

here it is again

 

[Sevrin]

You can read 3 articles a day on the NYT website and after that you have to register, but it doesn't usually redirect you to a log-in screen right away. Maybe it depends on where it thinks your IP is located.

 

[bakersman]

Newspapers (yes, even big ones like the NYT and Wash Post) love to craft a narrative and make the story fit it, facts and context be damned.

The fact that this article was (despite the inaccuracies noted by Lolli and others) not pushing something like "OMG what if your daughter becomes a camgirl," or "porn is harmful to women" or "Strippers/pornstars are damaged goods" was remarkable.

 

[Mr_Do_]

http://misslollipoptumbles.tumblr.com/post/62069207205
my official 'response' blog post - to this article.. now that the dust has settled a bit.

Thanks for this. It goes a little way to settling my unease I felt on reading, from the article, the expert opinion of "They can also become invested in a relationship that exists only on the screen." (emphasis added; that's the line that echoed in my head out of all the article) I've been sitting here wondering if feeling friendship for models is a complete waste of time. You'd mentioned the "hairdresser" example earlier upthread, but even there it brings into play that whole dynamic of artificiality being used for pay, like the cute waitress that flirts with you but you know that it's completely fake.

But the clarification paragraph in the blog response ending with "Your friendship and conversations - those are things I cannot replace" makes me feel that maybe I'm not wasting hours interacting with a model; maybe the relationship is something genuine.

It is complicated, that's for sure.

 

[inkydoo]

You can read 3 articles a day on the NYT website and after that you have to register, but it doesn't usually redirect you to a log-in screen right away. Maybe it depends on where it thinks your IP is located.

And in order for them to track those three times, you have to allow a disturbing number of cookies, which I disallow by default, thus causing the problem. Now that they can track me, I can read the article.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

http://misslollipoptumbles.tumblr.com/post/62069207205
my official 'response' blog post - to this article.. now that the dust has settled a bit.

Thanks for this. It goes a little way to settling my unease I felt on reading, from the article, the expert opinion of "They can also become invested in a relationship that exists only on the screen." (emphasis added; that's the line that echoed in my head out of all the article) I've been sitting here wondering if feeling friendship for models is a complete waste of time. You'd mentioned the "hairdresser" example earlier upthread, but even there it brings into play that whole dynamic of artificiality being used for pay, like the cute waitress that flirts with you but you know that it's completely fake.

But the clarification paragraph in the blog response ending with "Your friendship and conversations - those are things I cannot replace" makes me feel that maybe I'm not wasting hours interacting with a model; maybe the relationship is something genuine.

It is complicated, that's for sure.

It is complicated. Relying on people you genuinely like, for income does get super complicated.



One time a reg of mine was broke, and hungry. he's been around for a very very long time and done so so much for me. He had hard times, and was literally skipping a meal cos he had nothing in the house. So..i ordered him a pizza.

It wasn't a gesture to get money out of him, it wasn't done publically in the room - i didn't want to embarass him.. but it was done because I cared.

*shrug*

I remarked in models only recently after reading a post a model had written about one of her regs, about how much she was worried/hurting for him... that sometimes I wish ya'll COULD read models only. So you could see how much we really do care and connect sometimes.

Models only is not only full of us talking about our periods, our boyfriends, money making tips, hair and make up etc.. but its also very often a place where we will mention that we adore 'this member' for doing 'x' or that we think 'x' member is super cute... or that 'x' member just had a family member die and our heart is breaking for them.. etc etc.

Sometimes, I wish y'all could read it... I don't think anyone would ask us if we ever felt genuine feelings of friendship for members any more.

 

[pg240]

http://misslollipoptumbles.tumblr.com/post/62069207205
my official 'response' blog post - to this article.. now that the dust has settled a bit.

Thanks for this. It goes a little way to settling my unease I felt on reading, from the article, the expert opinion of "They can also become invested in a relationship that exists only on the screen." (emphasis added; that's the line that echoed in my head out of all the article) I've been sitting here wondering if feeling friendship for models is a complete waste of time. You'd mentioned the "hairdresser" example earlier upthread, but even there it brings into play that whole dynamic of artificiality being used for pay, like the cute waitress that flirts with you but you know that it's completely fake.

But the clarification paragraph in the blog response ending with "Your friendship and conversations - those are things I cannot replace" makes me feel that maybe I'm not wasting hours interacting with a model; maybe the relationship is something genuine.

It is complicated, that's for sure.

It is complicated. Relying on people you genuinely like, for income does get super complicated.



One time a reg of mine was broke, and hungry. he's been around for a very very long time and done so so much for me. He had hard times, and was literally skipping a meal cos he had nothing in the house. So..i ordered him a pizza.

It wasn't a gesture to get money out of him, it wasn't done publically in the room - i didn't want to embarass him.. but it was done because I cared.

*shrug*

I remarked in models only recently after reading a post a model had written about one of her regs, about how much she was worried/hurting for him... that sometimes I wish ya'll COULD read models only. So you could see how much we really do care and connect sometimes.

Models only is not only full of us talking about our periods, our boyfriends, money making tips, hair and make up etc.. but its also very often a place where we will mention that we adore 'this member' for doing 'x' or that we think 'x' member is super cute... or that 'x' member just had a family member die and our heart is breaking for them.. etc etc.

Sometimes, I wish y'all could read it... I don't think anyone would ask us if we ever felt genuine feelings of friendship for members any more.

Very enlightening and very much appreciated.

 

[mynameisbob84]

It is complicated, that's for sure.

It is complicated.

The model/member dynamic just has so many variables and nuances that if there's not a bunch of them already, someone should totally write a thesis on it. It would make for a pretty interesting study of human behaviour and human relationships.

I think that genuine friendships can definitely form between models and members but there are just so many caveats, and I think a lot of members struggle with that. Given the nature of camming, it's next to impossible for models and members to be friends in the traditional sense of the word. I think when members get to know and like a model, and when a model seemingly likes them back, there's an expectation (on the member's side) that the two of them are going to enjoy the type of friendship that the member is used to in real life - they'll swap phone numbers and talk on the phone and text each other throughout the day, they'll send each other Christmas and birthday cards and swap gifts and invite one another to social gatherings, they'll come to each other with personal problems and seek advice, they'll meet up for coffee when they have the time, they'll do all the things that friends do... and that's just not realistically gonna happen.

I mean, I'm sure it does happen, but it's not the norm. Realistically, the member isn't even gonna get to know the model's real name, much less meet them for coffee. If you're a member and you genuinely want to be friends with a model, then you kinda have to accept that it's gonna be on her terms. That likely means that the bulk of the time you spend together will be in her cam room, when you're paying her for her company. It likely means that you'll only ever get to know the parts of her that she chooses to present on cam, which are likely not the parts of herself that she shares with her real world friends, and certainly not the parts of herself that she shares with her family or her lovers. You likely won't ever get to know her real name, and you'll almost certainly never get to meet her. You'll also have to accept the fact that you probably value the time you spend with her more than she values the time spent with you. It's just the way things are, ya know?

If members can accept all that (and I fear a lot of them don't even consider the circumstances that make all of the above necessary) then there's no reason they can't enjoy rewarding, online relationships with models who genuinely care about them and don't just view them as customers or walking, wanking wallets. :twocents-02cents: