Who are you voting for?

[yummybrownfox]

I had to google wtf Wawa was, by the way.

Sort of like a 7-11 store. Open 24 hours. But they also have their own gas station, and a deli counter with a variety of cold or hot foods that can be prepared for you. I even did a Clips4Sale vid once of me eating a BLT from Wawa. Lol. For a while, it was the only place near me where I could find a Snapple Apple drink (But I've found it at a few other places just recently). I even like the Wawa slurpees more than the 7-11 slurpees.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Update on the lil screaming black kid whos mamma kicked him out for mock voting for trump in school.. [links are on page 67 ]

Excellent. As soon as I saw that video I was hoping CPS would get involved. There's a parent who needs to be forced to go through a basic parenting skills course.

And that's ignoring the fact that people that are impoverished often don't have the time to make proper meals because they're busy trying to survive in other ways.

Don't have time, but also more so I think many people today, especially younger ones, just don't have the skill set. They were never brought up learning to cook meals from scratch. Either in school or at home. They never had to learn recipes. How to broil, braise, make a roux, make their own broths... If you set a bag of flour on the counter and asked them to make a cake they'd search for the box of cake mix you must be hiding.

Most of their parents grew up on box mixes and ready made ingredients from the store. Modern cook books have recipes like; buy a bag of Great Savings Brand™ premixed stuff, one jar This Brand™ flavored sauce, and a bag of Main Choice Meat Company™ pre-sliced meat. Mix, heat, and wrap in That Brand™ tortilla shells. Those recipe books aren't recipes, they're advertising!

Basically everything is just mixing stuff that's already done for you and way more expensive. So they have no basic cooking skills or recipes to pass on to their kids. They buy pre-made bag mixes that work out to $5 to $9 a meal and never realize making it from scratch they could get the cost down to a dollar a meal. And then they just wonder where all the money went when they can't make bills.

The rise of convenience foods combined with getting rid of Home Economics classes in schools, are horrible things to have happened to the younger generations. And most of them don't even realize it.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Yup, I've heard all this talk about gluten-free foods, and my eyes nearly bugged out the other day when I was in the store and saw the prices of some of these gluten-free items. And it'd be nice if they carried these items in bulk "Family Size" quantities...not these little "3 3 or 4 servings" boxes. Lol.

I shouldn't say this because it benefits me greatly but the gluten free diet without a food allergy (like I have) is pretty dumb and pointless. However the trendiness of it has made it possible for me to but delicious bullshit at any store!

 

[paige_orion]

Someone suggested this video to me today, and I found it pretty fascinating. It wasn't exactly what I was expecting, coming from Russell Brand, but I thought he really had some interesting points on both sides, about the conditions that lead to the unexpected election results and moving forward and almost a positive spin on it, sorta? I dunno. I am still sorting out my thoughts about it, but I thought a few of you might find it interesting

 

[BlairLuxe]

Someone suggested this video to me today, and I found it pretty fascinating. It wasn't exactly what I was expecting, coming from Russell Brand, but I thought he really had some interesting points on both sides, about the conditions that lead to the unexpected election results and moving forward and almost a positive spin on it, sorta? I dunno. I am still sorting out my thoughts about it, but I thought a few of you might find it interesting

When I saw that Russel Brand came back with the Trews a few weeks ago I was so fucking happy. He had stopped doing the Trews like a year ago, but now he's back. I don't always agree with him on everything, but he's such a breath of fresh air.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Excellent. As soon as I saw that video I was hoping CPS would get involved. There's a parent who needs to be forced to go through a basic parenting skills course.

I am a little surprised now that I have seen the video. Kept waiting for the shocking part.

I got put out of the house. I got put out of the car. I left home at 18 at gunpoint. I got beat bloody with belts and switches, and you can believe that crying that boy was doing would have been cause for one of those beatings.

 

[VeronicaChaos]

Someone suggested this video to me today, and I found it pretty fascinating. It wasn't exactly what I was expecting, coming from Russell Brand, but I thought he really had some interesting points on both sides, about the conditions that lead to the unexpected election results and moving forward and almost a positive spin on it, sorta? I dunno. I am still sorting out my thoughts about it, but I thought a few of you might find it interesting

This is a pretty great video, and makes a lot of sense. I feel quite bad for the dems who wanted Bernie so badly but got stuck with Clinton, who, as I've been saying from the beginning, has no actual, true supporters. It's not surprising at all that she lost to me, especially with her war record. (this post isn't directed towards you Paige, btw, just a response to the video itself and other musings on it)


I, like most of the people in my echo-chamber, totally freaked out when he got elected. It's really upsetting to see someone with such a bad image, particularly when it comes to sexual assault, be hired as America's leader by people we thought we could trust (for some reason, lol). I'll admit that I got "triggered" for the first time ever this week seeing it all unfold. But once I got over the effects of PTSD, I realized it's definitely something that needed to happen to wake people the fuck up. It's important to remember that the vast majority of people who elected him aren't super fond of him and his character, and they voted for him in spite of it out of desperation. Liberals have been so invested in the media and safe places and bathroom rights that they stopped paying attention to world issues.

Unpopular opinion: worrying about the legitimacy of your gay marriage, which bathroom you get to use, whether someone offends you or triggers you (which I now totally believe is real, but still!) is privilege when compared to the victims of Hillary's war crimes. And I think for a lot of people, it came down to what's more important: our silly first-world problems, or the threat of war. And yeah, there's a big racial divide going on here. Conservatives have been taught to be just as afraid of black people as black people are of getting shot for eating a candy bar. And the far right racist assholes who have always been there, that we've always known have been there, hailing Trump as their white Aryan hero definitely didn't help matters. Because he totally is a shitty racist. But now you've got liberals calling all Trump supporters racists when in reality a lot of them are concerned about the people getting killed by our current status quo government in other countries and, like everybody else in this crazy election, went for the least-scary option, and the only one who promised real change in a long time.

It's crazy that we even view Hillary as liberal. We know she's not and none of you wanted her and you still don't want her. Nobody wants Trump for sure, but nobody wanted her either. I think a lot of liberals feel cheated by their party, and rightfully so. I'm seeing a lot of misguided anger, but everyone needs to open their eyes and look around.

Here's another video that I quite enjoyed. It's got some issues, but it might give some food for thought. And if anyone is angry and scared, realize that's the proper response to any oppressive government, be it liberal or conservative.

 

[Henk]

You liked Sanders. So why didn't you vote Clinton?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Gee, almost sounds like Mr. Beck has broken character ...

Spoiler

Everybody in. All the the Democrats on the left...

lol "it's not fair!"

And I want all the Republicans on the right...

Praise His Holy Name!!! Jesus has the power to move graphs!!! Unless ...there is evil we must purge from our midst...there has to be some punishment.

But it is going to be ok.
The government is going to allow abortions to continue, and even has even extended "late-term" to mean "past birth up until the end of your natural life" (though I would hardly call it pro choice). They have no need for a gun registry; only people registries.

We have built our gulags, and life has gone on; heck, their stock prices even took a little jump the other day. The police state we have built will not interfere with anyone's daily life, barring any unforseen crisis. Whatever nightmare scenario you may be entertaining, it can't happen here. It's not like we just put a Christian nationalist in the White House and gave him something like the NDAA.

Now that I have had my dark giggles, a serious question: anybody else smell smoke last few days?

 

[Osmia]

This is a pretty great video, and makes a lot of sense. I feel quite bad for the dems who wanted Bernie so badly but got stuck with Clinton, who, as I've been saying from the beginning, has no actual, true supporters. It's not surprising at all that she lost to me, especially with her war record. (this post isn't directed towards you Paige, btw, just a response to the video itself and other musings on it)


I, like most of the people in my echo-chamber, totally freaked out when he got elected. It's really upsetting to see someone with such a bad image, particularly when it comes to sexual assault, be hired as America's leader by people we thought we could trust (for some reason, lol). I'll admit that I got "triggered" for the first time ever this week seeing it all unfold. But once I got over the effects of PTSD, I realized it's definitely something that needed to happen to wake people the fuck up. It's important to remember that the vast majority of people who elected him aren't super fond of him and his character, and they voted for him in spite of it out of desperation. Liberals have been so invested in the media and safe places and bathroom rights that they stopped paying attention to world issues.

Unpopular opinion: worrying about the legitimacy of your gay marriage, which bathroom you get to use, whether someone offends you or triggers you (which I now totally believe is real, but still!) is privilege when compared to the victims of Hillary's war crimes. And I think for a lot of people, it came down to what's more important: our silly first-world problems, or the threat of war. And yeah, there's a big racial divide going on here. Conservatives have been taught to be just as afraid of black people as black people are of getting shot for eating a candy bar. And the far right racist assholes who have always been there, that we've always known have been there, hailing Trump as their white Aryan hero definitely didn't help matters. Because he totally is a shitty racist. But now you've got liberals calling all Trump supporters racists when in reality a lot of them are concerned about the people getting killed by our current status quo government in other countries and, like everybody else in this crazy election, went for the least-scary option, and the only one who promised real change in a long time.

It's crazy that we even view Hillary as liberal. We know she's not and none of you wanted her and you still don't want her. Nobody wants Trump for sure, but nobody wanted her either. I think a lot of liberals feel cheated by their party, and rightfully so. I'm seeing a lot of misguided anger, but everyone needs to open their eyes and look around.

Here's another video that I quite enjoyed. It's got some issues, but it might give some food for thought. And if anyone is angry and scared, realize that's the proper response to any oppressive government, be it liberal or conservative.

I agree with most everything you said. For me, the most immediately disturbing reaction to Trump's election was the sense that I was living in a different country or even reality from "those people" (Trump voters). Of course, the flip side is that many of "those people" have felt for a long time that they were living in an alien dominant culture, whose values were not their own, and which seemed to either ignore them or even actively work against their interests. So, I think it's an unpleasant but useful feeling for liberals to experience and explore.

Having said that, I want to suggest that certain members of the "white working class"--those who are living in areas with no jobs and epidemics of drug use and suicide should take more responsibility for their circumstances and rent a U-Haul and move to where the jobs are! That's a time-honored response to economic or social adversity. I'm from a small town myself, and I can understand the desire to stay where you have roots, you know everyone and they know you. But that doesn't count for much if you can't make a living there. The government and society aren't obligated to artificially restore the economies of areas that are in decline due to long term structural forces; in fact, it would be counterproductive to do so. I wonder if anyone here has some thoughts on this issue, or personal experience.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

So, I think it's an unpleasant but useful feeling for liberals to experience and explore.

To what outcome?

Having said that, I want to suggest that certain members of the "white working class"--those who are living in areas with no jobs and epidemics of drug use and suicide should take more responsibility for their circumstances and rent a U-Haul and move to where the jobs are! That's a time-honored response to economic or social adversity. I'm from a small town myself, and I can understand the desire to stay where you have roots, you know everyone and they know you. But that doesn't count for much if you can't make a living there. The government and society aren't obligated to artificially restore the economies of areas that are in decline due to long term structural forces; in fact, it would be counterproductive to do so. I wonder if anyone here has some thoughts on this issue, or personal experience.

This paragraph inspired a brief flash of anger. When it comes to feelings, I have some white working class reserves to draw on. Contempt, even. Not for you, but for the Democrats. Shall I head to Haiti to look for work? I hear there is a new factory down there.

Curious though about the counterproductive bit. Elaborate?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...lanned-parenthood_us_5827514be4b0c4b63b0ce42c
This absolutely makes me want to vomit.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

http://www.truthdig.com/eartothegro...site_spreads_fake_news_with_doctored_20161112
Just something to consider. In case you didn't already know. There are people who want everyone angrier.
Angry is good sometimes. Uncontrolled anger will destroy you. Question everything.

 

[EspiKvlt]

You can't really be a camgirl and say with a straight face that men and women aren't different. Have you ever paid a man to jerk on cam for you? Would you ever?

I know this was a while ago, but I just found it pretty amusing because I watch cam girls and pay for their porn all the time.

No, I wouldn't pay a man to jerk off on cam because I'm not attracted to men AT ALL unless I develop an emotional attraction to them.

But I am SUPER into girls and pay for their porn all the time.

 

[Osmia]

To what outcome?

Empathy, mainly. With today's voluntary tribal segregation by political inclination and socio-economic status, empathy is needed more than ever. Regarding Trump supporters, the better I understand the perspective and motivations of my political "enemy," the more difficult it becomes to dismiss such people as misguided, "voting against their own interests," being "low-information voters," and other stereotypes and caricatures often employed by liberals. Of course, the Right has its own caricatures of those on the left. On both sides, these cartoonish views do nothing but reinforce tribal boundaries, which is not a good thing.

This paragraph inspired a brief flash of anger. When it comes to feelings, I have some white working class reserves to draw on. Contempt, even. Not for you, but for the Democrats. Shall I head to Haiti to look for work? I hear there is a new factory down there.

Curious though about the counterproductive bit. Elaborate?

Partly, it's a matter of acknowledging the free market's role in deciding where and how to invest in job-creating activities. The structural causes operate on a larger historical and geographic scale. For example, in the Plains states, small towns are steadily losing population, due mainly to the efficiencies of mechanized, large-scale commercial agriculture. That trend is never going to reverse itself unless consumers are willing to pay a lot more for their food. For the government to try to make that happen would take unimaginable resources and coercion.

 

[eyeteach]

I don't understand why she conceded before he even hit 270. My guesses are embarrassment or trying to create a peace that won't be here anytime soon. Either way, those seem like pretty pitiful reasons after such a brutal fight. Is there a better real reason she would do this? It's kind of hard to argue that she should be installed as the winner of the popular vote when she was so quick to throw her hands up.

Best guess is her people were trying to find enough votes in the outstanding districts to close the electoral vote to no more than the 269-268 mark and hope a third candidate earned enough electoral college votes to throw the election into the House of Representatives. In all honesty, by the time they marched Podesta out to give his "go home" talk Trump had surpassed 270; the media, for whatever reason, wouldn't call Wisconsin even though he had the popular vote and what few precincts that had yet to report were voting mostly republican. At that point she had absolutely no way that she could get those outstanding votes she needed, the numbers weren't there and no matter how they crunched them she could not get them.

 

[paige_orion]

I agree with most everything you said. For me, the most immediately disturbing reaction to Trump's election was the sense that I was living in a different country or even reality from "those people" (Trump voters). Of course, the flip side is that many of "those people" have felt for a long time that they were living in an alien dominant culture, whose values were not their own, and which seemed to either ignore them or even actively work against their interests. So, I think it's an unpleasant but useful feeling for liberals to experience and explore.

Having said that, I want to suggest that certain members of the "white working class"--those who are living in areas with no jobs and epidemics of drug use and suicide should take more responsibility for their circumstances and rent a U-Haul and move to where the jobs are! That's a time-honored response to economic or social adversity. I'm from a small town myself, and I can understand the desire to stay where you have roots, you know everyone and they know you. But that doesn't count for much if you can't make a living there. The government and society aren't obligated to artificially restore the economies of areas that are in decline due to long term structural forces; in fact, it would be counterproductive to do so. I wonder if anyone here has some thoughts on this issue, or personal experience.

Having spent a lot of time years ago in the Detroit area.... This last paragraph really inspired conflicting feelings. I have driven through the neighborhoods that used to be flourishing, a symbol of strong economy and hard work. Now, they literally look like disaster zones. I have walked through factories that used to bring so much life into the communities - and now they are covered in graffiti, broken glass, used condoms, needles, shreds of carpets used as mattresses, empty room after empty room of forgotten machinery and crumbled stone and the mess left by humans with no where else to go. I have seen the blocks of giant factories that now look as they should be within Chernobyl. It is such an eerie feeling to witness such things - monuments of despair and sadness, what happens when people everywhere give up and just... leave. Such beautiful buildings, now in a state of ruin, eternal stagnation. The symbol of what happens during such economic decline, and how dangerous it can be.

Luckily, I know an amazing community of young and older people who have refused to give up on their city, and are doing their part to try to breathe new life back into it. They know how great their city was, is, could be again, if enough people come together. I have seen them do such amazing, beautiful things - always fighting, never giving up, trying to CHANGE their world and their community, not just leave it in a state of decay. They aren't obligated to help each other, to help make things grow again - but they do it anyways, out of love and pride and determination. They plant the seeds in the rubble and leave today a better place than yesterday.

Is the government obligated to restore economies? I suppose not - but I would like to think it should be responsible for the well-being of its people, and help solve the forces that create areas where there are no jobs and an epidemic drug use. I think it is a bit of a dangerous philosophy, to give up on your home and just go to where there are new jobs. If everyone did that... It would be very counterproductive. It would just be a great migration from one booming city to another - and as the workers leave, the new city will lose its workforce, its soul - and no one would stick around for the cleanup, except the people who cannot afford to leave. Leaving them with the fallout of an abandoned economy.

I don't think anyone is obligated to stay in communities where it is harder to thrive, especially if they become areas that are ravaged by drug use or violence. Nor do I blame anyone for wanting to leave and seek a better future. But I guess I don't agree with saying that it is counterproductive to restore declining economies. I think it is very brave for communities to band together and keep fighting to make their worlds a better place. I think that is one of the most beautiful things about the human spirit - the desire to make things better, to bring about change, even when it feels impossible. To look adversity in the face and continue to persevere, all in hopes of making the world a better place.

 

[eyeteach]

Caucuses, delegates and electoral college all sound like a boatload of hootinanny to me.

It all comes down to numbers. 270 electoral votes needed to win. Trump finished with 307, Clinton with 228. Regardless of what spin the media put on this election going into Tuesday the final numbers say this election wasn't close.

 

[MsRoxieBabe]

A

I also voted for Jill Stein. I've always wondered what it would be like if there was no "but you HAVE to vote for one of the two!" narrative. A first past the post voting system naturally tends to fall to two parties at a certain point, though.

By the way, everyone... This is a really great video about why the First Past the Post system is flawed.

Very interesting video. Ya even my dad is not a trump supporter, and he voted for Hilary to try to be a vote to stop Trump from winning. His opinion is that Trump may be Hitler crazy. And he is not Hilary fan by any means, but he voted for Hilary instead of who he liked in fear of his vote being wasted, and Trump winning. My friend thinks Hilary is super corrupt, and dislikes her the most. She thinks Trumps obnoxious, and not very respectful towards women. But in her option Hilary's lies are worse so she votes for Trump instead of a smaller candidate she likes in fear of Hilary winning.

 

[JickyJuly]

How is the government not responsible, to some degree, for repair of local economies? We talk about government like it's a different entity from its people. It is not. If you're collecting money and dispersing it elsewhere, that is a responsibility and not trying to repair damaged places because folks can move is short sighted.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

How is the government not responsible, to some degree, for repair of local economies? We talk about government like it's a different entity from its people. It is not. If you're collecting money and dispersing it elsewhere, that is a responsibility and not trying to repair damaged places because folks can move is short sighted.

I don't think it is really the responsibility of Federal Government to provide jobs for people. I do believe the government (primarily local and state) has a responsibility to keep people from starving, and dying on the streets, and a big responsibility to make sure children are fed, housed and educated, regardless of their financial or other problems.

The west if filled with towns that use to be thriving communities in the late 1800s and early 1900 and now are deserted ghost towns, because their economic reason for existing disappeared, a new highway went it, the mine ran out, a new railroad was built. Not every town or city can or should be saved, some will die just like people.

I understand why the 40-year-old factory worker or coal miner is frustrated. Their jobs are gone and aren't coming back no matter what any politicians tell them. Sure, Federal government can and often does give you classes in web design, or X-Ray technician, or nurse. But they aren't a good fit if you weren't good students, and computers are frustrating. Even if you finish the course, Google and Apple aren't going to be opening facilities in Youngstown, OH, or Bluefield WV, because knowledge workers don't want to live there. With a shrinking population, the demand for health care works is also going done.

But for most of this century, there have been good high paying jobs in the Dakota oil fields, that didn't a college degree or computer skills. Idaho has very productive coal mines and needed workers, right now Boise has an unemployment rate of 2.6%. Helping these people find jobs in other areas of the country, and maybe providing them with moving assistance seems like a much better idea.

 

[Osmia]

How is the government not responsible, to some degree, for repair of local economies? We talk about government like it's a different entity from its people. It is not. If you're collecting money and dispersing it elsewhere, that is a responsibility and not trying to repair damaged places because folks can move is short sighted.

It can be the government's appropriate role to do so, but (IMHO, of course) only if that area/economy is "fixable" at a reasonable cost.

Economic development activity by governments is typically done at the local and state level. I'm being somewhat of a devil's advocate here, but it's hard to see what the federal government could do to fix Detroit (for example) other than throw a lot of money at it and offer huge incentives to lure good manufacturing jobs back to the city, rebuild the educational system, rebuild city services, demolish or renovate abandoned buildings, and provide any other amenities that any company would insist on before building or moving there. But it would probably be politically impossible for the federal government to do this, since it would be seen by taxpayers as a huge wealth transfer from different parts of the country to Detroit, where the likelihood of recovering that investment is not so good.

Using Detroit as an example again, maybe a model to go by is rebuilding a city a destroyed by war (e.g., German cities in WW II). But there isn't as much urgency with Detroit, since its decline has been slow, over decades. It's easy for political leaders to ignore it, or to periodically wring their hands and do nothing.

Again, I'm just trying to get other perspectives from people who know more about those areas, and to understand how people decide whether to stay, or relocate..

 

[LuckySmiles]

I haven't gotten to comment yet since Tuesday but Trump's win proved to me I wasn't taking crazy pills. I live in Michigan and have for several years, I'm also NYC girl born and raised, almost everyone I know in real life voted for Trump. Many of those same people voted for Obama or haven't voted in a long time.

I mean... I get that he won the bulk of the midwest states... no one really expected him to win NY and California... but like.... I'm not going to lie I'm bored of the whole "trump supporters being sad poor white people that need to be heard..."

Cause...the bulk of the trump voters I know personally are well educated, and/or tradesmen, not all white, mostly employed or business owners, most people I know who work "blue collar" jobs and city union jobs make a whole lot more money and often live more comfortably than people I know who work office "white collar" jobs. So I still feel like I'm in the twilight zone sometimes about the stereotypical trump voter... I'm not saying people who fit that bill didn't vote for Trump too... but I think part of peoples' problem grasping the win is they think these are the only people that did and that's the only reasons why and they need to "understand them better". (besides racism/sexism etc of course!)

Here's an example of my alternate universe where people are happy about Trump...Wednesday morning my local gas station/convenient store owner (middle eastern american legal immigrant) "Woo he did it! Trump won!" at like 8am... local middle aged black woman regular: "I know! I voted for him too I didn't want to say anything!" everyone in the gas station all smiles and happy.

I never expected Trump to win NY... but...let's look at some of the counties that went red in ny. Staten Island is NYC smallest borough/county (each borough of NYC is its own county) at half a million people... coincidentally the average home on staten island is also half a million dollars... these people mostly voted for trump, they're not exactly hurting for jobs, they live in nyc. But they are predominantly Italian and Puerto Rican so I'll give you the white people/maybe catholic conservative thing there.

Eastern Long Island... also extremely wealthy... voted for Trump.... most of Upstate NY voted for Trump...

The other thing is he won... but there are still many instances of voter fraud worth being looked into. He actually could have actually won by a larger margin. But it happens every election.

There's rumored to be a bunch of fraud here in Michigan(you know the state that just finally confirmed a trump flip yesterday)... a friend witnessed some attempts first hand...
I wouldn't doubt for a second there was voter fraud in the Bronx... (a county which went 88% for Clinton and has a rep for voter fraud in other political races) manhattan was around 67% clinton. The bronx likely also has more illegal citizens than any other NYC borough. I think there will be legal changes regarding this issue in time for the next election.

... I also have lots of former military peers and they voted for trump... And I sit next to my boyfriend, (trump train) who has a degree from pretty much the top school in his smarty pants field and we have all the eyerolls everytime the media says its the non college educated or these people who have "nothing left to lose" I mean...maybe that's partly true but it's also just people like us who have maybe a different view of things.

I moved from NY and I don't regret it ever. But I still know people working in Manhattan who voted for Trump and are silently watching everyone having meltdowns about him winning but can't say anything outloud in their artsy fartsy fields. Tell me again who's supposed to be intolerant? For the record I also don't know any real racists or sexists if that's still necessary to mention at this point.

I also have a different perspective on the illegal situation as someone who's been good friends with many people here illegally, I can still be honest and admit, especially in ny, they're not all "working for pennies"... I've known plenty of illegal people who wired $1000's of dollars back home every month (and no, not just mexican)
One of my own friends offered me $10,000 once upon a time for a green card marriage. You don't have that kind of money to buy your citizenship working for pennies.

There's also been an increase in gang crime(ms-13 and the like) in suburban NYC by illegal citizens from central America coming in through Mexico. You can't arrest illegal citizens for crimes, you can only deport, and they can come right back again if you have weak borders, and often do.

Most of Trump's platform were reasonable ideas, that appeal to reasonable americans. Also, yes, a big issue for me with hillary was her war rep. and everything else about her.
And I could go on and on.... but he won... I don't have to anymore... but the world is not gonna end over it...I'm so glad it's over.

 

[ga5457]

Just trying to inject a little humor in here.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/political-theatre/trump-forces-black-family-home/

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Empathy, mainly. With today's voluntary tribal segregation by political inclination and socio-economic status, empathy is needed more than ever. Regarding Trump supporters, the better I understand the perspective and motivations of my political "enemy," the more difficult it becomes to dismiss such people as misguided, "voting against their own interests," being "low-information voters," and other stereotypes and caricatures often employed by liberals. Of course, the Right has its own caricatures of those on the left. On both sides, these cartoonish views do nothing but reinforce tribal boundaries, which is not a good thing.

I agree.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I haven't gotten to comment yet since Tuesday but Trump's win proved to me I wasn't taking crazy pills. I live in Michigan and have for several years, I'm also NYC girl born and raised, almost everyone I know in real life voted for Trump. Many of those same people voted for Obama or haven't voted in a long time.


And I could go on and on.... but he won... I don't have to anymore... but the world is not gonna end over it...I'm so glad it's over.

Super heIpful post, I am sorry I could only like it once.

On the worlds not gonna to end over it.
I highly recommend everybody watched this Glen Beck video, that was linked earlier and Jolene brought to my attention.

I'm sure it is the only time I've ever recommended somebody watch Glen Beck.

We really got to get over this destructive habit of thinking that if someone has opinions that we find super offensive, that makes the person evil, stupid, nuts, dangerous.
If Joe believes that two gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married, that doesn't make him evil, it may or may not make him homophobic, it just makes him a supporter of traditional marriage. Likewise, if Sue believes that woman should be allowed to have any abortion at any time, that doesn't make her an unrepentant baby killer, just pro-choice.

Now that doesn't mean that all opinions are ok, and we should be accepting of everything. Somebody, who believes that Jews are sub-humans and be sent to the gas chamber. That person should be challenged, shunned, and ya probably unfollowed and unfriended.

The vast majority of Americans are good people,with good intentions and good hearts. Right now 1/2 of us are team red and 1/2 team blue. (And some of us are in no mans land). In a perfect world we'd all be open to listening respectfully to the others, that ain't happening anytime soon. But can we at least agree that folks on the other team, are just wrong, and ignorant, and not evil and awful.

 

[Osmia]

I haven't gotten to comment yet since Tuesday but Trump's win proved to me I wasn't taking crazy pills. I live in Michigan and have for several years, I'm also NYC girl born and raised, almost everyone I know in real life voted for Trump. Many of those same people voted for Obama or haven't voted in a long time.

I mean... I get that he won the bulk of the midwest states... no one really expected him to win NY and California... but like.... I'm not going to lie I'm bored of the whole "trump supporters being sad poor white people that need to be heard..."

Cause...the bulk of the trump voters I know personally are well educated, and/or tradesmen, not all white, mostly employed or business owners, most people I know who work "blue collar" jobs and city union jobs make a whole lot more money and often live more comfortably than people I know who work office "white collar" jobs. So I still feel like I'm in the twilight zone sometimes about the stereotypical trump voter... I'm not saying people who fit that bill didn't vote for Trump too... but I think part of peoples' problem grasping the win is they think these are the only people that did and that's the only reasons why and they need to "understand them better". (besides racism/sexism etc of course!)

Here's an example of my alternate universe where people are happy about Trump...Wednesday morning my local gas station/convenient store owner (middle eastern american legal immigrant) "Woo he did it! Trump won!" at like 8am... local middle aged black woman regular: "I know! I voted for him too I didn't want to say anything!" everyone in the gas station all smiles and happy.

I never expected Trump to win NY... but...let's look at some of the counties that went red in ny. Staten Island is NYC smallest borough/county (each borough of NYC is its own county) at half a million people... coincidentally the average home on staten island is also half a million dollars... these people mostly voted for trump, they're not exactly hurting for jobs, they live in nyc. But they are predominantly Italian and Puerto Rican so I'll give you the white people/maybe catholic conservative thing there.

Eastern Long Island... also extremely wealthy... voted for Trump.... most of Upstate NY voted for Trump...

The other thing is he won... but there are still many instances of voter fraud worth being looked into. He actually could have actually won by a larger margin. But it happens every election.

There's rumored to be a bunch of fraud here in Michigan(you know the state that just finally confirmed a trump flip yesterday)... a friend witnessed some attempts first hand...
I wouldn't doubt for a second there was voter fraud in the Bronx... (a county which went 88% for Clinton and has a rep for voter fraud in other political races) manhattan was around 67% clinton. The bronx likely also has more illegal citizens than any other NYC borough. I think there will be legal changes regarding this issue in time for the next election.

... I also have lots of former military peers and they voted for trump... And I sit next to my boyfriend, (trump train) who has a degree from pretty much the top school in his smarty pants field and we have all the eyerolls everytime the media says its the non college educated or these people who have "nothing left to lose" I mean...maybe that's partly true but it's also just people like us who have maybe a different view of things.

I moved from NY and I don't regret it ever. But I still know people working in Manhattan who voted for Trump and are silently watching everyone having meltdowns about him winning but can't say anything outloud in their artsy fartsy fields. Tell me again who's supposed to be intolerant? For the record I also don't know any real racists or sexists if that's still necessary to mention at this point.

I also have a different perspective on the illegal situation as someone who's been good friends with many people here illegally, I can still be honest and admit, especially in ny, they're not all "working for pennies"... I've known plenty of illegal people who wired $1000's of dollars back home every month (and no, not just mexican)
One of my own friends offered me $10,000 once upon a time for a green card marriage. You don't have that kind of money to buy your citizenship working for pennies.

There's also been an increase in gang crime(ms-13 and the like) in suburban NYC by illegal citizens from central America coming in through Mexico. You can't arrest illegal citizens for crimes, you can only deport, and they can come right back again if you have weak borders, and often do.

Most of Trump's platform were reasonable ideas, that appeal to reasonable americans. Also, yes, a big issue for me with hillary was her war rep. and everything else about her.
And I could go on and on.... but he won... I don't have to anymore... but the world is not gonna end over it...I'm so glad it's over.

I'm giving Trump the benefit of the doubt, not because I suddenly like him, but because it's the right thing to do (for me, anyway). I don't want to be a sore loser and remain angry for years about his winning. It's pointless. As Obama told Trump in the Oval Office, if Trump succeeds, the country succeeds.

Still, it seems like many Trump supporters are overlooking the fact that Congress is controlled by the Republicans, whose agenda only slightly overlaps Trump's (see my earlier post). And, I'd guess that most Trump voters, if they voted for members of Congress or Senate, voted for the Republican candidates. Granted, there wasn't much choice if the opposition party (the Democrats) is regarded as unacceptable.

It's going to be very interesting to watch the power struggles between Trump and the Republican Congress. To be honest, as long as Trump doesn't pull any authoritarian moves or sow division like he did in the campaign, I'm hoping that Trump prevails over the Congressional Republicans and is able to enact at least the most important parts of his agenda. And Trump supporters should hold his feet to the fire to make sure he doesn't engage in excessive deal-making and compromise with Congressional Republicans.

 

[Mila_]

This is a pretty great video, and makes a lot of sense. I feel quite bad for the dems who wanted Bernie so badly but got stuck with Clinton, who, as I've been saying from the beginning, has no actual, true supporters. It's not surprising at all that she lost to me, especially with her war record. (this post isn't directed towards you Paige, btw, just a response to the video itself and other musings on it)


I, like most of the people in my echo-chamber, totally freaked out when he got elected. It's really upsetting to see someone with such a bad image, particularly when it comes to sexual assault, be hired as America's leader by people we thought we could trust (for some reason, lol). I'll admit that I got "triggered" for the first time ever this week seeing it all unfold. But once I got over the effects of PTSD, I realized it's definitely something that needed to happen to wake people the fuck up. It's important to remember that the vast majority of people who elected him aren't super fond of him and his character, and they voted for him in spite of it out of desperation. Liberals have been so invested in the media and safe places and bathroom rights that they stopped paying attention to world issues.

Unpopular opinion: worrying about the legitimacy of your gay marriage, which bathroom you get to use, whether someone offends you or triggers you (which I now totally believe is real, but still!) is privilege when compared to the victims of Hillary's war crimes. And I think for a lot of people, it came down to what's more important: our silly first-world problems, or the threat of war. And yeah, there's a big racial divide going on here. Conservatives have been taught to be just as afraid of black people as black people are of getting shot for eating a candy bar. And the far right racist assholes who have always been there, that we've always known have been there, hailing Trump as their white Aryan hero definitely didn't help matters. Because he totally is a shitty racist. But now you've got liberals calling all Trump supporters racists when in reality a lot of them are concerned about the people getting killed by our current status quo government in other countries and, like everybody else in this crazy election, went for the least-scary option, and the only one who promised real change in a long time.

It's crazy that we even view Hillary as liberal. We know she's not and none of you wanted her and you still don't want her. Nobody wants Trump for sure, but nobody wanted her either. I think a lot of liberals feel cheated by their party, and rightfully so. I'm seeing a lot of misguided anger, but everyone needs to open their eyes and look around.

Here's another video that I quite enjoyed. It's got some issues, but it might give some food for thought. And if anyone is angry and scared, realize that's the proper response to any oppressive government, be it liberal or conservative.

You asked me to engage your post, so this will be my best attempt at explaining the reason for my disdain.

From what I could gather your post is an attempt at explaining why 60 million people voted for Trump in the election and your explanation revolves around 2 main points:

1) Nobody likes Trump:

It's important to remember that the vast majority of people who elected him aren't super fond of him and his character, and they voted for him in spite of it out of desperation.

Nobody wants Trump for sure

Crowds like these hadn't been seen for a candidate in a very long time. People don't do 15 hour lines for a candidate they are voting out of desperation. And candidates nobody wants don't create a massive movement.



When faced with such an incredible defeat it is tempting to minimize the winning party, to think that they aren't really your adversaries, just people with the same values and ideas as you who happened to vote for the other guy simply because they were desperate.

This brings us to the second point you made which is divide the Trump team into 2 distinct groups:

2) Those who don't like Trump but voted for him, and those who voted for Trump because RACISM!

You call Trump a shitty racist, so naturally anyone who likes him and his policies must be a racist as well. Unless they voted for him reluctantly.

for a lot of people, it came down to what's more important: our silly first-world problems, or the threat of war.

And yeah, there's a big racial divide going on here. Conservatives have been taught to be just as afraid of black people as black people are of getting shot for eating a candy bar. And the far right racist assholes who have always been there, that we've always known have been there, hailing Trump as their white Aryan hero definitely didn't help matters. Because he totally is a shitty racist.

This is something hard to convey to progressives in general, but there are true legitimate reasons to support Trump that have nothing to do with the leftist buzzword of the week. While some Trump voters might have voted for him reluctantly, or because they hate Hillary Clinton, there is a very important segment who voted for Trump because they respect him and believe in his project. Since we lack data, let's assume it is a neat 50-50 distribution. Would your really say that half of Trump supporters are racist? Progressives always pose as open minded but I swear I haven't met a more uptight group since I graduated from my catholic university.

And now, as the cherry on top, let's discuss what you consider to be the reasons why someone would vote for Trump reluctantly, the reasons you think someone chose Trump even though "nobody wanted him".

3) Those who chose to vote for Trump reluctantly did it to avoid war or because they care about the death toll of the US abroad (lol)

Avoiding war:

And I think for a lot of people, it came down to what's more important: our silly first-world problems, or the threat of war.

It is true that Hillary was rallying pretty hard against Russia and wanted to declare a no-fly zone in Syria even though Russia already has presence there so the military had to tell her that if she wanted to do those things she would have to eventually go to war against Russia, something she seemed to like considering how she kept blaming Russia for her crimes and the disaster of her campaign. But I would say the big chunk of the voters wasn't even aware of the war angle, and those who were didn't take it seriously enough to impact their choice of a candidate.

Death toll abroad (wut?)

But now you've got liberals calling all Trump supporters racists when in reality a lot of them are concerned about the people getting killed by our current status quo government in other countries

I would say with great certainty that the death toll of the US abroad is of no concern to the majority of Trump voters. Bernie voters? Sure. Trump? no. Trump supporters don't have the same worldview as progressives where the most important thing is to do good to people in far away continents. Trump supporters are patriots. They care about their nation first and foremost. They are against war efforts abroad because of the loss of american lives. They don't want the US to keep sending their sons to pointless wars fought in the interests of the donors. The Iraqi or Afghan victims are not something to take into account for the vast majority of Trump supporters.

Now, I can do the opposite exercise: why would someone vote for Bernie? Why would someone vote for Hillary? What would you call me if I came here to say that Bernie voters fit neatly into 2 groups: those who supported him reluctantly out of desperation OR communist opportunists who only want free shit and therefore supported him enthusiastically? What would you say if I came here to say that every Hillary supporter voted for her either because they were against Trump or because they were radical feminists who only cared about someone with a pussy in the White House? Surely you would consider me to be short sighted and simple minded because there are legitimate reasons to support Bernie and Hillary Clinton other than the cartoon I just wrote about here.

 

[VeronicaChaos]

You asked me to engage your post, so this will be my best attempt at explaining the reason for my disdain.

From what I could gather your post is an attempt at explaining why 60 million people voted for Trump in the election and your explanation revolves around 2 main points:

1) Nobody likes Trump:





Crowds like these hadn't been seen for a candidate in a very long time. People don't do 15 hour lines for a candidate they are voting out of desperation. And candidates nobody wants don't create a massive movement.

View attachment 66896 View attachment 66897 View attachment 66898 View attachment 66899 View attachment 66900

When faced with such an incredible defeat it is tempting to minimize the winning party, to think that they aren't really your adversaries, just people with the same values and ideas as you who happened to vote for the other guy simply because they were desperate.

This brings us to the second point you made which is divide the Trump team into 2 distinct groups:

2) Those who don't like Trump but voted for him, and those who voted for Trump because RACISM!

You call Trump a shitty racist, so naturally anyone who likes him and his policies must be a racist as well. Unless they voted for him reluctantly.





This is something hard to convey to progressives in general, but there are true legitimate reasons to support Trump that have nothing to do with the leftist buzzword of the week. While some Trump voters might have voted for him reluctantly, or because they hate Hillary Clinton, there is a very important segment who voted for Trump because they respect him and believe in his project. Since we lack data, let's assume it is a neat 50-50 distribution. Would your really say that half of Trump supporters are racist? Progressives always pose as open minded but I swear I haven't met a more uptight group since I graduated from my catholic university.

And now, as the cherry on top, let's discuss what you consider to be the reasons why someone would vote for Trump reluctantly, the reasons you think someone chose Trump even though "nobody wanted him".

3) Those who chose to vote for Trump reluctantly did it to avoid war or because they care about the death toll of the US abroad (lol)

Avoiding war:



It is true that Hillary was rallying pretty hard against Russia and wanted to declare a no-fly zone in Syria even though Russia already has presence there so the military had to tell her that if she wanted to do those things she would have to eventually go to war against Russia, something she seemed to like considering how she kept blaming Russia for her crimes and the disaster of her campaign. But I would say the big chunk of the voters wasn't even aware of the war angle, and those who were didn't take it seriously enough to impact their choice of a candidate.

Death toll abroad (wut?)



I would say with great certainty that the death toll of the US abroad is of no concern to the majority of Trump voters. Bernie voters? Sure. Trump? no. Trump supporters don't have the same worldview as progressives where the most important thing is to do good to people in far away continents. Trump supporters are patriots. They care about their nation first and foremost. They are against war efforts abroad because of the loss of american lives. They don't want the US to keep sending their sons to pointless wars fought in the interests of the donors. The Iraqi or Afghan victims are not something to take into account for the vast majority of Trump supporters.

Now, I can do the opposite exercise: why would someone vote for Bernie? Why would someone vote for Hillary? What would you call me if I came here to say that Bernie voters fit neatly into 2 groups: those who supported him reluctantly out of desperation OR communist opportunists who only want free shit and therefore supported him enthusiastically? What would you say if I came here to say that every Hillary supporter voted for her either because they were against Trump or because they were radical feminists who only cared about someone with a pussy in the White House? Surely you would consider me to be short sighted and simple minded because there are legitimate reasons to support Bernie and Hillary Clinton other than the cartoon I just wrote about here.

These are wonderful points; thank you for posing them. I'll admit of being in an echo-chamber of liberals, and my experience of talking to Trump voters has been far and away fear of war and taxes of Libertarian friends, so they will vary from conservative voters. It was unfair to say conservative media is teaching people to be deathly afraid of black people, but I do think both sides of the media are stirring up unfounded fears. Note: I don't think you have to be a racist to vote for one, particularly if the other option is a war-hawk. I admit completely that liberal media has demonized him especially in this area. Also, I don't think being racist makes somebody a monster. I think a lot of people learn prejudices and have yet to overcome them. A family member of mine started saying some seriously racist things the same time she started supporting Trump, so I think it's not entirely the liberal media to blame. They just blew it up way out of proportion. A lot of people have experiences like that and I don't think my family member is a bad person; just ignorant on this matter.

I'm glad to meet and talk with Trump supporters who are not at all racist, and don't believe he is either. Racism is a funny thing and nobody can quite agree on what makes something/somebody racist. I hope the left will be comforted by learning that not half the county hates brown people. But I hope the right is critical about their own ideas of racism instead of being fully defensive, because there are definitely conservatives who have helped create this image and republicans should be blaming them as much as they are the liberal media. Although I'm learning that a lot of them are, which is cool.

I don't think it's super short-sighted to say those things about Hillary or Bernie supporters. It is stereotyping, but there is some truth to it which is why I've never supported them. There's also a bit of truth to calling Libertarians idealist anachists, lol. But yes, these are all cartoonish depictions that ignore any nuance or understanding. Anybody looks insane in charicatures.

You may be right about the war perspective. I just had a conversation with my sister who voted for him who was afraid of war on US soil. We both agreed that war, whether it's here or there, is not a good option, and regardless will cost too many Americans their lives.

In regards to reluctant voters: I think Trump does have a strong supportive fan base, but I think he won due to being the lesser of two evils. I think if only the super pro-Trump people voted for him he would have lost; it was them combined with reluctant voters afraid of high taxes and war. It'd be hard to study, maybe, to get to the truth of this, but it's interesting to think about nonetheless. 50/50 might be optimistic but could be true, who knows. To be fair, I think most Hillary supporters were even more reluctant. She was winning "victories" while Trump was starting a movement.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Super heIpful post, I am sorry I could only like it once.

On the worlds not gonna to end over it.
I highly recommend everybody watched this Glen Beck video, that was linked earlier and Jolene brought to my attention.

I'm sure it is the only time I've ever recommended somebody watch Glen Beck.

We really got to get over this destructive habit of thinking that if someone has opinions that we find super offensive, that makes the person evil, stupid, nuts, dangerous.
If Joe believes that two gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married, that doesn't make him evil, it may or may not make him homophobic, it just makes him a supporter of traditional marriage. Likewise, if Sue believes that woman should be allowed to have any abortion at any time, that doesn't make her an unrepentant baby killer, just pro-choice.

Now that doesn't mean that all opinions are ok, and we should be accepting of everything. Somebody, who believes that Jews are sub-humans and be sent to the gas chamber. That person should be challenged, shunned, and ya probably unfollowed and unfriended.

The vast majority of Americans are good people,with good intentions and good hearts. Right now 1/2 of us are team red and 1/2 team blue. (And some of us are in no mans land). In a perfect world we'd all be open to listening respectfully to the others, that ain't happening anytime soon. But can we at least agree that folks on the other team, are just wrong, and ignorant, and not evil and awful.

I think it's hard sometimes to remember that not all people believe their personal morals must be forced on others. Which is really the whole basis behind liberty, right? We all struggle with this but if someone is against gay marriage that doesn't have to mean they want to take that freedom away from others.
And if someone is in support gay marriage that doesn't mean they want to force churches to perform same sex ceremonies.

I never thought in a million years I would be applauding Glenn Beck but his message really touched me. I'm prepared to move forward from here hopeful but ready to stand up against any action that I see as unconstitutional and cheer when he does things I appreciate.
I'm grateful for Trumps comment on marriage equality and will hold him to that.
I'm disappointed in his choice of Steve Bannon at a time that we desperately need some reassurance and hope, unity and above all else stability. It was a stupid move on his part, possibly one of the worst real actions he could have done at this time.

... in my opinion of course. That doesn't mean anyone has to agree, but a little understanding wouldn't hurt and I'll do my best to return the favor .

 

[Bocefish]

The violence and vandalism, at least here, was not done by the anti-trump protesters. They were being peaceful, when the anarchists showed up and went crazy. No reason for Hillary, Obama, or even Trump to apologize for those shitheads.

Apologize for them?

Hell no!

I was hoping for someone in a leadership position to denounce the violence/vandalism and thought it would be more effective coming from Obama or HRC herself. Obama did come out saying something about it today, for whatever good it will do now.