The Black Lives Matters thread.

[Mila_]

I'm not going to add to the statistics argument lol.

Why not listen to what a former Seattle Police Chief has to say on the topic?

When you make the argument that there is systemic racism involving the police and considering all races are equal under the law, you must prove that a statistically significant number of police officers are motivated by race. The burden of proof is on your side. Testimonies, stories by the bonfire, and anecdotal evidence while nice, are insufficient.

 

[Ms_Diane]

guys it's a thread on internet forum. burden of proof? i don't care what is sufficient or insufficient for you mila.

I just want to talk with people about the issues and hear opinions and learn stuff.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

When you make the argument that there is systemic racism involving the police and considering all races are equal under the law, you must prove that a statistically significant number of police officers are motivated by race. The burden of proof is on your side. Testimonies, stories by the bonfire, and anecdotal evidence while nice, are insufficient.

Forgetting the numbers, and the disturbing political bent of some in the movement, do you believe there is a genuine complaint at the root of these protests? Do you believe that police are going too far?

 

[Mila_]

Forgetting the numbers, and the disturbing political bent of some in the movement, do you believe there is a genuine complaint at the root of these protests? Do you believe that police are going too far?

Nope. I believe there is a lot of racial opportunism on the part of the agitators (BLM leadership, Al Sharpton, etc) and a lot of cynicism in the part of media (CNN's Don Lemon is a card carrying fuckwit). Believing there is a system of oppression against black people in the US is as crazy as believing in the Patriarchy. Nobody with half a brain takes any of this seriously, it is Tumblr fodder.

I also do not believe in the "police brutality" meme. Individual mistakes by the police are made for sure, they aren't immune to accidents. And there are probably individual cops with a mental problem using their uniform to get power trips, and racist individual cops for sure, like in any profession. There are even bus drivers drunk on power who will abuse their uniform too, but I doubt this constitutes a systemic problem. If anything I would have to see hard evidence that there is, in fact, an over-arching problem but I haven't been shown sufficient proof to sustain any of these claims. So I don't believe in them.

See, the thing I believe is people don't understand that cops face violent situations all the fucking time, it is their job. And they have firearms for a reason. In the US where people have an easy access to firearms those confrontations will be messy and people will be killed by cops on occasion. It is part of the job. And I even support the right of a cop to assess the risk in a situation and act preemptively because otherwise he wont be able to perform his job which is keeping law abiding citizens safe. If you do not want to be shot by the police or tased don't attack a police officer, don't threaten to kill them, don't resist arrest, and don't try to take their gun.

 

[altern8]

Nobody with half a brain takes any of this seriously, it is Tumblr fodder.
.

If you're just going to accuse everyone who believes differently of being an idiot or somehow "brainwashed by the left," why even bother having this conversation?

 

[LioraVox]

I guess for me, I can respect the job and not the person because I don't know them. I don't know if theyre a person who should be respected or not. Like aside from the duties of their job- do they help the community or are they a shit posting troll. Or do they beat their wives and are crazy stalkers (like the movies). Are they a person that speaks up against the bad cops, or do they stay silent and choose to be on the side of abuse of power. You literally never know, and the way I was raised was "if you want respect, you have to earn it" not "if you want respect you give respect" because then you'll look like a fool being respectful to someone who is disrespecting you.

I think that if cops went into situations a little more level headed, we wouldn't be having these types of discussions. I think if there was an overall reform on how the public gets guns and also some form of stress therapy for LEO's, and a reduction on the need to fulfil quotas then the public and the police would have a healthy coexistence.

I don't think it's fair to say "If you do not want to be shot by the police or tased don't attack a police officer, don't threaten to kill them, don't resist arrest, and don't try to take their gun" -while it is a valid argument of common sense, not every case is because the citizen did any of these things. Making statements like this is implying that all the citizens who have died during their interaction with the cops are responsible for their own death while also absolving the responsibility the police have to protect and serve at all times -not when it's convenient for them. It's like blaming victim of a rape case- "well if you wear less form fitting clothing, or if you didn't smile at him etc etc. You wouldnt have gotten raped". That places the outcome and the burden of the situation onto the victim 100% of the time. This needs to change, and they should be held accountable for their actions at all times.

Why are there quotas anyway? I think that's like the biggest thing that's hurting the police-public relationship. Because, from one black persons perspective it's always about numbers instead of actually protecting the community. Quotas make cops predators. There needs to be a change at the core of law enforcement. Instead of holding onto the practice to monetize criminals they should refocus on actually protecting the community.

 

[LuckySmiles]

I think the quotas for the most part are illegal, and "unofficial." But it's all to collect tax dollars. I do know to avoid speeding certain places at the end of the month if you don't want a ticket. Gotta make that quota! It's total bull, and it's the government at work.

I don't think it's victim blaming to stress the importance of cooperation. And I know that's not what always happens in every case, but it's ok to admit it's a difficult call to make, and might as well not make it any more dangerous than it needs to be.

Given the amount of interactions on a given day with the public, these mistakes are still going to happen. It's never going to be completely avoidable, even if you do everything right.

People here know how bent out of shape they get when someone tells them how to do their job, who are we to do the same when it's a matter of life and death? Maybe most people have the right to.

“Civilian privilege” lolol
sorry I couldn't help it. But it's the same concept isn't it? We either all have the right to put in our two cents about the things that we don't experience firsthand or nobody does, you know? but that's a whole other thing I'm just trying build bridges over here out of toothpicks.

 

[paige_orion]

Honest question : Why are people "required" to respect police?

This question really made me pause and think of a family story that I never really shared. My father was arrested in the 70s. Wrong time, wrong place sorta deal. Cops wanted to get their hands on his friends. He refused to rat on them and so the cops tied him up and beat the shit of out him. Broke his jaw and refused him medical treatment for three days. It was a nasty situation.

I was taught to never get mouthy with police. To say, "Yes sir, no sir," and get the fuck outta the situation as soon as possible. To not give police a reason to go after you. To this day, I get panicky whenever a police car drives behind me - though I'm the sort of person who goes exactly the speedlimit because I hate breaking rules. I am not a criminal. I am a tiny, young white girl with a whole heap of privilege. And yet the police fucking terrify me. I cannot imagine how it would feel to be a member of a group of people who are more likely to be on the receiving end of negative police attention.

I realize there are some amazing cops out there with awesome hearts who truly wish to protect the people. But I also recognize that jobs that give one person so much power often can attract the sort who would abuse such power. Police brutality has been around for a long, long time. But in this day and age, we become more aware of it because of the internet, because of technology advancements such as our cell phones being able to record anything anywhere. It is unfortunate that a few bad apples can ruin the reputation of an entire group of people, and I realize the cops are humans and humans make mistakes sometimes... But it scares me to see a group of people given SO much power and yet not be held accountable for when the power is wielded improperly (whether accidental or not).

I realize and admit that my experiences and views are based on my upbringing. There is nothing statistical here, just a random opinion and anecdote and a whole lotta rambles. So I am sorry for not having more to contribute to the discussion! But on the whole, police really frighten me.

 

[Mila_]

If you're just going to accuse everyone who believes differently of being an idiot or somehow "brainwashed by the left," why even bother having this conversation?

I didn't call anyone an idiot or brainwashed, although I am sure there are many. What I think is if you are willing to accept wild irrational claims like these without any sort of proof you arent using your brain.

If someone wants to convince me that there is a space warrior named Xenu who trapped alien souls in human vessels I would say that is one bild claim. It cannot be disproven in the same way I cannot disprove there isnt an elephant hiding behind that tree. But I can certainly say it is highly unlikely given the odds. If a group of people is defending this idea tooth and nail, asking for political reform that conforms to the wild idea and telling me I need to change my ways I would laugh yoo. Laugh and call them for what they are: a cult. There are many intelligent scientologists, that's for sure. I wouldnt say they are idiots. But I will argue that they arent using their reason when they chose to believe in Xenu.

The only difference between Xenu and the Patriarchy or the "system of oppression" is the fact that one of them has a paranormal origin and the other does not. This is why we call one a religion and the other one "activism" but they are both equally irrational, and can both lead to disaster if people in power followed the claims. Luckily the vast majority of people recognize both believing in Xenu and in the Patriarchy as equally absurd.

 

[LioraVox]

This question really made me pause and think of a family story that I never really shared. My father was arrested in the 70s. Wrong time, wrong place sorta deal. Cops wanted to get their hands on his friends. He refused to rat on them and so the cops tied him up and beat the shit of out him. Broke his jaw and refused him medical treatment for three days. It was a nasty situation.

I was taught to never get mouthy with police. To say, "Yes sir, no sir," and get the fuck outta the situation as soon as possible. To not give police a reason to go after you. To this day, I get panicky whenever a police car drives behind me - though I'm the sort of person who goes exactly the speedlimit because I hate breaking rules. I am not a criminal. I am a tiny, young white girl with a whole heap of privilege. And yet the police fucking terrify me. I cannot imagine how it would feel to be a member of a group of people who are more likely to be on the receiving end of negative police attention.

I realize there are some amazing cops out there with awesome hearts who truly wish to protect the people. But I also recognize that jobs that give one person so much power often can attract the sort who would abuse such power. Police brutality has been around for a long, long time. But in this day and age, we become more aware of it because of the internet, because of technology advancements such as our cell phones being able to record anything anywhere. It is unfortunate that a few bad apples can ruin the reputation of an entire group of people, and I realize the cops are humans and humans make mistakes sometimes... But it scares me to see a group of people given SO much power and yet not be held accountable for when the power is wielded improperly (whether accidental or not).

I realize and admit that my experiences and views are based on my upbringing. There is nothing statistical here, just a random opinion and anecdote and a whole lotta rambles. So I am sorry for not having more to contribute to the discussion! But on the whole, police really frighten me.

Paige, I really appreciate you telling your story here.

It sparked another question : Do you guys feel it is necessary to use "Sir" when speaking to the police? Why? And do you feel like it's handing them authority over you?

 

[mynameisbob84]

The only difference between Xenu and the Patriarchy or the "system of oppression" is the fact that one of them has a paranormal origin and the other does not. This is why we call one a religion and the other one "activism" but they are both equally irrational, and can both lead to disaster if people in power followed the claims. Luckily the vast majority of people recognize both believing in Xenu and in the Patriarchy as equally absurd.

 

[Mila_]

guys it's a thread on internet forum. burden of proof? i don't care what is sufficient or insufficient for you mila.

I just want to talk with people about the issues and hear opinions and learn stuff.

I am not talking about you personally. I am talking about BLM and their supporters in general. If BLM claims there is a system of oppression they need to prove it to convince me. I am sure other people dont need proof to become believers which is why we have things like BLM, scientology and modern feminism.

 

[AmberCutie]

It sparked another question : Do you guys feel it is necessary to use "Sir" when speaking to the police? Why? And do you feel like it's handing them authority over you?

Great question.

I say no. While I feel it's in anyone's best interest to treat someone in a position of authority with a respectful tone and demeanor, calling them Sir/Ma'am(?) is beyond what should be expected.

 

[LuckySmiles]

I'd never call anybody sir unless it's sarcastically. That just feels unnecessary. Just be calm and don't try to pick a fight/argument about anything. If you haven't done anything wrong there's no reason to be scared, and when police are out of line, the best chance at getting complaints noticed against them is to do everything the right way. Be the better person.

EDIT: I mean I never say sir except when I'm being sarcastic. Not that you are if you say it, just that you don't have to.

 

[LioraVox]

I think the quotas for the most part are illegal, and "unofficial." But it's all to collect tax dollars. I do know to avoid speeding certain places at the end of the month if you don't want a ticket. Gotta make that quota! It's total bull, and it's the government at work.

I don't think it's victim blaming to stress the importance of cooperation. And I know that's not what always happens in every case, but it's ok to admit it's a difficult call to make, and might as well not make it any more dangerous than it needs to be.

Given the amount of interactions on a given day with the public, these mistakes are still going to happen. It's never going to be completely avoidable, even if you do everything right.

People here know how bent out of shape they get when someone tells them how to do their job, who are we to do the same when it's a matter of life and death? Maybe most people have the right to.

“Civilian privilege” lolol
sorry I couldn't help it. But it's the same concept isn't it? We either all have the right to put in our two cents about the things that we don't experience firsthand or nobody does, you know? but that's a whole other thing I'm just trying build bridges over here out of toothpicks.

Stressing cooperation: Cooperation is a two-way street, though. If a cop comes up to me demanding my i.d. I'm going to ask questions, they could cooperate with me and tell me why they're asking for my i.d. If all they say is "because I asked you to/ because I told you to." I'm not doing it.

What you (and others) are trying to stress is compliance. "Just do what the cops says, and you won't have a problem." Because in that instance since I'm not complying to their request I'm a problem or *obviously* I'm the person they were looking for or else I wouldn't be being so "stubborn". Stressing the importance of compliance, to me, reduces the rights you have as an individual person. Typically, a lack of compliance is what creates the high tension situations in the police's eyes & a lack of cooperation creates the same in a civilians eyes.

If a person didn't do what the officer said when they said to do it. Or they asked too many questions and the officer got mad/frustrated and decided to take their stressful day out on this specific person-any actions against them is "acceptable" because a lack of compliance. Yet, if the cop cooperated with me (the civilian) and said "because you look like someone I'm looking for." - if I didn't do the thing, I will happily comply to prove that it wasn't me.. and if I did do the thing, I would probably try to run or something dumb..so then the cop definitely knows that I did it at that point- which is when they can use any means to detain me. BUT that's not how the police as a whole operate, although I hope it is a way they will in the future.

 

[LuckySmiles]

OH! I was just about to say something about this and I erased it... gahh good point and I'm going to tell why it's bad to do that lol.

If someone gives me a hard time I'd assume they've got something to hide is the gist of it. Or like... ok if I'm the cop and I want to get information out of someone that's guilty that I know won't tell me they're guilty outright I might ask weird indirect questions to try and see what's up. It's a trick but it's something people do all the time in human interaction to get the truth I can't think of a good example.

But lets just say I'm very difficult to date because these are things I do, and I'm not even a cop...heh.
But once you got what you needed to know you drop it right? Kind of figure it's like that.

 

[mutantdonut]

Respecting cops:

They're the ones dealing with dead bodies, walking into domestic violence where the victim turns around and starts attacking for arresting their partner who just attacked them...
They are meeting people at their worst on a daily basis, things many are "privileged" enough to rarely have to acknowledge. I don't know why it's so hard for people to cut them some slack in that regard. Especially highly sensitive people who need trigger warnings on everything. For real. I think If you want to live in a world shielded from these things, you have to respect the people that allow you to have that option. I don't think they're infallible, and I don't think everyone is qualified to do it, it is very difficult, but I still appreciate their job.
I didn't grow up afraid of someone challenging my world views on a computer, I grew up afraid of career criminals of every shade.

Yes it's their job, but I wouldn't want to live in a place where no one was there to do it. We could all probably get along just fine without camgirls (THE SHOCK! THE HORROR!!) But I don't think we'd get by too easily without the police.

I'm sorry, i don't buy into this whatsoever

There's enough documentation out there regarding police corruption, abuse of power, or otherwise that wouldn't warrant my respect, or anyone else's for that matter, about police in general: anything from bribery, to extortion, to theft, to protecting their own for political/PR matters, etc. And in some cases, it's not just one or two bad apples in a barrel, it's almost an entire police department. On the legal-but-questionable side of things, there have been accountability issues among police departments and how they perform duties: half-assing the job, patrolling only wealthier neighborhoods, and even in some cases; acting only as spectators rather than properly enforcing incidents.

I can respect individuals. If that individual happens to be a cop who does the job effectively, respect is then earned. But i don't believe respect should be automatic just because of position.

 

[LuckySmiles]

@mutantdonut So you're saying it's acceptable to act disrespectful towards a police officer until they've proven otherwise? What do you consider respect?

This is the part I'm not understanding in this. I think it's because I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they give me reason not to. If a cop approaches me I don't assume he's out to get me, the same as if a stranger approaches me. I treat either with the same respect until I've been given a reason not to..

EDIT: Obviously there are differences. But if a police officer asks me where I'm going, I'll tell them because I respect that they are doing their job.

If a stranger approaches me I might be more cautious but I'll respect they aren't trying to kill me until they give me reason to believe otherwise. idk. I'm talking too much here.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

This question really made me pause and think of a family story that I never really shared. My father was arrested in the 70s. Wrong time, wrong place sorta deal. Cops wanted to get their hands on his friends. He refused to rat on them and so the cops tied him up and beat the shit of out him. Broke his jaw and refused him medical treatment for three days. It was a nasty situation.

Got a similar one, roughly same time period. Had a family member get arrested. He was up to some bullshit (petty theft). Got arrested (as it should be). Wound up dying in police custody. Covered in bruises. They beat the shit out of him; killed him, then covered it by saying he committed suicide. There was clear evidence showing it was bullshit. Family wound up suing just to get them to admit responsibility. Got a small settlement, all of which went to the lawyer. Nobody ever charged, nobody ever arrested.

 

[mutantdonut]

@mutantdonut So you're saying it's acceptable to act disrespectful towards a police officer until they've proven otherwise? What do you consider respect?

This is the part I'm not understanding in this. I think it's because I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they give me reason not to. If a cop approaches me I don't assume he's out to get me, the same as if a stranger approaches me. I treat either with the same respect until I've been given a reason not to..

No, what i'm saying is the general police force shouldn't be regarded so highly as you suggested imho. That's not necessarily disrespect under my terms, but i don't believe police deserve a "National Law Enforcement Acknowledgement Day" if our government proposes one.

This is a tangent to the BLM & police brutality issue.

 

[LuckySmiles]

Ok that's the difference. I'm talking about in terms of respect in interaction. People seem to be saying police don't deserve the basic respect of not being questioned, or not resisting arrest, until they prove themselves trustworthy. That's just not possible or advisable in practice.

And I made an argument for why you have to, if want to live in a place with laws. And how it's ok to be upset if someone dies trying to help you, because these ARE the things they do on a daily basis. I've never had to see a dead body up close outside of a few funerals. I'm grateful for these kinds of luxuries.

 

[mutantdonut]

Here's where i draw the line of respect for police. I can be thankful that there's enough police presence preventing crime from spiraling out of control in my town, but being thankful isn't the same as respect in my book, and that's where respect for my town's (and neighboring areas') police force stops short. There were local articles regarding accountability, including personal accounts of former officers stating how plenty of fellow officers take the job as just a paycheck rather than serving the law with any real passion. I can be thankful of a patrol car circling the block once in a while to keep burglars out of my home, but that's about it.

I can appreciate a cop's duties as inherently and potentially dangerous. It's simply respect for the job itself. What the job naturally is, and what actual police have often been documented as; are conflicting of one another. And that's where respect for the actual police isn't always there.

Ok that's the difference. I'm talking about in terms of respect in interaction. People seem to be saying police don't deserve the basic respect of not being questioned, or not resisting arrest, until they prove themselves trustworthy. That's just not possible or advisable in practice.

.
Given that not every police action serves with the best judgment or moral/ethical standards, then yea... i'd find it perfectly acceptable to question the methods of law enforcement (short of resisting arrest)(whenever the situation warrants questioning) as it is our given right to challenge authority when we notice something might be unjust (don't get this mixed up with threatening or harming cops though). Among a certain percentage of the public, there is a trust issue with police that speaks to how the law is served, whether there's racial bias or what have you. Just accepting all law enforcement actions as justified or believing every officer is all about upholding the law with the greatest sense of morality is too naive imho. My thankfulness for law enforcement only goes so far.

 

[Bocefish]

No doubt about it, there are good and bad cops. In my somewhat considerable experience, the bad ones are a very small percentage, comparatively, and more often than not, reputation precedes those not so good ones. There are also entire towns where the police are corrupt and focused on generating revenue. That said, I generally treat all LEOs with respect and honesty. Anyone that voluntarily puts on that uniform and willing to risk their lives on a daily basis for the greater good, or strangers they've never met, deserves respect until proven otherwise imo.

.02

 

[Osmia]

....as it is our given right to challenge authority when we notice something might be unjust (don't get this mixed up with threatening or harming cops though).

All local US police agencies that I'm aware of report to an an appointed or elected management official (e.g., city manager or mayor), and are ultimately accountable to elected representatives such as a city council. So, anyone wanting to challenge actions or behavior of the police should work through those political channels. Public protests and social media campaigns can be a useful adjunct to working the political process, but it's no substitute. That's not to say it will be easy--city leaders tend to give the police the benefit of the doubt unless there is a major incident or scandal.

Contact your city council person (or whatever it's called where you are) either by phone or letter (I prefer a letter for my initial contact) and clearly and respectfully lay out the problem you're concerned about, what your goal is, and what you're willing to do to work within the system to help achieve the goal. In other words, if you convey that you are willing to be a constructive part of a solution, then you'll be taken more seriously. Every day, these representatives have to listen to a lot of complaining by citizens, including a lot of petty BS, and if you can rise above that level, you'll have an advantage.

You have to be persistent and not be discouraged. Big things in government don't happen overnight. Success depends on getting the right people involved (and/or the wrong people excluded), fortuitous timing, and luck.

(My father was a city manager all his professional life, and that's what my brother's career is also.)

 

[Mikey_P]

The police and the public should treat each other with respect.

We need to stop calling police heroes just because they wear the uniform, the same is true for soldiers.

The police need to take responsibility for their wrongdoing.

The public needs to recognize when they escalate situations that lead to the police using force.

Everyone needs to check their BS.

People have the right to protest and without BLM protesting and making a ton of noise society would easily forget and move on. BLM is maturing and working with local elected politicians to achieve some of their goals.

 

[Bocefish]

Heroes are indeed rare and by no means merely wearing the uniform qualifies anyone as such. I'd like to share something from somebody that I respect:

As a proud American, a father who lost his own dad in a senseless act of violence, and a black man, I have been deeply troubled by the deaths of African-Americans at the hands of law enforcement and angered by the cowardly and hateful targeting and killing of police officers. I grieve with the families who have lost loved ones, as I know their pain all too well.

“I was raised by parents who taught me to love and respect people regardless of their race or background, so I am saddened and frustrated by the divisive rhetoric and racial tensions that seem to be getting worse as of late. I know this country is better than that, and I can no longer stay silent. We need to find solutions that ensure people of color receive fair and equal treatment AND that police officers – who put their lives on the line every day to protect us all – are respected and supported.

“Over the past three decades I have seen up close the dedication of the law enforcement officers who protect me and my family. I have the greatest respect for their sacrifice and service. I also recognize that for many people of color their experiences with law enforcement have been different than mine. I have decided to speak out in the hope that we can come together as Americans, and through peaceful dialogue and education, achieve constructive change.

“To support that effort, I am making contributions of $1 million each to two organizations, the International Association of Chiefs of Police’s newly established Institute for Community-Police Relations and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. The Institute for Community-Police Relations’ policy and oversight work is focused on building trust and promoting best practices in community policing. My donation to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the nation’s oldest civil rights law organization, will support its ongoing work in support of reforms that will build trust and respect between communities and law enforcement. Although I know these contributions alone are not enough to solve the problem, I hope the resources will help both organizations make a positive difference.

“We are privileged to live in the world’s greatest country – a country that has provided my family and me the greatest of opportunities. The problems we face didn’t happen overnight and they won’t be solved tomorrow, but if we all work together, we can foster greater understanding, positive change and create a more peaceful world for ourselves, our children, our families and our communities.”

 

[LioraVox]

Heroes are indeed rare and by no means merely wearing the uniform qualifies anyone as such. I'd like to share something from somebody that I respect:

As a proud American, a father who lost his own dad in a senseless act of violence, and a black man, I have been deeply troubled by the deaths of African-Americans at the hands of law enforcement and angered by the cowardly and hateful targeting and killing of police officers. I grieve with the families who have lost loved ones, as I know their pain all too well.

“I was raised by parents who taught me to love and respect people regardless of their race or background, so I am saddened and frustrated by the divisive rhetoric and racial tensions that seem to be getting worse as of late. I know this country is better than that, and I can no longer stay silent. We need to find solutions that ensure people of color receive fair and equal treatment AND that police officers – who put their lives on the line every day to protect us all – are respected and supported.

“Over the past three decades I have seen up close the dedication of the law enforcement officers who protect me and my family. I have the greatest respect for their sacrifice and service. I also recognize that for many people of color their experiences with law enforcement have been different than mine. I have decided to speak out in the hope that we can come together as Americans, and through peaceful dialogue and education, achieve constructive change.

“To support that effort, I am making contributions of $1 million each to two organizations, the International Association of Chiefs of Police’s newly established Institute for Community-Police Relations and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. The Institute for Community-Police Relations’ policy and oversight work is focused on building trust and promoting best practices in community policing. My donation to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the nation’s oldest civil rights law organization, will support its ongoing work in support of reforms that will build trust and respect between communities and law enforcement. Although I know these contributions alone are not enough to solve the problem, I hope the resources will help both organizations make a positive difference.

“We are privileged to live in the world’s greatest country – a country that has provided my family and me the greatest of opportunities. The problems we face didn’t happen overnight and they won’t be solved tomorrow, but if we all work together, we can foster greater understanding, positive change and create a more peaceful world for ourselves, our children, our families and our communities.”

Who are you quoting here, if you don't mind sharing.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Who are you quoting here, if you don't mind sharing.

Michael Jordan.
I posted the link to it a few posts up.

 

[Ms_Diane]

Anybody feel like talking about how being a police officer compares with other jobs? Especially public sector and helping professions which are also high stress? Obviously in most other jobs you are not as likely to be putting your life in danger, but can be similar in a lot of other ways.

I wonder if there is a high burn out rate with cops like there is with other high stress jobs likes paramedics, nurses, social workers, fire fighters, etc. And I wonder if these different professions deal with burn out differently. And is there pressure to stay on the job when they're burnt out, which could be for different reasons, maybe pensions, maybe feeling like they have to "man up" or just can't afford to quit or it's too hard to find work in a less stressful environment. So are burnt out cops walking around doing their best but fucking things up sometimes? Which if that is true, would be addressed as part of the larger problem of police violence or just the culture of police in general.

I also wish there was some way to get the real scoop on the different reasons police officers go into this line of work to begin with. It would be fascinating but it's also a point that always comes up - are these guys motivated by wanting to do good, because it runs in their family, or is it the power hungry thing? There are totally social workers who wield their power in truly awful ways, but I don't think they get into it for the power to begin with, in my experience.

I heard on the radio the other day someone talking about how cops have to do too many things. They have to deal with domestic issues (not always violent), people with mental health issues, traffic violations, and this person listed a whole bunch of really different stuff. This was a good point in how important training is for police officers. It also made me think that there could be more people with different professional backgrounds sharing some this work. I know some places are trying to do this to deal with mental health issues. In the public health sector (in Canada anyway) there is this push for a "multidisciplinary approach" which is a barfy buzzword and if our health system wasn't so fucked it could actually be great. People fall through the cracks all the time and don't receive the help they need. I think you could look at policing the same way, they are serving a lot of different people with different needs. Obviously funding is a major issue for why public services are so dysfunctional and then that leads to the professionals getting burnt out and their ability to do good work goes out the window. Not sure if police are lacking in funding - as they are armed up to their necks with all kinds of handy devices, but I digress.

I come from a family of nurses and worked in foster care and publicly funded care facilities for adults with disabilities, so burn out is familiar territory. Sorry if it is kind of a disorganized tangent, but I've got one more "I wonder" and then you can fling poo, as they say

I wonder if more police officers will start speaking up about things they would like to see change or what they think are problems in their departments. Most of the ones I've heard are former cops, but there was one who made a video of herself speaking her mind and she is currently working as a cop.

 

[Bocefish]

Anybody feel like talking about how being a police officer compares with other jobs?

It gives me a warm fuzzy that you think LEOs would risk responding on this site.