Who are you voting for?

[Mila_]

They just released the second video on the Voter Fraud saga and it is just terrible.



SCOTT FOVAL: We did it to them when we were in charge too

JOURNALIST: What did we do?

SCOTT FOVAL: We did the exact same thing. Only, we manipulated the vote with money and action, not with laws. It is a very easy thing for Republicans to say “well, they’re bussing people in” Well, you know what? We have been bussing people in to deal with you fucking assholes for fifty years and we’re not going to stop now, we’re just going to find a different way to do it. So, I mean, I grew up with that idea. They used to bus people out to Iowa. If we needed people out there, we’d bus people out to Iowa. When I do this, I think as an investigator first.

JOURNALIST: Yeah, work backwards, yes, that’s great.

SCOTT FOVAL: I used to do the investigations, a different… method. I think backwards from how they would prosecute if they could, and then try to build out the method to avoid that. They could invalidate… well, ok, let’s just say in theory if a major investigation came up, of major vote fraud that way, how would they prove it? And who would they charge? Are they going to charge each individual of voter fraud? Or are they going to go after the facilitator for conspiracy which they could prove? It’s one thing if all these people drive up in their personal cars. If there’s a bus involved? That changes the dynamic. It’s the legality because you can prove conspiracy if there is a bus. If there are cars it’s much harder to prove.

JOURNALIST: and there is enough money..

SCOTT FOVAL: If there’s enough money, you have people drive their POVs (personally owned vehicles) or you have them drive rentals.

JOURNALIST: Yeah. With Wisconsin license plates. Absolutely.

SCOTT FOVAL: Well, you can’t have them with Wisconsin license plates because rentals here… most of them don’t have Wisconsin license plates. But, there’s this thing called Used Car Auction. Used Car Auction, the titles belong to some unknown company, their company cars.

JOURNALIST: And you know these are multiple “employers”, these are not all one “employer”

SCOTT FOVAL: so you use shell companies. Cars come from one company, they paychecks come from another, there is no bus involved, so you can’t prove that it’s en masse, so it doesn’t tip people off.

JOURNALIST: there you go, there you go, yes. So you are saying shell companies, you’re saying…

SCOTT FOVAL: If the car has a Wisconsin license plate and it’s owned by a third entity then it’s much harder to prove that these people drove in from out of state. There’s no bus involved so you can’t prove conspiracy.

JOURNALIST: And they would have to be looking for them in the first place.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

(ahem)
http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/18/project-veritas-election-videos/

Gerrymandering. Millions and millions of fake voters. Hacked voting machines.
This is just terrible.
Oooo I am so mad I could throw a rock!

 

[Osmia]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...f1e49a-94dd-11e6-9cae-2a3574e296a6_story.html

Julian Assange's Internet access at the Ecuadorean Embassy in London has been "temporarily" cut off by Ecuador:

A foreign ministry statement said that while it stands by its decision in 2012 to grant Assange asylum, it doesn’t interfere in foreign elections. Leftist President Rafael Correa’s government said it was acting on its own and not ceding to foreign pressures.

The ministry didn’t specify the extent of the restrictions on Assange’s access to the internet, saying only that the limitations wouldn’t affect WikiLeaks’ ability to carry out its journalistic activities.

 

[Mila_]

Well... Bob Creamer, top Hillary Clinton advisor just resigned from Hillary's campaign today after the hidden camera paid instigators and fraud voters videos were released:

Robert Creamer -- husband of Illinois Rep. Jan Schakowsky -- announced his resignation in a statement after conservative activist James O'Keefe released a video under his organization Project Veritas Action, which showed Creamer and other operatives purportedly discussing methods for inciting violence at rallies for the Republican nominee.

Creamer was helping the Democratic National Committee with Clinton's campaign while working for Democracy Partners, a progressive consulting group. He is also the head of a group called Mobilize, which contracted with the DNC.

"I am unwilling to become a distraction to the important task of electing Hilary Clinton, and defeating Donald Trump in the upcoming election," Creamer said in a statement. "As a result I have indicated to the Democratic National Committee that I am stepping back from my responsibilities working with the campaign."

He confirmed that he was referring to the Clinton campaign, with which he was "fully integrated."
Creamer added that "contrary to the outrageous claims of the notorious right wing blogger James O'Keefe, we have always adhered to the highest standards of transparency and legality in our work for the DNC."

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/18/p...s-action-robert-creamer-donald-trump-rallies/

 

[justjoinedtopost]

https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/19/the-perils-of-polling-in-a-brexit-and-donald-trump-world/

My informal neighborhood polling continues.

Talked to a white male, very anti-Trump, yet seemed hesitant to admit considering Clinton as an option. Talked to a white female, who admitted she was voting for Trump for "change", and the look on her face was downright apologetic.

Also talked to a black female who called herself an independent; we agreed on Clinton being crooked, but when I expressed my disgust that the only option was a very crooked businessman, she looked surprised. Turns out she held to the view that Trump is a very good businessman with a stellar record.

These are minimum wage workers in a historically red state who say they are definitely going to vote.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Spoiler: Graphic discussion of Trump grabbing duckservatives by the pussy

 

[Kokoro]

Tonight was the first night I watched a debate. I was avoiding them because what what I heard it was just grown folk squabbling. That's pretty much was this debate was. I couldn't watch more than an hour before turning it off. Although I was watching the stream Jill Stein was doing where she was answering the debate questions in real time. I agreed with just about everything she says. Although I could never vote for her because of the green parties frightening stance on sex work. It's so frustrating. I'm about to give up and vote for Vermin Supreme.

Just kidding, but kinda not really.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Tonight was the first night I watched a debate. I was avoiding them because what what I heard it was just grown folk squabbling. That's pretty much was this debate was. I couldn't watch more than an hour before turning it off. Although I was watching the stream Jill Stein was doing where she was answering the debate questions in real time. I agreed with just about everything she says. Although I could never vote for her because of the green parties frightening stance on sex work. It's so frustrating. I'm about to give up and vote for Vermin Supreme.

Just kidding, but kinda not really.

Watched first 30 min. Had to turn it off.

 

[Mila_]

Tonight was the first night I watched a debate. I was avoiding them because what what I heard it was just grown folk squabbling. That's pretty much was this debate was. I couldn't watch more than an hour before turning it off. Although I was watching the stream Jill Stein was doing where she was answering the debate questions in real time. I agreed with just about everything she says. Although I could never vote for her because of the green parties frightening stance on sex work. It's so frustrating. I'm about to give up and vote for Vermin Supreme.

Just kidding, but kinda not really.

I watched the full thing... it was the first debate where the moderators didn't gang up on Trump. I have no idea who the guy was but he was neutral, objective, stuck to policy and was not a pushover. It was refreshing to see.

The debate itself was more of what we saw in other debates... Questions getting derailed, tons of name calling on both sides, Trump sharking Hillary on her never-ending list of instances of cronyism negligence and foul play, Hillary avoiding answering the questions and flashing her fake autist smile at inappropriate times, Trump losing his focus by the end of the debate and giving the media a soundbite for today with the fact that he refused to say whether or not he would accept the outcome of the election.

This campaign is going on for too long and I am personally getting tired of following it. Maybe because I have watched every debate, interview, legacy media coverage and shit coming out of Wikileaks that I know both candidates very well by now and I don't think people who follow this election cycle are likely to change their minds about who they are going to vote for. I think most of us made up our minds months ago. The only independents left are people who don't care about politics and aren't on the loop.

 

[Osmia]

I watched the full thing... it was the first debate where the moderators didn't gang up on Trump. I have no idea who the guy was but he was neutral, objective, stuck to policy and was not a pushover. It was refreshing to see. . . .

That was Chris Wallace of Fox News, one of the few independent-minded journalists at Fox. He's the son of Mike Wallace, who was himself a legendary journalist for decades (60 minutes, etc.) until his death a few years ago. But, I agree--Chris did a great job.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Both of them look worse with each passing debate. The one thing Trump has been good at in these things is to make Hillary look bad. He also makes himself look bad though. And Hillary has plenty of ammunition to make Trump look even worse, but isn't able to defend herself from Trump's more damning accusations, so just awkwardly smiles. I've never known an election where both candidates have come out of these things with such little credibility.

If I had a vote - and had to vote for one of them - I'd still be voting Hillary, but it's like an inverse of Sophie's Choice at this point, with Hillary looking like a terrible choice and Trump looking like an even worse choice. There are no winners.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Just want to add to the pile of agreeing that Chris Wallace was an EXCELLENT moderator, I wish he would have done them all! I want to hear about both candidates policies and plans darnit, because even if I don't vote for someone they could still become my president and I would like to have a better understanding of their plans in their own words... which was nearly impossible to gather from the first two debates. Hillary laid out stuff pretty well the first one, Trump didn't. neither of them did the second one but this one they both got really good opportunities to inform us and used them pretty ok and I give a lot of credit to Chris Wallace for that. He was super neutral and went after both of them pretty hard.

Hillary deflected a bunch and Trump did his normal, just change the subject all together to something completely and totally not even in the same general idea as the question, routine a few times but over all they both did pretty well... debate standards wise I reckon. it at least appeared to be a debate and not some bizarre Judge Judy episode.

I felt Hillary's passion and fire for the first real time this debate. Roe V. Wade threw some coals in her burner in the beginning and the heat carried on throughout the rest. I cheered for her for the first time this entire election cycle, like actually clapped but I WAS three cocktails into my debate drinks so...

 

[Osmia]

The most shocking thing about Trump in this debate is that he flatly refused to acknowledge that Russia was behind the recent political/election-related cyber-attacks, and he said that he "doubts" the conclusion of US intelligence agencies that Russia was behind the attacks. These are the same intelligence agencies he would be depending on if he were elected. This, along with the many other WTF statements of his, tells me that he has never been in this to actually win. Or, at least, he's conflicted about it.

The transcript is at https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...al-trump-clinton-debate-transcript-annotated/

Here's the pertinent excerpt.

CLINTON: ... that the Russians have engaged in cyberattacks against the United States of America, that you encouraged espionage against our people, that you are willing to spout the Putin line, sign up for his wish list, break up NATO, do whatever he wants to do, and that you continue to get help from him, because he has a very clear favorite in this race.

So I think that this is such an unprecedented situation. We've never had a foreign government trying to interfere in our election. We have 17 -- 17 intelligence agencies, civilian and military, who have all concluded that these espionage attacks, these cyberattacks, come from the highest levels of the Kremlin and they are designed to influence our election. I find that deeply disturbing.

WALLACE: Secretary Clinton...

CLINTON: And I think it's time you take a stand...

TRUMP: She has no idea whether it's Russia, China, or anybody else.

CLINTON: I am not quoting myself.

TRUMP: She has no idea.

CLINTON: I am quoting 17...

TRUMP: Hillary, you have no idea.

CLINTON: ... 17 intelligence -- do you doubt 17 military and civilian...

TRUMP: And our country has no idea.

CLINTON: ... agencies.

TRUMP: Yeah, I doubt it. I doubt it.

CLINTON: Well, he'd rather believe Vladimir Putin than the military and civilian intelligence professionals who are sworn to protect us. I find that just absolutely...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: She doesn't like Putin because Putin has outsmarted her at every step of the way.

 

[Mila_]

Trump flatly refused to acknowledge that Russia was behind the recent political/election-related cyber-attacks, and he said that he "doubts" the conclusion of US intelligence agencies that Russia was behind the attacks.

Well, it isn't just Trump. Half of the electorate doesn't swallow the Russia meme either. Obama and the agencies claiming this was the work of Russia's government haven't offered a shred of proof. It is pretty obvious that all of the government is shilling for Hillary, from the US President (who by the way is campaigning for Hillary on taxpayer's money) all the way to the corrupt FBI who won't prosecute, to the State Department who colluded with her campaign. Why should we assume the intelligence agencies are any different when they haven't offered any proof or Russia's involvement? Especially considering how badly Hillary wants to escalate the conflict with Russia through Syria.

Plus... maybe I am wrong, but to my knowledge it has only been Democratic Party leaders in Congress the ones claiming the intelligence agencies said it was Russia. I haven't seen any actual intelligence agencies claim this.



Sauce: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/22/politics/election-2016-russian-hacking-intelligence-democrats/

 

[Osmia]

Well, it isn't just Trump. Half of the electorate doesn't swallow the Russia meme either. Obama and the agencies claiming this was the work of Russia's government haven't offered a shred of proof. It is pretty obvious that all of the government is shilling for Hillary, from the US President (who by the way is campaigning for Hillary on taxpayer's money) all the way to the corrupt FBI who won't prosecute, to the State Department who colluded with her campaign. Why should we assume the intelligence agencies are any different when they haven't offered any proof or Russia's involvement? Especially considering how badly Hillary wants to escalate the conflict with Russia through Syria.

Plus... maybe I am wrong, but to my knowledge it has only been Democratic Party leaders in Congress the ones claiming the intelligence agencies said it was Russia. I haven't seen any actual intelligence agencies claim this.

View attachment 66256

Sauce: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/22/politics/election-2016-russian-hacking-intelligence-democrats/

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsr...23-joint-dhs-odni-election-security-statement

As for offering proof of this claim, intelligence agencies normally don't publicly divulge their sources and methods. At some point, one has to either trust what the agencies are saying, or not. Trump chooses not to, and does so in the most public way. Taking that position as a major-party nominee for president, and not offering any explanation (suggesting a 400 pound person laying in bed doesn't count as an explanation) is just baffling and is irresponsible..

 

[Mila_]

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsr...23-joint-dhs-odni-election-security-statement

As for offering proof of this claim, intelligence agencies normally don't publicly divulge their sources and methods. At some point, one has to either trust what the agencies are saying, or not. Trump chooses not to, and does so in the most public way. Taking that position as a major-party nominee for president, and not offering any explanation (suggesting a 400 pound person laying in bed doesn't count as an explanation) is just baffling and is irresponsible..

Thanks for the report, I hadn't seen it.

Regarding the trust towards the government... I don't know if you understand the motivation behind these new nationalistic movements including Trump's base... I don't think you are in touch with it from the articles that you have posted on this thread before where someone who is completely disconnected from these realities try to explain the Trump movement to others like themselves, but here is why Trump doesn't trust the Government and why his base outright hates it:

At it's core the nationalistic sentiments sweeping across Europe and the US are about a deep seated distrust towards the ruling elite. Five decades of this globalist bullshit created a terrible crisis that we are just now beginning to understand. Nothing was done with the best interest of the people at heart, it was a ruse, and people can see it now.

The countries that were their rightful patrimony, that were built upon the sweat, blood, and tears of their ancestors were auctioned to the highest bidder. The same countries where their parents and grand parents thrived and where they were supposed to build their destiny are now broken from the policies that the ruling elites adopted without their consent and under false premises.

In Europe the welfare programs they worked all their lives to maintain are now bankrupt and won't be enough to cover the people who are soon to retire and who spent their entire lives contributing to it. The cities that were once safe and clean are now being overrun by gangs from 3rd world immigrants from South America, Africa and the Middle East. The governing class promised these policies would keep them safe and they were a scam. The governing class promised the immigrants would help pay for these benefits and would fill the country with new hope, and instead all they brought was rape, stabbings, terrorist attacks and filth, most of them took all the benefits they could, never contributed and left when the crisis hit. People want to take their countries back and they realize this is impossible to do so long as all the governing apparatus is in the same hands. In order to put an order to this chaos and end the insanity they need to drain the swamp.

The same thing happened to the US minus the Welfare State Crash. But otherwise, the story is the same. The once beautiful country is so divided across racial, sexual, and age planes and fueled by the parties that people hate each other and there is a wave of terrible violence sweeping across the nation. There is a profound disrespect for the authority of the military and the police forces. Washington is rotten from the bottom all the way to the top so the distrust is towards the ruling class including the government, both parties, and the media. The people in these movements do not believe anything the Government says anymore, they have lied too much and faced no consequences for it so after seeing the shit they have pulled during Obama's second term and this election cycle nobody believes a word they say anymore. This has achieved something nobody else did before which is to unite the far left and the far right in the US and Europe with Trump voters lauding Jill Stein and some Bernie Sanders voters joining the Trump ranks. It is much like Greece where the far left is governing with the support of the far right. In Europe post-Brexit I can clearly see a scenario in which the far left and far right vote together for the dissolution of the EU and achieve it. Things are changing pretty fast, folks.

 

[Osmia]

Thanks for the report, I hadn't seen it.

Regarding the trust towards the government... I don't know if you understand the motivation behind these new nationalistic movements including Trump's base... I don't think you are in touch with it from the articles that you have posted on this thread before where someone who is completely disconnected from these realities try to explain the Trump movement to others like themselves, but here is why Trump doesn't trust the Government and why his base outright hates it:

At it's core the nationalistic sentiments sweeping across Europe and the US are about a deep seated distrust towards the ruling elite. Five decades of this globalist bullshit created a terrible crisis that we are just now beginning to understand. Nothing was done with the best interest of the people at heart, it was a ruse, and people can see it now.

The countries that were their rightful patrimony, that were built upon the sweat, blood, and tears of their ancestors were auctioned to the highest bidder. The same countries where their parents and grand parents thrived and where they were supposed to build their destiny are now broken from the policies that the ruling elites adopted without their consent and under false premises.

In Europe the welfare programs they worked all their lives to maintain are now bankrupt and won't be enough to cover the people who are soon to retire and who spent their entire lives contributing to it. The cities that were once safe and clean are now being overrun by gangs from 3rd world immigrants from South America, Africa and the Middle East. The governing class promised these policies would keep them safe and they were a scam. The governing class promised the immigrants would help pay for these benefits and would fill the country with new hope, and instead all they brought was rape, stabbings, terrorist attacks and filth, most of them took all the benefits they could, never contributed and left when the crisis hit. People want to take their countries back and they realize this is impossible to do so long as all the governing apparatus is in the same hands. In order to put an order to this chaos and end the insanity they need to drain the swamp.

The same thing happened to the US minus the Welfare State Crash. But otherwise, the story is the same. The once beautiful country is so divided across racial, sexual, and age planes and fueled by the parties that people hate each other and there is a wave of terrible violence sweeping across the nation. There is a profound disrespect for the authority of the military and the police forces. Washington is rotten from the bottom all the way to the top so the distrust is towards the ruling class including the government, both parties, and the media. The people in these movements do not believe anything the Government says anymore, they have lied too much and faced no consequences for it so after seeing the shit they have pulled during Obama's second term and this election cycle nobody believes a word they say anymore. This has achieved something nobody else did before which is to unite the far left and the far right in the US and Europe with Trump voters lauding Jill Stein and some Bernie Sanders voters joining the Trump ranks. It is much like Greece where the far left is governing with the support of the far right. In Europe post-Brexit I can clearly see a scenario in which the far left and far right vote together for the dissolution of the EU and achieve it. Things are changing pretty fast, folks.

I think I do understand the origins and motivation of the nationalist movements in the US and Europe, at least on an intellectual level (by virtue of my age and other demographic factors, these issues don't directly affect me as much as they affect some others). However, I really do want to better understand these forces so that I can discern what my attitude and response to it should be. In general, I reject nihilism and anarchy, and Trump's candidacy seems to promise both, even if unintentionally.

I will say that Trump's candidacy has made me more aware of the common US/European nationalist rejection of the ruling elite as a real and legitimate phenomenon, driven by common historical and economic forces. One thing I strongly regret about Hillary Clinton is that she hasn't made addressing the US trade-related economic dislocations a central focus of her policy program. She's of an older, elite generation that believes in unregulated globalization. Maybe she'll come around. But I just can't bring myself to support someone like Trump.

I recently read a New Yorker profile of Frauke Petry, the leader of AfD in Germany. Interestingly, like Angela Merkel, she was born in East Germany and has a PhD in chemistry. It would be nice to have someone like that (smart, and a woman) to take the lead on these issues here in the US. Donald Trump has done us a good service bringing these issues to greater awareness, but someone else will have to carry the ball forward.

 

[Protocosmo]

How do you square the peoples' supposed lack of respect for the authority of the military (what authority???) and police force with their lack of respect for the people?

Hate to break it to ya, but this is the USA we're talking about, not turn of the century Germany. We're set up the other way around. There, it was the people in suits who listened to the ones in uniform. Here, the people in uniform listen to the suits.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

How do you square the peoples' supposed lack of respect for the authority of the military (what authority???) and police force with their lack of respect for the people?

Hate to break it to ya, but this is the USA we're talking about, not turn of the century Germany. We're set up the other way around. There, it was the people in suits who listened to the ones in uniform. Here, the people in uniform listen to the suits.

The ones who want rail against the elites, I generally agree with. What they don't tell you is, 9 times out of 10, they want to become your elites.

 

[Mila_]

How do you square the peoples' supposed lack of respect for the authority of the military (what authority???) and police force with their lack of respect for the people?

There is no lack of respect for the people on the part of most of the police and military. The racial tensions in the US are a false narrative fabricated by the mainstream media for political purposes and ratings. Doing a little bit of research reveals that 99% of what they say is a direct lie or a perverse manipulation of the truth.

The ones who want rail against the elites, I generally agree with. What they don't tell you is, 9 times out of 10, they want to become your elites.

Well, there will always be an elite, there has never been an egalitarian system that actually worked so the right question is "who should that elite be?" Some of us would like to see a real aristocracy rise based on merit and noblesse oblige, but that is not a possibility within democracy. At the very least we need to protect the countries we live in from people who auction them off to line their own pockets.

 

[Protocosmo]

There is no lack of respect for the people on the part of most of the police and military. The racial tensions in the US are a false narrative fabricated by the mainstream media for political purposes and ratings. Doing a little bit of research reveals that 99% of what they say is a direct lie or a perverse manipulation of the truth.

Prove it.

 

[Mila_]

Prove it.

You are asking me to write a 1000 pages book on this. Why don't you use google?

 

[Protocosmo]

You are asking me to write a 1000 pages book on this. Why don't you use google?

Where do you get your facts? I'm not doing your work for you.

 

[Mila_]

Where do you get your facts? I'm not doing your work for you.

My work?

 

[Protocosmo]

View attachment 66262

My work?

Then I will casually dismiss your assertions as bullshit.

 

[Mila_]

Then I will casually dismiss your assertions as bullshit.

 

[ACFFAN69]

Well, it isn't just Trump. Half of the electorate doesn't swallow the Russia meme either. Obama and the agencies claiming this was the work of Russia's government haven't offered a shred of proof. It is pretty obvious that all of the government is shilling for Hillary, from the US President (who by the way is campaigning for Hillary on taxpayer's money) all the way to the corrupt FBI who won't prosecute, to the State Department who colluded with her campaign. Why should we assume the intelligence agencies are any different when they haven't offered any proof or Russia's involvement? Especially considering how badly Hillary wants to escalate the conflict with Russia through Syria.

Plus... maybe I am wrong, but to my knowledge it has only been Democratic Party leaders in Congress the ones claiming the intelligence agencies said it was Russia. I haven't seen any actual intelligence agencies claim this.

View attachment 66256

Sauce: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/22/politics/election-2016-russian-hacking-intelligence-democrats/

To be fair, there is evidence that it was a Russian that hacked the DNC.

For one, there was a word doc file created/edited by someone with the name Феликс Эдмундович, that they found left on the server. That translates to Felix Dzerzhinsky, who was the man in charge of creating Cheka, the Soviet's first secret police. Also metadata shows that errors found in some documents were originally written in cyrillic then later changed to English. What you don't hear is that there are also documents created/editted with names written in Japanese and Spanish.

More incriminating, there was malware found on the DNC server that has historically been linked to a Russian C&C server. This was also found in a Berlin hack which was attributed to APT 28 - Fancy Bear (Russia's secret service FSB). Fancy bear created a site similar to MISdepartment, but with a spelling error. MISdepartment is the firm that the DNC used to run their computer network. This sites domain links to a known Fancy Bear IP address, which also has links to the Berlin hack. They also found malware with code reused in other hacks (specifically HAMMERTOSS malware) by APT 29 - Cozy Bear (Russia's secret service KGB). Neither group appeared to know the other had access.

I don't think there is question that Russia had access to the DNC servers, the evidence seems to be clear they did, but that doesn't prove that it was Russia that released the hack. Could not other people have had access as well? Could it not have been internally done *even though* Russia had access? It seems sloppy for Russia to leave so many incriminating clues, if they were going to release it, and why would they want the World to know it was them? Wouldn't that be counter-productive and only give fuel for Hillary?

 

[Mila_]

To be fair, there is evidence that it was a Russian that hacked the DNC.

For one, there was a word doc file created/edited by someone with the name Феликс Эдмундович, that they found left on the server. That translates to Felix Dzerzhinsky, who was the man in charge of creating Cheka, the Soviet's first secret police. Also metadata shows that errors found in some documents were originally written in cyrillic then later changed to English. What you don't hear is that there are also documents created/editted with names written in Japanese and Spanish.

More incriminating, there was malware found on the DNC server that has historically been linked to a Russian C&C server. This was also found in a Berlin hack which was attributed to APT 28 - Fancy Bear (Russia's secret service FSB). Fancy bear created a site similar to MISdepartment, but with a spelling error. MISdepartment is the firm that the DNC used to run their computer network. This sites domain links to a known Fancy Bear IP address, which also has links to the Berlin hack. They also found malware with code reused in other hacks (specifically HAMMERTOSS malware) by APT 29 - Cozy Bear (Russia's secret service KGB). Neither group appeared to know the other had access.

I don't think there is question that Russia had access to the DNC servers, the evidence seems to be clear they did, but that doesn't prove that it was Russia that released the hack. Could not other people have had access as well? Could it not have been internally done *even though* Russia had access? It seems sloppy for Russia to leave so many incriminating clues, if they were going to release it, and why would they want the World to know it was them? Wouldn't that be counter-productive and only give fuel for Hillary?

Great post, thank you! may I ask for the sauce?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

To be fair, there is evidence that it was a Russian that hacked the DNC.

I don't think there is question that Russia had access to the DNC servers, the evidence seems to be clear they did, but that doesn't prove that it was Russia that released the hack. Could not other people have had access as well? Could it not have been internally done *even though* Russia had access? It seems sloppy for Russia to leave so many incriminating clues, if they were going to release it, and why would they want the World to know it was them? Wouldn't that be counter-productive and only give fuel for Hillary?

To say I have been suspicious of this whole deal is an understatement.

 

[ACFFAN69]

Great post, thank you! may I ask for the sauce?

A good one is:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/all-signs-point-to-russia-being-behind-the-dnc-hack

Arguments pro-Russian hack I left out include:
- The FireEye's findings that used timing evidence: The hackers apparently were accessing the system during Russian hours (UTC+3) and followed Russian holidays.
- The argument that Guccifer doesn't speak Romanian fluently.

The reason I excluded the timing argument was because because Guccifer2.0, the person attributed to the hack says he is Romanian. Romania is UTC+3 (duh!), so that seems flimsy to me. I left the Romanian fluency argument out because I have no idea how "fluent" he was, not speaking the language.

Edit: Also keep in mind the IP addresses could be spoofed and the files found could have been placed on the server previous to the leak, to point the finger at Russian involvement by an incredibly brilliant intruder, but the problem with that is Guccifer2.0 has been adamant about the leak not being Russian hackers, so why would he have tried to on one hand incriminate them and another be adamant they didn't do it, assuming he was the only intruder.