Why can't cam girls be ambitious?

[candyblues_mfc]

This is'nt so much as a question as it is a mini rant, but I wanted to get some views from non models too...
I'm interested in hearing opinions on...

Why does it seem there is sometimes a lot of hostility towards girls in the Top20 on MFC, in regards too them "earning too much"?
Why does it sometimes feel like (too me personally?) that you are not allowed to be ambitious, or to want to succeed? (I say this because of the comments I get from people that are generally negative re:"you might not do well this month"....or......"maybe that goal is too high"
There seems to be an attitude, sometimes hidden deep beneath members, that most of us should be happy with what we get.
I've seen a few tweets n comments that talk about the fact if you go to the end of MFC you fine some lovely girls that are cheaper and "happy enough to be able to pay rent and not a new car".

I know ALOT of members are not like this...and I suspect the members of act are even less likely, I'd still like to know opnions.

This was inspired by the thread re:how much we earn. I do get frustrated when challenged with that as it is up to US as cam girls to decide what monetary value we place on our time and our body, it seems some people don't like that...

?!?!! Thoughts??!?!

X

 

[JessicaLapin]

From other models? IMO one word: jealously :naughty:

I admire and look up to any girl busting her ass out there and doing well.

From guys? If it's a one liner about my prices being too high then I just assume they can't afford it. Follow up comments about lowering a price are just insulting. That's just a false hope that I'll take there advice and lower them to what is affordable for them.
Sure some guys may be just trying to help but ultimately the model is deciding what her time and effort are worth.

Guys can get jealous of the kind of money cam models are able to rake in as well.

I'm sure there are varying reasons from thinking that we getting paid large just to just dance around and look pretty, i.e we don't deserve that kind of money for what "little" effort we have to give. HAH.. to deep seated issues with woman earning money from their sexuality. Yes even if they are participating on webcam sites..of course I'm just theorizing..I'll let the men weigh in.

 

[Koolguy321]

Why does it seem there is sometimes a lot of hostility towards girls in the Top20 on MFC, in regards too them "earning too much"?

Just a thought but I think some members get annoyed by the fact that a top model can set a countdown of 1,000-3,000 or so just for topless and see that model quickly meet that countdown,
while at the same time the model they watch, struggles to complete a countdown of 500-1000 or so for naked or even a show.

Obviously you are going to put your countdown higher, the more popular you become, to take advantage of the popularity,
but whenever you see a model complaining about a slow night,
i think they should remember that a slow night for them is the equivalent of a great night for most other models.

 

[candyblues_mfc]

Why does it seem there is sometimes a lot of hostility towards girls in the Top20 on MFC, in regards too them "earning too much"?

Just a thought but I think some members get annoyed by the fact that a top model can set a countdown of 1,000-3,000 or so just for topless and see that model quickly meet that countdown,
while at the same time the model they watch, struggles to complete a countdown of 500-1000 or so for naked or even a show.

Obviously you are going to put your countdown higher, the more popular you become, to take advantage of the popularity,
but whenever you see a model complaining about a slow night,
i think they should remember that a slow night for them is the equivalent of a great night for most other models.

See I would t say its taking "advantage" I'd say... thats business sense.
But I agree with what you say.

Thanks for feed back so far, look forward to waking up to more POV.

 

[Koolguy321]

See I would t say its taking "advantage" I'd say... thats business sense.
But I agree with what you say.
Thanks for feed back so far, look forward to waking up to more POV.

Yeah i would agree with that and totally makes sense to, thats what i meant about taking advantage, sorry for the not explaining that correctly.


With members saying about putting your countdown lower or saying you wont make it,

i really cant think of why someone would say such a thing, it is something i would never think of saying to a model.
I would maybe only say it, if i felt the model wasnt going to make the countdown, and i didnt want to see her be disappointed or feel like the night was waste of time.
But even then a model obviously knows that she should maybe lower her countdown if is going too slow,
so it still something i wouldn't say to a model, if anything i would maybe tell a model her countdown is too low lol.

 

[Alexandra Cole]

Some people believe cam girls are paid for "doing nothing," so successful cam girls are going to bear the brunt of that hostility. Aspire to make more and, to someone who thinks that way, you're aspiring to make more for "doing nothing." And I think a lot of that resentment comes from he visibility of tips. When people see how much someone else tips, they're reminded, constantly, how much she's receiving. If you believe it's for "nothing," and if you're a little too concerned with how much other people make, you're probably going to have a problem with cam girls who are financially successful.

And I can imagine that if someone's struggling financially, and they don't understand what camming involves, they could have a hard time watching someone get paid well.

I'm sure there are other factors. Some people have a love/hate relationship to sex. Some people have a love/hate relationship to sex workers. Some people have a lot of shit to work out and lack the self-awareness to notice their own baggage. Some people get more pleasure out of hating something than enjoying it.

And some people don't seeing camming as an ambition worth pursuing. Of course, that stigma is loaded with hypocrisy, but whatever. It's there for some people. And those people are no fun at all.

 

[theRileyDaniels]

I cant even imagine the work top 20 girls put in. Im tired working my shifts, but just thinking about working 60 hours a week makes me wanna take a nap. They are badass bitches and they deserve trophies!

 

[Delta]

Some people believe cam girls are paid for "doing nothing," so successful cam girls are going to bear the brunt of that hostility. Aspire to make more and, to someone who thinks that way, you're aspiring to make more for "doing nothing." And I think a lot of that resentment comes from he visibility of tips. When people see how much someone else tips, they're reminded, constantly, how much she's receiving. If you believe it's for "nothing," and if you're a little too concerned with how much other people make, you're probably going to have a problem with cam girls who are financially successful.

And I can imagine that if someone's struggling financially, and they don't understand what camming involves, they could have a hard time watching someone get paid well.

Yes, I feel like a lot of this is the financial indiscretion in offering/partaking in a sexual service. It's expensive, for the reason that not many people are willing to do it, and the logical conclusion for some is that the lack of morality is what is earning them the money. And the more money they make, the less morality (or self respect, or honesty, or whatever) they have.

 

[jessie125]

Some people believe cam girls are paid for "doing nothing," so successful cam girls are going to bear the brunt of that hostility. Aspire to make more and, to someone who thinks that way, you're aspiring to make more for "doing nothing." And I think a lot of that resentment comes from he visibility of tips. When people see how much someone else tips, they're reminded, constantly, how much she's receiving. If you believe it's for "nothing," and if you're a little too concerned with how much other people make, you're probably going to have a problem with cam girls who are financially successful.

And I can imagine that if someone's struggling financially, and they don't understand what camming involves, they could have a hard time watching someone get paid well.

Yes, I feel like a lot of this is the financial indiscretion in offering/partaking in a sexual service. It's expensive, for the reason that not many people are willing to do it, and the logical conclusion for some is that the lack of morality is what is earning them the money. And the more money they make, the less morality (or self respect, or honesty, or whatever) they have.

I initially thought this to be the case, but I now believe it to be false. There are lots of models who are willing to show everything on a cam; why aren't the most successful models the ones who show the most? If this relationship between earnings and willingness to ignore morality were true, then this would be the case. But it is not.

So then is it attractiveness? The most beautiful women are the most successful? I understand that beauty is subjective, but here again there is no direct correlation between beauty and web cam success. While members compliment me every time I do a show...no man in my life has ever taken the time to compliment my appearance in real life. In real life I understand that I'm the small quiet girl that no one notices. That's who I've always been and that's fine.

Amazing models do really well. But what is "amazing"? It's a combination of many things, and it differs from model to model. It's appearance, personality, energy level, experience, and probably twenty other things that all fall into place synergistically and THAT is what makes a model amazing to watch. If the sexual service aspect was inherent to cam modeling success, that fails to explain popular non-nude models, of which there are more than one who are consistently high performing (and therefore not anomalous). So this synergy doesn't even have to be X-rated, or even R-rated for that matter. In my case, for purely personal reasons I have recently decided I can show more on cam. Yet my earnings are no different from when I showed nothing more than my bra and peeks up my skirt.

And this synergy is rare, just like it is rare to find athletes who can put on performances that impress viewers and are therefore valuable. And for anyone who is familiar with labor economics, it is not "how difficult" the work is, but how difficult it is to find someone with the right skillset to do the job. Again, this is not correlated with how far you are willing to go on cam, but with your overall entertainment value. The model that helped me get started placed #8 last month while never having shown any naughty bits. EVER. Yet despite a PG-13 performance, she obviously entertains members to a great degree...otherwise why would she have done so well and become so popular?

Finally, regarding our actual incomes - it is the viewing public that sets our salaries, not us. While some members may grumble about the amounts that models set for countdowns, no model sets a completely unattainable countdown. A model sets her prices at or below what the market will bear (or should); if my personal countdowns may seem high, they're not: I've never failed to reach a countdown, which means that I'm undercharging compared to what the viewing public is willing to pay. By how much? That I don't know, and I'm honestly not aggressive enough to find out.

Because this is entertainment, what the market is willing to pay is what sets a cam models salary. In the end, that is all that matters regarding what models earn; if it were TRULY unreasonable, models wouldn't earn what they earn.

 

[UncleThursday]

With members saying about putting your countdown lower or saying you wont make it,

To be fair, there are a few overly ambitious models who are new with their daily goal/topics.

I saw a model with a new model tag a few weeks back, had, in her topic, that her daily goal was 20k tokens. She came nowhere close to it from what I saw. I think her first topic was like 2k just to take her dress off, no mention of nudity at all. Come to think of it, I can't seem to remember seeing her since that day.

When a model is new, she can't expect the money to rain down on her. She's not established. She has no regs. She hasn't made a name for herself, so to speak, on the site(s) she is on. She may be super hot, but just being super hot doesn't mean the tokens/whatever payment method the site uses come flowing in.

20k tokens in a day is hard to hit for many established models, let alone one who has been on the site for less than a week. Many established models don't even come close to 10k tokens in a day. There's tons of models who would be ecstatic to come close to 10k tokens in a day.

Then there are some others who hit 10k tokens easily. Sometimes their topics are for that, and they can hit it a few times in a day. But, those are established models, with regs, with high camscores that people already know about.

I know a few who can hit multiple 5k+ topics in just a few hours. Then I also know some who can barely break 1k a day, some lower than that.

Being ambitious is fine. Pricing yourself out of making anything when new isn't ambition, though. It's money making suicide.

 

[Kickaz]

Some people believe cam girls are paid for "doing nothing," so successful cam girls are going to bear the brunt of that hostility. Aspire to make more and, to someone who thinks that way, you're aspiring to make more for "doing nothing." And I think a lot of that resentment comes from he visibility of tips. When people see how much someone else tips, they're reminded, constantly, how much she's receiving. If you believe it's for "nothing," and if you're a little too concerned with how much other people make, you're probably going to have a problem with cam girls who are financially successful.

And I can imagine that if someone's struggling financially, and they don't understand what camming involves, they could have a hard time watching someone get paid well.

Yes, I feel like a lot of this is the financial indiscretion in offering/partaking in a sexual service. It's expensive, for the reason that not many people are willing to do it, and the logical conclusion for some is that the lack of morality is what is earning them the money. And the more money they make, the less morality (or self respect, or honesty, or whatever) they have.

I initially thought this to be the case, but I now believe it to be false. There are lots of models who are willing to show everything on a cam; why aren't the most successful models the ones who show the most? If this relationship between earnings and willingness to ignore morality were true, then this would be the case. But it is not.

So then is it attractiveness? The most beautiful women are the most successful? I understand that beauty is subjective, but here again there is no direct correlation between beauty and web cam success. While members compliment me every time I do a show...no man in my life has ever taken the time to compliment my appearance in real life. In real life I understand that I'm the small quiet girl that no one notices. That's who I've always been and that's fine.

Amazing models do really well. But what is "amazing"? It's a combination of many things, and it differs from model to model. It's appearance, personality, energy level, experience, and probably twenty other things that all fall into place synergistically and THAT is what makes a model amazing to watch. If the sexual service aspect was inherent to cam modeling success, that fails to explain popular non-nude models, of which there are more than one who are consistently high performing (and therefore not anomalous). So this synergy doesn't even have to be X-rated, or even R-rated for that matter. In my case, for purely personal reasons I have recently decided I can show more on cam. Yet my earnings are no different from when I showed nothing more than my bra and peeks up my skirt.

And this synergy is rare, just like it is rare to find athletes who can put on performances that impress viewers and are therefore valuable. And for anyone who is familiar with labor economics, it is not "how difficult" the work is, but how difficult it is to find someone with the right skillset to do the job. Again, this is not correlated with how far you are willing to go on cam, but with your overall entertainment value. The model that helped me get started placed #8 last month while never having shown any naughty bits. EVER. Yet despite a PG-13 performance, she obviously entertains members to a great degree...otherwise why would she have done so well and become so popular?

Finally, regarding our actual incomes - it is the viewing public that sets our salaries, not us. While some members may grumble about the amounts that models set for countdowns, no model sets a completely unattainable countdown. A model sets her prices at or below what the market will bear (or should); if my personal countdowns may seem high, they're not: I've never failed to reach a countdown, which means that I'm undercharging compared to what the viewing public is willing to pay. By how much? That I don't know, and I'm honestly not aggressive enough to find out.

Because this is entertainment, what the market is willing to pay is what sets a cam models salary. In the end, that is all that matters regarding what models earn; if it were TRULY unreasonable, models wouldn't earn what they earn.

Agree 100%!

Also on a side note, my limit in public chat when I started was just taking my dress off (with no promised nudity)
My camscore was 800 to 2000 range, my dress off count was 2000 tokens and I got it 95% of the times.
Yes I got some people that never tipped complaining it was too high, but those people will always complain no matter what.

 

[Delta]

Some people believe cam girls are paid for "doing nothing," so successful cam girls are going to bear the brunt of that hostility. Aspire to make more and, to someone who thinks that way, you're aspiring to make more for "doing nothing." And I think a lot of that resentment comes from he visibility of tips. When people see how much someone else tips, they're reminded, constantly, how much she's receiving. If you believe it's for "nothing," and if you're a little too concerned with how much other people make, you're probably going to have a problem with cam girls who are financially successful.

And I can imagine that if someone's struggling financially, and they don't understand what camming involves, they could have a hard time watching someone get paid well.

Yes, I feel like a lot of this is the financial indiscretion in offering/partaking in a sexual service. It's expensive, for the reason that not many people are willing to do it, and the logical conclusion for some is that the lack of morality is what is earning them the money. And the more money they make, the less morality (or self respect, or honesty, or whatever) they have.

I initially thought this to be the case, but I now believe it to be false. There are lots of models who are willing to show everything on a cam; why aren't the most successful models the ones who show the most? If this relationship between earnings and willingness to ignore morality were true, then this would be the case. But it is not.

So then is it attractiveness? The most beautiful women are the most successful? I understand that beauty is subjective, but here again there is no direct correlation between beauty and web cam success. While members compliment me every time I do a show...no man in my life has ever taken the time to compliment my appearance in real life. In real life I understand that I'm the small quiet girl that no one notices. That's who I've always been and that's fine.

Amazing models do really well. But what is "amazing"? It's a combination of many things, and it differs from model to model. It's appearance, personality, energy level, experience, and probably twenty other things that all fall into place synergistically and THAT is what makes a model amazing to watch. If the sexual service aspect was inherent to cam modeling success, that fails to explain popular non-nude models, of which there are more than one who are consistently high performing (and therefore not anomalous). So this synergy doesn't even have to be X-rated, or even R-rated for that matter. In my case, for purely personal reasons I have recently decided I can show more on cam. Yet my earnings are no different from when I showed nothing more than my bra and peeks up my skirt.

And this synergy is rare, just like it is rare to find athletes who can put on performances that impress viewers and are therefore valuable. And for anyone who is familiar with labor economics, it is not "how difficult" the work is, but how difficult it is to find someone with the right skillset to do the job. Again, this is not correlated with how far you are willing to go on cam, but with your overall entertainment value. The model that helped me get started placed #8 last month while never having shown any naughty bits. EVER. Yet despite a PG-13 performance, she obviously entertains members to a great degree...otherwise why would she have done so well and become so popular?

Finally, regarding our actual incomes - it is the viewing public that sets our salaries, not us. While some members may grumble about the amounts that models set for countdowns, no model sets a completely unattainable countdown. A model sets her prices at or below what the market will bear (or should); if my personal countdowns may seem high, they're not: I've never failed to reach a countdown, which means that I'm undercharging compared to what the viewing public is willing to pay. By how much? That I don't know, and I'm honestly not aggressive enough to find out.

Because this is entertainment, what the market is willing to pay is what sets a cam models salary. In the end, that is all that matters regarding what models earn; if it were TRULY unreasonable, models wouldn't earn what they earn.

Not so much about how explicit a model is. Streaming yourself live on a site like MFC opens you up to being viewed sexually one way or another, no matter how many clothes you are or aren't wearing.

What I was referring to is, is in general, how selling time, attention, affection or skin, can generate a lot of disdain from some people for simply being the exchange that it is.

 

[Delta]

Because this is entertainment, what the market is willing to pay is what sets a cam models salary. In the end, that is all that matters regarding what models earn; if it were TRULY unreasonable, models wouldn't earn what they earn.

Just wanted to elaborate (the early morning grogg got in the way), particularly on the bit above.

Jessie, I agree with what you say in that models with that particular charisma are more successful, regardless of how explicit they're willing to go.
On a site like MFC, where the income potential is primarily in the tipping system, that's usually how that charisma is acknowledged. Some members get it, some don't. Some would rather take a model private in lieu of tipping her, some would rather just tip and take part in the social aspect of it in public, and some do a combination of both. I think a lot of those more hostile members don't understand the concept of tips, or why another member would willingly tip a large amount for apparently 'nothing'. Maybe these members see it as exploitation of the tipping members on the part of the models when a model decides to increase her ranking or income.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I think there are a number of reasons why a member might resent a model's success. None of them valid. I think models hating on other model's successes is ultimately little more than professional jealousy.

Here be some reasons a member might get his pants in a twist when a successful model looks to become even more successful...

The Madonna/Whore complex - There is a school of thought that suggest men categorise women as being either attractive and sexually adventurous (the Whore) or respectful and sexually reserved (the Madonna). The theory goes on to suggest that men are incapable of respecting the former even though it's their boredom with the latter that has led them to covet these sexually super-charged nymphettes. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me but apparently it's a legitimate phenomenon and would at least go some way in explaining why (some) men exhibit so much disdain for the women that they happily consume as wank fodder.

Naivete - Before I joined this forum, I had no idea just how much behind the scenes work the average cam girl puts in to her profession. I just assumed that when a model logged off for the night, she just chilled, slept, went about her day and didn't have to worry about work until the moment she next decided to log on. I guess members see models working one 4 hour shift, four times a week, making more money in that week than most members probably earn in a month... and they assume that that model has it easy. While I think the more successful cam girls have been blessed with good fortune (born with the right looks, found by the right members, etc.) and there are many perks in camland that most people simply don't get in their working life, there's no getting away from the fact that these women work hard for their money and just because you can't see them on cam at any given time, it doesn't mean they're not working.

Not understanding how a free market operates - I think some members don't really get this free market thing. In a free market, if someone has a product that people want to buy, there's really no limit to how much that person can make in a very short amount of time. If a model advertises a group and a hundred people in her room want to go into group, then she stands to make a lot of money very quickly. I think some members hear that a model made a thousand dollars in less than an hour and become bitter at the fact that in order to make that kind of money, they'd have to work dozens of hours in potentially less than desirable conditions... while people are starving in Africa, dammit! They don't necessarily take into account that a free market dictates that very same model might have made less than minimum wage the previous hour, and might make less than that the following hour.

Also, some people are just dicks.

 

[Sevrin]

The only thing that bugs me is when models with high cam scores who work an average of an hour or two a day complain about their Miss MFC ranking. There's nothing "ambitious" about that. Work three hours twice a week, and your rank's gonna tank. If someone who busts her butt almost daily like Kickaz gets into the top 20 repeatedly, I bow my head in admiration.

The bulk of my tokens goes to models a bit further down the page these days, though. If I like a model, and want to see her stick around, you're darned right I'm going to support her. I'll try to help with topics, not because I want to see her naked for the umpteenth time, but because that seems to fill rooms and get models noticed.

Anyway, there's nothing in any of that stuff the OP talked about that's unique to cam girls. People are like that in every walk of life. A mailman gets promoted to supervisor, the other mailmen are gonna bitch.

 

[Koolguy321]

To be fair, there are a few overly ambitious models who are new with their daily goal/topics.
I saw a model with a new model tag a few weeks back, had, in her topic, that her daily goal was 20k tokens. She came nowhere close to it from what I saw. I think her first topic was like 2k just to take her dress off, no mention of nudity at all. Come to think of it, I can't seem to remember seeing her since that day.

Yeah i think some new models, see the top models with the high countdowns and expect to get the same. They need to remember that no one starts at the top, instead of working against the top models, instead look at the other new models because they are the real competition, see what there countdowns are or whatever and work on getting some regulars.

I feel bad for some of the new models, i don't really browse other models anymore, but when i did join a new model room, it was the same questions over and over -

"hey bb, you watch cams?" "skype bb?" "PM , about PVT bb" plus the 100's of requests without tips.

I sometimes tell new models in MFC mail, that guests and basics cannot tip you, and of course that if they start being annoying you can always mute them.

 

[UncleThursday]

Here's an example of being overly ambitious as a new model...



Within half an hour it looked like she got wise to the fact that pretty much no one was going to pay 6k tokens to a new model for topless, but she's still priced very high for a first nighter... There plenty of established models who can't get 3k just for topless.



Yeah, I give her a week before she either puts her prices at attainable levels until she builds up a fan base or quits out of frustration of not making her goals.

From the looks of things, if she did any research at all into the site before camming, she was only looking at the top camscore models on page 1 for ideas on pricing; and thought that was the norm. I should note that at this moment, having a 1k camscore puts her on page 2. Being on page 2 drops her ability to get viewers, let alone tippers, considerably.