I dont even know what to say. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/trump-transgender-military.html
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Trump has banned Transgender people from the military
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Being prior military, I support his decision.
There are way too many sexual identities than the military can deal with.
Not to mention people joining solely to have their surgeries paid for.
What would you do Guy?
There are way too many sexual identities than the military can deal with.
Not to mention people joining solely to have their surgeries paid for.
What would you do Guy?
How would transgender people in the military do any harm? They are people too.
Being trans is not a "sexual identity". And literally no one is going to do that. Regardless, the military currently spends 5x more on Viagra than the projected costs of providing care to trans soldiers. This isn't about money, it's all part of this government's attempts to isolate trans people from society. Just like all of those bathroom bills.
SavannahQ
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"too many sexual identities than the military can deal with"
what exactly is the burden here compared to what the military already throws money away on? they have sunk billions of dollars into unused machinery, improper uniforms, viagra, the list goes on. not to mention that Donald Trump's golfing trips alone cost tax payers $3 million whenever he so chooses. so I'm confused here, why exactly are you pulling the plug on transgender people?
I appreciated the ACLU reminding us that he can't change things with a tweet, it needs to go through proper channels. So, nothing is in effect yet. Not that that makes it okay, or means the desired effect of alienation and distress hasn't taken place. But, I do think it's an important distinction (in reference to the topic title).
Do you feel the same about people who sign up to get their tuition paid for?
I don't care what a person identifies as or what genitalia they have, if they want to join, more power to them.
Earning an education compared to sex change surgery through the military is comparable in your opinion?
If you think it's wrong to join for any reason but the burning desire to serve your country, then yeah, I do think they're comparable. Either it's okay to join because of the benefits or it's not.
No worries... your oblivious nature will eventually bring you back to reality.
SavannahQ
Inactive Cam Model
would you be this contentious about someone joining the military for the superior healthcare benefits? I think most people join the military for a variety of reasons and the benefits (school, healthcare, housing) are ultimately what make it worthwhile for a lot of them.
do you really think that trans people are making the decision to potentially die in combat solely for selfish purposes? and if they really are joining exclusively to pay for reassignment surgery, even if it means being subject to the horrors of war, doesn't that speak volumes to how essential it is for trans people to be able to live out their lives as their authentic selves?
SavannahQ
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you could explain your position and have a legitimate discussion with me rather than trying to dodge my very direct post with condescension, but it seems like you don't actually have an arguable point.
Fortunately, he cannot change things that easily.
If he does though, that a-hole can nibble on my fat, juicy lady wiener.
If he does though, that a-hole can nibble on my fat, juicy lady wiener.
The orange toupe'd fucktrumpet is an absolute joke if you are willing to fight and die for your country it shouldn't really matter if you are transgender or not
Also you might want to change the lyric in your national anthem from "the land of the free and the home of the brave " to "the land of the free and the home of the brave except oor Dave who used to be called Sue"
Also you might want to change the lyric in your national anthem from "the land of the free and the home of the brave " to "the land of the free and the home of the brave except oor Dave who used to be called Sue"
Luckyfoxxy
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I agree with the surgery sentiment, but it's as easy as just cutting the funding. Admin, tech, and infosec should still be open.
Throwing out the sex reassignment costs since after the state of Walter Reed they might just have rats gnawing off the giblets and calling that good. Veteran health care and housing isn't something I'd wish on anyone I like.
The man started with a good point. You're taking people in their physical prime of life, with around a HS education and limited experience of the world and throwing them together. They're young, fit, horny as bunnies and while they enjoy sex they've been thinking about other things as they sign up. They're not as sexually enlightened as readers here.
While the military has been useful in introducing races to each other in a way that profited those who came home, that's not its mission. The armed forces kill people and break things - anything that distracts from that gets more of ours killed. It's all very sad when people die, but we want our war machine to work better than theirs.
That we're still debating bathrooms is proof enough that this shouldn't be a combat distraction.
An interesting point on this one is how Trump exaggerated the amount being spent on trans people in the military. An interesting fact is that the military spends more money on drugs for erectile dysfunction on their troops than they do supporting their trans troops.
Hopefully the people being kicked out of the military are going to be offered support and some kind of financial compensation.
Hopefully the people being kicked out of the military are going to be offered support and some kind of financial compensation.
Come on... let's not beat around the bush, this has nothing to do with "costs". Costs are just an excuse for people's transphobia. We are talking about a group of people who have been consistently discriminated against and rejected from society. While there is still plenty of homophobia in the world, being gay has had a lot of emphasis put on becoming normalised. While becoming transgender is still a relatively new concept in terms of being normalised in society. There are many people who fear the idea of it and don't like the idea of people not fitting into perfect gender categories. I don't know if America is the same as England, but here there have been people in the Army who have received plastic surgery, nothing to do with trans people. Looking at the figures, the potential costs of transgender people within the military would be nothing compared to how much is already spend on current medical bills. Besides that if someone is already transgender, they hardly need to go through an operation do they? Surely there could just be a rule that the military will only pay out so much in plastic surgery/hormones which would be equal to how much cisgender people would receive.
That there are people assuming that trans people will automatically be joining the army to get free surgery, and not, you know... Wanting to actually serve like anyone else, just shows how transphobic people really are. In the responses against them being able to join the military it goes by the assumption that the only reason they would serve is due to wanting free surgery. But of course it isn't free, you need to be in the military and may end up risking your life. Besides the fact that joining the military as a trans person probably wouldn't be all that great, just looking at how women are treated in the military is enough to show that. So hey, maybe it will persuade more trans people to sign up, but I doubt many (if any) would join the military for the sole reason of getting free surgery.
I believe that rejecting a group of people from the military causes significantly more problems than what it might solve. You are isolating a group of people and saying that cannot serve for their country, that is not dissimilar to telling the group that they now cannot vote. You are putting them outside of society, shunning them from a place where everyone else is able to enter. If they have a dream growing up of fighting for their country but also happen to be trans, they now cannot live out their dream. By doing this it says that transphobia is ok. It confirms that trans people are "less than" everyone else and not worthy of the same rights. You segregate that group.
That there are people assuming that trans people will automatically be joining the army to get free surgery, and not, you know... Wanting to actually serve like anyone else, just shows how transphobic people really are. In the responses against them being able to join the military it goes by the assumption that the only reason they would serve is due to wanting free surgery. But of course it isn't free, you need to be in the military and may end up risking your life. Besides the fact that joining the military as a trans person probably wouldn't be all that great, just looking at how women are treated in the military is enough to show that. So hey, maybe it will persuade more trans people to sign up, but I doubt many (if any) would join the military for the sole reason of getting free surgery.
I believe that rejecting a group of people from the military causes significantly more problems than what it might solve. You are isolating a group of people and saying that cannot serve for their country, that is not dissimilar to telling the group that they now cannot vote. You are putting them outside of society, shunning them from a place where everyone else is able to enter. If they have a dream growing up of fighting for their country but also happen to be trans, they now cannot live out their dream. By doing this it says that transphobia is ok. It confirms that trans people are "less than" everyone else and not worthy of the same rights. You segregate that group.
Agreed. Also I think it's crazy that the most powerful leader in the world chose to announce it via twitter, instead of a press conference. There were no signs of empathy in his tweets, no reassurance, not even a thanks for the time they spent serving the military.
It's very insensitive at best and a real insult to the 15000 people who put their lives on the line defending their country.
Luckyfoxxy
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It's really why I think the whole point was to distract from Russia's probe(also I'm sure he wants to keep dollar falling for a while).
If he truly wanted transgender people out of military he could've done it more subtly and fly under the radar of most of the population.
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SavannahQ
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it isn't about money. as has been stated before, if he was truly concerned about military spending, cuts would have been made in a plethora of other places long before impacting anyone's healthcare. this administration is deeply anti-LGBT and that is the only reason why trans people are being targeted. otherwise, they wouldn't have turned around and done this.
this is all about setting precedent for continued LGBT disclusion, discrimination, and oppression.
"In one fell swoop, Trump’s DOJ has provided a roadmap for dismantling years of federal protections and declared that lesbian, gay, and bisexual people may no longer be protected by landmark civil rights laws such as the Fair Housing Act, Title IX, or Title VII. For over a decade, courts have determined that discrimination on the basis of LGBTQ status is unlawful discrimination under federal law. Today's filing is a shameful retrenchment of an outmoded interpretation that forfeits faithful interpretation of current law to achieve a politically-driven and legally specious result.”
Luckyfoxxy
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I disagree. It's Trump, he's always been about money not discrimination for the sake of discrimination. You don't become a multi-billionaire with motivations like that and he's not even particurly christian.
In one move he appealed to military class and a bulk of his voters, promised to cut costs and distracted from Russia for one sec.
SavannahQ
Inactive Cam Model
do you think multi-billionaires can't be deeply discriminatory towards minority groups? I assure you that there are many, many, many "successful" (if that's what you want to call Trump with his cargo train of bankruptcies) businessmen who spend much of their money on anti-LGBT (and anti-black, anti-native, etc.) funding. see: the Koch brothers
also, did you read the link I posted? this administration is now openly filing to strip away anti-discrimination protections for LGBT individuals. why do you still believe that Trump wasn't motivated by transphobia?
Luckyfoxxy
Inactive Cam Model
No, I'm just saying Trump isn't motivated by ideological reasons. We woud hear about his transphobia before he became the president.
It does not if you read this one: http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/...ederal_law_doesn_t_protect_gay_employees.html
The Attorney General argues the current federal law doesn't protect gay employees. It used to simply be interpreted that way.
The LGBT rights groups can now push for the proper anti-discriminatory legislature.
I am not surprised with him, with anyone else I would be mortified. But with Trump I kind of feel like the whole reason he wanted to become president was so he could troll the internet, so if anyone trolled him back he'd be like "Well I'm the president of America, so there!". He's the kind of person who just wants to go onto social media and announce his power and how he's going to make up some ridiculous law. At the end of the day, he isn't fit to be a mayor, let alone president. He's not for the people, he's for himself just as he has been through his entire business career, and he continued a pattern of preying on people's unhappiness and using his money and power to get what he wanted. I honestly don't know with him whether he is genuinely a bigot, or he just loves making click bait for giggles.
Watching the video on that article when he supports LGBTQ people, he says it in such a tone that he's missing the inverted comma air signs, but you know they're there.
I thought that too. I suppose the silver lining in this is that when his first term is up he's unlikely to have the vote of the LGBTQ community for his second term, which makes up a large portion of the voting public.
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This was the biggest insult IMO, what REALLY pissed me off. He can't change rules with a tweet but he can change social discourse and show callous and disrespect. The tweet was completely unnecessary, 100%. It served no purpose other than the spark his support base and shove a middle finger in the face of the LGBTQ community for the sake of doing so. It was deliberately hurtful for the purpose of being divisive and it's a shameful embarrassment.
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And honestly I don't think Trump is a bigot, I don't think he's anything. I think he's an empty shell of a man who will do whatever it takes to win and make his base happy no matter what he believes because I don't think he actually believes in anything but himself.
Yep - while Trump has been doing a lot of things to remove protections to a lot of groups, this one feels more like a distraction than anything - it came shortly after Manafort got a subpoena to testify (which was later withdrawn as he delivered documents they had requested and agreed to set up a formal interview) and more evidence keeps appearing of his collusion. And also right in the middle of the mess of the healthcare vote, which got considerably less coverage yesterday than Trump's tweets.
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